| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
|---|---|
| Nat_2005-15-07, 11:13 PM | Is it just me, or are grey elves a little bit to good for a 0 Lvl Adj race? In some applications it doesn't shine to well, but it is a huge boost for any wizard... And what about sorcerers and warlocks and druids and clerics? I can not think of and base race that gives a +2 to Cha nor Wis... Why not???? |
| runestar05-15-07, 11:59 PM | The con penalty is a real turnoff. If it is a racial +2int I want, I would go deep imaskari(+2int, -2dex) or lesser tiefling instead. And what about sorcerers and warlocks and druids and clerics? I can not think of and base race that gives a +2 to Cha nor Wis... Why not???? They are there. You just need to look harder... Lesser assimar gives +2wis at LA+0. Jermlaine(MM2) and anthropomorphic bat(SS) gives +6 wis at LA+0 as well, but have some drawbacks. As for cha bonuses, there is the lesser assimar, star elf(UE) and dragonscale?(races of dragon). Venerable dragonwrought kobold gives +3 to all mental stats, so it is good for any caster.:) |
| ElberethSilverleaf05-16-07, 02:01 AM | Star Elf. +2CH, -2CN |
| Leukrythus05-16-07, 08:18 AM | I don't know if anyone has cataloged all the elven races yet, but it seems that there are a near infinite amount that would require purchasing a thousand dollars worth of tomes from the local gaming store. What we have done was to allow players to create their own type of elf, picking features from a Chinese menu type list. Pick either Dexterity, Intelligence or Charisma as a +2. Pick either Strength, Constitution or Wisdom as a -2. Describe the appearance of the race (skin & eye color, other features), and other cultural, climatic and geographic preferences. Pick a melee weapon and a ranged weapon for a racial preference, and it should fit with the above info. |
| AMGriffin05-16-07, 02:30 PM | The Grey elf is NOT broken, it's good as a wizard, yes. Much in the same way a dwarf is good as a fighter, or a halfling as a rogue. They kinda suck at most other clases however. I figure they may be pretty handy as rogues though. |
| Nat_2005-16-07, 02:39 PM | The Grey elf is NOT broken, it's good as a wizard, yes. Much in the same way a dwarf is good as a fighter, or a halfling as a rogue. They kinda suck at most other clases however. I figure they may be pretty handy as rogues though. And im not denying this, but druids and sorcerers and war-mages and clerics... They would like a word with you... Grey elves also make great duelists and swashbucklers... |
| AMGriffin05-16-07, 02:43 PM | ...? Wait, what? Are you saying that grey elves are good in all of those vocations? I have to disagree. Their Con and Str penalties inhibit their capabilities in any of those roles. Druids and Clerics? They don't even have wisdom bonuses. Same goes for sorcerers, they have no charisma bonus... |
| Nat_2005-16-07, 02:48 PM | ...? Wait, what? Are you saying that grey elves are good in all of those vocations? I have to disagree. Their Con and Str penalties inhibit their capabilities in any of those roles. Druids and Clerics? They don't even have wisdom bonuses. Same goes for sorcerers, they have no charisma bonus... NO NO NO NO... ohh my, i didn't specify... Im saying why does the wizard get special treatment with a race like this, when those other classes get nothing, i mean there isnt a good base race that gives a good Wis or Cha mod... I just want a grey elf but instead of Int, either Cha or Wis... understand? |
| RobbyPants05-16-07, 02:58 PM | Im saying why does the wizard get special treatment with a race like this, when those other classes get nothing, i mean there isnt a good base race that gives a good Wis or Cha mod... I just want a grey elf but instead of Int, either Cha or Wis... understand? Both runestar and ElberethSilverleaf posted some good alternatives, all LA +0. As for the first comment in the OP, I wouldn't consider them overpowered. Shoe-horned, maybe, but not overpowered. You pay for that +2 Int, and it's really not all that powerful... |
| DarkRhystar05-16-07, 03:22 PM | There's a flavor of Elf for every occasion if you look hard enough. :) |
| AZNsupermarket05-16-07, 09:17 PM | Is it just me, or are grey elves a little bit to good for a 0 Lvl Adj race? In some applications it doesn't shine to well, but it is a huge boost for any wizard... And what about sorcerers and warlocks and druids and clerics? I can not think of and base race that gives a +2 to Cha nor Wis... Why not???? Maybe you're not looking hard enough... Here are all your choices from WOTC published material for +0 LA races that get a bonus to intelligence: Gray Elf: -2 Str +2 Dex -2 Con +2 Int, medium, 30 ft., wizard, humanoid (elf), monster manual pg.104 Sun Elf: +2 Int -2 Con, medium, 30 ft., wizard, humanoid (elf), forgotten realms pg.15 Silvanesti: +2 Dex +2 Int -2 Con -2 Cha, medium, 30 ft., humanoid (elf), dragonlance campaign setting pg.20 Fire Elf: +2 Dex +2 Int -2 Con -2 Cha, medium, 30 ft., wizard, humanoid (elf), unearthed arcana pg.17 Deep Imaskari: +2 Int -2 Dex, medium, 30 ft., spell clutch (su), wizard, humanoid (human), underdark pg.9 Tinker Gnome: +2 Dex +2 Int -2 Str -2 Wis, small, 20 ft., special, dragonlance campaign setting pg.27 Lesser Air Genasi: +2 Dex +2 Int -2 Wis -2 Cha, medium, 30 ft., levitate (sp), fighter, humanoid (planetouched), player’s guide to faerun pg.191 Lesser Fire Genasi: +2 Int -2 Cha, medium, 30 ft., control flames (sp), fighter, humanoid (planetouched), player’s guide to faerun pg.191 Lesser Tiefling: +2 Int +2 Dex -2 Cha, medium, 30 ft., darkness (sp), rogue, humanoid (planetouched), player’s guide to faerun pg.191 Vanara: -2 Str +2 Int +2 Wis, medium, 30 ft. climb 20 ft., spirit shaman, humanoid (vanara), oriental adventures pg.15 – Note: in a 3.5 oriental adventures update found in Dragon magazine, vanara were updated to no longer have any ability score adjustments. Venerable Dragonwrought Kobold: -4 Str +2 Dex -2 Con +3 Int +3 Wis +3 Cha, small, 30 ft., sorcerer, dragon (kobold, reptilian, dragonblood), monter manual pg.161 and races of the dragon pg. 39 You can also add the Dragonborn of Bahamut pseudo-template without level adjustment to any of the races with a bonus to int (beside the venerable dragonwrought kobold) and gain +2 con -2 dex, which stacks with your original ability adjustments. That may be helpful for a lot of these (especially for races like fire elves and gray elves). Dragonborn: +2 Con -2 Dex, same as base creature, same as base creature, fighter and the base creatures, humanoid (dragonblood, same as base creature), races of the dragon pg.5 Other than that, you can just increase your age level and suffer the physical ability score penalties. Here are all your choices from WOTC published material for +0 LA races that get a bonus to wisdom: Anthropomorphic Bat: -4 Str +6 Wis -2 Cha, small, 5 ft. (fly 20 ft. average), blindsense (ex), druid, monstrous humanoid, savage species pg.215 Anthropomorphic Lizard: -4 Str +2 Dex +4 Wis -4 Cha, small, 20 ft., druid, monstrous humanoid, savage species pg.215 Anthropomorphic Monkey: -4 Str +2 Dex +4Wis -2 Cha, small, 30 ft., druid, monstrous humanoid, savage species pg.215 Anthropomorphic Rat: -4 Str +2 Dex +4 Wis -4 Cha, small, 15 ft., rogue, monstrous humanoid, savage species pg.215 Anthropomorphic Raven: -6 Str +2 Dex +4 Wis -4 Cha, small, 10 ft. (fly 30ft. poor), rogue, monstrous humanoid, savage species pg.215 Anthropomorphic Toad: -4 Str -2 Dex +6 Wis -2 Cha, small, 5 ft., cleric, monstrous humanoid, savage species pg.215 Anthropomorphic Weasel: -4 Str +2 Dex +4 Wis -4 Cha, small, 20 ft., attach (ex), druid, monstrous humanoid, savage species pg.215 Jermlaine: -6 Str +6 Dex -2 Con -2 Int +6 Wis -6 Cha, tiny, 40 ft., rogue, fey, monster manual 2 pg.131 Buomman: +2 Wis -2 Cha, medium, 30 ft., monk, humanoid (buomman, extraplanar), planar handbook pg.08 "Lesser" Aasimar: +2 Wis +2 Cha, medium, 30 ft., light (sp), paladin, humanoid (planetouched), player’s guide to faerun pg.191 Venerable Dragonwrought Kobold: -4 Str +2 Dex -2 Con +3 Int +3 Wis +3 Cha, small, 30 ft., sorcerer, dragon (kobold, reptilian, dragonblood), monter manual pg.161 and races of the dragon pg. 39 Vanara: -2 Str +2 Int +2 Wis, medium, 30 ft. climb 20 ft., spirit shaman, humanoid (vanara), oriental adventures pg.15 – Note: in a 3.5 oriental adventures update found in Dragon magazine, vanara were updated to no longer have any ability score adjustments. You can also add the Dragonborn of Bahamut pseudo-template without level adjustment to any of the races with a bonus to wis (beside the venerable dragonwrought kobold) and gain +2 con -2 dex, which stacks with your original ablity adjustments. That may be helpful for a lot of these, especially for the Buomman, who would RAW lose their vow of silence when they become a Dragonborn of Bahamut. Dragonborn: +2 Con -2 Dex, same as base creature, same as base creature, fighter and the base creatures, humanoid (dragonblood, same as base creature), races of the dragon pg.5 Other than that, you can just increase your age level and suffer the physical ability score penalties. Here are all your choices from WOTC published material for +0 LA races that get a bonus to charisma: Star Elf: +2 Cha -2 Con, medium, 30 ft., otherworldly touch (su), extraplanar (su), bard, humanoid (elf), unapproachable east pg.10 Spellscale: +2 Cha -2 Con, medium, 30 ft., sorcerer and same as base creature, humanoid (dragonblood), races of the dragon pg.21 Hellbred (Spirit): +2 Cha -2 Con, medium, 30 ft, hellbound (su), spirit (su), paladin, humanoid (hellbred), Fiendish Codex II pg.78 Lesser Aasimar: +2 Wis +2 Cha, medium, 30 ft., light (sp), paladin, humanoid (planetouched), player’s guide to faerun pg.191 Venerable Dragonwrought Kobold: -4 Str +2 Dex -2 Con +3 Int +3 Wis +3 Cha, small, 30 ft., sorcerer, dragon (kobold, reptilian, dragonblood), monter manual pg.161 and races of the dragon pg. 39 You can also add the Dragonborn of Bahamut pseudo-template without level adjustment to any of the races with a bonus to cha (beside the venerable dragonwrought kobold) and gain +2 con -2 dex, which stacks with your original ability adjustments. That may be helpful for a lot of these. Dragonborn: +2 Con -2 Dex, same as base creature, same as base creature, fighter and the base creatures, humanoid (dragonblood, same as base creature), races of the dragon pg.5 Other than that, you can just increase your age level and suffer the physical ability score penalties. |
| ElberethSilverleaf05-17-07, 12:50 AM | Very helpful work AZNsupermarket. I downloaded it and will give it to my players. |
| AZNsupermarket05-17-07, 07:51 AM | Very helpful work AZNsupermarket. I downloaded it and will give it to my players. No problem :cool: -Some of these races are extremely overpowered, use at your own discretion. As a rule of thumb, any creature with either a bonus above +2 to a mental stat or races with a greater net bonus than net penalty shouldn't be used in an actual game. |
| Leukrythus05-17-07, 08:11 AM | There's a flavor of Elf for every occasion if you look hard enough. :) What kind of LA=0 Elf gets a Charisma bonus, to make the Sorcerer flavor? |
| ElberethSilverleaf05-17-07, 08:14 AM | What kind of LA=0 Elf gets a Charisma bonus, to make the Sorcerer flavor? Star elves, +2CH, -2 CN, favored class is bard |
| Ogg05-17-07, 09:46 AM | It's a debate, but after playing it I find a +2 to CON almost as important as a +2 INT as a wizard & would not want to deal with a -2 CON for sure. I've used concentration so much as a wizard & having that extra coule of pluses in it (plus the extra hit points) has saved my little dwarvie skin many a time. I mean an extra spell here or there is nice and having your save DC's up another one or 2 as an added bonus is groovy but dead wizards have no spells :P |
| Leukrythus05-17-07, 01:08 PM | I'd take INT+4 and CON-4 if I could... |
| CantripN05-17-07, 01:17 PM | I'd take INT+4 and CON-4 if I could... And then die from an arrow or Fireball? No thanks. I'd dump any stat for INT, except CON. |
| Leukrythus05-18-07, 09:09 AM | And then die from an arrow or Fireball? No thanks. I'd dump any stat for INT, except CON. Being intelligent, I would avoid getting hit. |
| Ogg05-18-07, 09:28 AM | Being intelligent, I would avoid getting hit. So you'd stay at home & be a sage instead of going out & being an adventurer? I mean it's nice in theory but darn those monsters they tend to go after the source of those fireballs. |
| Leukrythus05-18-07, 01:01 PM | So you'd stay at home & be a sage instead of going out & being an adventurer? That would be the obvious choice, for someone with a low intelligence. The smarter Elf would stay out of harm's way with with a Levitate or Fly type avoidance spell, disguise his position with some sort of Illusion, or have the right Abjuration in place. But if you don't have sufficient Intelligence, then you will need than higher Constitution as you stand there and take the hail of arrows, the charging horde, or your opponents' spells. But if you're going to do that, you might as well play a Fighter. |
| RobbyPants05-18-07, 02:47 PM | I'd take INT+4 and CON-4 if I could... How about -4 Str/+4 Int instead? Taking that big of a hit to Con is never a good idea (unless you plan on becoming a lich :P). |
| Kursk05-18-07, 02:56 PM | There's a flavor of Elf for every occasion if you look hard enough. :) Yes, I like the chocolate covered Keebler elves myself! |
| ChibiQueso05-18-07, 03:49 PM | I'd take INT+4 and CON-4 if I could... And then promptly become a necropolitan? That's what a lot of people would do with that. As huge of a drawback a con penalty is, it just makes joining the ranks of the undead look more appealing. Yes, I like the chocolate covered Keebler elves myself! Mmm, elves. |
| Leukrythus05-18-07, 04:36 PM | How about -4 Str/+4 Int instead? Taking that big of a hit to Con is never a good idea (unless you plan on becoming a lich. As a Wizard, I would trade 4 points of INT for 4 points of any other ability score. In order, I would lose CHA, STR, WIS, CON, DEX. CHA and STR would be my preferences, and generally have the least value to me. I value WIS, CON and DEX much more, but not nearly as much as my INT. |
| Rykiu05-18-07, 04:47 PM | Yes, I like the chocolate covered Keebler elves myself! lol, just lol |
| Erato05-18-07, 07:40 PM | There's a flavor of Elf for every occasion if you look hard enough. :) Yep, there are lots of elves if you look for them in alternative campaign settings (where normal elves don’t exist). I wish more people would take that into consideration before whining about the alleged ‘million elven sub-races’ :( |