Hail Cobra! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Hail Cobra! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
baby_kamikaize_kobold
11-06-07, 07:12 PM Just thought to try to make a snake race at 0LA opinions welcome as is advice.

Cobra-Kin (Naja-ki)
Many years ago the yuan-ti, in a bid for power, created a race designed to serve as scouts and saboteurs in their armies. However the Yuan-ti found that their creations were too smart for their own good and attempted to destroy them. They were able to escape and have since fought the Yuan-ti from behind the scenes.
Physical Description
A cobra-kin stands at about the same height as a human but are usually skinner weighing anywhere from 90lbs to about 140lbs with there being almost no difference in males in females. Their skin ranges in shades of brown and black. Their faces resemble that of a snake with a prominent hood alongside the head. Cobra-kin have tails that drag along the ground and are about 3ft long. A cobra-kin has fangs but they are not usable as weapons. However, what is most interesting about this race is that they appear to be completely dead to psionics and fail to channel the energies use it although they are affected as normal by them. This is most likely caused by the yuan-ti were the cobra-kin ever bold enough to rebel. (Which they were right about obviously)
Personality
Cobra-kin are mysterious creatures with a love of knowledge, especially knowledge that helps their cause against the Yuan-ti. They have a fascination with many forms of magic and will try to learn as much as they can about any field, even psionics, to better combat the yuan-ti. They are extremely devoted in all of their undertakings and will see them through to the finish. Many find their personalities and near fanaticism to be pressing a times but they are a valuable asset and one would be hard pressed to find a truer companion.
Territory
Cobra-kin wander the lands as nomads and never settle in one place for very long. They can also be found in cities were they blend into society. They are found in warmer climates more often but there are tales of clans that live in the northern regions.
Religion
Cobra-kin are not the most pious folk but they can rival the most fanatical priest for zeal if they find a god that matches their outlook. Many worship St. Cuthbert or other deities of justice.
Relations
Cobra-kin have a bitter hatred for the Yuan-ti and oppose them whenever it is prudent to do so. Most other races that have a mistrust for the yuan-ti believe that there is no difference between the two races and treat them with the same hostility.
Alignment
Many cobra-kin run along the neutral end of the spectrum. A truly evil cobra-kin is rare but there are always a few that are more than willing to become the monsters that people portray them as.
Social Structure
Nomadic tribes of cobra-kin live in band of about 15-20 with one child for every three adults. These bands are mostly hunter-gatherers while others conduct raids of yuan-ti caravans for their supplies. Those that live in cities will keep to themselves in group called cells that have about three or four families in them within a district of a city (or a sewer or water drain if they are not welcomed in the city.)
Stats
• +2 int -2 cha: Cobra-kin have a natural talent for intellectual pursuits but their zeal can be a bit off putting for many people.
• 30ft speed
• Size: medium no penalties or benefits from size.
• Poison Spray: A number of times a day equal to a cobra kin's con modifier it can release a spray of poison that blinds a creature similar to a spitting cobra. The range for this is 10ft and it is a ranged touch attack. This blinds a creature for 1d3+1 minutes unless the affected creature takes a full minute to clean the poison out of its eyes. this takes a considerable amount of water (the DM's discretion) to wash out completely. Even after that the affected creature takes a -2 penalty to spot and search checks due to lingering irritation for 1d3 hours.
• Psionically Dead: Due to genetic engineering by the Yuan-ti a cobra –kin can never channel psionic energy. As such a cobra kin can never take levels in a psionic class, but can still use psionic items
• Build-up: If a cobra-kin isn’t able to extract the poison from its glands for a period of a month then the glands have a chance of rupturing and dealing 1d4+1 constitution damage to the cobra-kin. If a cobra-kin is unable to get the proper tools to extract the poison then they must deal an amount of damage that is equal to one half of their constitution score, this damage must be slashing or piercing. This build-up becomes apparent with a swollen look in the cheeks where the glands are located.
• +2 to heal checks: the breeding of cobra-kin was intended to make a more self-reliant scout and it did, they are very good at saving their own hides.
• +2 to move silently checks. Cobra-kin are naturally stealthy.
• Low-light vision: a cobra-kin can see twice as far as a human in conditions of poor illumination.
• +2 to intimidate. The hood on a cobra kin has the same uses as a standard cobra in that it is used to scare off potential predators.
• +2 to balance checks. The tail on a cobra-kin drags along on the ground and provides stability.
• +2 natural armor bonus
• Languages: cobris bonus languages: common, yuan-ti, elven, dwarven, and gnomish.
• Favored class: Rogue, a multi-classing cobra-kin doesn’t count levels of rogue for the purposes of multi-classing. The pursuit of knowledge intrigues cobra-kin and their alienation from many races makes them natural elements of the criminal underworld.
jradd777
11-06-07, 09:08 PM Alright, I like the concept, I'd love to see more 0 LA serpentine/reptilian races.

Some places look as though you didn't finish your thought completely (namely, under Poison, in racial traits) or aren't totally clearly written (that might just be me misunderstanding, though, see what others say about that).

For harvesting poison, I'd say rather than Heal check, look at making Craft (poison) a racial class skill that this race always has, and use it for harvesting poison or something (also check out complete scoundrel pg. 111, if you can).

Personally, I don't like the Build-up thing as-is, it's weird in my head but I'm sure there are ways to make it work "better," IMO. Of course, better to me, may not be what you want, so I'll withhold some of that for now. Overall, though, I'll say that with a drawback like that, they could stand to get a couple more benefits in my opinion.
Mr_Arcane
11-06-07, 10:24 PM Interesting. This is definatly a good bit of work. The build up feature is definatly different and this shows that you don't need a bite attack to poison something.
KavonRa
11-06-07, 10:28 PM I love the flavor of this race ALOT! Personally i would change a couple of things tho just to add to the fluff and to set them apart from the Yuan-Ti.

As far as i know Yuan-Ti tend to be any shade of green. Why not make cobra-kin take the shades black and brown, like most cobras.

Why not change the whole poison aspect and give them:
Example: Poison Spit (ex)
You must succeed on a ranged touch attack to hit your target. Poison Spit deals 1d4 Acid dmg & blindness for 1 round. You must wait for 1d6 rounds before you can use it again.

Also you might want to consider giving them a +2 bonus on move silently.

just my 2 eurocents.
baby_kamikaize_kobold
11-07-07, 06:25 PM Alright thanks for the input.

@jradd: Yeah sorry about the incomplete sentence my fault for not proof reading. Also on the harvesting its really more of a surgery so I'm going to keep the heal check on it. Finally I'd enjoy a better way to do the build-up but I'd like to keep it rather than scrap it. I think its a nice little flaw to the race.

@Kavon: Maybe I should change the skin color. Also, I'm trying to keep it 0LA so the poison spit might be a bit much. However, I will add the +2 to move silently.

Keep the ideas coming people.
ToastedAmphibian
11-07-07, 10:01 PM The posion ability is pretty useless for an adventurer. You have a 50% chance of doing one point of con damage to a lvl 10 char with a poor fort save, 10con and no bonuses to saving throws, once a week. An at best all youll acomplish if you suceed is 10hp dmg and lower their save by 1. The only way this ability would be useful is in a large Cobra-Kin society. All individuals show up for their weekly milking and the posion gets distributed to the armed forces. Baring the pressence of a powerfull COBRA COMMANDER this just inst helpful, atleast not past level 2 or something.

Id suggest making the number of times they can harvest posion, and the DC for the posion they harvest, be constitution dependent. Let them harvest posion 1+con times per week, and give it a DC of 12+con perhapes? To compensate for the stronger posion, you could remove the posion use ability. They are already immune to the posions secreted by their own race. With such a posion already avialible and abundant, why would they have any racial tendency to be adept at handling posions? The posion tey most often handle isnt posionous to them, so why should they worry about all learning how not to posion themselves?
baby_kamikaize_kobold
11-08-07, 03:37 PM so why should they worry about all learning how not to posion themselves?

Because when your a rogue that secretes its own poison you might want stronger stuff eventually since your own stuff isn't so good. Maybe I should change the poison damage to be based on con modifier. But should the save be modified as the cobra-kin grows in levels?

I forgot to post it in the original so I'll post it here since it might not get noticed if I add it
Psionically Dead
Due to special breeding by their creators cobra-kin are unable to channel psionic energy. as such they can never gain levels in a psionic based class.
jradd777
11-09-07, 02:44 AM @jradd: Yeah sorry about the incomplete sentence my fault for not proof reading. Also on the harvesting its really more of a surgery so I'm going to keep the heal check on it. Finally I'd enjoy a better way to do the build-up but I'd like to keep it rather than scrap it. I think its a nice little flaw to the race.

Yeah, no problem, I figured you just started on something else and forgot to add it.

The heal check thing is your choice, since it's your race, but technically a heal check is more meant just for first-aid-ish heal (equivalent of applying a band-aid to CPR). I figured since real snake venom is harvested much as any other venom/some poisons, it would make better sense to allow it to fit in with all the others, even though it seems like they'd be doing it to themselves. Again though, it's your choice in the end.

Build-up is a nice flaw, it just seems weird to me. Again, related to other poisonous creatures, it's... I don't know a good word to describe exactly what I mean but, all in all, poisonous creatures normally don't need to use their venom in such a way, like blood it only replenishes itself as it's lost, never at a faster rate, which means never risking something like that. It really seems like too harsh a flaw for the minimal strengths that they have but it could be reworked to make more sense, in my mind. If others think it's great though, I suppose you could just completely disregard my opinion.
baby_kamikaize_kobold
11-09-07, 10:36 PM well in all logic this isn't a naturally occurring race even in a fantasy world since they were created by another race. I just tried to make it seem as if the Yuan-ti haven't quite mastered the art of racial experimentation so they have some flaws that reflect it. But I see were your argument comes from it really makes no biological sense but oh well.
riftdragon
11-09-07, 10:43 PM Very interesting. Is their main military force run by Cobra commander if so be careful around GI Joe.

All jokes aside. This race seems viable though i personaly dislike the removal of psionic based classes, but its a personal choice.

Good Race.
jradd777
11-09-07, 10:51 PM well in all logic this isn't a naturally occurring race even in a fantasy world since they were created by another race. I just tried to make it seem as if the Yuan-ti haven't quite mastered the art of racial experimentation so they have some flaws that reflect it. But I see were your argument comes from it really makes no biological sense but oh well.

Based on that reasoning... I'd say you might be going the right direction with the concept of build-up, after all. Make sure to give the method by which the poison can be delivered that is useful for a player planning to use it (e.g. contact, injury, etc.). I assume you mean it to be injury only and in which case maybe just reword your statement saying that they can't use a bite to deliver it. Such as, "This is an injury type poison that cannot be delivered via a bite due to the lack of proper dental/oral construction."
Grizzled Gryphon
11-10-07, 03:13 AM Regarding the poison being based on the con of the character, I too think that is a good idea. Otherwise, it is pretty useless. Unless that is another flaw of the race due to the Yuan-ti messing up. If so, then you might want to give this race a little something extra, as that is two flaws without anything to really balance it. All in all, it seems slightly underpowered compared to other races.
jradd777
11-10-07, 06:01 AM Regarding the poison being based on the con of the character, I too think that is a good idea. Otherwise, it is pretty useless. Unless that is another flaw of the race due to the Yuan-ti messing up. If so, then you might want to give this race a little something extra, as that is two flaws without anything to really balance it. All in all, it seems slightly underpowered compared to other races.

Yeah, this is what I was getting at in the beginning. There are other LA 0 races that get poison use (no drawbacks) and probably anywhere from 4 - 7 other decent traits.
baby_kamikaize_kobold
11-11-07, 07:34 PM Personally I'd rather have it underpowered than overpowered. I just thought this race sound interesting. but if you think they need any more abilities do you have any suggestions.
jradd777
11-11-07, 08:29 PM Personally I'd rather have it underpowered than overpowered. I just thought this race sound interesting. but if you think they need any more abilities do you have any suggestions.

I know what you mean. I hate having to defend something against a volley of "BROKEN!" and it seems like you kind of want them to have that ill-wanted offspring flavor, rather than as a dominant, powerful race. But I'd say Nat Armor makes sense for them... I'll edit this later with more ideas.

If you can get a look at Serpent Kingdoms (FR book) checkout the feats in there for some ideas.
riftdragon
11-11-07, 08:59 PM Perhaps a racial bonus to heal checks?
taradusis
11-11-07, 09:29 PM How do they compare to the Anthropomorphic viper races found in savage species?I usually remove the legs and give this sort of race a climb speed.A hood to flare should give a +2 to intimidate?
Grizzled Gryphon
11-12-07, 06:00 AM Very good call, Riftdragon!! Makes perfect sense for this race, too. Heck, maybe even go so far as to say that this race always has Heal as a class skill, because they really do have to know it.

The hood flare giving an intimidate bonus is another good idea.
ToastedAmphibian
11-12-07, 05:42 PM Why a class skill? That dosnt really make any more sense than having posion use as a racial ability. Posion use is a usefull ability for a Rogue that uses posion, not for mr. snake guy who bakes bread or makes daggers for a living. (Posion use is good for any rogue who wants to use posion, REGARDLESS of race. The fact that it would be usefull to a few members of teh race dosnt mean its something they should all be innatley capable of.) Probably a Racial Bonus to heal would be more appropriate. Why should levels in fighter make someone better at harvesting their posion glands? A flat bonus is more inline with common racial bonuses, and helps all members of the race avoide DEATH, which is far more usefull to the race as a whole.
Grizzled Gryphon
11-13-07, 06:50 AM Why a class skill helps all members of the race avoide DEATH, which is far more usefull to the race as a whole.

Exactly.

Seriously, how does someone have a bonus to what amounts to surgery? A racial bonus to that skill, just like a racial bonus to knowledge skills. These are all learned ablilities. Now, a race that has extra steady hands? Sure, a racial bonus to heal works. A race that HAS to learn the skill to avoid death? Yeah, they should all have the skill. It is as integral to this race as speaking a language is to most races. Of course, in this case, not knowing how to speak a language isn't nearly as debilitating as not knowing the skill necassary to prevent your painful death.

So yeah, they should have this as a skill, not a racial bonus.

Here is another angle. It seems to me that a race should have a racial bonus for skills that some physical aspect of the race, or natural ability of the race, apply to. A race that for whatever reason makes no sound when it moves should of course get a racial bonus to Move Silently. A race that has to move quietly all the time to avoid being killed by some monster or whatever would have to learn the skill from an early age, so they would get the skill, not a bonus to the skill. Cobra-kin have to learn this skill to survive, but they have no natural aility or quality that would make them any better at the heal skill then any other race.
baby_kamikaize_kobold
11-13-07, 08:24 PM I added the natural armor bonus and heal check bonus. also removed the poison use.
@jradd: don't have that particular book sorry.
baby_kamikaize_kobold
11-16-07, 08:51 PM any ideas or is that everything that everybody can think of?
riftdragon
11-28-07, 02:55 PM bump
HernetheHunter
11-28-07, 05:21 PM Interesting.
I think the suggestion of spitting the poison would be a good idea. Limit the range and maybe make the poison the equivalent of pepper spray or cause blindness for a limited duration. Or grant it as a bonus feat. I believe it would work with poison buildup as well. Poison in the MM says the DC for poison is 10+Hit Dice/2+Con Modifier

A +2 to intimidate sounds good as well.
A +2 to Balance checks due to the tail as well.

In my opinion it would make a strong 0 LA race
baby_kamikaize_kobold
11-30-07, 07:12 PM Alright I added the intimidate and balance bonuses (can't believe I forgot the balance one) also I regeared the poison to be spit and it does blind. I also added the psionically dead to the original post.

also @ hernethehunter: you really think that this is powerful for a +1 LA. Also, thanks for the poison it really helped.
HernetheHunter
12-01-07, 02:56 AM I think it would be a strong +0LA/weak - Moderate +1LA. I have compared it to other scaly beasts and I think it will work.

I keep thinking back to the GI Joe movie with Cobra-La. Nemesis Enforcer Rules!!!

Anyway, I'd let'er roll. Maybe think of a new name or break them into clans or enclaves.
baby_kamikaize_kobold
12-01-07, 05:26 PM well I don't think it would be best to split them up so do you have any suggestions for a new name?
HernetheHunter
12-01-07, 06:03 PM How about the Najani? Naja-ki?

Also check out this wikpedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spitting_cobra

Really though I was just thinking that cobrakin is more like a title of the science experiment of the yuan-ti. Maybe used derogatively by them when refering to the cobra kin.
baby_kamikaize_kobold
12-01-07, 07:52 PM I like the Naja-ki. I'm horrible at thinking of racial names. thought of one that would be what most common folk would address them as something most other races could pronounce.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
baby_kamikaize_kobold 11-06-07, 07:12 PM	Just thought to try to make a snake race at 0LA opinions welcome as is advice. Cobra-Kin (Naja-ki) Many years ago the yuan-ti, in a bid for power, created a race designed to serve as scouts and saboteurs in their armies. However the Yuan-ti found that their creations were too smart for their own good and attempted to destroy them. They were able to escape and have since fought the Yuan-ti from behind the scenes. Physical Description A cobra-kin stands at about the same height as a human but are usually skinner weighing anywhere from 90lbs to about 140lbs with there being almost no difference in males in females. Their skin ranges in shades of brown and black. Their faces resemble that of a snake with a prominent hood alongside the head. Cobra-kin have tails that drag along the ground and are about 3ft long. A cobra-kin has fangs but they are not usable as weapons. However, what is most interesting about this race is that they appear to be completely dead to psionics and fail to channel the energies use it although they are affected as normal by them. This is most likely caused by the yuan-ti were the cobra-kin ever bold enough to rebel. (Which they were right about obviously) Personality Cobra-kin are mysterious creatures with a love of knowledge, especially knowledge that helps their cause against the Yuan-ti. They have a fascination with many forms of magic and will try to learn as much as they can about any field, even psionics, to better combat the yuan-ti. They are extremely devoted in all of their undertakings and will see them through to the finish. Many find their personalities and near fanaticism to be pressing a times but they are a valuable asset and one would be hard pressed to find a truer companion. Territory Cobra-kin wander the lands as nomads and never settle in one place for very long. They can also be found in cities were they blend into society. They are found in warmer climates more often but there are tales of clans that live in the northern regions. Religion Cobra-kin are not the most pious folk but they can rival the most fanatical priest for zeal if they find a god that matches their outlook. Many worship St. Cuthbert or other deities of justice. Relations Cobra-kin have a bitter hatred for the Yuan-ti and oppose them whenever it is prudent to do so. Most other races that have a mistrust for the yuan-ti believe that there is no difference between the two races and treat them with the same hostility. Alignment Many cobra-kin run along the neutral end of the spectrum. A truly evil cobra-kin is rare but there are always a few that are more than willing to become the monsters that people portray them as. Social Structure Nomadic tribes of cobra-kin live in band of about 15-20 with one child for every three adults. These bands are mostly hunter-gatherers while others conduct raids of yuan-ti caravans for their supplies. Those that live in cities will keep to themselves in group called cells that have about three or four families in them within a district of a city (or a sewer or water drain if they are not welcomed in the city.) Stats • +2 int -2 cha: Cobra-kin have a natural talent for intellectual pursuits but their zeal can be a bit off putting for many people. • 30ft speed • Size: medium no penalties or benefits from size. • Poison Spray: A number of times a day equal to a cobra kin's con modifier it can release a spray of poison that blinds a creature similar to a spitting cobra. The range for this is 10ft and it is a ranged touch attack. This blinds a creature for 1d3+1 minutes unless the affected creature takes a full minute to clean the poison out of its eyes. this takes a considerable amount of water (the DM's discretion) to wash out completely. Even after that the affected creature takes a -2 penalty to spot and search checks due to lingering irritation for 1d3 hours. • Psionically Dead: Due to genetic engineering by the Yuan-ti a cobra –kin can never channel psionic energy. As such a cobra kin can never take levels in a psionic class, but can still use psionic items • Build-up: If a cobra-kin isn’t able to extract the poison from its glands for a period of a month then the glands have a chance of rupturing and dealing 1d4+1 constitution damage to the cobra-kin. If a cobra-kin is unable to get the proper tools to extract the poison then they must deal an amount of damage that is equal to one half of their constitution score, this damage must be slashing or piercing. This build-up becomes apparent with a swollen look in the cheeks where the glands are located. • +2 to heal checks: the breeding of cobra-kin was intended to make a more self-reliant scout and it did, they are very good at saving their own hides. • +2 to move silently checks. Cobra-kin are naturally stealthy. • Low-light vision: a cobra-kin can see twice as far as a human in conditions of poor illumination. • +2 to intimidate. The hood on a cobra kin has the same uses as a standard cobra in that it is used to scare off potential predators. • +2 to balance checks. The tail on a cobra-kin drags along on the ground and provides stability. • +2 natural armor bonus • Languages: cobris bonus languages: common, yuan-ti, elven, dwarven, and gnomish. • Favored class: Rogue, a multi-classing cobra-kin doesn’t count levels of rogue for the purposes of multi-classing. The pursuit of knowledge intrigues cobra-kin and their alienation from many races makes them natural elements of the criminal underworld.
jradd777 11-06-07, 09:08 PM	Alright, I like the concept, I'd love to see more 0 LA serpentine/reptilian races. Some places look as though you didn't finish your thought completely (namely, under Poison, in racial traits) or aren't totally clearly written (that might just be me misunderstanding, though, see what others say about that). For harvesting poison, I'd say rather than Heal check, look at making Craft (poison) a racial class skill that this race always has, and use it for harvesting poison or something (also check out complete scoundrel pg. 111, if you can). Personally, I don't like the Build-up thing as-is, it's weird in my head but I'm sure there are ways to make it work "better," IMO. Of course, better to me, may not be what you want, so I'll withhold some of that for now. Overall, though, I'll say that with a drawback like that, they could stand to get a couple more benefits in my opinion.
Mr_Arcane 11-06-07, 10:24 PM	Interesting. This is definatly a good bit of work. The build up feature is definatly different and this shows that you don't need a bite attack to poison something.
KavonRa 11-06-07, 10:28 PM	I love the flavor of this race ALOT! Personally i would change a couple of things tho just to add to the fluff and to set them apart from the Yuan-Ti. As far as i know Yuan-Ti tend to be any shade of green. Why not make cobra-kin take the shades black and brown, like most cobras. Why not change the whole poison aspect and give them: Example: Poison Spit (ex) You must succeed on a ranged touch attack to hit your target. Poison Spit deals 1d4 Acid dmg & blindness for 1 round. You must wait for 1d6 rounds before you can use it again. Also you might want to consider giving them a +2 bonus on move silently. just my 2 eurocents.
baby_kamikaize_kobold 11-07-07, 06:25 PM	Alright thanks for the input. @jradd: Yeah sorry about the incomplete sentence my fault for not proof reading. Also on the harvesting its really more of a surgery so I'm going to keep the heal check on it. Finally I'd enjoy a better way to do the build-up but I'd like to keep it rather than scrap it. I think its a nice little flaw to the race. @Kavon: Maybe I should change the skin color. Also, I'm trying to keep it 0LA so the poison spit might be a bit much. However, I will add the +2 to move silently. Keep the ideas coming people.
ToastedAmphibian 11-07-07, 10:01 PM	The posion ability is pretty useless for an adventurer. You have a 50% chance of doing one point of con damage to a lvl 10 char with a poor fort save, 10con and no bonuses to saving throws, once a week. An at best all youll acomplish if you suceed is 10hp dmg and lower their save by 1. The only way this ability would be useful is in a large Cobra-Kin society. All individuals show up for their weekly milking and the posion gets distributed to the armed forces. Baring the pressence of a powerfull COBRA COMMANDER this just inst helpful, atleast not past level 2 or something. Id suggest making the number of times they can harvest posion, and the DC for the posion they harvest, be constitution dependent. Let them harvest posion 1+con times per week, and give it a DC of 12+con perhapes? To compensate for the stronger posion, you could remove the posion use ability. They are already immune to the posions secreted by their own race. With such a posion already avialible and abundant, why would they have any racial tendency to be adept at handling posions? The posion tey most often handle isnt posionous to them, so why should they worry about all learning how not to posion themselves?
baby_kamikaize_kobold 11-08-07, 03:37 PM	so why should they worry about all learning how not to posion themselves? Because when your a rogue that secretes its own poison you might want stronger stuff eventually since your own stuff isn't so good. Maybe I should change the poison damage to be based on con modifier. But should the save be modified as the cobra-kin grows in levels? I forgot to post it in the original so I'll post it here since it might not get noticed if I add it Psionically Dead Due to special breeding by their creators cobra-kin are unable to channel psionic energy. as such they can never gain levels in a psionic based class.
jradd777 11-09-07, 02:44 AM	@jradd: Yeah sorry about the incomplete sentence my fault for not proof reading. Also on the harvesting its really more of a surgery so I'm going to keep the heal check on it. Finally I'd enjoy a better way to do the build-up but I'd like to keep it rather than scrap it. I think its a nice little flaw to the race. Yeah, no problem, I figured you just started on something else and forgot to add it. The heal check thing is your choice, since it's your race, but technically a heal check is more meant just for first-aid-ish heal (equivalent of applying a band-aid to CPR). I figured since real snake venom is harvested much as any other venom/some poisons, it would make better sense to allow it to fit in with all the others, even though it seems like they'd be doing it to themselves. Again though, it's your choice in the end. Build-up is a nice flaw, it just seems weird to me. Again, related to other poisonous creatures, it's... I don't know a good word to describe exactly what I mean but, all in all, poisonous creatures normally don't need to use their venom in such a way, like blood it only replenishes itself as it's lost, never at a faster rate, which means never risking something like that. It really seems like too harsh a flaw for the minimal strengths that they have but it could be reworked to make more sense, in my mind. If others think it's great though, I suppose you could just completely disregard my opinion.
baby_kamikaize_kobold 11-09-07, 10:36 PM	well in all logic this isn't a naturally occurring race even in a fantasy world since they were created by another race. I just tried to make it seem as if the Yuan-ti haven't quite mastered the art of racial experimentation so they have some flaws that reflect it. But I see were your argument comes from it really makes no biological sense but oh well.
riftdragon 11-09-07, 10:43 PM	Very interesting. Is their main military force run by Cobra commander if so be careful around GI Joe. All jokes aside. This race seems viable though i personaly dislike the removal of psionic based classes, but its a personal choice. Good Race.
jradd777 11-09-07, 10:51 PM	well in all logic this isn't a naturally occurring race even in a fantasy world since they were created by another race. I just tried to make it seem as if the Yuan-ti haven't quite mastered the art of racial experimentation so they have some flaws that reflect it. But I see were your argument comes from it really makes no biological sense but oh well. Based on that reasoning... I'd say you might be going the right direction with the concept of build-up, after all. Make sure to give the method by which the poison can be delivered that is useful for a player planning to use it (e.g. contact, injury, etc.). I assume you mean it to be injury only and in which case maybe just reword your statement saying that they can't use a bite to deliver it. Such as, "This is an injury type poison that cannot be delivered via a bite due to the lack of proper dental/oral construction."
Grizzled Gryphon 11-10-07, 03:13 AM	Regarding the poison being based on the con of the character, I too think that is a good idea. Otherwise, it is pretty useless. Unless that is another flaw of the race due to the Yuan-ti messing up. If so, then you might want to give this race a little something extra, as that is two flaws without anything to really balance it. All in all, it seems slightly underpowered compared to other races.
jradd777 11-10-07, 06:01 AM	Regarding the poison being based on the con of the character, I too think that is a good idea. Otherwise, it is pretty useless. Unless that is another flaw of the race due to the Yuan-ti messing up. If so, then you might want to give this race a little something extra, as that is two flaws without anything to really balance it. All in all, it seems slightly underpowered compared to other races. Yeah, this is what I was getting at in the beginning. There are other LA 0 races that get poison use (no drawbacks) and probably anywhere from 4 - 7 other decent traits.
baby_kamikaize_kobold 11-11-07, 07:34 PM	Personally I'd rather have it underpowered than overpowered. I just thought this race sound interesting. but if you think they need any more abilities do you have any suggestions.
jradd777 11-11-07, 08:29 PM	Personally I'd rather have it underpowered than overpowered. I just thought this race sound interesting. but if you think they need any more abilities do you have any suggestions. I know what you mean. I hate having to defend something against a volley of "BROKEN!" and it seems like you kind of want them to have that ill-wanted offspring flavor, rather than as a dominant, powerful race. But I'd say Nat Armor makes sense for them... I'll edit this later with more ideas. If you can get a look at Serpent Kingdoms (FR book) checkout the feats in there for some ideas.
riftdragon 11-11-07, 08:59 PM	Perhaps a racial bonus to heal checks?
taradusis 11-11-07, 09:29 PM	How do they compare to the Anthropomorphic viper races found in savage species?I usually remove the legs and give this sort of race a climb speed.A hood to flare should give a +2 to intimidate?
Grizzled Gryphon 11-12-07, 06:00 AM	Very good call, Riftdragon!! Makes perfect sense for this race, too. Heck, maybe even go so far as to say that this race always has Heal as a class skill, because they really do have to know it. The hood flare giving an intimidate bonus is another good idea.
ToastedAmphibian 11-12-07, 05:42 PM	Why a class skill? That dosnt really make any more sense than having posion use as a racial ability. Posion use is a usefull ability for a Rogue that uses posion, not for mr. snake guy who bakes bread or makes daggers for a living. (Posion use is good for any rogue who wants to use posion, REGARDLESS of race. The fact that it would be usefull to a few members of teh race dosnt mean its something they should all be innatley capable of.) Probably a Racial Bonus to heal would be more appropriate. Why should levels in fighter make someone better at harvesting their posion glands? A flat bonus is more inline with common racial bonuses, and helps all members of the race avoide DEATH, which is far more usefull to the race as a whole.
Grizzled Gryphon 11-13-07, 06:50 AM	Why a class skill helps all members of the race avoide DEATH, which is far more usefull to the race as a whole. Exactly. Seriously, how does someone have a bonus to what amounts to surgery? A racial bonus to that skill, just like a racial bonus to knowledge skills. These are all learned ablilities. Now, a race that has extra steady hands? Sure, a racial bonus to heal works. A race that HAS to learn the skill to avoid death? Yeah, they should all have the skill. It is as integral to this race as speaking a language is to most races. Of course, in this case, not knowing how to speak a language isn't nearly as debilitating as not knowing the skill necassary to prevent your painful death. So yeah, they should have this as a skill, not a racial bonus. Here is another angle. It seems to me that a race should have a racial bonus for skills that some physical aspect of the race, or natural ability of the race, apply to. A race that for whatever reason makes no sound when it moves should of course get a racial bonus to Move Silently. A race that has to move quietly all the time to avoid being killed by some monster or whatever would have to learn the skill from an early age, so they would get the skill, not a bonus to the skill. Cobra-kin have to learn this skill to survive, but they have no natural aility or quality that would make them any better at the heal skill then any other race.
baby_kamikaize_kobold 11-13-07, 08:24 PM	I added the natural armor bonus and heal check bonus. also removed the poison use. @jradd: don't have that particular book sorry.
baby_kamikaize_kobold 11-16-07, 08:51 PM	any ideas or is that everything that everybody can think of?
riftdragon 11-28-07, 02:55 PM	bump
HernetheHunter 11-28-07, 05:21 PM	Interesting. I think the suggestion of spitting the poison would be a good idea. Limit the range and maybe make the poison the equivalent of pepper spray or cause blindness for a limited duration. Or grant it as a bonus feat. I believe it would work with poison buildup as well. Poison in the MM says the DC for poison is 10+Hit Dice/2+Con Modifier A +2 to intimidate sounds good as well. A +2 to Balance checks due to the tail as well. In my opinion it would make a strong 0 LA race
baby_kamikaize_kobold 11-30-07, 07:12 PM	Alright I added the intimidate and balance bonuses (can't believe I forgot the balance one) also I regeared the poison to be spit and it does blind. I also added the psionically dead to the original post. also @ hernethehunter: you really think that this is powerful for a +1 LA. Also, thanks for the poison it really helped.
HernetheHunter 12-01-07, 02:56 AM	I think it would be a strong +0LA/weak - Moderate +1LA. I have compared it to other scaly beasts and I think it will work. I keep thinking back to the GI Joe movie with Cobra-La. Nemesis Enforcer Rules!!! Anyway, I'd let'er roll. Maybe think of a new name or break them into clans or enclaves.
baby_kamikaize_kobold 12-01-07, 05:26 PM	well I don't think it would be best to split them up so do you have any suggestions for a new name?
HernetheHunter 12-01-07, 06:03 PM	How about the Najani? Naja-ki? Also check out this wikpedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spitting_cobra Really though I was just thinking that cobrakin is more like a title of the science experiment of the yuan-ti. Maybe used derogatively by them when refering to the cobra kin.
baby_kamikaize_kobold 12-01-07, 07:52 PM	I like the Naja-ki. I'm horrible at thinking of racial names. thought of one that would be what most common folk would address them as something most other races could pronounce.