Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Gonf 05-06-07, 04:04 PM	I'm going to play in an all Drow campaign. Each of us is playing a Drow noble that is adventuring is the Underdark. I'm a little puzzled on how to play a drow; )aside from a TWF CG Rng with 2 scimitars) ;) I have a general idea of the basic personality and culture of the Drow, but I don't know how to deal with the 120' darkvision. This range limit is pretty huge, most spells can go farther that 120' and drow archers aren't that great either; too much cover in caves. This leaves melee; but I dislike fighters and my DM abhors The Book of 9 Swords. :weep: This is basically my situation; so if anyone can give me information on what classes and tactics Drow favor (beyond what's in the MM) I would appreciate it. I'm planning on going to the CO boards once I have a general idea of what to play. Sadly I probably wont find out what the other players are using until I get to the game; I don't know anyone aside from the DM and I can't reach him at the moment; so I can't use that to pick a class or style. I think that's everything; thanks in advance.
Jaxgaret 05-06-07, 04:07 PM	How big is your adventuring party? What's the composition of the rest of the party? What level are you starting at?
Nat_20 05-06-07, 04:12 PM	Maybe reading the Dark Elf trilogy might help, thats where alot of the drow history come from, but i'll try and help. Drow archers dont use longbows rather they use crossbows and hand crossbows with a poison that knocks people out, drow clerics may only be female, and wizards male, many drow males are fighter types and rogues, many drow use two weapon fighting, some are even psionic classes, i personally have played a Drow ranger (but not the way you are thinking) i made the charactor very good at sneacking and hiding in the underdark and was skilled at tracking gnomes (deep gnomes are one of the drow most hated enemy's) and used the drow knock out poison ALOT with his light crossbow, so underground rangers work to...
Nat_20 05-06-07, 04:14 PM	What level are you starting at? Yeah, underdark adventures are not for low levels characters Edit: sorry about the double post
Gonf 05-06-07, 04:14 PM	I believe that there are 3-4 other players; I've never met them before though. I have no idea what they will play; sadly I wont know until the game; my DM is swamped with other stuff and can't discuss the game ATM :weep: Anyway, the game is first level for me. The others might be level 2 now but I'm going to be level 1. Edit: I have read the Dark Elf Trilogy, it's a great way to get a feel for the Drow; thanks for the tip. While I do understand the basics of drow fighting my main issue is how they deal with the 120' DV limit, it seems that you'd almost be on top of your enemy before you'd spot them. I think many blasting spells would encompass a good portion of the visible map... but I could be wrong.
Jaxgaret 05-06-07, 04:17 PM	This range limit is pretty huge, most spells can go farther that 120' and drow archers aren't that great either; too much cover in caves. This leaves melee; but I dislike fighters and my DM abhors The Book of 9 Swords. :weep: Sounds like you want to play a melee Rogue. You can take levels in Assassin later on, because of your Evil alignment. That meshes very well with the Drow's poison affinity.
Gonf 05-06-07, 04:20 PM	Oooh, death attack is shiny... That's a good idea, thanks for the tips people. Any more insights would be appreciated.
Nat_20 05-06-07, 04:24 PM	The way of playing a drow is different than a human or an elf, moving around has to be sneaky, and 120' is ALOT compared to other races, but anyway, you will have to make alot of listen checks and have max ranks in it is possible and move silently, many things in the underdark can see as plain as day, so you will have to sneak up on them to get an advantage
Argaud 05-06-07, 04:26 PM	Drow aren't good at anything. As primary spellcasters they suffer of an LA+2, which kinda kills any advantage that nice +2 to int and cha would have given them. As warriors the -2 to con is pretty bad, and they got nothing useful for their LA but the SR, which won't save them from an orc axe. Basically they have a number of small advantages that do not mesh well with each other, and a decent SR that helps them little outside purely magical threats. Somehow all that minor stuff ends up costing them two full levels, which makes drow pretty crappy when compared with... anything else. Even kobolds have a better deal. Their favored classes are primary casters, and the females don't get anything that support their cleric favored. Makes me wonder why the clerics of Loth are so feared when they get such a raw deal. At least the drow wizards are smarter than... I dunno, goblin wizards. As a cleric a goblin is obviously better than a drow. My personal advice: play a rogues or rogue-like classes. They sure can use the bonus to dex, int and cha and the magic defense. It is thematic because drow are supposed to be sneaky and stealthy. The 120' dark vision makes them superior scouts underground, too.
Nat_20 05-06-07, 04:27 PM	Also a warlock with Devils Sight invocation would be AWESOME, seeing in magical darkness plus casting darkness as a racial ability is cool
Garonak 05-06-07, 04:30 PM	Why not be a CG Drow Ranger dual-wielding scimitars and a panther as animal companion. That's a fresh new idea.
fiendish_platypus 05-06-07, 04:35 PM	Why not be a CG Drow Ranger dual-wielding scimitars and a panther as animal companion. That's a fresh new idea. It's not an animal companion, it's a wondrous figurine thingy magig, jeeze, don't you know anything? Just kidding, I hate that drow so much.
ericSHINRA 05-06-07, 04:47 PM	I've only ever had one Drow PC in my campaigns. He was a Rogue who used the Bonus Feat variant which gave up Sneak Attack dice in favor of Fighter Bonus Feats. Drow Ninja would be an interesting concept, as would Drow Scouts and/or Swashbucklers.
Gonf 05-06-07, 04:48 PM	So, general consensus: Drow rogue good, Drow wizard bad. :P Well thanks everyone. and now: To the CO Boards team!!! :D
JLaurHughes 05-06-07, 04:53 PM	Notwithstanding, use the SLA's to advantage, no one can see through magical darkness without True seeing or similar effect. Use the Faerie fire to outline enemies before you target them. If you're going to play a rogue, darkness also helps cover your movement...especially in the many hiding places a person can find in the underdark...shallow caves, false turns, and the like are a Drow Rogue or even a Drow Fighter's friend. Cover yourself in the darkness when you're hiding. It's a tactic that all drow, regardless of class or nobility, use to a great advantage. Manly the LA is from those SLA's(CL = Class level and can be augmented) and the SR(11+class level, starts at 12 at first and increases). The racial stats are in addition to what an elf gets. Even if the fighter isn't a great choice, it's still decent enough with the right selection of feats, and feats the class does get. Basically play a wizard, rogue or Fighter if you're a male drow and Cleric, fighter, or rogue when female. Use the drow spell-like abilities and choose feats that will augment your drow best.
fiendish_platypus 05-06-07, 04:54 PM	I think the Ninja variants (especially the earth one) from April's dragon would make a cool drow character.
Jaxgaret 05-06-07, 05:19 PM	So, general consensus: Drow rogue good, Drow wizard bad. :P Well thanks everyone. and now: To the CO Boards team!!! :D Drow Wizards aren't bad, particularly because your entire party consists of Drow, so you're not really losing much of anything compared to your partymates if you play a Wizard.
Gonf 05-06-07, 05:22 PM	We're playing a more traditional Drow campaign, no ninja :D Thanks for the SLA tips JLaurHughes, I'll be sure to remember that. Oh, and I've posted an Optimization request on the CO boards under Optimizing a Drow Rogue (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=842409) So please stop by. Thanks again everyone, I'll be checking back in a bit.
BugHunter 05-06-07, 06:13 PM	Since this is a drow campaign I would suggest getting the Drow of the Underdark source book. I've been looking at it, there is enough fluff explaining the society and culture along with the crunchy bits of new feats, spells, equipment and the like.
leion_darkcloud 05-08-07, 04:00 AM	well,first of all hallo everyone,i think that drows are a good race to low lvls, but as it siad before they have minus xp which means less advantages as their class grows up and the rest of the party members grows up.Personally i have a drow nale wizard and i had a really good tine with cause of the extra int and the racial abilities which have helped me in bad situations(like a wizard i had low hp).
Ghostwheel 05-08-07, 04:19 AM	Drow Ranger, archery-style. Forget about those Drow hand-crossbows and get yourself the best composite longbow that you can afford. Perhaps mix in two levels of Rogue (Evasion rocks at the lower levels, and never stops helping) and consider Horizon Walker later in your career. Your Will saves will stink, but you will be able to hide/surprise/ambush a lot of opponents. Good luck! :cool:
Zardnaar 05-08-07, 08:41 AM	Play a Bard r Rogue seem to be your best options or see if you can ditch the SR and be LA +1. Drow Sleep poison= don't bother unless you can get it for free. At 75gp/dose and with a crappy DC 13 or 14 fort save its unreliable at best. Have a few doses to shoot a wizard with however. At that price spend your money on cure lt wound potions at your local friendly Temple of Lolth. Also use range to your advantage. Remember with your 120 ft dark vision ambush ambush ambush. Hopefuly your target will only have 60 darkvsion or even at 120 thats minus 11 or 12 on a spot roll. Use hit and run tactics if thats an option. I lept my PCs on their toes with a 3 day skirmish battle through the underdark once vs the same group of Drow,
Sephiroth Do'Urden 05-08-07, 09:29 AM	You can also play as a Warlock. They would benefit greatly from the stat bonuses drow get. Besides, constan Spider climb is very useful in the Underdark and if you build a Warlock right, they can become very powerful... Good luck!
Aminvelos 05-08-07, 09:47 AM	Caster Wizard5/Sorc1/Ultimate Magus10 from the complete mage. You can choose from there Melee Paladin of Slaughter3/16 Monk -4 ac to opponents really helps the monk hit, and you'll be capitalizing on monk saves, and a second coat of spell resistance.
leion_darkcloud 05-08-07, 09:53 AM	hi all again!First i should apologise myself cause of the bad english in my previous published "opinion".So i write again cause I m going to run a group of drow 4-5 (the fifth member is not sure, and so maybe i kill his char in the campain just for atmosphere) and even if I have enough information about drows i would really like to hear some extra opinions about a good cenario.I would really prefer to be hard one cause they are drow (two of them noble) and 12-13 lvl. By the way ,something that i didn't refer to previously, i would like to suggest players not to copy Drizzt's character style.I know its a nice character and very temptative but still not all can be "good","two-scimitar sword style", "with a panter figurine" drow. What i mean is that drows can be excellent other classes, dont be afraid of using other possibilities and combinations!I dont want to offend anyone , i m just "suggesting"! thx for ur time reading this guys, and plz ANY CENARIO OPINIONS for my campain are welcome.
Gonf 05-08-07, 01:00 PM	But... but.... the whole group was going to be Emo Chaotic Good Dual Scimitar Rangers with Panther Figurines of Wonderous power... :rolleyes: Anyway, thanks for the tips, I'm thinking about playing a psionic character. What I didn't think of was the fact that everyone is going to be a drow, so ECL doesn't really matter. :D Still, I totally agree about the use of Drow poison, I'll be saving a vial or two for those annoying spell-casters with low Fort. :P
Dead_Weasel 05-08-07, 05:20 PM	Beguiler5/Assassin5/Swiftblade10, perhaps? Very cramped casting, so it might not be the best option for you, but it's got lots of tasty bits and an interesting feel.
BugHunter 05-08-07, 07:51 PM	There are new poisons listed in Drow of the Underdark that have DCs in the 20's. Plus lots of other crunchy bits for an underdark setting including new spells, feats, PrC's.
Gonf 05-09-07, 07:28 PM	Sadly I don't have access to the Duskblade or swiftblade, so those are out... However I have been looking at playing a Psion of some sort, I'm thinking either a seer, shaper or kinetisist.
Jaxgaret 05-09-07, 09:51 PM	However I have been looking at playing a Psion of some sort, I'm thinking either a seer, shaper or kinetisist. Good ideas all. Also, there is the Lurk (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cwc/20061003), from CPsi. You could run with the original idea and do a Lurk/Assassin.
Gonf 05-10-07, 01:23 AM	Waaahh, I keep seeing new books that I need to buy... :weep: Sadly, I don't have to ComPsi, so that's not an option.
Tusalu 05-10-07, 01:36 AM	What about spellthief?
monai75 05-10-07, 01:43 AM	I would go with a beguiler. They have several uses and very high skill points at every level. The range of spells is limited, but the skills make up for it. It is basically like playing a rogue without the sneak attack, that can cast spontaneous spells like a sorcerer. The only down side will be creatures or enemies with spell resistance to enchantment spells. Beguilers rely heavily on them along with illusion spells. But the skills you will have at 1st level will make you the primary rogue if there is no other rogue type class in the party. On the flip-side you may end up being the primary arcane caster if there is no sorcerer or wizard in the party. All and all I would go with a beguiler. If you can make it through the lower levels, it will really pay off around the time you take care of the level adjustments.
Gonf 05-10-07, 01:45 AM	The Beguiler sounds awesome, but again; I lack the book it's in. :( The Spellthief on the other hand I've seen, but I'm not fond of it.
leion_darkcloud 05-10-07, 03:54 AM	i could suggest you to play maybe a soulknife!You can say that its a lost son from House of Oblondra(since they had psio powers) and that u got escaped from the final attack,which destroy ur house, but even like that u do not dare to acuse the other houses for the attack because they would rather kill you than let justice shine(dont forget that Baerne were ok with Oblondra destruction)and now u work for Bergan Derthe!Anyway that was a suggestion only!its actually one of my drows in my campaing but i have no problem to share it and give u guys ideas.....:)enjoy
Dead_Weasel 05-10-07, 04:27 AM	Most people don't have the book Swiftblade is in because it's not in one; all hail the intarwubs (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070327).
Steely_Dan 05-10-07, 06:50 AM	-Bard -Beguiler -Erudite -Hexblade -Paladin -Psion -Rogue -Sorcerer -Warlock -Wizard
tetebetson 05-10-07, 01:33 PM	try a monk or a psion i think u will be pleasantly suprised at the out-come
The_Shaman 05-10-07, 02:53 PM	It might be a bit weird, but drow make - imo - quite decent swashbucklers. Free finesse and adding your intelligence to your damage is good enough, and from there you can continue with rogue and eventually PrCs (to avoid the XP penalty). The Daring outlaw feat can make it a bit more rewarding, I think - just try not to spawn a wave of Jarlaxle clones instead of Drizzt clones. Speaking of which, drow rangers can also be quite decent in their own way (sniping, for example), and there are some PrCs (i.e. Dark Hunter) that give you a really insane darkvision range. CAdv has some nifty ranger and assassin spells in that regard. Aside from that, drow bards - if extremely rare, as most books I've seen would imply - can be quite decent. Bards have more to them than casting, so the LA isn't that bad... and the "evil manipulative bard" archetype can mesh in veeeery well with the drow psyche. I've been wondering about drow wilders, but psionics doesn't scale well with LA imo (the PP reserve is very punishing towards lost levels, since most powers require extra PP and a higher manifester level to get all the benefits caster level provides for spells).
Mindolin 05-10-07, 04:50 PM	Despite the fact that it states that there are no male drow clerics, at least of Lolth, there are. Rai-Guy of Bregan Daerthe is one example, so it's more a tradition that there are no male clerics. Now, for your class, Rogue is good, and wizard can work. However, if you want to play an angst ridden drow, you don't even have to get the scimitars. Just go with Wilder. Then you get a bonus, what with the Wilder class. Main problem is the same as with any other caster, but the Practiced Manifester feat works pretty well, since it technically works with improving power points as well.
Gonf 05-11-07, 04:02 AM	Most people don't have the book Swiftblade is in because it's not in one; all hail the intarwubs (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070327). Sheesh, I didn't even bother doing a search, I'm too used to internet failing me :( Man, now I'm torn; do I thank you for alerting me to this class, or go 'Hulk Smash' for your sarcasm... Edit: I just checked the link, my poor eyes, so many lost caster levels... :weep: CURSE YOU DEAD WEASEL!!!!
Roivas 05-11-07, 04:28 AM	Go with barbarian/wizard then hit up rage mage. Or go the old ninja/battle dancer/duelist route adding your Dex, Int, Wis, and Cha to AC is always funny. I personally would advise not to try monk since the whole lawfulness would make you butt heads with the other drow more often than you would think. Also a mediocere BA is going to make reliably hitting anything even harder with a LA. I actually doubt there is particular class a drow is made to be, strange.
Gonf 05-12-07, 01:11 AM	Well folks, I finally got to talk to my DM again, I have to go core only for my base class. :( Ah well, at least I found out what's in the party; 1 enchanter, 1 ranger, and something else that I can't remember... Anyway, they need a skill-monkey; so I'm going Rogue and then Night-Song Infiltrator...
The_Shaman 05-12-07, 07:25 AM	Aww, no drow bards? Anyway, good luck... I'm more partial to the NS enforcer, but the infiltrator can be quite nice to you, too.
Leukrythus 05-12-07, 10:45 AM	How about a Fighter or a Rogue, or a Priestess (Cleric), Wizard or Sorcerer? If you want to make your character "unique", do it the old fashioned way... by role playing.
Nat_20 05-12-07, 02:13 PM	Since your all Drow in the game, the level adjustment won't be a problem wehn it comes to caster level and junk, it makes a difference when you are adventuring with none level adjustment characters... AND WHY SO THEY HAVE TO HAVE A SYSTEM LIKE THIS!!!!!!! Drow are suppose to be more powerful than the base races... but with the level adjustment they are weaker... Less hit points, Base Attack Bonus, Caster Level, , and less max ranks in skills... the supposed balancing factor makes them get the short end of the stick... anyone else agree????
Gonf 05-12-07, 05:21 PM	1. Shaman: I'm not going to play a Bard for a couple of reasons, the first is because of their focus on sonic based abilities; too loud for a sneak, the second is their lack of trap-finding, the third is that I've never been fond of bards to begin with. :D As for the Enforcer vs. Infiltrator; I'm going Infiltrator so I can help my allies sneak and scout (like a bard), rather then using the excellent combat support abilities of the Enforcer; the enchanter tends to put the enemy to sleep anyway. 2. Leukrythus: I'm afraid I don't understand what you mean. I'm planning on portraying him in an interesting fashion and I have to use core... but why should I not try to make my character unique in his paper based abilities as well as his personality, tactics and mannerisms? 3. Nat_20, I totally agree that the ECL system is far from perfect but I'd rather not go into that discussion here, it all too quickly degrades into a debate on fixes.
Nat_20 05-12-07, 06:08 PM	yeah, true that, but were was I, Have your party members decided what classes they will be yet?
Gonf 05-12-07, 07:22 PM	Looks like we have: 1 Enchanter; who loves using sleep and coup de graces. 1 Ranger, I don't know his combat style. 1 Sneak/skill-monkey (me) 1 Monk or Wizard (not sure yet) 1 NPC cleric 1 other person who might play (class unknown) There was another newbie player who was the skillmonkey that died after missing 3 DC 11 traps that collapsed the tunnel he was in.