Half Celestial Human / Half Dragon do the templates stack? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Half Celestial Human / Half Dragon do the templates stack? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
darrylhaines
03-05-07, 07:56 AM Good day guys,

I'm fairly newish to Dungeons and Dragons (Been playing since last September) and I was wondering if it's possible to play a PC who is Half Human Celestial / Half Dragon (gold, silver, bronze, copper).

Do the templates stack?

Or will I have to go Celestial human/half dragon?
Vagrond
03-05-07, 08:00 AM You can do it, though the character would be very weak for their ecl (effective character level). However Half-Dragon applied to Celestial Human makes more sense than Half-Celestial applied to Half-Dragon human or Half-Dragon applied to Half-Celestial human
JarionSilverblades
03-05-07, 08:41 AM Wouldn't a Half-Dragon/Half-Celestial Human, have a LA of like +7?
runestar
03-05-07, 08:55 AM There are some overlap of abilities, so I think the LA could be revised down to +6. But it is still pretty much unplayable. Your half-celestial SLA progression is delayed so much due to you having so little HD, and you are sure to fall to the first lucky crit which comes your way...:(
darrylhaines
03-05-07, 09:15 AM Lol, I'm not thinking of starting this from 1st level.

My Friends are thinking of doing an epic level campaign starting at 25th lvl, so I'll start it at 18th level if I go the Celestial Human / Half Dragon.

A pity as I have to gain 3 levels to get the "Perfect Two Weapon Fighting" Feat.

Thanks for the advice.
fanitullen
03-05-07, 10:10 AM You would have to go CELESTIAL human /half-dragon.

You can't have a half-celestial/half-dragon human.
The half-xxxx-templates signifies that a human (or whatever race) had a baby with another race. A half dragon human is then half dragon, half human. A half-celestial/half-dragon human would then be 50% dragon, 50% celestial and 50% human, which in my book makes 150%, something which is a bit hard to accomplish.
Khantalas
03-05-07, 10:20 AM Well, how you do that is very appearant.

Half-Celestial / Half - "Half-Dragon / Half-Human" works pretty easily, both mathematcially and mechanically.
Thomar_of_Uointer
03-05-07, 12:24 PM Good day guys,

I'm fairly newish to Dungeons and Dragons (Been playing since last September) and I was wondering if it's possible to play a PC who is Half Human Celestial / Half Dragon (gold, silver, bronze, copper).

Do the templates stack?

Or will I have to go Celestial human/half dragon?

The templates stack, neither grants a typed bonus besides natural armor, and it explicitly stacks.

fanitullen, the rules on templates state that you can apply as many templates as you care to.
Darth Sephiroth
03-05-07, 12:53 PM One fun way to pull this type of thing off is to go from a Half-Dragon Lesser Aasimaar to Half-Dragon Aasimaar to Half-Dragon Half-Celestial and you could use the Savage Progressions and Template Classes to pull it off when you want to rather than in two huge blocks.

My suggestion is to go with the Half-Dragon (Gold) or (Radiant) as your base Dragon and take the Outsider Wings as I believe they are the better wings compared to Dragon Wings.
Thomar_of_Uointer
03-05-07, 01:17 PM One fun way to pull this type of thing off is to go from a Half-Dragon Lesser Aasimaar to Half-Dragon Aasimaar to Half-Dragon Half-Celestial and you could use the Savage Progressions and Template Classes to pull it off when you want to rather than in two huge blocks.

My suggestion is to go with the Half-Dragon (Gold) or (Radiant) as your base Dragon and take the Outsider Wings as I believe they are the better wings compared to Dragon Wings.

The OP already said this is a level 25 character.
Templario
03-05-07, 01:36 PM Where I can find the rules about making a celestial human?
Argaud
03-05-07, 01:40 PM Where I can find the rules about making a celestial human?
The MM, but they aren't worth the +2 LA. A human with half-dragon and half-celestial templates is possible, although the massive +7 LA hurts even at ECL25. The creature would be an outsider, though, not a dragon or a humanoid, because the outsider template dominates the other types (rules are in SS).
fanitullen
03-05-07, 03:51 PM The templates stack, neither grants a typed bonus besides natural armor, and it explicitly stacks.

fanitullen, the rules on templates state that you can apply as many templates as you care to.

Don't throw that RAW-**** at me. Use common sense, if you've got it. A person CAN NOT be 150 %, i.e. three halves. Yes, you could make a half-dragon vampire illithidkin, but HALF implies that it is exactly that, HALF the composition of a person, and a person cannot consist of three parts.
Yadot
03-05-07, 03:56 PM Don't throw that RAW-**** at me. Use common sense, if you've got it. A person CAN NOT be 150 %, i.e. three halves. Yes, you could make a half-dragon vampire illithidkin, but HALF implies that it is exactly that, HALF the composition of a person, and a person cannot consist of three parts.

That is why in Savage Species they said the Half-XXXX templates should be considerd to be be a "lot of XXXX heritage" templates and not exactly one half of XXXX.
Shadowmind64
03-05-07, 04:12 PM you could do a half celestial, half dragon human no problem. you breed a celestial human with a dragon. :P
Thomar_of_Uointer
03-05-07, 08:00 PM Don't throw that RAW-**** at me. Use common sense, if you've got it. A person CAN NOT be 150 %, i.e. three halves. Yes, you could make a half-dragon vampire illithidkin, but HALF implies that it is exactly that, HALF the composition of a person, and a person cannot consist of three parts.

No, look at it this way:

Half-dragon half-celestial human, the descendant of half-dragon and half-celestial parents.

1/2 is human
1/4, or half of the other half, is dragon
1/4, or half of the other half, is celestial

I see no problem with it. You definitely wouldn't call it a "half-dragon-half-celestial human", but that's what the templates would work out to. I would probably make up a campaign-specific name for it, probably "ryujaidunsui" or something appropriately foreign.
betrayor
03-05-07, 08:52 PM So what would you call the child of say a gold half-dragon and a celestial human?
I would call it a gold half-dragon half celestial human.
enygmatic_me
03-05-07, 09:09 PM The Background would, in my opinion, go something like this.

A Dragon and a Half-Dragon (human) have a child. The child is still considered a half-dragon.

At around the same time a child of a Trumpet Archon (or some other celestial outsider) and a human, which would be a Half-Celestial, has a child with a Solar (or, again, some other celestial outsider) their child is also a half-celestial.

So, these half race off-springs (which actually have more than just "half" heritage) meet on some fateful night during a bloody battle saving the hamlet of Cliche and fall in love. They eventually have a child of their own. This child would be a Half-Celestial/Half-Dragon Human.
JarionSilverblades
03-05-07, 09:14 PM If a 1/2 Silver Dragon-Human and a 1/2 Blue Dragon Orc had a child then what would the child be, I know a Half-orc but what about the dragon half?
Darth Sephiroth
03-05-07, 11:37 PM Both, you could probably cut it down to 1 additional LA increase and have a second immunity and Breath Weapon (Or extra type of breath weapon where either type can be used but only one or ther other during a day)
runestar
03-06-07, 01:36 AM Don't throw that RAW-**** at me. Use common sense, if you've got it. A person CAN NOT be 150 %, i.e. three halves. Yes, you could make a half-dragon vampire illithidkin, but HALF implies that it is exactly that, HALF the composition of a person, and a person cannot consist of three parts.
Half-something does not necessarily mean that you must have exactly 50% of that parent's heritage in your blood. It just means that you hail from such a lineage, and can draw the appropriate benefits.

For example, a half dragon could have mated with a celestial. The offspring would have the half-celestial template. While the half-draconic blood may have been diluted, it might nonetheless still be strong enough to confer the full benefits of the half-dragon template.

In game terms, since you are paying for whatever you take with LA, it is good to go.:)

If it offends your senses so much, then just think of it as quarter dragon template, but with all the benefits nonetheless.
dragynson1
03-06-07, 01:21 PM What class is the OP planning on playing?
Dragon disciple is a way to become a half dragon without the LA, highly recomended if a mellee class. not so much for caster.
runestar
03-06-07, 08:36 PM Dragon disciple is a way to become a half dragon without the LA, highly recomended if a mellee class. not so much for caster.
Not a bad idea.
If it was the only template, I would rather take the half dragon template and 7 lvs in a class which actually did something, rather than taking the DD prc.

However, in light of him taking the half-celestial template as well, this results in a loss of 7 possible HD due to LA. Thus, it might be better to mitigate this loss by taking more class lvs where appropriate, both for more HD and its related benefits.:)
darrylhaines
03-07-07, 03:51 AM I am thinking of going with either a fighter or paladin.

I was mainly going for the Celestial template for the spell resistance, but I think I'll drop that and go Human Paragon / Half Dragon as the Paragon add's 15 to each ability base score and a +10 skill modifier to each skill.
All at no LA (From what I can tell a paragon in the epic level handbook doesn't have an LA).

So I'll probably go fighter/paladin 22nd lvl human paragon / half dragon for an ECL of 25.

(If there is a LA for a paragon, please let me know so that I can reconfigure the template in Etools lol).
runestar
03-07-07, 04:00 AM Spell resistance is useless with LA.
In your case, you have sr of 10+class lvs but LA+7. This means that any foe you do meet will have no problems overcoming your sr.

Paragon has no listed LA. And it definitely will not have a LA of just +3...;)
darrylhaines
03-07-07, 07:36 AM Spell resistance is useless with LA.
In your case, you have sr of 10+class lvs but LA+7. This means that any foe you do meet will have no problems overcoming your sr.

Paragon has no listed LA. And it definitely will not have a LA of just +3...;)

The LA of +3 is for the half Dragon Template.
Millennium
03-07-07, 12:27 PM Am I right that you want someone with one dragon parent and one celestial human parent, and generally takes after the celestial human parent (e.g. it looks more like a human than it does like a dragon)? If that's the case, then you want to go with a celestial human who has the half-dragon template.
Domriso
03-07-07, 03:27 PM Really you could take it on either hand. Personally my opinion is that if you had a dragon breed with a celestial human that it would create a half-dragon, celestial human. If you wanted a half-dragon half-celestial human you would need a celestial dragon to breed with a human.
Mark_Constantino
03-07-07, 04:41 PM There are some overlap of abilities, so I think the LA could be revised down to +6. But it is still pretty much unplayable. Your half-celestial SLA progression is delayed so much due to you having so little HD, and you are sure to fall to the first lucky crit which comes your way...:(

I dunno. I'm playing a Saint (+4 LA) Half-Dragon (Gold; LA +3) Aasimar (+1 LA) Gestalt character at ECL 10 (first four levels taken by +8 LA) with 6 hit dice and I'm doing rather well in an arena campaign (3 wins, 1 loss). The downside is that I'm susceptible still to Cloudkill spells with low hit dice, but I'm immune to acid, electricity, fire, and cold plus I'm covered by a continuous lesser globe of invulnerability, and +4 natural armor doesn't hurt, and I have a 28 Charisma which makes my spells irresistible.
Darth Sephiroth
03-07-07, 04:51 PM One option for the how is to simply create an opposite version of the Disciple of Ashardalon with a Celestial focus rather than a Fiendish one and have an ancient dragon who complete that be the dragon parent.
Capt. Pixel
03-07-07, 06:15 PM I'm thinking that this poor 1/2-C/ 1/2-D probably has a lot of identity issues and a severe personal esteem problem. (But that's just roleplay talk)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
darrylhaines 03-05-07, 07:56 AM	Good day guys, I'm fairly newish to Dungeons and Dragons (Been playing since last September) and I was wondering if it's possible to play a PC who is Half Human Celestial / Half Dragon (gold, silver, bronze, copper). Do the templates stack? Or will I have to go Celestial human/half dragon?
Vagrond 03-05-07, 08:00 AM	You can do it, though the character would be very weak for their ecl (effective character level). However Half-Dragon applied to Celestial Human makes more sense than Half-Celestial applied to Half-Dragon human or Half-Dragon applied to Half-Celestial human
JarionSilverblades 03-05-07, 08:41 AM	Wouldn't a Half-Dragon/Half-Celestial Human, have a LA of like +7?
runestar 03-05-07, 08:55 AM	There are some overlap of abilities, so I think the LA could be revised down to +6. But it is still pretty much unplayable. Your half-celestial SLA progression is delayed so much due to you having so little HD, and you are sure to fall to the first lucky crit which comes your way...:(
darrylhaines 03-05-07, 09:15 AM	Lol, I'm not thinking of starting this from 1st level. My Friends are thinking of doing an epic level campaign starting at 25th lvl, so I'll start it at 18th level if I go the Celestial Human / Half Dragon. A pity as I have to gain 3 levels to get the "Perfect Two Weapon Fighting" Feat. Thanks for the advice.
fanitullen 03-05-07, 10:10 AM	You would have to go CELESTIAL human /half-dragon. You can't have a half-celestial/half-dragon human. The half-xxxx-templates signifies that a human (or whatever race) had a baby with another race. A half dragon human is then half dragon, half human. A half-celestial/half-dragon human would then be 50% dragon, 50% celestial and 50% human, which in my book makes 150%, something which is a bit hard to accomplish.
Khantalas 03-05-07, 10:20 AM	Well, how you do that is very appearant. Half-Celestial / Half - "Half-Dragon / Half-Human" works pretty easily, both mathematcially and mechanically.
Thomar_of_Uointer 03-05-07, 12:24 PM	Good day guys, I'm fairly newish to Dungeons and Dragons (Been playing since last September) and I was wondering if it's possible to play a PC who is Half Human Celestial / Half Dragon (gold, silver, bronze, copper). Do the templates stack? Or will I have to go Celestial human/half dragon? The templates stack, neither grants a typed bonus besides natural armor, and it explicitly stacks. fanitullen, the rules on templates state that you can apply as many templates as you care to.
Darth Sephiroth 03-05-07, 12:53 PM	One fun way to pull this type of thing off is to go from a Half-Dragon Lesser Aasimaar to Half-Dragon Aasimaar to Half-Dragon Half-Celestial and you could use the Savage Progressions and Template Classes to pull it off when you want to rather than in two huge blocks. My suggestion is to go with the Half-Dragon (Gold) or (Radiant) as your base Dragon and take the Outsider Wings as I believe they are the better wings compared to Dragon Wings.
Thomar_of_Uointer 03-05-07, 01:17 PM	One fun way to pull this type of thing off is to go from a Half-Dragon Lesser Aasimaar to Half-Dragon Aasimaar to Half-Dragon Half-Celestial and you could use the Savage Progressions and Template Classes to pull it off when you want to rather than in two huge blocks. My suggestion is to go with the Half-Dragon (Gold) or (Radiant) as your base Dragon and take the Outsider Wings as I believe they are the better wings compared to Dragon Wings. The OP already said this is a level 25 character.
Templario 03-05-07, 01:36 PM	Where I can find the rules about making a celestial human?
Argaud 03-05-07, 01:40 PM	Where I can find the rules about making a celestial human? The MM, but they aren't worth the +2 LA. A human with half-dragon and half-celestial templates is possible, although the massive +7 LA hurts even at ECL25. The creature would be an outsider, though, not a dragon or a humanoid, because the outsider template dominates the other types (rules are in SS).
fanitullen 03-05-07, 03:51 PM	The templates stack, neither grants a typed bonus besides natural armor, and it explicitly stacks. fanitullen, the rules on templates state that you can apply as many templates as you care to. Don't throw that RAW-**** at me. Use common sense, if you've got it. A person CAN NOT be 150 %, i.e. three halves. Yes, you could make a half-dragon vampire illithidkin, but HALF implies that it is exactly that, HALF the composition of a person, and a person cannot consist of three parts.
Yadot 03-05-07, 03:56 PM	Don't throw that RAW-**** at me. Use common sense, if you've got it. A person CAN NOT be 150 %, i.e. three halves. Yes, you could make a half-dragon vampire illithidkin, but HALF implies that it is exactly that, HALF the composition of a person, and a person cannot consist of three parts. That is why in Savage Species they said the Half-XXXX templates should be considerd to be be a "lot of XXXX heritage" templates and not exactly one half of XXXX.
Shadowmind64 03-05-07, 04:12 PM	you could do a half celestial, half dragon human no problem. you breed a celestial human with a dragon. :P
Thomar_of_Uointer 03-05-07, 08:00 PM	Don't throw that RAW-**** at me. Use common sense, if you've got it. A person CAN NOT be 150 %, i.e. three halves. Yes, you could make a half-dragon vampire illithidkin, but HALF implies that it is exactly that, HALF the composition of a person, and a person cannot consist of three parts. No, look at it this way: Half-dragon half-celestial human, the descendant of half-dragon and half-celestial parents. 1/2 is human 1/4, or half of the other half, is dragon 1/4, or half of the other half, is celestial I see no problem with it. You definitely wouldn't call it a "half-dragon-half-celestial human", but that's what the templates would work out to. I would probably make up a campaign-specific name for it, probably "ryujaidunsui" or something appropriately foreign.
betrayor 03-05-07, 08:52 PM	So what would you call the child of say a gold half-dragon and a celestial human? I would call it a gold half-dragon half celestial human.
enygmatic_me 03-05-07, 09:09 PM	The Background would, in my opinion, go something like this. A Dragon and a Half-Dragon (human) have a child. The child is still considered a half-dragon. At around the same time a child of a Trumpet Archon (or some other celestial outsider) and a human, which would be a Half-Celestial, has a child with a Solar (or, again, some other celestial outsider) their child is also a half-celestial. So, these half race off-springs (which actually have more than just "half" heritage) meet on some fateful night during a bloody battle saving the hamlet of Cliche and fall in love. They eventually have a child of their own. This child would be a Half-Celestial/Half-Dragon Human.
JarionSilverblades 03-05-07, 09:14 PM	If a 1/2 Silver Dragon-Human and a 1/2 Blue Dragon Orc had a child then what would the child be, I know a Half-orc but what about the dragon half?
Darth Sephiroth 03-05-07, 11:37 PM	Both, you could probably cut it down to 1 additional LA increase and have a second immunity and Breath Weapon (Or extra type of breath weapon where either type can be used but only one or ther other during a day)
runestar 03-06-07, 01:36 AM	Don't throw that RAW-**** at me. Use common sense, if you've got it. A person CAN NOT be 150 %, i.e. three halves. Yes, you could make a half-dragon vampire illithidkin, but HALF implies that it is exactly that, HALF the composition of a person, and a person cannot consist of three parts. Half-something does not necessarily mean that you must have exactly 50% of that parent's heritage in your blood. It just means that you hail from such a lineage, and can draw the appropriate benefits. For example, a half dragon could have mated with a celestial. The offspring would have the half-celestial template. While the half-draconic blood may have been diluted, it might nonetheless still be strong enough to confer the full benefits of the half-dragon template. In game terms, since you are paying for whatever you take with LA, it is good to go.:) If it offends your senses so much, then just think of it as quarter dragon template, but with all the benefits nonetheless.
dragynson1 03-06-07, 01:21 PM	What class is the OP planning on playing? Dragon disciple is a way to become a half dragon without the LA, highly recomended if a mellee class. not so much for caster.
runestar 03-06-07, 08:36 PM	Dragon disciple is a way to become a half dragon without the LA, highly recomended if a mellee class. not so much for caster. Not a bad idea. If it was the only template, I would rather take the half dragon template and 7 lvs in a class which actually did something, rather than taking the DD prc. However, in light of him taking the half-celestial template as well, this results in a loss of 7 possible HD due to LA. Thus, it might be better to mitigate this loss by taking more class lvs where appropriate, both for more HD and its related benefits.:)
darrylhaines 03-07-07, 03:51 AM	I am thinking of going with either a fighter or paladin. I was mainly going for the Celestial template for the spell resistance, but I think I'll drop that and go Human Paragon / Half Dragon as the Paragon add's 15 to each ability base score and a +10 skill modifier to each skill. All at no LA (From what I can tell a paragon in the epic level handbook doesn't have an LA). So I'll probably go fighter/paladin 22nd lvl human paragon / half dragon for an ECL of 25. (If there is a LA for a paragon, please let me know so that I can reconfigure the template in Etools lol).
runestar 03-07-07, 04:00 AM	Spell resistance is useless with LA. In your case, you have sr of 10+class lvs but LA+7. This means that any foe you do meet will have no problems overcoming your sr. Paragon has no listed LA. And it definitely will not have a LA of just +3...;)
darrylhaines 03-07-07, 07:36 AM	Spell resistance is useless with LA. In your case, you have sr of 10+class lvs but LA+7. This means that any foe you do meet will have no problems overcoming your sr. Paragon has no listed LA. And it definitely will not have a LA of just +3...;) The LA of +3 is for the half Dragon Template.
Millennium 03-07-07, 12:27 PM	Am I right that you want someone with one dragon parent and one celestial human parent, and generally takes after the celestial human parent (e.g. it looks more like a human than it does like a dragon)? If that's the case, then you want to go with a celestial human who has the half-dragon template.
Domriso 03-07-07, 03:27 PM	Really you could take it on either hand. Personally my opinion is that if you had a dragon breed with a celestial human that it would create a half-dragon, celestial human. If you wanted a half-dragon half-celestial human you would need a celestial dragon to breed with a human.
Mark_Constantino 03-07-07, 04:41 PM	There are some overlap of abilities, so I think the LA could be revised down to +6. But it is still pretty much unplayable. Your half-celestial SLA progression is delayed so much due to you having so little HD, and you are sure to fall to the first lucky crit which comes your way...:( I dunno. I'm playing a Saint (+4 LA) Half-Dragon (Gold; LA +3) Aasimar (+1 LA) Gestalt character at ECL 10 (first four levels taken by +8 LA) with 6 hit dice and I'm doing rather well in an arena campaign (3 wins, 1 loss). The downside is that I'm susceptible still to Cloudkill spells with low hit dice, but I'm immune to acid, electricity, fire, and cold plus I'm covered by a continuous lesser globe of invulnerability, and +4 natural armor doesn't hurt, and I have a 28 Charisma which makes my spells irresistible.
Darth Sephiroth 03-07-07, 04:51 PM	One option for the how is to simply create an opposite version of the Disciple of Ashardalon with a Celestial focus rather than a Fiendish one and have an ancient dragon who complete that be the dragon parent.
Capt. Pixel 03-07-07, 06:15 PM	I'm thinking that this poor 1/2-C/ 1/2-D probably has a lot of identity issues and a severe personal esteem problem. (But that's just roleplay talk)