Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Arthalarus 04-09-07, 11:25 AM	Yes, I know the LA and such is crazy high but since I am once again the DM of my own campaign I dont worry about such stupid things I just level up the characters as though they were mere human race....anyway let me know what you all think
Warforged Goblin 04-09-07, 11:51 AM	What? Is this a creature that you're running, a templated character, or simply gibberish?
silvianna 04-09-07, 02:32 PM	Yes, I know the LA and such is crazy high but since I am once again the DM of my own campaign I dont worry about such stupid things I just level up the characters as though they were mere human race....anyway let me know what you all think i just started playing d&d ALWAYS as the dungeon master because my friends dont know anything about RPG so my games are so boring...:weep:
Einvaldurinn_mikli 04-09-07, 02:46 PM	Someone is actually going to play that thing???
Arthalarus 04-10-07, 12:21 AM	Yeah why not, it has a high AB and a huge number of spells it can do at will and not to mention all of its sweet special abilities it can use. This half and half race is in my opinion really a cool idea.
enygmatic_me 04-10-07, 12:35 AM	Hold on, just so I understand this right. This is a player that is going to be in your game and you plan on letting it level up as it was a normal human?
Bluehero 04-10-07, 12:41 AM	If your going to let in half solar half titans that adventure along side human wizards of the same level then I want to be a tarrasque/ great wyrm dragon hybrid.
Aryxbez 04-10-07, 12:42 AM	So what are abilities for these Half divine like beings? I mean the writeup I would like to see.
Jaxgaret 04-10-07, 01:01 AM	If your going to let in half solar half titans that adventure along side human wizards of the same level then I want to be a tarrasque/ great wyrm dragon hybrid. Screw that. I want to be an Advanced Gelatinous Cube/Leshay.
runestar 04-10-07, 02:21 AM	I am not aware of a half-titan template floating around... Do you mean a titan with the half-celestial template(much more sane), or a solar with the titan bloodline or something?:confused:
DarkflameX 04-10-07, 02:24 AM	leveling that thing up is crazy.... re think it
gullas 04-10-07, 07:26 AM	ok..........Arthalarus you get my cookie for the crazy-est:P thread of the year. :cookie:
Arthalarus 04-10-07, 08:55 PM	What I mean is you take a full blooded Titan a full blooded Solar Angel you dumb down their feats and ability scores by half add them together to the scores you roll with the D6 and then thats your characters stats, now for the feats and what not you take whatever class you wish the character to be and simply get feats that would suit the character, special abilities is all the ones a solar angel and titan get (I dont half those) and spells I only give the ones the titan and solar angel can do at will all others arent used
Arthalarus 04-10-07, 08:55 PM	If you'd like I can post the character and all of his goodies on here when I get around to it either later tonight or early in the morning tomorrow perhaps.
Arthalarus 04-10-07, 09:00 PM	Not to mention if you think thats bad I have a character who is a half Balor half Dragon running around in the game, its pretty much a game based around going against all the gods so we atleast have some form of a challenge
Magrus 04-10-07, 09:15 PM	This made my DM brain hurt.
Warforged Goblin 04-11-07, 08:44 AM	That is, quite possibly, the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Congratulations, you have lost the internet. Why would you concieve of playing such a thing? I realize that your campaign is going to be fighting gods, but if that's the case, why start at 1st level? Not only that, why would a half-dragon balor work with a half-celestial titan? Let me guess, the rest of your party members are the axiomatic slaad and the half-water elemental efreet, right? Yeesh...
Banatine 04-11-07, 09:08 AM	Why is it always the first reaction of people to call an idea like this stupid? LA is stupid anyway. We ignore LA of less than +2 because there is no point in it. I like the idea of going sagainst the gods, sort of ragnarok style. Of course, the party will need to be epic level. As far as i know, the lowest CR of any god is around 50, so you need all the power you can find.
Warforged Goblin 04-11-07, 09:31 AM	A campaign where you fight the gods? Not stupid. A campaign where you start at 1st level and work your way up to fighting the gods? Not stupid. A campaign where you start at epic levels to fight the gods? Not stupid. A campaign where you start higher than first level as a more powerful creature with a Level Adjustment and work your way up to fight the gods? Not stupid. A campaign where you take epic powered monsters, arbitrarily mix them together, "dumb down" their innate abilities and ignore any semblance to the proper rules for Challenge Rating and ECL? In my opinion, stupid. If this half-celestial titan was indeed brought down to 1st level equivalency, I'll bet my entire collection of DnD books that my 1st level dwarf - no, human - fighter would be able to take it out. I think its stupid because it takes all the fun out of the campaign. Any idiot with a Player's Handbook and Monster Manual can slap together a massive and unreasonable creature/character concept to stomp on gods. The phrase "if it has stats, we can kill it" does hold a certain amount of credence. However, where exactly is the fun in it? If you truly just want to whup on deities, play a video game with god mode. If you want to play an interesting game with great possibilities for roleplay as well as an epic final battle, start at low levels and work your way up. That "mix them together and take only some of the stuff" thing just doens't sit well with me.
Selgard 04-11-07, 09:32 AM	It's just a half-celestial Titan. What Celestial that half happens to be, is merely fluff for the character's history.
runestar 04-11-07, 09:52 AM	I think the bottom line is: If they are having fun, who are you to care?;)
Warforged Goblin 04-11-07, 10:04 AM	I think the bottom line is: If they are having fun, who are you to care?;) I... But... He... *sigh* Damn, I hate it when people get me with this one. I'll shut up, but let's just say I wouldn't want to play in that game.
runestar 04-11-07, 10:16 AM	Well, to be fair, he did ask for all our opinions. And that was what you all provided. Though I personally felt felt you were quite close to crossing the line from honest feedback to outright condemnation/flaming. Maybe it is just me...:embarrass
Warforged Goblin 04-11-07, 11:29 AM	Though I personally felt felt you were quite close to crossing the line from honest feedback to outright condemnation/flaming. Maybe it is just me...:embarrass No, I admit, my little demon that I normally keep chained up momentarily got loose and I apologize for almost flaming. My suggestion would be to start the campaign at 2nd level, start as a celestial human with the titan bloodline and "grow" (like the draconic to half-dragon progression in Races of the Dragon) into a half-celestial.
Arthalarus 04-11-07, 11:46 AM	I am sorry I didnt say it but we do start out at lv 30 so it is quite possible to beat the hell out of a god, in any event why would a demon working with an angel be considered dumb that is like taking a chaotic evil character and having it work with a lawful neutral character it can happen, players with a common goal in life dont hurt eachother because what is the point to it if one of you dies the cause is lost. and so I make it clear the way I make the characters I roll up stats as though it were a human fighter I take those numbers such as 18, 13 and 12 and I add those to the base strength of a titan and a solar angel added together divided by 2 to make it fair I do this with all the stats and then I take all of the creatures special abilities and use them ALL. I take the feats of whatever class you are plus the feats suggested to be given to the monster. and skills is also whatever is good for the creatures plus their class their saves are the saves of the two monsters together divided by two once again plus the base save of the class. and weapons and armor I just make up like a magical full plate +8 or something with an AC bonus of 23 or...something along those lines:)
Einvaldurinn_mikli 04-11-07, 12:55 PM	I am sorry I didnt say it but we do start out at lv 30 so it is quite possible to beat the hell out of a god, in any event why would a demon working with an angel be considered dumb that is like taking a chaotic evil character and having it work with a lawful neutral character it can happen, players with a common goal in life dont hurt eachother because what is the point to it if one of you dies the cause is lost. and so I make it clear the way I make the characters I roll up stats as though it were a human fighter I take those numbers such as 18, 13 and 12 and I add those to the base strength of a titan and a solar angel added together divided by 2 to make it fair I do this with all the stats and then I take all of the creatures special abilities and use them ALL. I take the feats of whatever class you are plus the feats suggested to be given to the monster. and skills is also whatever is good for the creatures plus their class their saves are the saves of the two monsters together divided by two once again plus the base save of the class. and weapons and armor I just make up like a magical full plate +8 or something with an AC bonus of 23 or...something along those lines:) You are doing it wrong.
LordBOB777 04-11-07, 01:18 PM	I am sorry I didnt say it but we do start out at lv 30 so it is quite possible to beat the hell out of a god, in any event why would a demon working with an angel be considered dumb that is like taking a chaotic evil character and having it work with a lawful neutral character it can happen, players with a common goal in life dont hurt eachother because what is the point to it if one of you dies the cause is lost. and so I make it clear the way I make the characters I roll up stats as though it were a human fighter I take those numbers such as 18, 13 and 12 and I add those to the base strength of a titan and a solar angel added together divided by 2 to make it fair I do this with all the stats and then I take all of the creatures special abilities and use them ALL. I take the feats of whatever class you are plus the feats suggested to be given to the monster. and skills is also whatever is good for the creatures plus their class their saves are the saves of the two monsters together divided by two once again plus the base save of the class. and weapons and armor I just make up like a magical full plate +8 or something with an AC bonus of 23 or...something along those lines:) Reading that made my brain hurt. Taking a few minutes to punctuate your typing makes ALL the difference.
Journeyman Samwise 04-11-07, 01:27 PM	There is so very much wrong with this. SO VERY MUCH.
Arthalarus 04-11-07, 02:16 PM	Like I said I dont care about that lame LA and ECL crap I use the monster type characters as if they were simply humans going from level one to 20. However they started at level 30 because as it has been said its dumb to tie down a character who is a monster to the levels of one through 10 or even 20
Warforged Goblin 04-11-07, 02:29 PM	I have 2nd Edition players who would beat you senseless if they saw this. Now, and this isn't directly aimed at Arthalarus, but this is a problem I see with the future generations of DnD and roleplaying in general: the video game-ization of tabletop gaming. Yes, it's kool and neat to play a god of a character, but there are rules that need to be followed in order to play to game correctly. Rules that have to do with ECL and LA. If you want to ignore those, how about ignoring the stats for the base classes while you're at it. Or maybe those silly things like racial modifiers and initiative sequence. Hell, why not just take two action figures and smack them together because if you start throwing out the rules, that's what you might as well be doing. </RANT> And Arthalarus, while you may not want to use ECL and LA, I suggest you look into some other "lame crap" called grammar and punctuation.
Arthalarus 04-11-07, 02:35 PM	2nd edition players have bigger and more important issues to deal with other than myself. Such as the fact most of their spells and tactics of battle they have come to know and love, gone the spells have changed, times have changed you cant simply allow for something as senseless as ELC and LA hold down your imagination, thats all I am saying people of today need to stop worrying how powerful one character is, the DM can handle it by making an even more kick ass monster. Dont be scared, just play the game
Warforged Goblin 04-11-07, 05:51 PM	...all I am saying people of today need to stop worrying how powerful one character is, the DM can handle it by making an even more kick ass monster. Dont be scared, just play the game That's what I'm saying! Don't start powerful! It's the journey, not the destination!
Arthalarus 04-12-07, 12:20 PM	Making those kinds of things is not too powerful, remember we will be taking on the gods who could easily wipe out an entire army of humans and elves together and STILL have time to dip dwarfs into their midday tea for a snack after they finish destroying all of the mines they work in.
sigma999 04-12-07, 10:43 PM	Make it Chaotic Evil and give it the half-farspawn template as well, oh and the multiheaded template for +3 heads. Give it some cool spell abilities like Fleshshiver at will and Mirage Arcana. Now you're good to go! I'd seriously make that a nemesis for some campaign.
Arthalarus 04-13-07, 12:25 AM	..........mhm
Khael 04-13-07, 06:35 AM	Question... level 30? And they expect to actually beat up gods? With 9th level spells? How badly will these gods be played? (No offense, but as has been said, any D&D god worth its title should own here as the light weights are somewhere in the regions of level 40, you get to run away, and maybe even survive a short while. Seriously. Thought there is the case for 'if it has stats it can be killed', that doesn't mean the stats let any sensibly played god get killed.) And frankly? The game doesn't sound fun, even before you factor in the fact the characters have little epic-fire power. (I once took part in an epic game, where no-one had epic spells. It wasn't fun, as the few two of three fights were literally one round obliterations, and the third saw spells dealing over 500 damage to being hurled. And there was relatively little optimation being done. As other have said, starting epic doesn't make a game fun, in fact from what I've played, epic doesn't make a game fun IMNSHO. But if an over-the-top game floats yer boat, do so. As for the makes no sense on the half-balor, and half-solar, its not a case of what you think: Solars are lawful good incarnate, balors chaotic evil. If anything the present of the other hurts them, why wouldn't they wipe the other out to save them pain, at the very elast they'll probably be looking to kill the other and pass it off as enemy work (Take an angel, a being hating all evil, and posessing incredible pride in its goodiness, admit its needs a demon's help. If you can, think that was easy? Now make the balor do that. See if he doesn't set you alight for the very idea(True, balors don't exist, but you get the idea).).
Arthalarus 04-13-07, 10:51 AM	If your going to get picky about the balor and the angel working together and I KNOW all of you are, you might as well not even touch a chaotic evil character with a lawful anything. The two would not as you have stated work together because of their alignments thats STUPID, in most of the DMing I have done it doesnt matter as long as you have a common goal in mind you worry more about that than trying to kill something whos on your side that your mortal enemies and besides that people in the same group. Besides I believe I have read somewhere in one of the DM books or something that if you are in the same party you cant fight I dunno dont quote me on it. and about the level 30 thing, its their starting level they dont fight the gods right away mostly just their Avi's and other such monsters who are mixed to really get a great challenge from.
Khael 04-13-07, 12:46 PM	Yeah? Now tell a Balor and a Solar to figure out a common goal. It has little to do with alignment, and everything to do with what they are: Balors ARE chaotic evil, their entire being is formed from the very stuff of the chaotic abyss, then put though metaphorical hell just to rise to the rank of Balor (To put it simply, Balors are not born as Balors, they are promoted to the rank in special rituals.) And if you're in the same party you can fight, but the point is to not to (usually), normally by finding common ground. They're are no rules, usually because if people do, its generally a case of there is no longer a game, but in this case, it would still be a game, the two players just know what their characters would naturally try to do. Problem to play a balor alongside a solar with any degree of knowledge about the mindset one of these things would have, this means the character have to be in permanent danger, as in there is physically somthing that has made it clear it wants to kill both. Any kind of breathing space and the neverending battle of good vs evil restarts in the party. And this is because their common grounds are: something bigger wants me dead = kill it. Celestial/demon exists in close proximity=kill it. It's a coin flip on which comes first (Most likely is they'll try to use that bigger thing to kill the other) But if you must have both of these two, use a simple tactic: DM fiat, I.e. a god geas' them so they HAVE to work together to kill off other gods for this god, or they die. And whiel you still intend to have characters leveling up, it still not too good for what we know will happen: A lesser god, played properly (i.e. As you might expect of an ancient immortal being whose knowledge and power surpasses any mortal's) should wipe out a party of ECL 50. Will wipe out a party of level 100s, if you gave it any of the outright kill SDAs.
AMGriffin 04-13-07, 10:00 PM	If your going to get picky about the balor and the angel working together and I KNOW all of you are, you might as well not even touch a chaotic evil character with a lawful anything. You do realize these two beings are the very INCARNATE of alignments right? There's a helluva difference between bob the LN fighter and ned the CE rogue teaming up to get rich or something like that and a two friggin' entities that embody LAWFUL GOOD and CHAOTIC EVIL joining to kill a god or whatever it is they're doing. The two would not as you have stated work together because of their alignments thats STUPID, They wouldn't work together because they have TOTALLY different viewpoints of the world. Alignment is just there to explain their worldviews. in most of the DMing I have done it doesnt matter as long as you have a common goal in mind Yeah... because Solar Angels and Balors just have soooo much in common. :rolleyes: you worry more about that than trying to kill something whos on your side that your mortal enemies and besides that people in the same group. :confused: I think you're saying that... you're more concerned about fulfilling a goal then killing your mortal enemy... Isn't killing your mortal enemy a goal? Besides I believe I have read somewhere in one of the DM books or something that if you are in the same party you cant fight I dunno dont quote me on it. :( oops... and about the level 30 thing, its their starting level they dont fight the gods right away mostly just their Avi's and other such monsters who are mixed to really get a great challenge from. ._. I see. I'm not necessarily questioning whether or not such a game is playable... Actually, I am! It sounds like one giant fanboy actiony orgasmic explosion of super-magic.
dagman 04-13-07, 11:18 PM	Medical professional have been left questioning why do people suffer aneurysm. till now
Arthalarus 04-15-07, 03:46 PM	Has anyone who is *****ing about this idea ever taken into consideration that the DM and the players handbook are just a GUIDE not a set of stone written rules they are just there to help you along on what CAN be done not what SHOULD be done.
Journeyman Samwise 04-15-07, 03:54 PM	Except that there are mathematical justifications for why the things run the way they do. You, you're just cutting up the books and making paper dolls out of the pages. Also, can I play Kord in your game? He is half-Kord and half-Gruumsh. He weild a +awesome huge fullblade of PC-slaying.
sigma999 04-15-07, 08:50 PM	I'll join too, I want to play a male half-Orcus Nymph with Monster of Legend on top of that, and Divine Rank 0. Since we won't be using LA or ECL cuz "it's stupid" so I'll throw on both half-celestial, half-fiend, and half-dragon too. I'm considering adding Tauric: Tiamat but that might be overkill. And I'll STILL look cool. :cool:
Euclid 09-08-07, 07:00 PM	Sorry for the necro, but what's the LA for half Lady of Pain and half Pun-pun?
Einvaldurinn_mikli 09-08-07, 07:20 PM	Sorry for the necro, but what's the LA for half Lady of Pain and half Pun-pun? IT'S OVER NINE THOUSAND!!!!!
Sir_Chivalry 09-09-07, 01:03 AM	I'm sorry, but in my opinion, if you do away with the foundations of the rules in 3.5, and before even, you are definitely not playing DnD. Maybe "Super-Crazy Smash and Loot", but not Dungeons and Dragons. Plus, what God is a Solar and a Balor going to team up to kill?
Count Arioch the 28th 09-09-07, 01:18 AM	I think that D&D isn't the right system for the game you want to play, because D&D rules are in fact set in stone, and if you're not following them, you're not playing D&D. I suggest trying a more free-form system, such as Amber. I think you'd enjoy that system, there are far fewer limitations than there are in D20.
Arthalarus 09-09-07, 10:45 AM	except that the so called rules set in DnD as I have stated before are not really rules at all but more of a guideline to help people create a world others will enjoy and to answer the previous poster about the god thing. Any god as long as the two share a common dislike or mistrust for him or her plain and simple
Count Arioch the 28th 09-09-07, 12:43 PM	except that the so called rules set in DnD as I have stated before are not really rules at all but more of a guideline to help people create a world others will enjoy Why do you keep saying that when everyone tells you that you're wrong? There's no such thing as "everyone is wrong but me", you know. You're playing a free-form roleplaying system that's loosely based on D&D. You are not, in fact, playing D&D at all.
ImABanana 09-09-07, 12:58 PM	Ok, first of all, this is stupid. Absolutely ridiculous, It shows you do not know how to role play a character. A Balor is not a Devil, a Devil may team up(rather, use) with someone not of their alignment, as long as they had a common goal. A Demon would NOT. As people have said, these things are the embodiment of their alignments. This is the excerpt on Lawful Neutral Lawful Neutral, "Judge" A lawful neutral character acts as law, tradition, or a personal code directs her. Order and organization are paramount to her. She may believe in personal order and live by a code or standard, or she may believe in order for all and favor a strong, organized government. Now heres the one on Chaotic Evil.. Chaotic Evil, "Destroyer" A chaotic evil character does whatever his greed, hatred, and lust for destruction drive him to do. He is hot-tempered, vicious, arbitrarily violent, and unpredictable. If he is simply out for whatever he can get, he is ruthless and brutal. If he is committed to the spread of evil and chaos, he is even worse. Thankfully, his plans are haphazard, and any groups he joins or forms are poorly organized. Typically, chaotic evil people can be made to work together only by force, and their leader lasts only as long as he can thwart attempts to topple or assassinate him. Chaotic evil is sometimes called "demonic" because demons are the epitome of chaotic evil. Those guys sound like they'd be prettty good buddies huh?
dman11235 09-09-07, 01:22 PM	Yes, a guideline that should be followed for the enjoyment of the game. I recently played in a gestalt campaign that was meant to kill a god (tenebrous), and we got to level 23, but had a god killing artifact that got rid of all salient divine abilities and more. You know what? The races were githzerai, catfolk, mindflayer, shifter, dragonborn, rakashasa, .....and halfling. The gith and mindflayer had to get along for two reasons: one: I was exalted, and two: every god in the planes told us to. We had fun being powerful and all, but we obeyed the LA and ECL guidelines, and that made it more fun. My point: you don't need to be uber powerful to have fun. That was a powerful campaign (insane PB, gestalt, three epic levels), but no where near as powerful as yours.
Trench_Raider 09-09-07, 02:30 PM	Someone please tell me that the original poster is engaging in a semi-clever troll rather than is posting in all seriousness. This is an example of the logical progression of monster characters taken to the extreme, and is why they are strict no-go in my games. Looking over these forums I have seen far too many people proposing "half dragon, half demon celestial vampire" type characters in order to sqeeze every little bit of advantage they can from a broken character creation system. Most people who ask their DM's for permission to play moster race chaarcters are bieng munchkins rather than looking for the challenge of RPing an unusual character. It also flies in the face of tradition. As I just stated in another thread, I run my games by asking the question: WWGD? (What Would Gygax Do)? "Trench Raider"
Captain_Kobold 09-09-07, 10:33 PM	Arthalarus, perhaps if you mentioned what some of the other players are playing it would give a better idea of how the character you asked for feedback on fits in. The ECL system has two purposes: One: to aid the DM in judging challenges for the PCs. This can be pretty much ignored if the DM is good at working CR rating on the fly. The second is to ensure that the PCs are balanced against each other. A powerful creature is high LA so that when adventuring alongside a more standard race, it will not overshadow the other character. Having one character which is on a vastly different power scale than the others tends to ruin the fun of a game since the players get the impression that they cannot achieve anything since the overpowered character can do everything they can, but better. For example, in a high-epic struggle against the gods type game that has nothing whatsoever to do with anything that has been mentioned anywhere in the vicinity: One player is playing an unholy fusion of incarnate law and chaos; only made possible by the convergence of a manifestation of pure order with an embodiment of perfect chaos in a situation involving a trickster god, two dilithium-tequila benders, and a deific-level Potion of Lurrve. The DM generated the character by reading carefully through the Monsters as characters section of the rules, flinging them out of the same window that the flavor text had gone out of, and adding all the advantages together. Another player wants to play a human. A hero who has raised himself to the power at which he could challenge a god by sheer grit, determination, and awesomeness. How would the hypothetical DM in this metaphorical game handle the challenge of ensuring that both players had fun in the game, and neither overshadowed the other? He could just give them the same level and tell the player of the human character: "Tough. I know that the Abomination is far more powerful than you. Its your fault for trying to bring a mortal to a monster fight." He could slap templates and random bonuses onto the human until the resulting unrecognisable mass of numbers is of a similar power level, and in doing so make a mockery of the heroism of the mortal who would challenge the gods through his own efforts. He could take a best-guess at the ECL of the abomination and use that system to give the human a level at which the two characters would be about as powerful as each other. Or he could do something else . . . (Open to suggestions)