Post/Author/DateTime	Post
wizardofowls 09-06-07, 07:12 AM	I am interested in creating a new race for my homebrew setting. I want them to be based on spiders. However I have never created a race for 3e or 3.5 e, so I could use some help in this. There is only one unchangable rule: I need them to be LA 0, so that I can use them as a base race. I've been thinking about racial traits, and here are some ideas I have come up with, but as I said these are only ideas. Nothing is written in stone yet. Spider Climb as spell (possibly either constant or limited uses per day) Paralytic poison bite 4 arms (2nd set half strength) Possible visual bonuses because of multiple eyes (bonuses spotting secret doors like elves or spotting illusions like gnomes) Web as spell (limited uses per day) I'd love to hear your thoughts/ideas on this.
Majick 09-06-07, 10:28 AM	Spider Climb as spell (possibly either constant or limited uses per day) I would say make this into a climb speed 10ft or something (which give them a +8 racial bonus to climb as well), but you could make it so they have 8 'legs' as spiders do, and have the top 4 as 'arms' and the bottom 4 'as legs' - so the bottom 4 would always have to be in contact with the ground (in other words no boots) Paralytic poison bite Maybe something like the Thri-keens racial poison but modified to work like drow knock out poison. Maybe like DC10 + Hitdie + Con or something? 4 arms (2nd set half strength) The 4 arms would work but as D&D standard rules only 1 arm is technically full strength, the other 3 'off-hands' would be 0.5 strength Possible visual bonuses because of multiple eyes (bonuses spotting secret doors like elves or spotting illusions like gnomes) Dromites have 'compound eyes' as a racial trait and i think they just get +2 spot and search (i think) and i guess you could give this race low-light vision Web as spell (limited uses per day) For me this would depend entirely on caster level. If based on Hitdie it would still be ok though as far as i can see. Maybe 3/day? Now as far as racial ability modifiers go i'm not really sure. Definitly a bonus to dexterity, but beyond that i really don't know man... As far as racial hitdice go, i think maybe 2 or 3 levels of monstrous humanoid (like a thri-keen) and +2 level adjustement. Hope that helps
AtsuiShoto 09-06-07, 01:47 PM	I need them to be LA 0, so that I can use them as a base race. Ouch. I mean, really, ouch. That's a tough prerequisite to meet without watering down the spider abilities very, very heavily. Now, how about a racial progression? It would replace class levels as you level up, until you've realized the full potential of your race. A specific player can even take base class levels before or in between the racial levels, if wanted. That would allow for cool abilities like majick is describing, but still no LA or rcial HD. Sounds good? Otherwise, you won't be able to balance a spider race against even dwarfs without taking away from their cool "spider" abilities. 4 or 8 limbs? Not likely. A poison bite? A very mild one at best, certainly not paralytic. Web and Spiderclimb as SLAs? Maybe only 1/day each. An exoskeleton of any real worth? Nope.
wizardofowls 09-06-07, 01:56 PM	Thanks for the suggestions everyone. In my homebrew world, the world is shattered into sky islands called shards. The only way to get from shard to shard is via air ships called windriggers. My thought was that spiderfolk would make excellent windsailors with their natural climbing ability, and an extra set of hands would help them in working the rigging. I would love to use an official race, but right now I have limited resources as far as sourcebooks, and limited funds for buying them. So unless it's in one of the few books I already have, or can be found on the internet, I have to homebrew it.
AtsuiShoto 09-06-07, 02:59 PM	Would it be useful for me to design for you a race that would be almost perfect for working the rigging? I can think of some very cool spider abilities that would not make for an unbalanced race, but would make an excellent rigger.
wizardofowls 09-06-07, 03:42 PM	That would be wonderful! Thank you!
Jeweler 09-06-07, 04:01 PM	Something maybe like this: Spider Folk *give them a cool drow language based name* -2 Str, +2 Dex 30 Ft. land 20 ft climb Four arms: The Spider Folk have four arms and are effected accordingly, they do not gain the multi-weapon fighting feat for free. Four legs: The spider folk have four spindly legs that allow them to hold back rushes and carry larger amounts. They are considered to have 4 legs for carrying capacity and other bonuses from having 4 legs. Spider folk have darkvision 30 ft. and a +2 to spot and search checks. Poison Glands You have a stronger blood line from your spider side allowing your body to produce a paralytic venom in a special gland in your mouth. Prerequisites: Spider Folk race, 1st level, Con 13 Benefits: You gain a bite attack that deals an amount of damage equal to your unarmed strike damage. Three times per a day you can choose to inject the person being bitten with your poison, DC 10+HD+Con mod, the poison causes the victim to become paralyzed for 2D6 rounds as an initial effect and has no secondary effect. Spinneret Growths Your spider heritage has manifested in the form of spinnerets and the ability to create a sticky web as well as your normal appearance. Prerequisites: Spider Folk race, 1st level, Con 13 Benefits: This feat allows you to do two things, create a burst of webs that is equivalent to the spell web 3/day or you can create a rope of silk in length equal to your Con Mod*10, this rope is equivalent to silk in all ways. The spider folk can travel on her webs and webs of other spider folk without impediment. I chose 13 for con because an average spider folk, highest stat being 13, can't pick up either feat, you can change the values however you like. Also you can decide on whether you want the silk to break up after a certain amount of time, I didn't because its considered silk so. But it is your game. I hope I did something even somewhat of what you were looking for.
AtsuiShoto 09-06-07, 04:19 PM	I'm worried that 4 arms is definitely NOT a +0 LA ability. I rather like the feats, though. Pretty cool. I've gone a little more elaborate with the web spinning, mapping out rules that I think make good sense for a non-magical form of web. Rapid-firing full-blown webs just seems silly to me for anything less than a spell-like ability. Here's a first draft: -2 Str, +2 Dex, -4 Cha Small Monstrous Humanoid Base speed: 20 feet. Climb: 20 feet. Spider Feet: While not wearing anything on its feet, an arachnos may use its 6 legs to gain a variety of benefits. An arachnos need not make Climb checks to traverse a vertical or horizontal surface (even upside down) and retains its Dexterity bonus to Armor Class (if any) while climbing. An arachnos' 6 legs also grant a +4 bonus on all Balance, bull rush, and trip checks while standing or climbing. By forgoing the above benefits, an arachnos may use its legs to gain a +2 bonus to all Dexterity-based checks. Compound Eyes: Darkvision out to 60', +2 bonus to Search and Spot checks. Bite Attack: Deals 1d3 plus 0.5 Strength in piercing damage. Poison: 2 Strength damage (DC 12+Con modifier). Usable once per hour with a Bite attack that successfully deals damage. Web: Arachni pride themselves on their ability to spin excellent rope-like strands, produced by a gland in their thorax, into strong and durable webs. An arachnos can produce this substance as a swift action, up to 10 feet per round and 100 feet per 24 hour period. It is one tenth of an inch thick and has hardness 5, 1 HP per 10 feet, and a break DC of 20. An arachnos can choose between producing sticky or non-sticky strand at will. With a Dexterity check and enough time, this strand can be spun into a web similar to the effect of the Web spell. The spinning requires 20 feet of strand and 2 full minutes per 5x5 feet square of web, with a DC on the check equal to 10 plus 1 per 5x5 square. For example, to spin a 10x15 feet rectangle of web would require 120 feet of webbing, 12 minutes to complete, and a Dexterity check of 16. An arachnos may take 10 on these checks, as appropriate, or accept a +2 aid another bonus from other arachni (who may provide additional strand length), but may never take 20. The completed web functions exactly like the Web spell, but is permanent until destroyed, is not especially susceptible to fire, and does not regrow. It sustains damage according to the rules for unattended objects. Vital Exoskeleton: An arachnos' exoskeleton provides a +1 Natural Armor bonus to Armor Class, but if this thin plating is shattered, it can be lethal. If an arachnos sustains more points of lethal, non-energy damage than its constitution score in a single attack, then it must make a Fortitude save with a DC of 10 plus the damage dealt minus its constitution score, or else be instantly killed. Favored class: Rogue. Arachni find a life outside of regular society particularly to their liking Okay, now imagine a sailing ship with 40 or more of these guys aboard, under command of a natural leader (say a Human with good Charisma skills). They kill and eat the rats (rats have 2 Strength and +2 Fortitude, so they will usually be paralyzed), spin beds for themselves in the holds below, and either rig the ship themselves with their own strands, or simply bolster and repair the rigging as they climb effortlessly among it. Of course, they're pretty fragile creatures once you get past their exoskeletons, and they're difficult to armor (they aren't humanoid), so a player will have to work to protect the character in dangerous situations. I'm a bit worried about the lack of charisma, though, as that's such a cliched dump stat. It just seems right for a usually-solitary spider, though.
gullas 09-06-07, 04:25 PM	-2 Str, -2 Con, +2 Dex, -4 Cha Small Monstrous Humanoid Base speed: 20 feet. Climb: 20 feet. Spider Feet: While not wearing anything on its feet, an arachnos may use its 6 legs to gain a variety of benefits. An arachnos need not make Climb checks to traverse a vertical or horizontal surface (even upside down) and retains its Dexterity bonus to Armor Class (if any) while climbing. An arachnos' 6 legs also grant a +4 bonus on all Balance, bull rush, and trip checks while standing or climbing. By forgoing the above benefits, an arachnos may use its legs to gain a +2 bonus to all Dexterity-based checks. Compound Eyes: Darkvision out to 60', +2 bonus to Search and Spot checks. Bite Attack: Deals 1d3 plus 0.5 Strength in piercing damage. Poison: 1d4 Strength damage (DC 12). Usable once per hour with a Bite attack that successfully deals damage. Web: Arachni pride themselves on their ability to spin excellent rope-like strands, produced by a gland in their thorax, into strong and durable webs. An arachnos can produce this substance as a swift action, up to 10 feet per round and 50 feet per 24 hour period. It is one tenth of an inch thick and has hardness 5, 1 HP per 10 feet, and a break DC of 25. With a Dexterity check and enough time, this strand can be spun into a web similar to the effect of the Web spell. The spinning requires 20 feet of strand and 2 full minutes per 5x5 feet square of web, with a DC on the check equal to 10 plus 1 per 5x5 square. For example, to spin a 10x15 feet rectangle of web would require 120 feet of webbing, 12 minutes to complete, and a Dexterity check of 16. An arachnos may take 10 on these checks, as appropriate, or accept a +2 aid another bonus from other arachni (who may provide additional strand length), but may never take 20. The completed web functions exactly like the Web spell, but is permanent until destroyed. Vital Exoskeleton: An arachnos' exoskeleton provides a +1 Natural Armor bonus to Armor Class, but if this thin plating is shattered, it can be lethal. If an arachnos sustains more points of lethal, non-energy damage than its constitution score in a single attack, then it must make a Fortitude save with a DC of 10 plus the damage dealt minus its constitution score, or else be instantly killed. Favored class: Rogue. Arachni find a life outside of regular society particularly to their liking really like this:) , many cool abilitys for the cost of unfair stats:)
ToastedAmphibian 09-06-07, 04:58 PM	really like this:) , many cool abilitys for the cost of unfair stats:) Dont forget the increased chance of death from massive damage. With a favored class of rogue, fortitude inst likly to be there best save, and there con is likly to be failry low. At mid and higher levels, combat becomes very dangerous. A single crit is likley to be fatal even in the high teens. Fortunatly the rogues light armor requierment will help offset the cost of barding. A lvl 15 Archnos rogue has a base fort save of +5. With a con of 12, 14 before racial adjustments, it goes up to +6. A lvl 1 half-orc fighter with 20 str rolls a 20 on his attack roll with a scythe. If he rolls half damage, 4, he deals (4+7)x4 dmg. Obviously the archnos dies. (54 dc con save) Even if he just rolls max damage on a hit, 8+7=15, he has a very good chance of killing the Archnos out right. (DC 25 Fortitude save, Archnos must roll a 19 or 20) My bad, gotta subtract his con score. Makes the DC 13. Gives him about a 1/3 chance of dieing from teh hit instead of a 9/10 chance of dieing. Still, 3 charging lvl 1 orcs should not pose a signifigant threat of death for a lvl 15 char right?
AtsuiShoto 09-06-07, 05:01 PM	Yep, this race is like the Kobold: you may want to think twice about taking it into combat, unless you've got a good protection plan in place. I'm thinking about removing the Con penalty, actually... hmm...
ToastedAmphibian 09-06-07, 05:37 PM	And hope you never meet a hulking hurler...... Or fall off the mast in poor weather. Look out for crossbows!
AtsuiShoto 09-06-07, 05:57 PM	Well, falling off the mast in poor weather is dang near impossible for these things. As for the paltry massive damage threshold, you'll just have to avoid taking 20+ damage at a shot! Notice, you get +3 to your AC at start: +2 Dex, +1 NA, and +1 size modifier. The extra cost of barding isn't such a huge deal, as the best classes for this race won't even be using armor. I figured the *smoosh* mechanic was a good, long-lasting way to offset the web spinning ability. After all, the utility of having an unlimited amount of web strands lasts forever. The ability modifiers eventually get eclipsed. Just imagine this race as a Wizard or Druid. THAT could be powerful.
ToastedAmphibian 09-06-07, 06:50 PM	Heh, what LA0 creature withought soem kind of int or wisdom penalty couldnt make a powerfull wizard or druid :} I can see these guys spending alot of time scurrying up walls and acrosst ceiling desperatly trying to avoid getting hit :} Does seem amusing though. Definetly re-enforces teh class cannon mechanic that wizards normally have. Seems like sonic damge should crack teh shell too...
Empirate 09-07-07, 10:52 AM	I really like the idea of taking Feats to get somewhere. Poison and webspinning ability make good Feat material. I think you could do something like giving them a racial bonus to Climb checks, and making available a Feat to grant them a Climb speed of 15'. This Feat could be prereq for another that grants them Spider Climb as an Ex ability, usable 1min/level/day, and this in turn could be prereq for unlimited Spider Climb as an Ex ability. So for three Feats (quite a lot), you get Spider Climb. Another tree could be like this: In the beginning, your two pairs of extra limbs only provide bonuses to climb and balance, as well as dwarf-like stability. For a Feat, you could use an extra pair of limbs as arms, giving you two pairs of arms for a lot of purposes, but not for fighting. Skill bonuses would increase, and you'd always have a hand or two free. Another Feat could grant the ability to fight with this extra pair of arms. After this, you could take multiattack or multiweapon fighting. OK, I'll give it a try: Arachne (Small Monstrous Humanoid) -2 Str, +2 Dex, -2 Cha +1 NA Land speed: 20' Low-Light vision Racial Skill bonuses: +2 Spot, +2 Search, +4 Climb, +4 Balance, +2 Use Rope. Climb is based on Dex instead of Str for Arachne characters. Natural Attack: Bite (1d3+0.5 Str modifier damage, piercing, secondary attack at -5 penalty) Stability: +4 bonus to resist being tripped, bull-rushed etc. +2 racial bonus to saving throws against poison. Webbing Glands (Ex): You can produce spider webbing. You can cover up to 10' square per day doing nothing else, or produce a web of similar proportions. You can also produce a sticky rope of 50' length per hour, in addition to the webbing (treat as silk rope). Webbing makes the ground sticky or produces sticky webs; treat this as difficult terrain (movement cut in half). Two layers of Webbing provide cover and concealment; four layers provide total cover and total concealment. You are not hindered by your own Webbing. You gain Tremorsense with regard to the area covered by your Webbing whenever you touch it. Webbing has 5 HP and Hardness 2 for every 5' square. Webbing and Rope produced in this way are flammable (see the Web spell). Webbing and Ropes perish after 1 month. Molting: On attaining 1st level, and every four levels thereafter, the Arachne molts, shedding it's skin for a new, thicker one. It's NA bonus increases by +1 (the 1st level benefit is included in the above), and it gains one Arachne Feat for free (choose one at 1st level). Arachne Feats can be taken at other times that the character is allowed to choose a Feat, but require another Molting cycle that does not increase NA. Molting takes one week, in which the character cannot do anything else and is very weak. It reduces the Arachne's NA bonus to -2 for the duration; after molting, NA increases by +1 every day until it reaches it's momentary maximum. Molting can be delayed by up to one month, but will start of it's own after that; only putting the Arachne into Temporal Stasis or something similar can prevent this. Favored Class: Rogue Arachne Feats: Spider Eyes Prerequisite: Spot 2 ranks Benefit: Increase the Bonuses to Search and Spot to +4 each. You also cannot be flanked anymore due to all-round vision. Stirring in the Web Prerequisite: Spider Eyes, Spot 5 ranks, Listen 5 ranks Benefit: You gain Tremorsense (30' radius) Spidy Sense Prerequisite: Spider Eyes, Stirring in the Web, Spot 10 ranks, Listen 10 ranks Benefit: You gain Blindsight (30' radius). Your Tremorsense radius increases to 60'. Sticky Attack Prerequisite: Use Rope 5 ranks Benefit: You can make a single attack as a full-round action with a glob of webbing stuck to a strand of Spidersilk Rope from your glands. Treat this as an attack with a Tanglefoot Bag. You are considered proficient with the Sticky Attack. You can only use this attack once per encounter. This is an Ex ability. Webcaster Prerequisite: Sticky Attack Benefit: As a standard action, you can make an attack with a sticky Net of Webbing from your glands. Treat this as an attack with a Net, with which you are considered proficient for this purpose. You can use this attack up to 1/day for every 2 HD you have. This is an Ex ability. Venomous Spittle Benefit: Once per day, as a standard action, you can coat a weapon in venom by licking it (DC 10 + your Con mod + 0.5/HD; 1d3 Str/1d3 Str). Arachnes are immune to their own venom. Venomous Bite Prerequisite: venomous Spittle, Base Attack bonus +2 Benefit: Your bite is venomous. Up to 1/hour you can make a bite attack that delivers your venom. You can also coat your weapon in venom 1/hour instead. Virulent Arachne Venom Prerequisite: Venomous Spittle, Base Fort Save +3 Benefit: Your venom becomes more virulent (DC as above; 1d6 Str/1d6 Str) Venom Sac Prerequisite: Venomous Spittle Benefit: You gain a Sac in the back of your mouth that can hold up to 1 dose of venom for every 2 points of Con you have. The venom is refilled as normal (1 dose/day with Venomous Spittle, 1 dose/hour with Venomous Bite). If the sac contains at least three doses of venom, you can empty it all in one licking/bite, increasing the save DC by 2 and doing double venom damage (primary and secondary). Strong Climber Prerequisite: Climb 4 ranks Benefit: You get a Climb speed of 15'. Your racial bonus to Climb checks increases to +8, and you can always take 10 on the check. You don't lose your Dex bonus to AC when climbing. Sticky Hands Prerequisite: Strong Climber Benefit: Your Climb speed increases to 30'. You can secrete sticky goo from glands in your hands and feet, giving you the ability to Spider Climb as an Ex ability 1 min per level/day. You can also Spider Climb your own Webbing. As long as you're Spider Climbing, your stability bonus increases to +8, and you receive a similar bonus to resist being disarmed. Wallrunner Prerequisite: Strong Climber, Sticky Hands Benefit: You can Spider Climb as an Ex ability at will. Extra Arms Benefit: Your secondary arms become stronger. You gain a +2 bonus to Climb and Use Rope checks and all Craft skill checks. You can also use your extra hands to hold stuff while your main hands do something else. This allows you to switch weapons, spell components and the like that you hold ready in your secondary hands as a free action. It also provides a +2 bonus to all grapple checks. Strong Extra Arms Prerequisite: Extra Arms Benefit: Your second pair of arms is no longer considered secondary. You can use it to attack (as off-hand attacks) or cast spells (you do not gain additional actions/round, though!). You now qualify for the Multiattack and Multiweapon Fighting Feats. The following Feats are also considered Arachne Feats and can be aquired through molting, as long as any prerequisites are met: Alertness, Weapon Focus (Bite, Unarmed Strike), Weapon Finesse, Multiattack, Multiweapon Fighting, Combat Reflexes, Skill Focus (any skill to which the Arachne gets a racial bonus), Lightning Reflexes, all Feats related to venom attacks. The following Arachne Feats are considered Fighter Feats: Sticky Attack, Webcaster, Venomous Bite, Strong Extra Arms
ToastedAmphibian 09-07-07, 05:05 PM	How the hell is that a HUMANOID Monstrous Humanoid mabey
AtsuiShoto 09-07-07, 05:32 PM	I can't imagine a Humanoid spiderfolk. It's just.. bland! You pretty much can't have an exoskeleton, or multiple non-humanoid limbs, or spinnerettes, or... anything cool! :P For the role assigned to these guys in wizardofowls' campaign, I like my race the best so far. For a normal PC that I would love to play at any level, I REALLY like Empirate's Arachne. I don't think it's actually a Humanoid, but oh well, I still like the heck out of it.
ToastedAmphibian 09-07-07, 06:12 PM	I can't imagine a Humanoid spiderfolk. It's just.. bland! You pretty much can't have an exoskeleton, or multiple non-humanoid limbs, or spinnerettes, or... anything cool! :P For the role assigned to these guys in wizardofowls' campaign, I like my race the best so far. For a normal PC that I would love to play at any level, I REALLY like Empirate's Arachne. I don't think it's actually a Humanoid, but oh well, I still like the heck out of it. Agreed on all acounts
Stunibu 09-08-07, 12:04 AM	Sticky Hands Prerequisite: Strong Climber Benefit: Your Climb speed increases to 30'. You can secrete sticky goo from glands in your hands and feet, giving you the ability to Spider Climb as an Ex ability 1 min per level/day. You can also Spider Climb your own Webbing. As long as you're Spider Climbing, your stability bonus increases to +8. If their hands have sticky goo then it should be harder to disarm them!
ToastedAmphibian 09-08-07, 12:18 AM	If their hands have sticky goo then it should be harder to disarm them! And drinking a potion should be a full round action! And getting into there pack should be impossible! Removing a sheild should be an escape artist check!
Empirate 09-08-07, 06:10 AM	I had the Arachne be a Monstrous Humanoid, but I decided against it for balance reasons. MH is quite advantageous, as you're immune to quite a lot of spells and stuff. The only thing you lose out on is Enlarge Person, but you're immune to Charm Person, Dominate, Hold Person... quite good, especially at low levels. I also thought Troglodytes and Kobolds are Humanoids, as are Gnolls, so maybe a spidery humanoid isn't out there. You're probably right, though. Monstrous Humanoid it is. EDITed in the above post.
Angel Black 09-08-07, 04:50 PM	The Karolus Dex +2 Str -2 Wis -2 Medium size Humanoid Darkvision 60 Can throw webs as a Medium Monstrous Spider (1/day first level,and once more per each four levels) Poisoned bite as a Medium sized Monstrous spider. +2 to Climb, Hide, and Spot Extra Spider Invocation slot that can be filled with either Spiderwalk, or See the Unseen.This invocation can be cast by non Warlock Karolus ,but they don't last 24 hours: Duration changes to "as many minutes as character levels divided by three plus one" Instead of strength use dexterity on climb checks. Favored Class: Warlock