Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Kikoskia 05-16-07, 05:26 PM	Hello. I need your assistance, oh board dwellers. I am designing a campaign and I need help in making a race I have envisioned. They are a multi-armed race that, when they die, their bodies create an egg that hatches into a new member of the speicies. This means that while a person cannot truly die, each new spawning is a totally different individual. It also means their numbers are always stable and never-increasing. Their skins are also slightly thick and rubbery, leading to a slight natural armor bonus, as well as slightly tougher and more hardy. Now, I know this isn't LA +0. They will he higher and possibly have racial hitdice too. I was planning it as a monster class, as it will be an option for PCs. I simply need help in realising this and if you could help me, I'd be very gratful. Thank you. :)
Matthew77 05-16-07, 05:34 PM	Sounds like a Thi-Kreen might be suitable. They have 4 arms, a little bit of natural armor, and some extra racial bonuses. They have 2 racial hitdice and a +2 Level adjustment. They are described in the expanded psionics handbook, and maybe somewhere else as well. They are an insectile race, but you could easily make them look different if you wanted something more reptilian or mammalian. Your idea for stable population size is intriguing, but the immediate question that popped into my mind is, "what happens if an egg is destroyed before it can hatch?"
Kikoskia 05-16-07, 05:53 PM	I don't think it can be, at least that is what I would be making into effect. The Thri-kreen are interesting, yes. But a lot of what they have doesn't work for me; the feats, the +30 to jump, the poison... and I am not sure what would happen if I removed a lot of that and changed some of their modifiers.
Kikoskia 05-17-07, 05:41 AM	+2 Constitution: Thomgogs are naturally more hardy thanks to their larger size and thicker skin. -Monstrous Humanoid: Thomgogs are not subject to spells or effects that affect humanoids only, such as charm person or dominate person. -Medium Size -Base Movement Speed of 30 feet. -Darkvision out to 60 feet. -+1 natural armor: A thomgog has tough, almost leathery skin. -Multiple Limbs. -Rebirth: When a thomgog dies in any method, his body forms an egg out of its soul 2 rounds later that incubates for 1d4 days. While in this state, the egg is immune to any harm, magical or otherwise. Once the incubation period is over, the egg hatches into a new, baby thomgog with a completely new personality and no memory of it’s former life. A thomgog can only be raised or resurrected if its soul is prevented from its transformation. Racial Hit Dice: A thomgog character begins with two levels of monstrous humanoid, which provide 2d8 Hit Dice, a base attack bonus of +2 and base saving throws of fort +0, ref +0 and Will +3 Racial Skills: A Thomgog’s monstrous humanoid levels give him skill points equal to 5 x (2 + int modifier). His class skills are, Knowledge (Arcana), Listen, Sense Motive, Spellcraft and spot. Raciel Feats: A thomgog’s monstrous humanoid levels give him one feat. Automatic Languages: Common, Thomgog. Bonus Languages: Huline, Dracoid, Ancient: Thomgogs know their own tongue and native tongue, as well as being able to easily learn the languages of the more friendly races. Favored class: Monk. Level Adjustment: ? Not sure what else to add or adjust though. Advice would be welcome.
Captain_Kobold 05-17-07, 08:18 AM	OK. Not too bad. A few questions: Multiple limbs: How many? Three? Four? Six? Any natural attacks? Rebirth: What is the justification for the egg being "immune to any harm, magical or otherwise"? This is an extremely unusual property. Does the egg actually have a physical existence? The no resurrection etc is a little harsh. It means that if a thomgog dies, there really is no coming back as an effective character. Depending upon how many limbs, and how well they can be used in combat, I'd say LA +0 on top of the Racial Hit dice. If the multiple limbs give it access to many extra attacks, LA+1.
Kikoskia 05-17-07, 09:00 AM	It has four arms, all of which allow it additional attacks and access the multiweapon fighting feat. It however, has no NATURAL attacks. As for the rebirth, yes the egg is physical, yet not. One could argue that it doesn't, but it also does. It's rather complicated, but it is akin to the pheonix's form of rebirth, only it takes a lot longer. The premise is that they have no way to actually propagate the species and that their numbers are constantly stable, making a very static race. Each new incarnation of another thomgog is taught of the actions of it's previous incarnations and holds the knowledge and wisdom as a form of honoring those that came before them. You are right that the ressurection penalty is rather harsh. Perhaps it would make more sense if the character could be ressurected before the egg is hatched. Even that, however, is not an easy criteria, but there are some ressureciton spells that can ressurect very quickly, if I recall. I will think that over. So, I beleive LA +1 then o top of the hitdice. Now all that remains is to make a monster class for them - I want them to be playable at level 1, but I am not so skilled at making monster classes.
Argo 05-18-07, 12:17 AM	How 'bout this: When the egg hatches, it is an ADULT Thomgog. That way the player could just keep playing. Or, in order to resurrect the old character, they have to kill the new Thomgog.
Captain_Kobold 05-18-07, 08:47 AM	How 'bout this: When the egg hatches, it is an ADULT Thomgog. That way the player could just keep playing. Or, in order to resurrect the old character, they have to kill the new Thomgog. Even if the Thomgog matures incredibly fast, the fact that it lost all of its class levels in the rebirth process would make it tricky to use once the other players have advanced a few levels. If it retained all its class levels, there would be essentially no penalty for dying, making the capability too powerful for a standard race with any sort of sensible LA value. And how many PCs in a non-evil game would accept the situation of: "Yep, we can bring your comrade back. Just kill this child while we cast the spell." Kikoskia, if the egg has a physical existence, it should be able to be damaged or destroyed. There is practically nothing that is simply immune to everything. You can make it tough to damage, or have it so the 'soul-egg' matures on a different plane or something though. What is the origin of this race? Direct deity intervention? Were they created for a specific purpose?
Kikoskia 05-21-07, 05:31 AM	I like the 'other plane' idea, I might use that. They were originally created as servants of another race by a god that had taken favor on what he called the 'master race', which was heavily forbidden (in the setting, gods have a vow of non-interference). The gods turned on the one that had made the thomgogs and killed him for his breaking of their laws, but the thomgogs remained in servitude. It was not until the War of the Races that the thomgogs rose up and fought for their freedom with the aid of humans. The resulting war completely wiped out their master race, leaving the thomgogs free people.
snakeman830 05-21-07, 08:53 AM	You missed something in the racial stats: Monsterous humanoids have good Reflex saves as well as good Will.
fiendish_platypus 05-21-07, 09:50 AM	Why not just a Xill (MM,259-260)?
Dazzer 05-21-07, 10:45 AM	Hey, I use this guideline for my un-official multi-armed races. First, the multiple limbs template works, but eh...boring. Second, a race with multiple arms is usually naturally stronger than most. In this I'm not actually talking about strength, I'm talking about racial hitdice. 2 arms: As Normal 4 arms: 2HD - 6HD 6 arms: 4 -8HD 8 arms: 6 - 12HD Additionally, for those with more than 4 arms, they are likely large size. I made a race based upon the heroes of might and magic series Naga. 6 arms, seemingly large size. I made a large size creature, 6 arms +4 strength, +6 Dex, +4 Con, +2 Int, +2 Cha +4 Natural Armour Some minor stuff Large Size, LENGTH CREATURE, 4HD, LA +4 I realize this probably isn't 100% balanced, but I also play with the no buy downs, not that you could buy this down much before 20th level. It's very close to being balanced at any rate. Reasoning? Sure, 6 arms is alot, in the hands of a good optimizer it will surely be abused, and without giving it Hitdice or LA so high it's unplayable, the only alternative is to remove some arms. Not really my favourite option. So instead, length creature. It gains the benefits of being large size in terms of the +4 on this and that, the -4 on hide, etc... It takes up 4 squares on the battlemap, but it does not have reach. This is key in the balancing factor. In any case, I hope this helps.