Help with powerful template [Archive] - Wizards Community

Help with powerful template [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
arcanejazz
02-23-08, 04:01 PM I created a template for a game I am running, which is based on a comic I wrote.

I am not sure what the CR or LA would be, though. Any help would be appreciated.

Note: I am aware that this is a very powerful template. Its supposed to be :D Its also not meant to just be bestowed on any level 1 character that thinks its cool either. In the game, it is only given to characters in very extreme circumstances.

=====================

CHAOS WEAVER

Indistinguishable from other intelligent beings, the chaos weavers are exceedingly rare individuals with powers that may even rival the gods. The origin of the chaos weavers is long forgotten, as the gift to warp reality has been granted to those worthy over the eons.

CREATING A CHAOS WEAVER
“Chaos Weaver” is an inherited template that can be added to any living, corporeal creature with an Intelligence score of 10 or more(referred to hereafter as the base creature).

A chaos weaver uses all the base creature’s statistics and special abilities except as noted here.

Size and Type: The creature’s type changes to abberation. Do not recalculate Hit Dice, base attack bonus, or saves. Size is unchanged.

Speed: A chaos weaver that can fly (see below) has a fly speed of 60 feet with perfect maneuverability.

Armor Class: Natural armor improves by their 1 + their Intelligence modifier (if any).

Attack: A chaos weaver can make unarmed strikes that deal lethal or nonlethal damage. Further, their attacks are treated as magic weapons for the purpose of dealing damage to creatures with damage reduction.

Special Attacks: A chaos weaver retains all the special attacks of the base creature and gains the following special attack.

Magic Missile (Sp): At will, as a 10th level spellcaster.

Spell-Like Abilities: A chaos weaver with an exceptionally high Intelligence score has spell-like abilities, as indicated on the table below. The abilities are cumulative. Unless otherwise noted, an ability is usable at will. Caster level equals the creature’s HD, and the save DC is Charisma-based.

Int Abilities
16 Detect Magic, Tongues
18 Feather Fall, Jump
20 Fly, Dimension Door

Special Qualities: A chaos weaver has all the special qualities of the base creature, plus the following special qualities.

Darkvision out to 60 feet.
Immunity to poison.
Damage reduction: 10/-.
Spell resistance equal to creature’s HD + 10 (maximum 35).

Abilities: Increase from the base creature as follows: Str +2, Dex +2, Con +2, Int +2, Wis +2, Cha +2.

Skills: As class or racial HD.

Challenge Rating: ?

Alignment: As base creature.

Level Adjustment: ?

=========

Any thoughts on it would be appreciated, as well as helping me decide on a proper CR and LA. Or maybe just tell me how stupid or "overpowered" you think it is. :P Ciao!
Captain_Kobold
02-25-08, 02:50 AM As a purely eyeballing figure, I'd rate it around LA +6-7 ish, and CR of +3-4 ish.
arcanejazz
02-25-08, 05:00 AM As a purely eyeballing figure, I'd rate it around LA +6-7 ish, and CR of +3-4 ish.

Ooh, thats almost exactly what I was thinking. I actually thought +8/+5 would be appropriate, but lets see if anyone else gives any insight. The template might need changes though, because my comic wasnt written with d20 mechanics in mind, so... yeah. :D Thanks for the input though.
David
02-25-08, 08:14 AM You might want to consider making this a prestige class instead. Makes more sense to me.
strenoth
02-25-08, 08:31 AM Honestly? About +4. Nor more than that really. It's not more powerful than half-celestial.

true, they are at-will, but not incredibly powerful or anything. MM at will, and 4 HD behind the rest of the party.. so at 5th level (1HD + 4 LA), you can do 1d4+1 at will. The wizard can do 3d4+3 and has access to more powerful spells, though not at will.

yeah, no more than +4
Captain_Kobold
02-25-08, 09:53 AM true, they are at-will, but not incredibly powerful or anything. MM at will, and 4 HD behind the rest of the party.. so at 5th level (1HD + 4 LA), you can do 1d4+1 at will. The wizard can do 3d4+3 and has access to more powerful spells, though not at will.

The Magic Missile is specified as a 10th level spellcaster, so he will be throwing 5d4+5 worth of force damage at will.
The LA for the template has to assume that he will be using Dimension Door at will as a spell-like ability.
Saefal
02-25-08, 11:32 AM +3 LA no more. Magic Missle isn't that great, less damage then a warlock. Considering there are special requirements for it, that becomes a factor. A few +2's aren't worth much other then to be kinda cool. Overall half-dragons woop up on these guys but they are a bit more powerful then a drow so a +3 seems just right. I mean the biggest SLA they get is dimension door a 3rd level spell and it is level dependent at 20, by that time a Half-Celestial (which is a +4) has resurrection and many many others much higher level. Another thing that keeps there LA low is the dependent stat. They are intel based which means they are either mediocre for most classes other then ones that would already be able to do naturally what they can here. Half-Celestial or Fiend is significantly more powerful then them again lending itself to a +3. So yes, no more then a +3, really the high end of +2 but good enough for +3.
Cyrocloud
02-25-08, 01:51 PM The Magic Missile is specified as a 10th level spellcaster, so he will be throwing 5d4+5 worth of force damage at will.
The LA for the template has to assume that he will be using Dimension Door at will as a spell-like ability.

5d4+5 is only 17.5 dmg on average. A fighter with a great sword will probably be doing more damage. Honestly this template from an optimization stand point with a High LA would only make a character weaker than they normally would of been.

The insa-hit magic missle does seem a little odd for a template and so does the dr (why is it - wouldn't it make more sence to be dr/lawfull or dr/cold iron?), but I'm only realy seing a +4 LA.
wonlee76
02-25-08, 04:14 PM I'm guesstimating +4 LA... though the DR 10/- makes me a bit wary and might be just barely enough to nudge it into +5 LA territory.

As for CR, +2 or +3.

You may want to clarify the Natural Armor business. Is it your Int Score at the time you acquire the template or does the natural armor bonus increase/decrease depending on what your Int is at any given moment?
arcanejazz
02-25-08, 06:10 PM I'm guesstimating +4 LA... though the DR 10/- makes me a bit wary and might be just barely enough to nudge it into +5 LA territory.

As for CR, +2 or +3.

You may want to clarify the Natural Armor business. Is it your Int Score at the time you acquire the template or does the natural armor bonus increase/decrease depending on what your Int is at any given moment?

This seems to be the common consensus. And to answer your question, yes the Nat Armor inproves if his Int modifier increases. His shield is as powerful as his mind.

However, Im beginning to think a Prestige Class would actually be the correct idea for this. If I go that route, Ill link to the new thread here.

The insa-hit magic missle does seem a little odd for a template and so does the dr (why is it - wouldn't it make more sence to be dr/lawfull or dr/cold iron?), but I'm only realy seing a +4 LA.

Well, its a bit odd because Im converting it from a non d20 environment, my comic. There arent a bunch of spell casters running about, so the magic missile is a pure energy attack that not everyone can use. And the DR being overcome by lawful weapons or cold iron doesnt make any sense in the context of the story. In the comic, the only thing that can beat a Chaos Weaver is a more powerful Chaos Weaver (ie- one with a higher intelligence), so that's what I am trying to reflect. But in D&D there are many more types of damage, so... Hm. I actually think DR 10/Chaos would make sense. However, I am going to make this a prestige class after all, using elements of this. Thank you for your input, guys! Expect a redirect soon! :D

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
arcanejazz 02-23-08, 04:01 PM	I created a template for a game I am running, which is based on a comic I wrote. I am not sure what the CR or LA would be, though. Any help would be appreciated. Note: I am aware that this is a very powerful template. Its supposed to be :D Its also not meant to just be bestowed on any level 1 character that thinks its cool either. In the game, it is only given to characters in very extreme circumstances. ===================== CHAOS WEAVER Indistinguishable from other intelligent beings, the chaos weavers are exceedingly rare individuals with powers that may even rival the gods. The origin of the chaos weavers is long forgotten, as the gift to warp reality has been granted to those worthy over the eons. CREATING A CHAOS WEAVER “Chaos Weaver” is an inherited template that can be added to any living, corporeal creature with an Intelligence score of 10 or more(referred to hereafter as the base creature). A chaos weaver uses all the base creature’s statistics and special abilities except as noted here. Size and Type: The creature’s type changes to abberation. Do not recalculate Hit Dice, base attack bonus, or saves. Size is unchanged. Speed: A chaos weaver that can fly (see below) has a fly speed of 60 feet with perfect maneuverability. Armor Class: Natural armor improves by their 1 + their Intelligence modifier (if any). Attack: A chaos weaver can make unarmed strikes that deal lethal or nonlethal damage. Further, their attacks are treated as magic weapons for the purpose of dealing damage to creatures with damage reduction. Special Attacks: A chaos weaver retains all the special attacks of the base creature and gains the following special attack. Magic Missile (Sp): At will, as a 10th level spellcaster. Spell-Like Abilities: A chaos weaver with an exceptionally high Intelligence score has spell-like abilities, as indicated on the table below. The abilities are cumulative. Unless otherwise noted, an ability is usable at will. Caster level equals the creature’s HD, and the save DC is Charisma-based. Int Abilities 16 Detect Magic, Tongues 18 Feather Fall, Jump 20 Fly, Dimension Door Special Qualities: A chaos weaver has all the special qualities of the base creature, plus the following special qualities. Darkvision out to 60 feet. Immunity to poison. Damage reduction: 10/-. Spell resistance equal to creature’s HD + 10 (maximum 35). Abilities: Increase from the base creature as follows: Str +2, Dex +2, Con +2, Int +2, Wis +2, Cha +2. Skills: As class or racial HD. Challenge Rating: ? Alignment: As base creature. Level Adjustment: ? ========= Any thoughts on it would be appreciated, as well as helping me decide on a proper CR and LA. Or maybe just tell me how stupid or "overpowered" you think it is. :P Ciao!
Captain_Kobold 02-25-08, 02:50 AM	As a purely eyeballing figure, I'd rate it around LA +6-7 ish, and CR of +3-4 ish.
arcanejazz 02-25-08, 05:00 AM	As a purely eyeballing figure, I'd rate it around LA +6-7 ish, and CR of +3-4 ish. Ooh, thats almost exactly what I was thinking. I actually thought +8/+5 would be appropriate, but lets see if anyone else gives any insight. The template might need changes though, because my comic wasnt written with d20 mechanics in mind, so... yeah. :D Thanks for the input though.
David 02-25-08, 08:14 AM	You might want to consider making this a prestige class instead. Makes more sense to me.
strenoth 02-25-08, 08:31 AM	Honestly? About +4. Nor more than that really. It's not more powerful than half-celestial. true, they are at-will, but not incredibly powerful or anything. MM at will, and 4 HD behind the rest of the party.. so at 5th level (1HD + 4 LA), you can do 1d4+1 at will. The wizard can do 3d4+3 and has access to more powerful spells, though not at will. yeah, no more than +4
Captain_Kobold 02-25-08, 09:53 AM	true, they are at-will, but not incredibly powerful or anything. MM at will, and 4 HD behind the rest of the party.. so at 5th level (1HD + 4 LA), you can do 1d4+1 at will. The wizard can do 3d4+3 and has access to more powerful spells, though not at will. The Magic Missile is specified as a 10th level spellcaster, so he will be throwing 5d4+5 worth of force damage at will. The LA for the template has to assume that he will be using Dimension Door at will as a spell-like ability.
Saefal 02-25-08, 11:32 AM	+3 LA no more. Magic Missle isn't that great, less damage then a warlock. Considering there are special requirements for it, that becomes a factor. A few +2's aren't worth much other then to be kinda cool. Overall half-dragons woop up on these guys but they are a bit more powerful then a drow so a +3 seems just right. I mean the biggest SLA they get is dimension door a 3rd level spell and it is level dependent at 20, by that time a Half-Celestial (which is a +4) has resurrection and many many others much higher level. Another thing that keeps there LA low is the dependent stat. They are intel based which means they are either mediocre for most classes other then ones that would already be able to do naturally what they can here. Half-Celestial or Fiend is significantly more powerful then them again lending itself to a +3. So yes, no more then a +3, really the high end of +2 but good enough for +3.
Cyrocloud 02-25-08, 01:51 PM	The Magic Missile is specified as a 10th level spellcaster, so he will be throwing 5d4+5 worth of force damage at will. The LA for the template has to assume that he will be using Dimension Door at will as a spell-like ability. 5d4+5 is only 17.5 dmg on average. A fighter with a great sword will probably be doing more damage. Honestly this template from an optimization stand point with a High LA would only make a character weaker than they normally would of been. The insa-hit magic missle does seem a little odd for a template and so does the dr (why is it - wouldn't it make more sence to be dr/lawfull or dr/cold iron?), but I'm only realy seing a +4 LA.
wonlee76 02-25-08, 04:14 PM	I'm guesstimating +4 LA... though the DR 10/- makes me a bit wary and might be just barely enough to nudge it into +5 LA territory. As for CR, +2 or +3. You may want to clarify the Natural Armor business. Is it your Int Score at the time you acquire the template or does the natural armor bonus increase/decrease depending on what your Int is at any given moment?
arcanejazz 02-25-08, 06:10 PM	I'm guesstimating +4 LA... though the DR 10/- makes me a bit wary and might be just barely enough to nudge it into +5 LA territory. As for CR, +2 or +3. You may want to clarify the Natural Armor business. Is it your Int Score at the time you acquire the template or does the natural armor bonus increase/decrease depending on what your Int is at any given moment? This seems to be the common consensus. And to answer your question, yes the Nat Armor inproves if his Int modifier increases. His shield is as powerful as his mind. However, Im beginning to think a Prestige Class would actually be the correct idea for this. If I go that route, Ill link to the new thread here. The insa-hit magic missle does seem a little odd for a template and so does the dr (why is it - wouldn't it make more sence to be dr/lawfull or dr/cold iron?), but I'm only realy seing a +4 LA. Well, its a bit odd because Im converting it from a non d20 environment, my comic. There arent a bunch of spell casters running about, so the magic missile is a pure energy attack that not everyone can use. And the DR being overcome by lawful weapons or cold iron doesnt make any sense in the context of the story. In the comic, the only thing that can beat a Chaos Weaver is a more powerful Chaos Weaver (ie- one with a higher intelligence), so that's what I am trying to reflect. But in D&D there are many more types of damage, so... Hm. I actually think DR 10/Chaos would make sense. However, I am going to make this a prestige class after all, using elements of this. Thank you for your input, guys! Expect a redirect soon! :D