Post/Author/DateTime	Post
MuffintheTankytank 04-29-08, 09:11 PM	I've been around a different forums, and I've seen what people have to say about halflings. I'm kind of insulted because from what I know, halflings have the potenial to be the greatest race in the core set. Think about it, +1 ac, +1 to hit, +2 listen, climb, jump, and move silently, +4 hide, +1 on saving throws, +1 with thrown weapons and slings and +2 against fear. Sure they make good rouges, but I have proof that halflings can even make good barbarians:). My first character ever, was something I thought would be absolutely stupid, a halfling barbarian, because my friends just wanted me to try D&D, and I didn't plan on playing more than a session. But, Tasslehoff(yes it is a reference to dragonlance) kicked a lot of ass, and everyone in my group of friends was surprised at what they had witnessed. So before you bash on halflings, try them in other classes, they're really great to play as. Also, Talenta halflings need the feat Talenta warrior before they can use Talenta weapons and feats. Read the book before you assume all you need is to say your character lived in the Talenta plains.
Essex 04-30-08, 12:30 AM	I agree that Halflings make great characters, but some of their good points are either weakened or totally negated by their drawbacks. While they have a +2 to Climb checks, their Strength penalty drops it to a +1. Also, since Climb speed is based off of your normal speed, they normally have to make Climb checks every 5 feet. While they have a +2 to Jump checks, their Strength penalty drops it to a +1. Then their speed slaps another -6 onto the check, reducing the total modifier to -5.
sonofzeal 04-30-08, 02:27 AM	They're a good race, I like them. And I've helped a friend build a Half-Dragon Halfling Barbarian - you do NOT want to get on the wrong side of that guy's sling bullets. They also make pretty solid ray-specialist casters, and a lvl 5 Halfling Druid with Produce Flame (which is technically "thrown") can be terrifying. And +1 saves is one of the best class features around (imo, second only to the dwarf "+2 saves vs magic" and human bonus feat).
RobbyPants 04-30-08, 10:18 AM	Halflings can be good if you play to their strengths and try to minimize their weaknesses. Like many small races, they make good rogues and arcane casters. They can make okay melee characters, but they're not overly good at it (at least not inately). I guess I've never really heard people complain much about halflings. I guess if you don't care what your PC looks like, a goblin can do most things a halfling can do better, but not all things. The only races I've seen people consitantly complain about are half elves, elves, and half orcs.
Qube 04-30-08, 10:28 AM	IMO whispergnomes are WotC's halfling fix: - darkvision ... really rogues should have it
1 ton ghost 04-30-08, 10:36 AM	The reduced speed kills me every time. That is to say, a sneaky scoundrel is nice and they fit the bill, until detected. The AC buff at low lvl is big too, but of course, reduced dmg. Check to every +. I think the big difference I noticed was in close quarters combat, particularly urban and underdark. If I could tailor the environment or exploit all the nooks and crannies, nearly every medium size advesary was at a major disadvantage. Particularly w/ Spring Attack in play. Even weapons that would normally be restricted in alot of cramped spaces weren't an issue given small stature, and of course cramped areas usually have more cover, thusly more Hides opportunities, and more Sneak Attacks.
G_Mancer 04-30-08, 03:42 PM	I've been around a different forums, and I've seen what people have to say about halflings. I'm kind of insulted because from what I know, halflings have the potenial to be the greatest race in the core set. Think about it, +1 ac, +1 to hit, +2 listen, climb, jump, and move silently, +4 hide, +1 on saving throws, +1 with thrown weapons and slings and +2 against fear. Sure they make good rouges, but I have proof that halflings can even make good barbarians:). My first character ever, was something I thought would be absolutely stupid, a halfling barbarian, because my friends just wanted me to try D&D, and I didn't plan on playing more than a session. But, Tasslehoff(yes it is a reference to dragonlance) kicked a lot of ass, and everyone in my group of friends was surprised at what they had witnessed. So before you bash on halflings, try them in other classes, they're really great to play as. Also, Talenta halflings need the feat Talenta warrior before they can use Talenta weapons and feats. Read the book before you assume all you need is to say your character lived in the Talenta plains. First off, +1 to hit is only to offset the -2 str. you end up with same to hit, and -1 dmg. Other than that i agree with you. No love for haflings. They make insande druids and even O.K. barbarians..
MuffintheTankytank 04-30-08, 03:43 PM	They can make okay melee characters, but they're not overly good at it (at least not inately). My halfling barbarian was the second strongest in a party of tanker characters lol. He always did mass amounts of damage, and the only character I've ever made stronger, and with more "mad mojo luck" was Muffin the orc barbarian. Oh, and elves and half-orcs aren't bad races either, but I can never find a good use of half-elves. It's sort of sad.
Qube 04-30-08, 03:58 PM	The reduced speed kills me every time.IIRC whispergnomes have 30ft speed (not sure though)
1 ton ghost 04-30-08, 05:19 PM	IIRC whispergnomes have 30ft speed (not sure though) They're also poorly balanced. That is, they have so many bonuses w/ no LA. We tried implementing them along w/ Goliaths and the other questionable "new races" and low and behold, this whisper gnome starts ripping ass left and right through a multitude of encounters designed as a proving ground of sorts. Over powered. Not for me, but if dig them, so be it. Go nuts.
ciaran 05-01-08, 12:32 AM	No doubt. I'd want to play one too. (I did once). They need to either lose a couple of bonuses or gains a +1 and lose the cha penalty.
YamiShinobi 05-01-08, 11:32 PM	halflings are great with weapon finesse, a half elf halfling (dm allowing your hafling to have elven blood) allows you to qualify for champion of corellan larethan if you worship him. or for the arcane archer. (halfling stats +elven blood+CoCL+wpn finesse +2weapon fighting tree +2 shortswords +16 bab makes a pretty cheesy halfling. 6+d6 are all thats needed. CoCL 2 Swashbuckler 3 rogue 15 +daring outlaw is quite scary, Dex and Int to damage, uncanny dodge, and SA+9d6 16 or 17bab. ring of blinking makes this little guy quite scary. and it came from dm allowing you to be half elf, half halfling. you won't have much hp but you will kill the defenseless like crazy. problem is you have to be chaotic good.)
MuffintheTankytank 05-02-08, 03:31 PM	halflings are great with weapon finesse, a half elf halfling (dm allowing your hafling to have elven blood) allows you to qualify for champion of corellan larethan if you worship him. or for the arcane archer. (halfling stats +elven blood+CoCL+wpn finesse +2weapon fighting tree +2 shortswords +16 bab makes a pretty cheesy halfling. 6+d6 are all thats needed. CoCL 2 Swashbuckler 3 rogue 15 +daring outlaw is quite scary, Dex and Int to damage, uncanny dodge, and SA+9d6 16 or 17bab. ring of blinking makes this little guy quite scary. and it came from dm allowing you to be half elf, half halfling. you won't have much hp but you will kill the defenseless like crazy. problem is you have to be chaotic good.) ... :O no level adjustment either, that is scary lol
YamiShinobi 05-02-08, 04:22 PM	... :O no level adjustment either, that is scary lol it's called taking the halfling and allowing the dm to let you have a small trace of elven blood, (between 1/4 and 1/2. called a relationship between an elf and a halfling) thus granting elven blood and access to CoCL. it's called ask your dm. some guy did it with a catfolk that bought off thier L.A. this combo doesn't start with l.a. but remember to reference the elven parent like crazy.
Roguewiz 05-02-08, 05:24 PM	Out of all the races currently available from the PHB and the "Races of" books, I like Halflings, Chaos Gnomes and Whisper Gnomes the most (of the small races) My signature shows me feelings towards the small races quite well =)
Shaggy_Shaggs 05-02-08, 08:42 PM	Halflings are badass if you talk your DM into houseruling it so you get things no halfling can have and still call yourself a halfling! :rofl: Goblin > halfling for most purposes. Halflings have their place, but trying to sell them as the master race when you need Rule 0 and a heaping helping of manure to do it is just low.
MuffintheTankytank 05-03-08, 11:37 AM	Halflings are badass if you talk your DM into houseruling it so you get things no halfling can have and still call yourself a halfling! :rofl: Goblin > halfling for most purposes. Halflings have their place, but trying to sell them as the master race when you need Rule 0 and a heaping helping of manure to do it is just low. Halflings on their own, without dm buffs, ar still pretty badass and still my favourite race. And goblins aren't always better, you have to keep in consideration that civilizations look better upon halflings than they do on goblins. So if your dm has a campaign with a lot of towns and cities, chances are you're gonna wanna go with the halfling :P
Shaggy_Shaggs 05-03-08, 04:50 PM	That's why I said "most purposes" rather than "all purposes". But no, I don't use fictional racism as a reason not to play a goblin in an urban game. I can either exploit the monstrous reputation and use it as a connection to the city's dark side, use Disguise to avoid it altogether, or play it straightforward and carve out a place in the city through sheer awesomeness. Nothing against other folks wanting to play halflings, I just won't play one myself unless I get one of those weird "I wanna play an intentionally problematic character just to see if I can make it work" mood swings. But claims like YamiShinobi's are pretty ridiculous. Oooh, halflings are badass if you make them elves without the elf downsides, and give them access to the poorly thought out elf-only PrCs made by elf fanboys to try and make elves live up to Tolkien's image of them. Well duh. Everything's badass if you ignore the rules any time they're inconvenient like that.
Deuce_Wilde 05-03-08, 05:37 PM	Goblins definately make better rogues than halfings. But druids... not even close, especially with the Races of Wild substitution levels. It seems like wizards just made a blanket-statement that had all small races good at being rogues... just some are naturally better than others. I really liked how they portrayed them in Eberron... breeders, herders, ranchers, etc. No more of this kender-esque crap. Halflings have a niche, just not played up enough. Use them for it.
MuffintheTankytank 05-04-08, 12:32 AM	Oooh, halflings are badass if you make them elves without the elf downsides, and give them access to the poorly thought out elf-only PrCs made by elf fanboys to try and make elves live up to Tolkien's image of them. Well duh. Everything's badass if you ignore the rules any time they're inconvenient like that. Yeah, and that really depends on how stupid or noobish your DM is a D&D. And I don't think a simple disguise check would work to make goblins portrayable in an urban area. For that it would need a hat of disguise or a scroll or a speel caster with the disguise self spell. I have nothing against goblins/you, I just like halflings a lot better because goblins are a bit easy to exploit their strengths especially with the small type and 30' BLS.
MuffintheTankytank 05-04-08, 12:36 AM	Goblins definately make better rogues than halfings. But druids... not even close, especially with the Races of Wild substitution levels. It seems like wizards just made a blanket-statement that had all small races good at being rogues... just some are naturally better than others. I really liked how they portrayed them in Eberron... breeders, herders, ranchers, etc. No more of this kender-esque crap. Halflings have a niche, just not played up enough. Use them for it. Yes, I really enjoy the Talenta templates aswell, it really sucks how not a lot of people allow me to play one in campaigns, I've only ever been able to use one as a druid, and he didn't get to a high enough level to "have a t-rex companion, wild shape t-rex an summon more t-rexs to make a t-rex gang" that'd be awesome:P
ChaosWolf1982 05-04-08, 01:18 AM	Good characters, no. Good ammunition, yes.
Drackthor 05-04-08, 02:55 AM	it's called taking the halfling and allowing the dm to let you have a small trace of elven blood, (between 1/4 and 1/2. called a relationship between an elf and a halfling) thus granting elven blood and access to CoCL. it's called ask your dm. some guy did it with a catfolk that bought off thier L.A. this combo doesn't start with l.a. but remember to reference the elven parent like crazy. If one half of you is Elven blood, that's a hell of a lot more then a "small trace".
Shaggy_Shaggs 05-04-08, 03:08 AM	Yeah, and that really depends on how stupid or noobish your DM is a D&D. And I don't think a simple disguise check would work to make goblins portrayable in an urban area. For that it would need a hat of disguise or a scroll or a speel caster with the disguise self spell.Hat of Disguise = disguise self spell. Disguise self spell = +10 bonus on Disguise skill checks (and can be blown off by a saving throw after interaction). That's it. Nothing you can't achieve with mundane disguises. And the entire point of disguise is seeming like someone or something you aren't. Saying one small humanoid can't disguise itself as another small humanoid with the skill made to do exactly that, unless it's receiving a check modifier bonus only if that bonus comes from a specific, overly expensive and likely redundant source, is fairly silly.
MuffintheTankytank 05-04-08, 12:43 PM	Hat of Disguise = disguise self spell. Disguise self spell = +10 bonus on Disguise skill checks (and can be blown off by a saving throw after interaction). That's it. Nothing you can't achieve with mundane disguises. And the entire point of disguise is seeming like someone or something you aren't. Saying one small humanoid can't disguise itself as another small humanoid with the skill made to do exactly that, unless it's receiving a check modifier bonus only if that bonus comes from a specific, overly expensive and likely redundant source, is fairly silly. True, but a magically enhanced source for a modifier allows you to do much much more with the disguise skill, allowing you to do much more sillyness. Goblins can become something like snowmen. A regular non-magical modifier is still a niffty skill, but the only problem is that goblins aren't humanoids, they're goblinoids. I can't remember off the top of my head exactly, but I think that gives them some sort of penalty to diguise into a humanoid because their characteristics are so different...unless your trying to make it look like a midget quazimoto lol
1 ton ghost 05-04-08, 12:43 PM	To that end, I have employed these famously given racial lineage and the "when in rome" policy of most goodly human kingdoms. Firstly, the goblin rogue. I love them, swear by them. I don't have anything against haflings though, I must confess, I do find playing diminutive personas a bit confining. Not my forte. But, when you give that agent provacateur Darkvision in addition to all the goodies they have that make them nearly born and bread for subterfugue and the like, oh, it's on. Basically, retaining 30ft move and coupling that w/ Darkvision, it's like beer and wings. They compliment each other so nicely and can make sneak attacks very attractive. "Toe Cutter" (male goblin Rogue/Assassin). The Hat of Disguise was inevitably one of the first things I acquired in addition to upping Disguise ranks (thankfully, class skills). He simply played the "depressed, keeps to himself, you wouldn't want to be around him" card to help avoid a possible Will Save during illusion (Disguise Self) vs. someone that touched said Figment of "that sulking halfing over there." Being very perceptive via class skills as a rogue helps avoid a possible "what-if" as well. "Ch'tturgha" (male human [necropolitan] Wzd) was just undead. MOre of a tactical decision to stay "under the hat 24/7". Yeah, people would freak the Hell out when they saw him early on, but my concern was, "He can be Turned or Rebuked." However, you wouldn't Turn a human caster. Spot not being a Cleric's strong suit, we had zero snags and avoided trouble areas too. Now, this made gaming a little sketchy...at first, but added a nice dymanic especially in combat. Toe Cutter was a hornets' nest. Yes, had I played a halfing in lieu of a goblin, it would've been fine in terms of the social dilemma. I didn't even complain that I had to dump 1,800 gp on a technicality, not to mention burning another language slot (we don't use Common, we use regional languages, Faerun). But, this worked famously to my (group's) advantage when infiltrating mixed humanoid encampments, skulking the Underdark, etc. It's just, in downtime in a "normal city", I'd risk constantly getting stoned to death...
MuffintheTankytank 05-04-08, 12:50 PM	I did the same thing with a tiefling ninja, he knew common languages to get into cities (elven, common, dwarven) and he was awesome for getting around. He disguised himself as a guard before he met the party and arrested them :P
Shaggy_Shaggs 05-04-08, 04:33 PM	Actually, goblins are humanoids. Goblinoid is a subtype, not a type. In fact as far as type/subtype matching goes, goblin is closer to halfling than tiefling is to human. Goblin = Small Humanoid (Goblinoid) Halfling = Small Humanoid (Halfling) Tiefling = Medium Outsider (Native) Human = Medium Humanoid (Human)
MuffintheTankytank 05-04-08, 09:22 PM	Actually, goblins are humanoids. Goblinoid is a subtype, not a type. In fact as far as type/subtype matching goes, goblin is closer to halfling than tiefling is to human. Goblin = Small Humanoid (Goblinoid) Halfling = Small Humanoid (Halfling) Tiefling = Medium Outsider (Native) Human = Medium Humanoid (Human) I never said which race the guard was lol, All I used the hat for was to give him armour and elven facial features. Not all goblinoids are small,. bugbears also fall into the goblinoid category. But I didn't know racial types had subtypes so thank you for relinquishing knowledge:P
Silverthumb 05-05-08, 03:21 PM	civilizations look better upon halflings than they do on goblins Not RAW. :P
MuffintheTankytank 05-05-08, 03:49 PM	Not RAW. :P Ofcourse they do, they'd rather have their pocket's picked by something that doesn't look like a little green imp:P
Nathreet 05-05-08, 03:56 PM	The halfling's size AB/AC bonus makes them decent enough fighters. Their size helps their hide, and they have a good move silently, making them great stealthy characters. They make good fighters, wizards, rogues or anything. But the rogueness is where they really excel above most other PHB races. At fighting and wizardry they're just par.
Shaggy_Shaggs 05-05-08, 04:01 PM	Ofcourse they do, they'd rather have their pocket's picked by something that doesn't look like a little green imp:P .......... Go read. (http://goblindefensefund.org/)
MuffintheTankytank 05-05-08, 04:27 PM	.......... Go read. (http://goblindefensefund.org/) Nicely said. lol And I'm not against goblins in anyway, I'm just stating I like halflings more. Goblins can be kick ass depending on class, abilities and quorks. Like my friend's three goblin rouges: Jiblet- likes to kill, good in combat Giblet- likes to steal Niblet- makes traps and sneaks, shoots crossbows from a distance to **** the enemy of and has them run right into the trap
Shaggy_Shaggs 05-05-08, 06:32 PM	Fair enough. And it's not like halflings aren't easier to use in most (not all) highly social settings and civilized areas, they certainly are. Also DMs are more likely to be okay with halfling PCs than goblin PCs. I just get a bit irked when people houserule in extra benefits to use as alleged proof that something is especially good (like YamiShinobi's elfling) or tack on extraneous penalties to push an alternative down into irrelevance (your erroneous (now apparently just simply mistaken) claims that goblins can't use Disguise normally to pretend to be a different race, or take penalties above and beyond normal for doing so). Also, halflings can Supermount, goblins not so much.
MuffintheTankytank 05-05-08, 06:37 PM	Fair enough. And it's not like halflings aren't easier to use in most (not all) highly social settings and civilized areas, they certainly are. Also DMs are more likely to be okay with halfling PCs than goblin PCs. I just get a bit irked when people houserule in extra benefits to use as alleged proof that something is especially good (like YamiShinobi's elfling) or tack on extraneous penalties to push an alternative down into irrelevance (your erroneous (now apparently just simply mistaken) claims that goblins can't use Disguise normally to pretend to be a different race, or take penalties above and beyond normal for doing so). Also, halflings can Supermount, goblins not so much. I never really fancied house rules all that much to be honest, when me and my friends paly we don't use them. I've only ever used something similar when I had to play something good, but I wanted to make a tiefling, long story short I just made up some bs to the dm about how I can be considered good if I was raised by elves lol.
Silverthumb 05-05-08, 08:47 PM	Also, halflings can Supermount, goblins not so much. Wait, what does Supermount mean? I've played two Goblins before, and the Rogue is fun, but Ranger is my favorite, if you take the Savage Empathy and Magical Animal Companion feats to get a Worg. They make awesome mounts. Almost as fast as a horse and tons more tricks. The Goblin Ranger I made actually headed a small army of Worgs. Oh, it was so great.
Kuroimaken 05-05-08, 09:34 PM	Strangely enough, I've never played a halfling. Goblins, yes (one of the people I play with tends to compliment me while playing goblins), but no gnomes or halflings. I think the reason most people seem to prefer Goblins/Gnomes/etc. over Halflings is not just the matter of mechanics. Gnomes are often curious, and are born illusionists. Goblins (depending on setting) are inventive and sneaky. Halflings just like to stuff their faces, it's not like that trait lends itself to anything but being a joke.
MuffintheTankytank 05-05-08, 09:37 PM	The Goblin Ranger I made actually headed a small army of Worgs. Oh, it was so great. Dat's cool,was it like a group of 7-10 or a pack of 4-6? And did the DM make you roll a handle animal check to keep them in line? Or was it standard leadership? I curious enough to try this:)
MuffintheTankytank 05-05-08, 09:46 PM	I think the reason most people seem to prefer Goblins/Gnomes/etc. over Halflings is not just the matter of mechanics. Gnomes are often curious, and are born illusionists. Goblins (depending on setting) are inventive and sneaky. Halflings just like to stuff their faces, it's not like that trait lends itself to anything but being a joke. I can see your reasoning behind this, curiousity is always a fun trait to play on, and goblins do make kick ass rogues given circumstances where the DM allows you to play one. But halflings make great master throwers, and don't always "stuff their face," only the LE rogues do, and even then it brings in a pretty good gain to your stuff, and stuff is a common weakness to all PC's. Give halfling a try sometime, gnome too, they're both pretty good.
Shaggy_Shaggs 05-05-08, 10:01 PM	Wait, what does Supermount mean?See for yourself. (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=382372)
Silverthumb 05-06-08, 04:18 PM	Dat's cool,was it like a group of 7-10 or a pack of 4-6? And did the DM make you roll a handle animal check to keep them in line? Or was it standard leadership? I curious enough to try this:) Well, you'll have 1 from Ranger, 3 from Beast Heart Adept, 1 from Leadership(cohort, counts as +5 LA as per MM's statblock before extra HD), and then however many you can get with Leadership afterwards. Like I said, Worg will be +5 LA, so anything from 5 up is ok. Levels 4-1, you can just get some assorted dogs & wolves. So, without considering your Leadership score for cohorts, you'll have a pack of 5. Beast Heart Adept: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20070209a&page=4 EDIT: Monstrous Flank (Ex): At 4th level, you learn to better coordinate your attacks with your monstrous companion. When you form a flank with a companion, both you and the creature gain an additional +2 bonus on attack rolls and damage rolls against the flanked opponent. Reading this, you could surround an opponent with all of your Companion Worgs, totalling a +10 att/dam for each of you. Just an idea for a group tactic.
YamiShinobi 05-06-08, 07:52 PM	If one half of you is Elven blood, that's a hell of a lot more then a "small trace". sorry, half-elf-halflings are the easiest way tp get CoCL without being an elf. i kind of worded it wrong.it's not a subrace, it is family backstory. anyone with an elf ancestor has elven blood. though they would have all the elven weakensses. (orc paragons deal more damage to you) same with the elf touched. ( a human who has an elven grandparent but uses human stats. Elf+huamn=halfelf halfelf+human=elftouched human) (elf+halfling = halfling who qualifies for CoCL) any amount of elven blood, even a small trace is pretty potent. as many partially elven races suffer from the weaknesses of pureblood elves
MuffintheTankytank 05-06-08, 09:43 PM	Well, you'll have 1 from Ranger, 3 from Beast Heart Adept, 1 from Leadership(cohort, counts as +5 LA as per MM's statblock before extra HD), and then however many you can get with Leadership afterwards. Like I said, Worg will be +5 LA, so anything from 5 up is ok. Levels 4-1, you can just get some assorted dogs & wolves. So, without considering your Leadership score for cohorts, you'll have a pack of 5. Beast Heart Adept: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20070209a&page=4 Reading this, you could surround an opponent with all of your Companion Worgs, totalling a +10 att/dam for each of you. Just an idea for a group tactic. Dat's cool. Thanks for that, Ima use it the forst chance I get:)
Silverthumb 05-07-08, 01:14 PM	Dat's cool. Thanks for that, Ima use it the forst chance I get:) Cool. Hope you enjoy it. You aren't limited to Worgs, either. I'm considering reworking it for Owlbears, but pretty much there isn't a Magical Beast available that isn't cool.
MuffintheTankytank 05-07-08, 03:53 PM	Cool. Hope you enjoy it. You aren't limited to Worgs, either. I'm considering reworking it for Owlbears, but pretty much there isn't a Magical Beast available that isn't cool. I saw that, the owlbears blew my mind. An army of those would be a mean thing to deal with. But sadly, I don't think I'll be able to use this for a while:( Many of my friends feel the need to go back to core stuff because it's harder to play when you aren't staked out the ass (ex. green veil from the Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil in the Complete Arcane). Eventually, hopefully, I'll get to use it.