Great apes as PC races [Archive] - Wizards Community

Great apes as PC races [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
tantric
04-03-08, 10:48 PM Has anyone ever statted the great apes as PC races? Assuming they can talk. I think a campaign with chimps (both types), gorillas, gibbons, orangs and maybe yeti as the PC races would be interesting...Personally, I'd be an orang sorceror.
Captain_Kobold
04-04-08, 03:00 AM You would require an Awaken spell to turn a Great Ape into a PC to give the intelligence and speech ability. Such a character would have difficulty using weapons and other tools in general, but it could be an interesting concept.

Are the great apes actually statted individually anywhere, or are they pretty much all simply lumped under a single statblock in a monster manual?
Cherubaddon
04-04-08, 03:10 AM Great apes per se are not statted out as races anywhere, although, being animals without a whole lot of special abilities, I suspect that statting them out wouldn't be too difficult. However, there is the Hadozee race in Stormwrack that is just that: a flying ape as a player race. He can use weapons, is literate, etc. but is basically still an ape. But yes, I agree it would be awesome to play a monkey campaign... actually, I might go for a gorilla frenzied berserker... or an archer character with weapon focus (coconut)... or maybe even a chimpanzee druid (wildshaping into a gorilla^^). That is a pretty cool idea indeed.

-Cherubaddon
beepaladin
04-04-08, 09:58 AM I don't think they'd have trouble using weapons, I mean... they have monkey grip ;)
Kursk
04-04-08, 10:10 AM Has anyone ever statted the great apes as PC races? Assuming they can talk. I think a campaign with chimps (both types), gorillas, gibbons, orangs and maybe yeti as the PC races would be interesting...Personally, I'd be an orang sorceror.

If you like playing a character with animal int...
Xiuhcoatl
04-04-08, 11:22 AM Such a character would have difficulty using weapons and other tools in general, but it could be an interesting concept.

An Ape would not have issue using weapons and other tools. In fact - they're known for using tools in the wild in real life.

An Awakened Ape would be able to use the items and equipment (maybe not armor) of a Human without issue.
Kursk
04-04-08, 11:29 AM An Ape would not have issue using weapons and other tools. In fact - they're known for using tools in the wild in real life.

An Awakened Ape would be able to use the items and equipment (maybe not armor) of a Human without issue.

Not really. They use 4 limbs for normal movement from place to place. They would have to stow weapon, move, stop, draw weapon.
tantric
04-04-08, 12:55 PM Assumptions: all have human normal manual dexterity and speech abilities. Yetis, neo-chimps and neo-bonobos walk and stand fully upright, all can walk upright but then usually squat rather than stand, only yetis can run upright. All have INT 10 base. All except yetis and gorillas can brachiate. Yeti = Gigantopithecus sapiens, some offshoot of Australopithecus.

I would use these races to completely replace dwarves, gnomes, orcs and halflings, then make elves more innately magically and unrelated to humans.

Gigantopithecus pic (http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.mhhe.com/socscience/anthropology/image-bank/kottak/chap06/kot37055_0607ta.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.mhhe.com/socscience/anthropology/image-bank/kottak/chap06/image10.htm&h=150&w=102&sz=365&tbnid=SUBFFNz_rJMJ:&tbnh=150&tbnw=102&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dgigantopithecus&hl=en&sa=X&oi=image_result&resnum=1&ct=image&cd=3)
ashmanonar
04-04-08, 01:39 PM I suspect that great apes in a D&D world would only need to be Awakened to cast spells. Almost all primates, in the right conditions, have shown language skills, and appear to be quite intelligent. (Although their speech apparatus is less developed than ours, meaning that apes need to use their hands to speak as coherently as a human. Perhaps a feat could remedy that...)

Apes would start as illiterate, to reflect their lack of conventional speech. (same language buy option as Barbs, but new classes wouldn't give them Literacy; they'd have to buy it with skill points.)

I'd give them a penalty to charisma, because their speech would come out garbled and blurred, but a bonus to a different physical or mental stat for each different great ape species (Wis for orangs, Str for Gorillas, Dex for Chimps, etc.)

A great ape would also have only a 20 foot movement speed when bipedal, but give them an (Ex) ability that allows them to use both hands and feet to go to 40 foot movement speed. They wouldn't be able to carry weapons or anything in their hands while in this movement mode.

I'd probably give all great apes a +2 circumstance bonus to a selection of Dex based and Str based skills (say, Sleight of hand, Climb, Jump, or some combination of these and a few more for each great ape species; they've got nimble hands and feet, which they could probably use interchangeably.)

I suspect I'd give all primate species Imp Grapple, because they're nimble and strong as a whole, and tend to attack things by wrestling when they do not have weapons. I'd probably also give them either a claw/claw/bite Nat attack progression, or Imp Unarmed Strike.

Apes would also have the (Ex) ability to speak using sign language, and communicate with any being that knows sign language. A sense motive check could tell any onlooker that they're speaking, but would not tell what they're actually saying unless they're under the effect of Comp Languages or know the language.

Anyone wanna stat out the "Flung Poo" special attack? I really don't wanna delve into it.
Ecalsneerg
04-04-08, 02:01 PM Has anyone ever statted the great apes as PC races? Assuming they can talk. I think a campaign with chimps (both types), gorillas, gibbons, orangs and maybe yeti as the PC races would be interesting...Personally, I'd be an orang sorceror.
Yeti? Frostburn has 'em, albeit with a heapin' helping of racial HD and LA.
Captain_Kobold
04-04-08, 08:06 PM An Ape would not have issue using weapons and other tools. In fact - they're known for using tools in the wild in real life.

An Awakened Ape would be able to use the items and equipment (maybe not armor) of a Human without issue.

Apes are known for using tools in real life yes. Such tools are awkwardly held in one or two hands and suitable for very crude movements only. They're known for using grass stems and rocks as tools. Not swords, axes and human tools that require their flexible and fully-opposable hands.
Compared to an animal's paws, an apes' hands (and feet) are capable of far more dexterity. Compared to a human's hands and wrists, they are still awkward, crude, and inferior in aspects other than raw grip strength.

Best bet would be Tantric's method of ruling in full manual dexterity, intelligence and language capability. At that point, you may as well adjust their posture as well to a more upright stance. This will give you more "planet of the Apes" than "Tarzan" style characters.
sonofzeal
04-04-08, 10:19 PM Apes are known for using tools in real life yes. Such tools are awkwardly held in one or two hands and suitable for very crude movements only. They're known for using grass stems and rocks as tools. Not swords, axes and human tools that require their flexible and fully-opposable hands.
Last I heard, termite fishing requires excellent fine motor control, and is something humans have generally been unable to do but chimpanzees seem to manage just fine at. The difference between our hand structures is usually overrated, and while a gorilla might have difficulty with a rapier which is controlled with the thumb and first two fingers, he should have no problem with a bastard or greatsword which is controlled with the heel of the hand and the last two fingers. And let's face it, this is D&D where Dwarves and Elves can trade armor and still fit just fine. I don't see a reason to apply any sort of penalty like that.
Xiuhcoatl
04-06-08, 07:48 AM They're known for using grass stems and rocks as tools. Not swords, axes and human tools that require their flexible and fully-opposable hands.

That would be, in D&D, a result of their having Int 2. Give them Int 10, and you'd be surprised by what you'd see.
Jaxgaret
04-06-08, 02:09 PM Savage Species has the Anthropomorphic Ape, Anthropomorphic Baboon, and Anthropomorphic Monkey.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
tantric 04-03-08, 10:48 PM	Has anyone ever statted the great apes as PC races? Assuming they can talk. I think a campaign with chimps (both types), gorillas, gibbons, orangs and maybe yeti as the PC races would be interesting...Personally, I'd be an orang sorceror.
Captain_Kobold 04-04-08, 03:00 AM	You would require an Awaken spell to turn a Great Ape into a PC to give the intelligence and speech ability. Such a character would have difficulty using weapons and other tools in general, but it could be an interesting concept. Are the great apes actually statted individually anywhere, or are they pretty much all simply lumped under a single statblock in a monster manual?
Cherubaddon 04-04-08, 03:10 AM	Great apes per se are not statted out as races anywhere, although, being animals without a whole lot of special abilities, I suspect that statting them out wouldn't be too difficult. However, there is the Hadozee race in Stormwrack that is just that: a flying ape as a player race. He can use weapons, is literate, etc. but is basically still an ape. But yes, I agree it would be awesome to play a monkey campaign... actually, I might go for a gorilla frenzied berserker... or an archer character with weapon focus (coconut)... or maybe even a chimpanzee druid (wildshaping into a gorilla^^). That is a pretty cool idea indeed. -Cherubaddon
beepaladin 04-04-08, 09:58 AM	I don't think they'd have trouble using weapons, I mean... they have monkey grip ;)
Kursk 04-04-08, 10:10 AM	Has anyone ever statted the great apes as PC races? Assuming they can talk. I think a campaign with chimps (both types), gorillas, gibbons, orangs and maybe yeti as the PC races would be interesting...Personally, I'd be an orang sorceror. If you like playing a character with animal int...
Xiuhcoatl 04-04-08, 11:22 AM	Such a character would have difficulty using weapons and other tools in general, but it could be an interesting concept. An Ape would not have issue using weapons and other tools. In fact - they're known for using tools in the wild in real life. An Awakened Ape would be able to use the items and equipment (maybe not armor) of a Human without issue.
Kursk 04-04-08, 11:29 AM	An Ape would not have issue using weapons and other tools. In fact - they're known for using tools in the wild in real life. An Awakened Ape would be able to use the items and equipment (maybe not armor) of a Human without issue. Not really. They use 4 limbs for normal movement from place to place. They would have to stow weapon, move, stop, draw weapon.
tantric 04-04-08, 12:55 PM	Assumptions: all have human normal manual dexterity and speech abilities. Yetis, neo-chimps and neo-bonobos walk and stand fully upright, all can walk upright but then usually squat rather than stand, only yetis can run upright. All have INT 10 base. All except yetis and gorillas can brachiate. Yeti = Gigantopithecus sapiens, some offshoot of Australopithecus. I would use these races to completely replace dwarves, gnomes, orcs and halflings, then make elves more innately magically and unrelated to humans. Gigantopithecus pic (http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.mhhe.com/socscience/anthropology/image-bank/kottak/chap06/kot37055_0607ta.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.mhhe.com/socscience/anthropology/image-bank/kottak/chap06/image10.htm&h=150&w=102&sz=365&tbnid=SUBFFNz_rJMJ:&tbnh=150&tbnw=102&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dgigantopithecus&hl=en&sa=X&oi=image_result&resnum=1&ct=image&cd=3)
ashmanonar 04-04-08, 01:39 PM	I suspect that great apes in a D&D world would only need to be Awakened to cast spells. Almost all primates, in the right conditions, have shown language skills, and appear to be quite intelligent. (Although their speech apparatus is less developed than ours, meaning that apes need to use their hands to speak as coherently as a human. Perhaps a feat could remedy that...) Apes would start as illiterate, to reflect their lack of conventional speech. (same language buy option as Barbs, but new classes wouldn't give them Literacy; they'd have to buy it with skill points.) I'd give them a penalty to charisma, because their speech would come out garbled and blurred, but a bonus to a different physical or mental stat for each different great ape species (Wis for orangs, Str for Gorillas, Dex for Chimps, etc.) A great ape would also have only a 20 foot movement speed when bipedal, but give them an (Ex) ability that allows them to use both hands and feet to go to 40 foot movement speed. They wouldn't be able to carry weapons or anything in their hands while in this movement mode. I'd probably give all great apes a +2 circumstance bonus to a selection of Dex based and Str based skills (say, Sleight of hand, Climb, Jump, or some combination of these and a few more for each great ape species; they've got nimble hands and feet, which they could probably use interchangeably.) I suspect I'd give all primate species Imp Grapple, because they're nimble and strong as a whole, and tend to attack things by wrestling when they do not have weapons. I'd probably also give them either a claw/claw/bite Nat attack progression, or Imp Unarmed Strike. Apes would also have the (Ex) ability to speak using sign language, and communicate with any being that knows sign language. A sense motive check could tell any onlooker that they're speaking, but would not tell what they're actually saying unless they're under the effect of Comp Languages or know the language. Anyone wanna stat out the "Flung Poo" special attack? I really don't wanna delve into it.
Ecalsneerg 04-04-08, 02:01 PM	Has anyone ever statted the great apes as PC races? Assuming they can talk. I think a campaign with chimps (both types), gorillas, gibbons, orangs and maybe yeti as the PC races would be interesting...Personally, I'd be an orang sorceror. Yeti? Frostburn has 'em, albeit with a heapin' helping of racial HD and LA.
Captain_Kobold 04-04-08, 08:06 PM	An Ape would not have issue using weapons and other tools. In fact - they're known for using tools in the wild in real life. An Awakened Ape would be able to use the items and equipment (maybe not armor) of a Human without issue. Apes are known for using tools in real life yes. Such tools are awkwardly held in one or two hands and suitable for very crude movements only. They're known for using grass stems and rocks as tools. Not swords, axes and human tools that require their flexible and fully-opposable hands. Compared to an animal's paws, an apes' hands (and feet) are capable of far more dexterity. Compared to a human's hands and wrists, they are still awkward, crude, and inferior in aspects other than raw grip strength. Best bet would be Tantric's method of ruling in full manual dexterity, intelligence and language capability. At that point, you may as well adjust their posture as well to a more upright stance. This will give you more "planet of the Apes" than "Tarzan" style characters.
sonofzeal 04-04-08, 10:19 PM	Apes are known for using tools in real life yes. Such tools are awkwardly held in one or two hands and suitable for very crude movements only. They're known for using grass stems and rocks as tools. Not swords, axes and human tools that require their flexible and fully-opposable hands. Last I heard, termite fishing requires excellent fine motor control, and is something humans have generally been unable to do but chimpanzees seem to manage just fine at. The difference between our hand structures is usually overrated, and while a gorilla might have difficulty with a rapier which is controlled with the thumb and first two fingers, he should have no problem with a bastard or greatsword which is controlled with the heel of the hand and the last two fingers. And let's face it, this is D&D where Dwarves and Elves can trade armor and still fit just fine. I don't see a reason to apply any sort of penalty like that.
Xiuhcoatl 04-06-08, 07:48 AM	They're known for using grass stems and rocks as tools. Not swords, axes and human tools that require their flexible and fully-opposable hands. That would be, in D&D, a result of their having Int 2. Give them Int 10, and you'd be surprised by what you'd see.
Jaxgaret 04-06-08, 02:09 PM	Savage Species has the Anthropomorphic Ape, Anthropomorphic Baboon, and Anthropomorphic Monkey.