| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
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| Red_Wizards_Rock12-27-07, 05:21 PM | I have a player who wants to play Venom. This is what I've put together for my player so far just wanted to get some opinions from anyone who has read comics. I've used Website Info on all of this stuff to get an idea, but anyone who can come up with anything else please add. Thx! Type Aberration str +10 dex +4 con +2 Natural AC +3 Web 8/d Spiderclimb always on Heals at Double Normal Rate per day Move Silently +4 Hide +4 Jump +6 Spot +8 Alertness Double Damage Sonic and Fire on failed save LA: +1 maybe +2 |
| calronmoonflower12-27-07, 09:56 PM | Venom would work best as a symbiont. I remember them from Eberron. The effect of such a creature would be to increase the physical ability scores of the host in exchange for adding depravity (metal taint from Heroes of Horror). |
| Rinian212-27-07, 09:58 PM | I've always liked Venom - well, except for his habit of eating brains. I vaguely recall that the symbiote enhances the wearer's natural strength - the stronger Eddie was, the stronger the suit would make him - but I have no idea how the mechanics of that would work in the d20 system. I'd give it a climb speed because that way it could run on walls and ceilings as well. Maybe another type of movement regarding the webswinging thing; perhaps one of the daily uses of the Web ability could allow access to the Spring Attack feat for something similar. Also, the suit can change its colours almost instantly so +4 to Hide probably isn't enough. The suit also changes the... location of the person inside it - I remember a comic where Vemon's mouth was open way too wide and Eddie's head should've been visible but wasn't. To demonstrate this perhaps a level of Fortification. Cheers. |
| Red_Wizards_Rock12-27-07, 10:51 PM | This is going to be a lvl 1-5 starting game so I'm trying to give him what he wants, but I'm drawing blanks on how to do it. So far it's looking like this, and it is a symbiote still. Type Aberration str +10 dex +4 con +2 Natural AC +3 Web 8/hour (Double Full Movement) Spiderclimb (Full Movement) always on Heals at Double Normal Rate per day Move Silently +4 Hide +4 Jump +6 Spot +8 Alertness Double Damage Sonic and Fire on failed save LA: +1 maybe +2 Maybe some other options: Change the Natural AC to a Dodge Bonus Give it 25% Fortification I'd still like some ideas I'm trying to keep this at +3 LA at the max. |
| togapika12-27-07, 11:20 PM | Why not try making it a class or something? The more levels he gets, the more powerful he becomes; but he also becomes more Dependant on the symbiote. |
| Red_Wizards_Rock12-28-07, 12:29 AM | Why not try making it a class or something? The more levels he gets, the more powerful he becomes; but he also becomes more Dependant on the symbiote. This is a two races joining together. Class is a job, and there are to many classes already |
| jradd77712-28-07, 07:12 AM | I give props to the Symbiont idea, that's a great direction to go for this concept. ... as for the template... with what you've got down, there are a few blanks that would have to be filled to determine whether you can keep this a +3 or lower, such as, do they get all the aberration type traits (which would = some immunities etc.)? Net +16 to stats (not to mention that the +Dex and natural armor results in a net +5 to AC) and net +22 to skills (and all very useful ones) + a feat (not a great one but a feat nonetheless) and two spells? Double damage only on a failed save, not any other time? |
| Eerongal12-28-07, 09:20 AM | Give the template an alternate form ability, kind of like lycanthrope. When in alternate form, maybe make the character gain the ooze subtype but only gaining partial fortification instead of immunity, as well as shifting around some of the abilities. |
| 1 ton ghost12-28-07, 12:18 PM | i know it's a "skin" per se, ala symbiot, but truth be told, wouldn't it kinda' fit into the Far Spawn dept (Lords of Madness)? outer space and all that. and God did they butcher the 3rd film too... |
| InkBlot12-28-07, 12:49 PM | Venom is a cursed sentient psychoactive skin. |
| Red_Wizards_Rock12-28-07, 02:30 PM | Think this is what I'm gonna finish out with I compared it to half-dragon and looks equal enough to me without taking anything away from Venom. Yes the third movie was butchered. Type -Aberration Movement -Webslinging (Double Normal Movement) Armor Class -Natural +4 Full Attack -Primary Claws (Same as Half-Dragon) -Secondary Bite (Same as Half-Dragon) Special Attacks -Web 4/hour save DC 10+Half HD+Con Mod (60ft Line) (Can be used once per 1d4 rounds) -Web Spray uses up two of your webs per hour (30ft cone) (Can be used once per 1d4 rounds) -Spiderclimb (Full Movement) Special Qualities -Immune to Sleep and Paralysis effects -Darkvision 60ft -Lowlight Vision -Heals at Double Normal Rate per day -Shapeshifting (Suit on and off) -Double Damage against Sonic on failed saving throw Abilities -Str +8 -Dex +4 -Con +2 Skills -Hide +4 -Jump +4 -Spot +4 Feats -Alertness LA +3 If you have an LA opinion please suggest. |
| Airos12-29-07, 07:16 AM | I vaguely recall that the symbiote enhances the wearer's natural strength - the stronger Eddie was, the stronger the suit would make him - but I have no idea how the mechanics of that would work in the d20 system. I would think it would be easy. A static bonus to the stat. If the host has a 16 str, then a +8 to that score makes it a 24 str. Every 4 levels the host has the option of increasing the str score by 1. As the host becomes stronger, even though the bonus remains the same, the strength continues to increase. Also, the suit can change its colours almost instantly so +4 to Hide probably isn't enough. This can be handled by the use of the spell Disguise Self. When in "human" form, at least in the early comics, the suit could mimic any outfit Eddy imagined. He still looked like Eddy Brock, but he could blend into a crowd by "changing" outfits every 30 seconds. This is a two races joining together. Class is a job, and there are to many classes already Take a look at Savage Species. There's an entire chapter for races as classes. You can't take levels in another class until you complete the monster class. It's an option to allow players to play races with an ECL at 1st level. The skill profession is a job. A class is a way of defining character identity. 20th level monk turns you into an outsider with the [native] subtype. 10th level dragon disciple adds the [dragon] subtype. There's.... some ooze one, and I think there's a undead one too. Think this is what I'm gonna finish out with I compared it to half-dragon and looks equal enough to me without taking anything away from Venom. Yes the third movie was butchered. I'm going to take this one piece at a time. Type -Aberration Looking at the features and traits of the aberration type, this doesn't really add anything to a template. Half-dragon benefits from the Draconomocon while Aberrations benefit from Lords of Madness. Equal enough for me. Movement -Webslinging (Double Normal Movement) Does this count against the 4 times per hour use of the web ability? As it stands a "human" can only websling for 240 feet per hour, (480 on a double move), and it's highly unlikely it can be done on consecutive rounds with the 1d4 round waiting period. If this doesn't, then how many times per day can this be used? What's the range? (i.e. how far away can something be to attach a web to for swinging from it?) See other concerns below under "web" Armor Class -Natural +4 Seems good... Full Attack -Primary Claws (Same as Half-Dragon) -Secondary Bite (Same as Half-Dragon) Seems good... Special Attacks -Web 4/hour save DC 10+Half HD+Con Mod (60ft Line) (Can be used once per 1d4 rounds) -Web Spray uses up two of your webs per hour (30ft cone) (Can be used once per 1d4 rounds) -Spiderclimb (Full Movement) The web, web spray and webslinging really should should include a drawback for exceeding a certain number of uses per day, as well as an upper limit to how many times per day they can be used per day period. For those of you that didn't get a chance to read it, in the comics Spiderman defeats the suit by webswinging back and forth across NY until the suit runs low on "web", weakening it. Spiderman pulls the same trick in Amazing Spiderman #300 to beat Venom for the first time, since Eddy didn't know about the limits of the suit yet. I would say including something like you can't travel more than 2 or 3 miles per day webslinging before "running dry". With the Web/Web Spray I'm really not sure. Thinking in the context of D&D 10 or 20 times per day would almost be the same as unlimited times per day, while thinking in the context of the comics anything less wouldn't be "true" to the character. Special Qualities -Immune to Sleep and Paralysis effects -Darkvision 60ft -Lowlight Vision -Heals at Double Normal Rate per day -Shapeshifting (Suit on and off) -Double Damage against Sonic on failed saving throw Vulnerabilities don't work that way. Vulnerability to Energy: Some creatures have vulnerability to a certain kind of energy effect (typically either cold or fire). Such a creature takes half again as much (+50%) damage as normal from the effect, regardless of whether a saving throw is allowed, or if the save is a success or failure. (emphasis mine) Abilities -Str +8 -Dex +4 -Con +2 Seems good... Skills -Hide +4 -Jump +4 -Spot +4 Feats -Alertness I don't get why there's a bonus to spot as well as the Alertness feat. A +6 seems a little much. Just as you feel that a class is a job, I believe a feat represents training to some degree, while a bonus to a skill represents innate ability. I would pick either the skill bonuses or the feat. Granting both seems redundant. LA +3 If you have an LA opinion please suggest. I'm thinking a +4. It looks better than half-dragon. Half Dragon "venom" template Score Type [dragon] sub-type Aberration super-type Equal Movement Large or greater only Any size "venom" AC +4 natural Same Equal Weapons claw/claw/bite Same Equal Special Attacks Breath Weapon 1 time/day Web 4 times/hour "venom" Web Spray 2 times/hour "venom" Spiderclimb Unlimited "venom" Special Qualities Immune to Sleep and Paralysis effects Same Equal Darkvision 60ft Same Equal Lowlight Vision Same Equal Heals at Double Normal Rate per day "venom" Shapeshifting (Suit on and off) "venom" Double Damage against Sonic on failed saving throw (drawback) Abilities Total of +14 to 4 stats Total of +14 to 3 stats Equal? Skills None Total of +12 to 3 skills "venom" Feats None Alertness "venom" It gives more than the half-dragon template. Even though the stat bonuses are the "same", I think it's better to give a few big bonuses than a lot of small bonuses. I'd rather +12 in one stat than +2 in all 6. The biggest problem is that there's only one drawback. You take double damage if you fail a save against a sonic attack. There are very few spells or spell like abilities that actually do sonic damage, though, since almost nothing has either resistance or vulnerability to it. It's practically unstoppable damage in D&D, therefore it's limited to a handful of low-level spells. The "suit" in the comics had it's own intelligence, alignment and agenda. This should be handled like an intelligent magic item. The host should have to make a will save against the ego score of the "suit". Spiderman made his save, while Brock willingly failed his. Once they became a single entity, it would be fatal if Brock were to be separated from the suit. Does the same hold true here? Are any of the above abilities (EX) or (SU)? What happens inside an Anti-Magic Aura? So far that's my take on how it's been presented. Too low a LA and not enough details filled out. |
| Red_Wizards_Rock12-29-07, 09:48 AM | The Webslinging I'm going to let him do unlimited it's just not combat webbing as in not strong enough to hold someone. Than I'll fix whatever I need to while we play Type -Aberration Movement -Webslinging (Double Normal Movement) (Does not count against Daily use of webbing) (Not strong enough to hold a target) -Spiderclimb (Full Movement) Armor Class -Natural +4 Full Attack -Primary Claws (Same as Half-Dragon) -Secondary Bite (Same as Half-Dragon) Special Attacks -Web 8/hour save DC 10+Half HD+Con Mod (60ft Line) (Can be used once every 1d4 rnds) --Cocoon (Must be within 10ft and grappled with the web) (As per grapple) ---Medium or smaller = 1 use of your webs per hour ---Large = 2 use of your webs per hour -Web Spray = 4 use of your webs per hour (30ft cone) (Can be used once every 1d4 rnds) Special Qualities -Darkvision 60ft -Lowlight Vision -Heals at Double Normal Rate per day -Double Damage against Sonic on failed saving throw -Shifting (Clothes only) Abilities -Str +8 -Dex +4 -Con +2 Skills -Hide +4 -Jump +4 -Move Silently +4 LA +3 |
| Airos12-29-07, 12:27 PM | I still think there's a lot of problems with this template, but it looks to me like you'll have to learn about them as they arise in your game. You're giving him unlimited webslinging. This is one of the weaknesses Venom has. Spiderman can just go back to his chemistry lab and cook up all the "webbing" he needs. Venom has to ration his out since it's in limited supply. For all purposes it is the suit itself Venom "slings". You have increased the number of times per hour the web attacks can be used. My concern was the limit per day for the same reason as the webslinging. It continues to be unlimited, and now includes a ranged grapple attack. This opens up a brand new can of worms. Does the PC make a ranged attack or a grapple check? Does this provoke an attack of opportunity if anyone is in reach? What strength score does the web use when making opposed grapple checks against the opponent? What's the DC to break free with a strength check? You now call the ability to mimic different suits of clothing "shifting". How does this work? Is it the same as the Glammered property of magical armor? Does it work as the spell Disguise Self but limited only to the suit itself and its appearance? Is it an illusion that can be "disbelieved" with a will save? If the clothing is interacted with does it "feel" like clothing, or does it feel like the suit? Does it grant any bonuses to the Disguise skill? What happens when a piece of clothing is "removed"? Does it revert? Does it fall into a limp pile of webbing? You still list the vulnerability to sonic damage as double on a failed save. If you have a reason for this I'm actually interested in hearing it. In my opinion this weakness isn't going to make much of a difference since there's so few spells with the [sonic] descriptor. How many spellcasters are going to be fighting against the player with this small handful of spells prepared? I think you also need to consider that one of the better [sonic] spells, Orb of Sound, (found in Spell Compendium, Tome and Blood and probably a couple other source books I don't know about), doesn't even allow a save. It's a flat out ranged touch attack. This spell, which is a flat out orb of pure sonic energy, will never harm the PC any more or less than normal. This is a list of the PHB spells that have the sonic descriptor, what spell level they are and what spell list(s) they appear on: Spell Name Class/Level Short Description Animal Trance Brd 2, Drd 2 Fascinates 2d6 HD of animals. Blasphemy Clr 7, Evil 7 Kills, paralyzes, weakens, or dazes nonevil subjects. Dictum Clr 7, Law 7 Kills, paralyzes, slows, or deafens nonlawful subjects. Enthrall Brd 2, Clr 2 Captivates all within 100 ft. + 10 ft./level. Holy Word Clr 7, Good 7 V Kills, paralyzes, blinds, or deafens nongood subjects. Shatter Brd 2, Chaos 2, Clr 2, Destruction 2, Sor/Wiz 2 Sonic vibration damages objects or crystalline creatures. Shout Brd 4, Sor/Wiz 4 Deafens all within cone and deals 5d6 sonic damage. Shout, Greater Brd 6, Sor/Wiz 8 Devastating yell deals 10d6 sonic damage; stuns creatures, damages objects. Song of Discord Brd 5 Forces targets to attack each other. Sound Burst Brd 2, Clr 2 Deals 1d8 sonic damage to subjects; may stun them. Sympathetic Vibration Brd 6 Deals 2d10 damage/round to freestanding structure. Wail of the Banshee Death 9, Sor/Wiz 9 Kills one creature/level. Word of Chaos Chaos 7, Clr 7 Kills, confuses, stuns, or deafens nonchaotic subjects. Animal Trance - Only targets animals or magical beasts with an Int of 1 or 2. Won't have an effect on our PC since he or she is an aberration with an Int of at least 3 Blasphemy - Various effects based on the HD of the target compared to the HD of the caster. Won't have a greater effect on our PC since none of the effects deal HP damage. Dictum - See Blasphemy Enthrall - Captivates creatures. Won't have a greater effect on our PC since none of the effects deal HP damage. Holy Word - See Blasphemy Shatter - Sonic vibration damages objects or crystalline creatures. Ah ha! Sonic damage! Wait... objects or crystalline creatures... Under a house rule yes, otherwise wouldn't do a thing at all. Shout - Deafens all within cone and deals 5d6 sonic damage. Bingo! Sonic damage to any creature and a save. Shout, Greater - More powerful Shout Same as shout. Song of Discord - Forces targets to attack each other. Again, no damage = no extra effect Sound Burst - Deals 1d8 sonic damage to subjects; may stun them. Another winner! Oh, wait no... the save is only to avoid being stunned. There's no save against the damage for our PC to fail. It's a flat 1d8. Sympathetic Vibration - Deals 2d10 damage/round to freestanding structure. Does not deal damage to creatures. Period. Wail of the Banshee - Kills things dead. There is a save. If the PC fails does he double die? (Psst.. the answer is "no") Word of Chaos - See Blasphemy So.... out of 13 spells only 3 can actually deal damage to our PC. 4 if you make a house rule. Of the 3 only 2 actually allow for a save. 2 And this is why I'm so interested in hearing your opinion as to why it should be double damage on a failed save, instead of working like every other vulnerability. How many times is the PC going to fail a save against those 2 specific spells? Bards they learn the Shout spells at levels 10 and 16 respectively. Sorcerers at levels 8 and 16, Wizards at 7 and 15. Sorcerers and Wizards can't even learn Sound Burst. That's Bards and Clerics. Of course, there's no save for the PC to fail, but still... it's the only weapon Clerics get against this PC. I'm sorry. This weakness is only "weak" in the sense that it's never going to come up. When/if it does, it's a flip of a die as to if it even works. By higher levels, (Shout is a fort save BTW), the PC will have no problem making the save. +4 to hit and damage and all str based skills, (of which jump is one) +6 to AC, +2 to all dex based skills, (there's 9, of which hide and move silently are two) +2 to reflex saves +1 HP/lvl +1 Fort saves, +4 to 3 useful skills, (not counting the stat bonuses. +4 from strength makes this a +8 to jump, +2 from dexterity make hide and move silently +6) double (land?) movement speed as long as there's something to swing from unlimited 2nd level spell (Spider Climb) unlimited ranged grapples (cocoon) unlimited ranged trip (web) unlimited ranged entanglement (web spray) unlimited disguise (shifting) darkvision low-light vision double natural healing natural weapons (no disarm or sunder)... There's no way this is LA +3 in my opinion. This is at least a +4 as it's written... closer to a +5. You'll need some real drawbacks/restrictions to keep it in the realm of +4, and something serious to bring it down to a +3. It's far too good for a trade of only 3 levels. Casters don't like to loose levels, but nothing here helps a caster. Fighters and Rouges don't mind so much only getting to level 17. This offers them far more for their money than levels 18-20 would, and they get it all up front. That's my opinion, for what it's worth. Do with it what you will. :tiphat: |
| Prime3212-29-07, 02:13 PM | There should be a feat to reduce the vulnerabilities - Venom becomes more resistant to sonic attacks as time goes on. In some incarnations, Venom can turn invisible and is immune to divination spells (ie. spider-sense). Venom's webs grow weaker the further they are from the main symbiote. Then there's the symbiote's ability to turn into a "molecular monofilament" and travel through phone lines. While there aren't any phone lines in the typical D&D setting, there are surely other uses for this. The symbiote can also bond with multiple beings simultaneously, linking their minds. Remember, a host deprived of its symbiote could die without it, and the symbiote has saved Eddie from mortal wounds on multiple occasions. The brain dependency should also be mentioned (Venom must consume either human brain tissue or vast amounts of chocolate in order to survive). Finally, I remember a storyline where Eddie sent most of the symbiote underground (leaving most of his body uncovered) and sent spikes shooting up from the ground. |
| Red_Wizards_Rock12-29-07, 08:19 PM | Campaign Setting is FR The webslinging how many towns have building that have more than 2 stories and are close enough to websling through. There are afew probably one per country with the exception of Thay, and I wouldn't mind seeing that happen. Both Venom and Spider-man have used there webbing to cocoon people to hold them, but to answer the question first you have to make a ranged touch attack to get the webbing on them, than a grapple check. Sound hurts venom. Just him hearing a scream from Wail of the Banishee doesn't hurt anyone. It's the negative energy of the spell that kills you. I upped it to 8/hour because that means: Round 1 Webspray = 4 Round 3 Web = 1 maybe cocoon after that Medium = 1 or Large = 2 or throw another Webspray depending how many there are. Right there he's almost out. 8's a good number. I'm not going to make a feat to reduce the vulnerability. No molecular monofilament (Maybe he could travel through the weave, but still no.) Still gonna say no multiple bonding, because he's the man with the symbiotes powers (I'm just not gonna go overboard with the symbiotes will) ---Airos The clothes feel like clothes you can touch them, and they feel very real. Use other books besides the PHB for sonic spells. (Spider Climb) is a lvl 1 spell ranged grapples (cocoon) the most this could be used in combat is 4 times against medium and 2 times against large. I don't see where you are getting unlimited ranged trip (web) same as grapple ranged entanglement (web spray) 2 times per combat. Still not sure where you are getting unlimited disguise (shifting) so you are upset he can change his robes or pants with a thought. Edit: For awhile I was on the line of having it be Con+HD per day now that could of gotten out of hand. |
| Airos12-30-07, 12:03 AM | ---Airos The clothes feel like clothes you can touch them, and they feel very real. Use other books besides the PHB for sonic spells. (Spider Climb) is a lvl 1 spell ranged grapples (cocoon) the most this could be used in combat is 4 times against medium and 2 times against large. I don't see where you are getting unlimited ranged trip (web) same as grapple ranged entanglement (web spray) 2 times per combat. Still not sure where you are getting unlimited disguise (shifting) so you are upset he can change his robes or pants with a thought. Edit: For awhile I was on the line of having it be Con+HD per day now that could of gotten out of hand. Okay... I already listed one spell "other than" the PHB, (Orb of Sound from SPc), but I am not permitted to post that information since it's not OGL. The other reason is that I have no idea what books you are using, so I don't know what [sonic] spells will/won't exist in your game. I'm just pointing out the fact that 11 out of 13 spells so far have no additional effect on your PC. You say "in combat" quite a lot for the uses of the web. Will you be telling the PC that he can't use these abilities "out of combat"? Since he can do it 8 times per hour, there's no telling how long the webbing lasts, no break DC for a str check, no DC for an escape artist check, what's to stop him from capturing 8 1st level commoners per hour and holding them hostage? They'll never beat his grapple check. Ranged trip is even worse, but at least the PC can't make AoO's with his web when the opponent tries to stand up, preventing the mess that is spiked chain. Entangle can be used, by your words, 2 times per combat. Assuming 3 encounters per day, that means he could use it up to 6 times per day. The same as a 7th level druid. More than 3 encounters? He gets a 1st level spell more times per day than a caster does at a higher level. Use it outside of combat? Even more times per day. The big deal about the changing of clothing is does it provide a mechanical bonus? Disguise Self gives a +10 disguise. The Glammered property does not. What does this work like? Venom used this ability to blend into crowds and hide from people, (mostly Spiderman and/or cops), and I doubt your player won't try to as well. A bonus to disguise is a big deal when you add it to everything else this template adds. And finally, what the hell does... Sound hurts venom. Just him hearing a scream from Wail of the Banishee doesn't hurt anyone. It's the negative energy of the spell that kills you. ...even mean? Him hearing a Wail of the Banshee doesn't hurt anyone? Yeah, I wouldn't think him hearing something would hurt someone else. Does it hurt him? How much does it hurt? 1d6/spell level? 1d6/caster level? 947,852d6? It matters. |
| Red_Wizards_Rock12-30-07, 09:49 AM | All Books, Looking forward to 4th edition so 3.5 goes down in price faster lol. Read the web spell, and sure if he wants to use it outside of combat. The webspray would take up 4 of his uses for that hour. It's not disguise self, because disguise self can make you taller, shorter, thin and fat. This is just clothes. I was pretty sure that you should of understood that this wasn't an Illusion, but It's not an Illusion because the symbiote turns into the clothes I guess I'd toss in a +4 disguise bonus. So I'm not sure where you are getting +10. |
| Prime3212-30-07, 01:48 PM | It isn't just clothes - Venom can disguise himself as other people with radically different builds. And as for webslinging, why not just give him the Bracchiation feat from Complete Adventurer? It lets him move faster between the branches of a forest. There aren't many skyscrapers in D&D anyway, and in Marvel 1602, Peter Parkaugh webslings between trees, so why not? It might be better to stat the web cocoon stuff with psionics. |
| Airos12-30-07, 02:49 PM | All Books, Looking forward to 4th edition so 3.5 goes down in price faster lol. That's great. I don't have the time or desire to read through every D&D book to come up with a complete list of all spells that have the [sonic] descriptor, which deal damage and which allow a save for that damage. I've made my point as clear as I can make it; there are not enough spells that deal [sonic] damage to restrict when the vulnerability actually works. Read the web spell, and sure if he wants to use it outside of combat. The webspray would take up 4 of his uses for that hour. I have read the Web spell, and it has very little, if anything, to do with the abilities you have listed. Web can't be used to make trip attacks. Web can't be used to grapple an opponent. Web can't be made into a 30' cone without use of [metamagic] feats. How am I, or anyone else for that matter, supposed to know that it works like the Web spell when you don't make any reference to the Web spell? It's not disguise self, because disguise self can make you taller, shorter, thin and fat. This is just clothes. I was pretty sure that you should of understood that this wasn't an Illusion, but It's not an Illusion because the symbiote turns into the clothes I guess I'd toss in a +4 disguise bonus. So I'm not sure where you are getting +10. You seem to have misunderstood my question. I know how Disguise Self works, and that's why I said... Is it the same as the Glammered property of magical armor? Does it work as the spell Disguise Self but limited only to the suit itself and its appearance? The Glamered property changes the appearance of the armor. It does feel like clothing and provides no bonus to disguise checks. Disguise Self, limited only to the suit itself and its appearance would not feel like clothing yet provides a +10 bonus to disguise checks. Both of these abilities are illusions. The ability that you describe, while "alien" and "super-heroic" in the comic books, sounds like an illusion to me in a D&D game. I thought it was a valid question to ask if it was an illusion or not, and an equally valid question as to if it provided any kind of bonus to disguise or not. I felt this ability could go either way on both questions. The the template is not clear on where it does work like things in D&D, and where it does not work like D&D. You make the assumption that everyone is supposed to know that the abilities that make use of webbing work just like the Web spell, even though none of the ways the template uses webbing are ways to use the Web spell. You then go on to make the further assumption that we're all supposed to know that the ability to mimic any form of clothing works nothing like the common ways in D&D to mimic any form of clothing. I can't make a fair judgment about this template unless I know what it does and how those things work. If something does work like another spell/magic item/racial ability that already exists in D&D, I need to know that. If something does not work like another spell/magic item/racial ability that already exists in D&D, I also need to know that so I can see how it differs. At the end of the day the real question is "is it more powerful than/weaker than ability [x]"? So all my questions have been "how does it compare to ability [x]? All my statements and criticisms have been "at LA +3 these abilities are too powerful. They either need to be weakened, or the LA needs to increase". You asked for input, I'm providing that. There's no real way for me to judge your tone here on the boards. I feel that you're becoming defensive because I'm picking apart your work. If I've offended you, acted snarky or otherwise been a jerk, I'm sorry. I do, however, need to pick apart your template one piece at a time to throughly analyze it. That's kinda the point of these boards and asking thousands of people to look it over. At this point I feel the template is messy, over-powered for its LA +3, and unclear on how it's abilities actually work. It needs improvement and clarification. Now, maybe many of these things will never come up in your game, but other people would like to be able to use this in their games where such things very well might come up. It's important to know which of the abilities are (Ex)traordinary, (Su)pernatural and (Sp)ell-like. It's important to know if the templated creature would take any damage from spells with the [sonic] descriptor, but do not deal [sonic] damage. If so, how much damage it would take? Those are my questions/concerns for the moment. |
| Red_Wizards_Rock12-30-07, 11:13 PM | You asked how strong the web would be for someone to break out of it DC 20str check or DC 25 Escape Artist like web spell. I never said the power mimiced web I figured that much was obvious. All of the web powers including webslinging and spiderclimb would be supernatural. If that will make it easier for you to understand than yes like glamer. I'm sorry but you can't get anymore direct than this "Shifting (Clothes only)" two words if you can't understand that than it's not me? This template doesn't compare to Half Fiends and Half Celestials so there is no way I could see a +4 or higher. When I started this I was thinking about LA +2 and Maybe if I dropped something making it LA +1, but It was pretty convincing there wasn't much way to make it a LA +2. I'd play a Half Fiend, Half Celestial or a Half Dragon before I played this so I couldn't see how it being a LA +4. Lets try this (***)are near the new stuff ----- Type -Aberration Movement -Webslinging (Su) (Double Normal Movement) (Does not count against Daily use of webbing) (Not strong enough to hold a target) -Spiderclimb (Su) (Full Movement) Armor Class -Natural +4 Full Attack -Primary Claws (Same as Half-Dragon) -Secondary Bite (Same as Half-Dragon) Special Attacks ***Webbing is considered a light weapon (Disarm, Grapple, Trip) -Web (Su) 8/hour save DC 10+Half HD+Con Mod (60ft Line) (Can be used once every 1d4 rnds) --Cocoon (Su) (Must be within 10ft and grappled with the web) (As per grapple) ---Medium or smaller = 1 use of your webs per hour ---Large = 2 use of your webs per hour -Web Spray (Su) = 4 use of your webs per hour (30ft cone) (Can be used once every 1d4 rnds) ***DC to break loose of web Str Check DC 20 or Escape Artist DC 25 Special Qualities ***-Immune to Sleep and Paralysis Effects (Ex) -Darkvision 60ft (Ex) -Lowlight Vision (Ex) -Heals at Double Normal Rate per day (Ex) ***-(-2 vs Sonic Spells) Double Damage against Sonic on failed saving throw (Ex) ***-Glamer (Clothes only) (Su) ***-Must consume humanoid brain fluid or chocolate to stay alive Abilities -Str +8 -Dex +4 -Con +2 Skills -Hide +4 -Jump +4 -Move Silently +4 LA +3 |
| Airos12-31-07, 04:58 AM | You asked how strong the web would be for someone to break out of it DC 20str check or DC 25 Escape Artist like web spell. I never said the power mimiced web I figured that much was obvious. Nothing is obvious. It's up to you to tell us how things work since you're the one coming up with these powers. All of the web powers including webslinging and spiderclimb would be supernatural. That seems fine. (Su) means that those abilities do not provoke an AoO and are not subject to Spell Resistance. Web doesn't allow for SR, so this is not a change. If that will make it easier for you to understand than yes like glamer. I'm sorry but you can't get anymore direct than this "Shifting (Clothes only)" two words if you can't understand that than it's not me? And I can't be anymore direct than does it provide a mechanical bonus or not. There are things that do provide a bonus and there are things that do not. Using only two words does not tell anyone how it works. This template doesn't compare to Half Fiends and Half Celestials so there is no way I could see a +4 or higher. When I started this I was thinking about LA +2 and Maybe if I dropped something making it LA +1, but It was pretty convincing there wasn't much way to make it a LA +2. I'd play a Half Fiend, Half Celestial or a Half Dragon before I played this so I couldn't see how it being a LA +4. Well I don't think there's any way anyone can help you to understand, then. This is more powerful for all the reasons I listed in my 12/29 post. This template provides more abilities. Those abilities are useful to more classes than a half-fiend/celestial. The abilities remain useful. I don't know what else to tell you... |
| KernOfGort12-31-07, 01:02 PM | Why not just make a cursed artifact-style ecto-skin? Base would be human (like Venom is) and be cursed to do evil things, along with a bunch of powers... |
| Prime3212-31-07, 01:11 PM | I have some ideas for a legacy item - I'll post them in a while. |
| Red_Wizards_Rock12-31-07, 02:21 PM | Airos I made some changes to the webs ----- For everyone else just need an opinion for the number of times he could use his webshooters. A) 8 per hour B) Con Mod + Half HD ----- Type -Aberration Movement -Webslinging (Su) (Double Normal Movement) (Does not count against Daily use of webbing) (Not strong enough to hold a target) -Spiderclimb (Su) (Full Movement) Armor Class -Natural +4 Full Attack -Primary Claws (Same as Half-Dragon) -Secondary Bite (Same as Half-Dragon) Special Attacks Webbing is considered a light weapon -Web (Su) 8/hour as per web spell against single target save DC 10+Half HD+Con Mod (60ft Line) (Can be used once every 1d4 rnds) -Web Spray (Su) = 4 use of your webs per hour. As per web spell (30ft cone) (Can be used once every 1d4 rnds) DC to break loose of web Str Check DC 20 or Escape Artist DC 25 ***(Complete Warrior)Templated creature may take Ranged Disarm, Ranged Pin and Ranged Trip and need not have any of the prerequisites normally required for these feats to select them when using webs. Special Qualities -Darkvision 60ft (Ex) -Heals at Double Normal Rate per day (Ex) -Glamer (Clothes only) (Su) -(-2 vs Sonic Spells) Double Damage against Sonic spell on failed saving throw (Ex) -Must consume humanoid brain fluid once per week Abilities -Str +8 -Dex +4 -Con +2 Skills -Hide +4 -Jump +4 -Move Silently +4 LA +3 Edit: removed Chocolate and added in must eat 1 humanoid brain per week. |
| Prime3212-31-07, 02:55 PM | Airos I made some changes to the webs ----- For everyone else just need an opinion for the number of times he could use his webshooters. A) 8 per hour B) Con Mod + Half HD"Con Mod + Half HD" per what? -Webslinging (Su) (Double Normal Movement) (Does not count against Daily use of webbing) (Not strong enough to hold a target) Wow, that will come in handy when I need to swim fast! :P -Glamer (Clothes only) (Su)He can take the appearance of other people - just copy the text from the changeling's Minor Change Shape ability - you can find it in a sidebar here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070314a). -Must consume humanoid brain fluid or chocolate to stay alive How often? For the legacy class I was working on, I would require that each week, the character consumes either the brain of one intelligent humanoid or an alchemical formula worth 100gp x class level. |
| Red_Wizards_Rock12-31-07, 08:00 PM | Prime32 It says webshooters. How is webslinging speed going to help you swim? Glamer is only for clothes it says it in the DMG and it says it in Parenthesis. Now for the question that is actually something I missed. The number of brains he'll have to eat is one per week. I'll probably take the chocolate thing off. |
| Prime3201-01-08, 09:20 AM | Prime32 It says webshooters. How is webslinging speed going to help you swim? Because you didn't say it wouldn't - you just said it doubled your speed. Likewise, without any text to the contrary, a player is free to websling through a desert - you must specify under what conditions this can be used. I'll say it again - the Bracchiation feat is the simplest way to handle this. |
| Prime3201-01-08, 10:30 AM | Rough version of incomplete class: Venom Intelligent Psychoactive Skin Brain Dependency: Each week, a scion must consume either the brain of one intelligent humanoid or an alchemical formula worth 100gp x class level (creating this formula requires a DC 25 Craft [alchemy] check) or take 2d4 points of Constitution damage. Minor Change Shape (Su): The scion gains the supernatural ability to alter his appearance as though using a disguise self spell. This ability is not an illusory effect, but a minor physical alteration of a symbiote's shape, color and texture, and size, within the limits described for the spell. A scion can use this ability at will, and the alteration lasts until he changes shape again. A scion reverts to her natural form when killed. A true seeing spell reveals his natural form. When using this ability to create a disguise, a scion receives a +10 circumstance bonus on Disguise checks. Using this ability is a standard action. Wall Walker (Su): At 2nd level, the scion is under the effects of a continuous wall walker power Natural Weapons: At 3rd level, a scion manifests natural weapons in the form of 2 claws and a bite attack. A Medium scion deals 1d4 and 1d6 points of damage with these attacks respectively Natural Armour: Starting at 4th level, a scion adds half his class level as a bonus to natural armour. Harmonic Symbiosis: At 5th level, the scion’s alignment becomes one step closer to the item’s. If the character does not now have the same alignment as the symbiote, the item’s alignment then becomes one step closer to the character’s. As a result of the closer bond between scion and symbiote, the character gains a +2 bonus on Will saves. Invisibility (Su): At 6th level, the scion can use improved invisibility as a supernatural ability once per day Escape Detection (Su): At 7th level, a scion is under the effects of a continuous escape detection power. Ectoplasmic Cocoon (Su): At 8th level, a scion can use ectoplasmic coccoon as a supernatural ability 1/day. |
| Red_Wizards_Rock01-01-08, 10:51 AM | Because you didn't say it wouldn't - you just said it doubled your speed. Likewise, without any text to the contrary, a player is free to websling through a desert - you must specify under what conditions this can be used. I'll say it again - the Bracchiation feat is the simplest way to handle this. Prime32, Please watch Spiderman cartoon, Movie or read a comic before you post here again. Obviously you don't know what webslinging is. When you are swimming you can not connect your web to the water when you are in the desert what are you going to connect your web to. So I'm just going to pretend you didn't make that post, and go back to the real post. That was not in insight just a wasted post. Edit: What is that posted above like I said Cartoon, Movie or comic before you post anymore suggestions, because you obviously don't know who Venom is. No I will not be using a weapon of legacy. |
| Prime3201-01-08, 11:12 AM | Prime32, Please watch Spiderman cartoon, Movie or read a comic before you post here again. Obviously you don't know what webslinging is. When you are swimming you can not connect your web to the water when you are in the desert what are you going to connect your web to. So I'm just going to pretend you didn't make that post, and go back to the real post. That was not in insight just a wasted post. Edit: What is that posted above like I said Cartoon, Movie or comic before you post anymore suggestions, because you obviously don't know who Venom is. No I will not be using a weapon of legacy. I have already shown my experience of all incarnations of Venom (molecular monofilament anyone?). I know what webslinging is, but you have not stated what it is in the D&D rules. How can someone who does not know what webslinging is use your rules? And how can multiple people get the same result using your rules? Webslinging in a desert is possible according to your current rules. Say I created a new spell called "Heironeous's Tempest", and said it "damages all enemies in the area". Isn't the damage type obvious? No. Even assuming you know that a tempest is a storm, that doesn't neccesarily mean it deals electric damage - it could summon blades that do slashing damage or just about anything. You must specify exactly what the ability does in a way people unfamiliar with Spiderman can use. |
| Prime3201-01-08, 11:20 AM | Let me post my point again: 1. In the comics, Venom cannot websling through a desert. 2. Your rules do not provide any restriction on where webslinging can be used. 3. Thus, under your rules, Venom can websling through a desert. 4. Your rules need clarification (something as simple as "this ability may only be used in forests or areas with buildings at least X ft. tall" would work) |
| Airos01-01-08, 12:13 PM | Prime32: This is why I've given up trying to help Red_Wizards_Rock. Apparently if you're reading a Spiderman comic book everything he/she has written makes total sense and shouldn't be questioned. If you're trying to play D&D, however, then just give up. After all, it's only two or three words... what's not to understand? :rolleyes: |
| Red_Wizards_Rock01-01-08, 10:48 PM | Airos and Prime maybe you should try something you both haven't tried yet such as an example. So far all you have said is not clear enough, not clear enough, and appropriately I'm not understanding how to be anymore clear. We'll use Webslinging first since it's at the top of the template right now. So why don't you give me an example of how clear you can be about this. How would you word Webslinging? |
| Airos01-02-08, 12:31 AM | Airos and Prime maybe you should try something you both haven't tried yet such as an example. So far all you have said is not clear enough, not clear enough, and appropriately I'm not understanding how to be anymore clear. We'll use Webslinging first since it's at the top of the template right now. So why don't you give me an example of how clear you can be about this. How would you word Webslinging? Webslinging (Ex) As a move action, [template name] can fire a line of webbing at a tree, building or other sturdy, stationary object. The object needs to be at least 15' above the [template name], but can not be further than 60' above the [template name]. This allows the [template name] to move up to twice his or her normal land speed. Additional movement granted by spells or magic items, (such as that granted by Haste or Expeditious Retreat), do not contribute to the movement granted by this ability. Each round the [template name] may choose to fire an additional line of webbing for additional movement, or to land. The [template name] cannot create a line greater than 60', so if the webbing is attached to an object at a distance greater than 70' above the ground, [template name] will suffer 1d6 points of falling damage per 10' fallen if they let go or are knocked off. The webbing can be cut with a weapon. It has an AC of 14, hardness of 2 and 8 hit points. It's more difficult to damage with a piercing or bludgeoning weapon, giving it DR 5/slashing. The webbing can be broken with a DC 24 strength check. Fire will destroy the webbing instantly. If the webbing is either cut or destroyed, assume the [template name] is at a distance of halfway between the anchor point and the ground to determine falling damage, (for example; [template name] attaches the webbing 60' above him or her while standing on the ground. If the webbing were cut, [template name] would fall from a distance of 30', taking 3d6 falling damage. If the [template name] were 20' above the ground level and attached the webbing 60' above that point, then he or she would fall a distance of 40'). The webbing can only support the [template name] and his or her equipment, up to a maximum of 250 lbs. total. Any additional weight, (such as an additional creature), will cause the line to break. I needed to come up with some numbers for the distance of the webbing, since you haven't answered the question of how close/distant a target must be. I felt it was necessary to add a weight limit for two reasons. The first being that somebody is at some point going to ask why they can't take a passenger along for a ride, (which I think is silly. They did this all the time in the comics). The second of which is to prevent blatant abuse. A character can lift as much as double his or her maximum load off the ground, but he or she can only stagger around with it. While overloaded in this way, the character loses any Dexterity bonus to AC and can move only 5 feet per round (as a full-round action). Without a weight limit, there's nothing stopping the character from lifting double his or her max load and web swinging away at 120' a round. That's how I think it should be written up. All the numbers can be freely changed around to what you want them to be, such as the distances, the weight limits and what not. I wouldn't mess with the HP/Hardness/AC and such. Silk rope only has 4 hit points and can be burst with a DC 24 Strength check, has no hardness and has no DR. |
| Red_Wizards_Rock01-02-08, 01:33 AM | Very nice, I will keep most of this The webbing can only support the [template name] and his or her equipment, up to a maximum of 250 lbs. total. Any additional weight, (such as an additional creature), will cause the line to break. This will have to go I bolded the new addition. I'm trying to keep it fun and comic friendly to. ----- Below is what it will look like Webslinging (Ex) As a move action, [template name] can fire a line of webbing at a tree, building or other sturdy, stationary object. The object needs to be at least 15' above the [template name], but can not be further than 60' above the [template name]. This allows the [template name] to move up to twice his or her normal land speed. Additional movement granted by spells or magic items, (such as that granted by Haste or Expeditious Retreat), do not contribute to the movement granted by this ability. Each round the [template name] may choose to fire an additional line of webbing for additional movement, or to land. The [template name] cannot create a line greater than 60', so if the webbing is attached to an object at a distance greater than 70' above the ground, [template name] will suffer 1d6 points of falling damage per 10' fallen if they let go or are knocked off. The webbing can be cut with a weapon. It has an AC of 14, hardness of 2 and 8 hit points. It's more difficult to damage with a piercing or bludgeoning weapon, giving it DR 5/slashing. The webbing can be broken with a DC 20 strength check. Fire will destroy the webbing instantly. If the webbing is either cut or destroyed, assume the [template name] is at a distance of halfway between the anchor point and the ground to determine falling damage, (for example; [template name] attaches the webbing 60' above him or her while standing on the ground. If the webbing were cut, [template name] would fall from a distance of 30', taking 3d6 falling damage. If the [template name] were 20' above the ground level and attached the webbing 60' above that point, then he or she would fall a distance of 40'). The webbing can support up to a light load. Any additional weight, will cause the line to break. ----- I see it the stronger he is the stronger his web is, but I'll see how this goes first before I consider saying no passengers. |
| Red_Wizards_Rock01-02-08, 01:44 AM | What is the next problem that is seen? Since Websling has been taken care of enough for now? Spiderclimb or the Dreaded Web? ----- Type -Aberration Movement -Webslinging (Ex) As a move action, Venom can fire a line of webbing at a tree, building or other sturdy, stationary object. The object needs to be at least 15' above him/her, but can not be further than 60' above him/her. This allows him/her to move up to twice his or her normal land speed. Additional movement granted by spells or magic items, (such as that granted by Haste or Expeditious Retreat), do not contribute to the movement granted by this ability. Each round Venom may choose to fire an additional line of webbing for additional movement, or to land. Venom cannot create a line greater than 60', so if the webbing is attached to an object at a distance greater than 70' above the ground, Venom will suffer 1d6 points of falling damage per 10' fallen if they let go or are knocked off. The webbing can be cut with a weapon. It has an AC of 14, hardness of 2 and 8 hit points. It's more difficult to damage with a piercing or bludgeoning weapon, giving it DR 5/slashing. The webbing can be broken with a DC 20 strength check. Fire will destroy the webbing instantly. If the webbing is either cut or destroyed, assume Venom is at a distance of halfway between the anchor point and the ground to determine falling damage, (for example; Venom attaches the webbing 60' above him or her while standing on the ground. If the webbing were cut, Venom would fall from a distance of 30', taking 3d6 falling damage. If Venom were 20' above the ground level and attached the webbing 60' above that point, then he or she would fall a distance of 40'). The webbing can support up to a light load. Any additional weight, will cause the line to break. -Spiderclimb (Ex) (Full Movement) (as per spell) Armor Class -Natural +4 Full Attack -Primary Claws (Same as Half-Dragon) -Secondary Bite (Same as Half-Dragon) Special Attacks Webbing is considered a light weapon -Web (Ex) 8/hour as per web spell against single target save DC 10+Half HD+Con Mod (60ft Line) (Can be used once every 1d4 rnds) (up to 60ft) -Web Spray (Ex) = 4 use of your webs per hour. As per web spell (Can be used once every 1d4 rnds) (30ft cone) DC to break loose of web Str Check DC 20 or Escape Artist DC 25 ***(Complete Warrior)Templated creature may take Ranged Disarm, Ranged Pin and Ranged Trip and need not have any of the prerequisites normally required for these feats to select them when using webs. Special Qualities -Darkvision 60ft (Ex) -Heals at Double Normal Rate per day (Ex) -Disguise Self (Ex) (Not an Illusion, Clothes only) -(-2 vs Sonic Spells) Double Damage against Sonic spell on failed saving throw (Ex) -Venom must consume a humanoid brain fluid once per week. If Venom does not eat a fresh brain in a week he will be forced to make Fortitude save DC 10 +1 for everyday that passes, or fly into a barbarian rage until he eats a fresh brain. If Venom does not eat a fresh brain within two weeks a failed save will be death. Abilities -Str +8 -Dex +4 -Con +2 Skills -Hide +4 -Jump +4 -Move Silently +4 LA +3 |
| narack01-02-08, 12:42 PM | Just that : str +8 dex +4 con +2 total : +14 Worth at least a +4 LA, it's twice more than a Githzerai and he got +2 LA +6 Dexterity +2 Wisdom -2 Intelligence = +6 |
| Red_Wizards_Rock01-02-08, 01:22 PM | I'm comparing to Half Dragon (+3) and Half Celestial/Fiends (+4), and Githzerai also get...Inertial Armor +4 armor bonus and Spell Resistance. Although I'd let them have 3/d Daze, featherfall and shatter, and lvl 11 they'd get plane shift. |
| Prime3201-02-08, 01:50 PM | What is the next problem that is seen? Since Websling has been taken care of enough for now? Spiderclimb or the Dreaded Web? The webbing can support up to a light load. Any additional weight, will cause the line to break. There's a problem here - webbing doesn't have a light load. If you meant the character's light load, that means that the webbing shot by someone with big muscles can support more weight. :confused: EDIT: Sorry, didn't see RWR's edit on that at first. I would like to point out, though, that most of the people who break the webs have superhuman strength, so you might want to keep the DC 24. Special Attacks Webbing is considered a light weapon -Web (Ex) 8/hour as per web spell against single target save DC 10+Half HD+Con Mod (60ft Line) (Can be used once every 1d4 rnds) (up to 60ft) -Web Spray (Ex) = 4 use of your webs per hour. As per web spell (Can be used once every 1d4 rnds) (30ft cone) Maybe you should say the first use is more like a tanglefoot bag? Special Qualities -Darkvision 60ft (Ex) -Heals at Double Normal Rate per day (Ex) -Disguise Self (Ex) (Not an Illusion, Clothes only) -(-2 vs Sonic Spells) Double Damage against Sonic spell on failed saving throw (Ex) I see you're leaving out the ability to copy people - I have no problems with that, but your disguise ability isn't much use as anything other than flavour. I would also say that whenever Venom would take nonlethal damage from a sonic effect, he takes lethal damage instead. It would be simpler to give him regeneration overcome by fire and sonic, but that would make much more powerful. -Venom must consume a humanoid brain fluid once per week. If Venom does not eat a fresh brain in a week he will be forced to make Fortitude save DC 10 +1 for everyday that passes, or fly into a barbarian rage until he eats a fresh brain. If Venom does not eat a fresh brain within two weeks a failed save will be death. If he doesn't eat brains, he gets stronger? The DC also seems a tad low. Abilities -Str +8 -Dex +4 -Con +2 Skills -Hide +4 -Jump +4 -Move Silently +4 LA +3 You might want to reconsider the ability score boosts - Venom was able to defeat Carnage, despite the fact that Carnage is far stronger than him (IIRC, four times stronger) through cunning and staying power (and Carnage should have at least +2 Con, so Venom should get more than that). And then he beat up Juggernaut, who has a much higher Con. Some of this could be put down to Eddie Brock, but he was hardly an intellectual. |
| Red_Wizards_Rock01-02-08, 02:43 PM | Prime like above try an example or throw an idea out there. DC 20 is the strength check for the web spell it's a good DC, and the highest strength anyone will have is (18 +4) to start and Venom is maybe (26 +8). That's asking someone average to roll a 20 and Venom to roll a 16. DC 20 is a good DC for low and mid lvl. I think DC 24 is to high. I'm thinking I'll make it with a successful save 1pt of Con Damage until he eats a brain than he'll get 1pt back per day. The rage is about starvation this would be really bad if this should happen in town. |
| ToastedAmphibian01-02-08, 10:44 PM | I have a sugggestion for the "Brainless rage" aability. Ditch the "As a barbarians rage" and make it so that he enters a bezerkers frenzy. And make the save a WILL save, DC 10 +1 per MINUTE. Make sure they are held acountable (Alignment wise) for any actions they take during their frenzy, including the killing and eating of party members. Id also recomend ditching the claws and bite. Id probably go with a slam attack instead. Also, a chrisma and or wisdom penalty often acompanies a shift in creature type to abberation (See Elan) it represents a strangness and disconnect from the natural world / normal society. [It also dosnt seem to be too out of character for brocks change, what little I know of it, from a fairly charismatic guy to a psycopathic, power hungry maniac.] Also, i dont understand the dex boost. Sure, it should improve jumping and climbing abilites, but in DND these are both strength skills. I also dont understand the stealth bonuses. The only thing i can think of that would cause you to add this is his ability to evade "Spidy Sense" but i kinda figured that was due to the symbiot previously being a part of parker, thus causing his body to think of it as part of himself, and thus not register as an external threat.... |
| Spikes01k01-02-08, 10:56 PM | Venom is a very powerful villain. He has a large deal of shape shifting abilities, as well as the ability to cloak. Hat of disguise should be a good start. He is invisible when standing still, but difficult to pinpoint when moving. p.s. Claws and bite are a must, he has them both, as well as a slam, and would not be him with out them. http://z.about.com/d/comicbooks/1/7/6/C/venom.jpg I mean, my god look at him. |
| ToastedAmphibian01-02-08, 11:23 PM | Mabey i just havnt read enough comics, but i dont belive i have ever, in a comic, a cartoon, video game, whatever, actually seen him BITE anything. Or claw for that matter. Mostly i see him punch, kick, backhand, and throw things...... Mabey its just a function of his remaining human tendencies preventing him from seeting these as usefull weapons in a battle but typically i only see him using them for intimidation purposes (Why dosnt he have an intimidation bonus?) Or perhapes he commonly uses these tactics in other sources that i am not familiar with, but such activites where cut from other, larger venues because clawing and biting with giant sized teeth isnt considered family friendly? (While crushing people with cars is.... but thats a diffrent matter) However, my comic book knowledge is not exstensive by any stretch of the imagination, so if anyone says i am wrong, i would certaintly conceed that they are probably correct. Id still say that a slam attack is probably warranted, but from a game balance perspective, a slam attack added too the claw/claw/bite routine would probasbly be too much. |
| Red_Wizards_Rock01-03-08, 12:18 AM | I like the Berserker frenzy, but are you talking about like the frenzy berserker frenzy? I'm not sure if I want to make the DC every minute, but I was thinking about making it DC 15 +1 per day. The claws and teeth stick out alot in the pictures. I thought about penalties to intelligence, wisdom and chr, but every aberration I see in the MM have some really high stats so I just looked at how many pluses and minuses the Half Dragon had, and used that as a guideline I'm using the Hide and Move Silently skill as his stealth instead of actually giving him invisibility or an actual blending ability. In the beginning he had the bonuses that a Spider out of the MM would of had? ----- Brain Weakness below please check the wording and offer any assistance? Thank you ----- -Venom must consume a humanoid brain once per week. If Venom does not consume a fresh brain in a week he will be forced to make Will save DC 15 +1 for everyday that passes. On a successful save Venom takes one point of constitution damage, and a failed save Venom will fly into a barbarian rage until he eats a fresh brain. If Venom constitution reaches zero he will die. His constitution will return at one point per day after he's eaten a fresh brain. |
| Prime3201-03-08, 10:19 AM | Mabey i just havnt read enough comics, but i dont belive i have ever, in a comic, a cartoon, video game, whatever, actually seen him BITE anything. Or claw for that matter. Mostly i see him punch, kick, backhand, and throw things...... He ate part of Sandman, killing him Mabey its just a function of his remaining human tendencies preventing him from seeting these as usefull weapons in a battle but typically i only see him using them for intimidation purposes (Why dosnt he have an intimidation bonus?) I suggested a Cha bonus - he's pretty good at bluffing as well (when he wants to). Penalty to Diplomacy though - have you seen what happens when he tries to make a Diplomacy check? It's usually messy... I'm using the Hide and Move Silently skill as his stealth instead of actually giving him invisibility or an actual blending ability. In the beginning he had the bonuses that a Spider out of the MM would of had? That's why I suggested a class - Venom couldn't turn invisible at first, but he figured out how to do it with his shapechanging ability at some point. ----- Brain Weakness below please check the wording and offer any assistance? Thank you ----- -Venom must consume a humanoid brain once per week. If Venom does not consume a fresh brain in a week he will be forced to make Will save DC 15 +1 for everyday that passes. On a successful save Venom takes one point of constitution damage, and a failed save Venom will fly into a barbarian rage until he eats a fresh brain. If Venom constitution reaches zero he will die. His constitution will return at one point per day after he's eaten a fresh brain. So if Venom fails a save, he doesn't lose a point of Constitution? Venom can just stay in permanent rage as long as he doesn't eat brains, then, with no risk of dying. |
| Prime3201-03-08, 10:42 AM | I found some Youtube videos you should check out if you don't know that much about Venom Venom 101 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pg6U-EJKhYw) Venom 102 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CbAFQQNuTI) |
| Red_Wizards_Rock01-03-08, 03:39 PM | Nice video's, but they don't talk about Venom powers just his backstory. I might put a save vs fire penalty back in. Prime32 I don't mind Nit-picking because that's why it's here, but if you are going to Nit-Pick than offer a suggestion on what I could do. Otherwise you aren't helping. I've been getting alot of good help ever since this went into page two of this link. Thx everyone ----- -Spiderclimb (Ex) (Full Movement) (as per spell) Is this good enough for this ability, and if anyone seeing something they could add in please say so. To me it looks good, but I usually tell a player run and it's open to change if I see something wrong. I'd just like to get some ideas for this otherwise I'm going to move on down the line. ----- Although I might throw Fire back in and instead of Double Damage from sonic just give them both penalty to saves Vs Fire and Sonic spells. |
| Prime3201-03-08, 03:55 PM | Is this good enough for this ability, and if anyone seeing something they could add in please say so. To me it looks good, but I usually tell a player run and it's open to change if I see something wrong. I'd just like to get some ideas for this otherwise I'm going to move on down the line. Maybe... Spider Climb (Su): A *template name* can climb walls like a spider. This functions as the spider climb spell, but the *template name* can move at his full base land speed. Well, Spidey's powers are magical in nature, and in Forgotten Realms this seems a bit odd as an extraordinary ability (I've made pseudo-magical abilities extraordinary before, but they were in the context of their own setting). |
| Prime3201-03-08, 03:58 PM | Prime32 I don't mind Nit-picking because that's why it's here, but if you are going to Nit-Pick than offer a suggestion on what I could do. Otherwise you aren't helping. The Brain Weakness ability basically rewards the creature for failing a save - if they take a point of Constitution damage on a successful save, they should take the same damage (or more) on a failed save, in addition to the berserk effect. -Venom must consume a humanoid brain once per week. If Venom does not consume a fresh brain in a week he will be forced to make Will save DC 15 +1 for everyday that passes. On a successful save Venom takes one point of constitution damage, and a failed save Venom will fly into a barbarian rage until he eats a fresh brain. If Venom constitution reaches zero he will die. His constitution will return at one point per day after he's eaten a fresh brain. What about: -Venom must consume the brain of at least one intelligent humanoid each week. Optional: The brain must be consumed within 5 minutes of the creature's death (a gentle repose spell can extend this duration). Each day after one week in which Venom has not consumed a brain, he takes 1d4 points of Constitution damage and must make a Will save (DC = 15 +1 for every additional day beyond seven) or fly into a mindless rage, hunting down any creature that appears to have a brain and attacking them. This state lasts until Venom either consumes a brain or dies. Venom cannot recover points of Constitution until he has consumed a fresh brain. |
| Red_Wizards_Rock01-03-08, 04:48 PM | Spidey's powers would be extraordinary, because he was biten by a radioactive spider. I like your wording, but I'm probably going to keep the (Ex) The con damage thing on the failed save was suppose to be there also. I just didn't write it right Thx for catching that. That could of been a problem waiting to happen. ----- -Spiderclimb (Ex) Venom can climb walls like a spider. This functions as the spider climb spell, but Venom can move at his land speed. -Venom must consume the brain of at least one intelligent humanoid each week. The brain must be consumed within 5 minutes of the creature's death a gentle repose spell can extend this duration. Each day after one week in which Venom has not consumed a brain, he takes 1d4 points of Constitution damage and must make a Will save (DC = 15 +1 for every additional day beyond seven or fly into a mindless rage, hunting down any creature that appears to have a brain and attacking them. This state lasts until Venom either consumes a brain or dies. Venom cannot recover points of Constitution until he has consumed a fresh brain. ----- Any views on these I kinda like the claws and bite. Since every picture you see of venom is long teeth and big claws, but there is a suggestion to change it to a slam attack. Any ideas on that. Armor Class -Natural +4 Full Attack -Primary Claws (Same as Half-Dragon) -Secondary Bite (Same as Half-Dragon) ----- Since it's been awhile here is the standing Venom template Type -Aberration Movement -Webslinging (Su) As a move action, Venom can fire a line of webbing at a tree, building or other sturdy, stationary object. The object needs to be at least 15' above him/her, but can not be further than 60' above him/her. This allows him/her to move up to twice his or her normal land speed. Additional movement granted by spells or magic items, (such as that granted by Haste or Expeditious Retreat), do not contribute to the movement granted by this ability. Each round Venom may choose to fire an additional line of webbing for additional movement, or to land. Venom cannot create a line greater than 60', so if the webbing is attached to an object at a distance greater than 70' above the ground, Venom will suffer 1d6 points of falling damage per 10' fallen if they let go or are knocked off. The webbing can be cut with a weapon. It has an AC of 14, hardness of 2 and 8 hit points. It's more difficult to damage with a piercing or bludgeoning weapon, giving it DR 5/slashing. The webbing can be broken with a DC 20 strength check. Fire will destroy the webbing instantly. If the webbing is either cut or destroyed, assume Venom is at a distance of halfway between the anchor point and the ground to determine falling damage, (for example; Venom attaches the webbing 60' above him or her while standing on the ground. If the webbing were cut, Venom would fall from a distance of 30', taking 3d6 falling damage. If Venom were 20' above the ground level and attached the webbing 60' above that point, then he or she would fall a distance of 40'). The webbing can support up to a light load. Any additional weight, will cause the line to break. -Spiderclimb (Su) Venom can climb walls like a spider. This functions as the spider climb spell, but Venom can move at his land speed. Armor Class -Natural +4 Full Attack -Primary Claws (Same as Half-Dragon) -Secondary Bite (Same as Half-Dragon) Special Attacks Webbing is considered a light weapon -Web (Su) 8/hour as per web spell against single target save DC 10+Half HD+Con Mod (60ft Line) (Can be used once every 1d4 rnds) (up to 60ft) -Web Spray (Su) = 4 use of your webs per hour. As per web spell (Can be used once every 1d4 rnds) (30ft cone) DC to break loose of web Str Check DC 20 or Escape Artist DC 25 ***(Complete Warrior)Templated creature may take Ranged Disarm, Ranged Pin and Ranged Trip and need not have any of the prerequisites normally required for these feats to select them when using webs. Special Qualities -Darkvision 60ft (Ex) -Heals at Double Normal Rate per day (Ex) -Disguise Self (Ex) (Not an Illusion, Clothes only) -(-2 vs Sonic Spells) Double Damage against Sonic spell on failed saving throw (Ex) -Venom must consume the brain of at least one intelligent humanoid each week. The brain must be consumed within 5 minutes of the creature's death a gentle repose spell can extend this duration. Each day after one week in which Venom has not consumed a brain, he takes 1d4 points of Constitution damage and must make a Will save (DC = 15 +1 for every additional day beyond seven or fly into a mindless rage, hunting down any creature that appears to have a brain and attacking them. This state lasts until Venom either consumes a brain or dies. Venom cannot recover points of Constitution until he has consumed a fresh brain. Abilities -Str +8 -Dex +4 -Con +2 Skills -Hide +4 -Jump +4 -Move Silently +4 LA +3 |
| ToastedAmphibian01-03-08, 05:08 PM | Ok, spider climb is a spell. If he has that ability, it should be supernatural. WHy not just do this: Movement: -Climb: equal to land speed -Webslinging (Ex) As a move action, Venom can fire a line of webbing at a tree, building or other sturdy, stationary object. The object needs to be at least 15' above him/her, but can not be further than 60' above him/her. This allows him/her to move up to twice his or her normal land speed. Additional movement granted by spells or magic items, (such as that granted by Haste or Expeditious Retreat), do not contribute to the movement granted by this ability. ect ect... |
| Red_Wizards_Rock01-03-08, 05:12 PM | Venom is not a magical monster, but if I changed it to this -Wallcrawler (Ex) Venom can climb walls like a spider, but can move at his land speed. Like Spiderman, Venom will have thin sticky hairs at the tips of his fingers that will let him climb walls. It sounds more extraordinary to me. I'll add that into the ability to explain the (Ex) |
| Prime3201-03-08, 05:13 PM | One thing to decide is whether this is the actual Venom or just something from FR that happens to resemble him (in the latter case, it was likely ceated by the drow). If it isn't the real Venom, it was created by magic and has supernatural abilities. If it is the real Venom, it could still be supernatural... Spidey's powers would be extraordinary, because he was biten by a radioactive spider. I'm afraid you're out of date. In recent years it has been revealed that Spiderman has totemic spider-powers, and that the radiation just killed the spider after it bit him (and it bit him on purpose). He is the latest in a long line of Spider-men, the first being Anansi. Spidey attracts so many animal-themed villains because they subconsciously recognise his totem as true and theirs as false. As a result of these discoveries, Spider-man manifested organic webshooters. Some time later, he gained enhancements to all of his powers, as well as a set of "stingers" which protrude from his wrists (even Spidey doesn't understand why he has those things). This was around the time he started wearing this costume: http://www.spider-man.pl/info/img/spiderman_kostium_iron5.jpg |
| Red_Wizards_Rock01-03-08, 05:19 PM | No I've heard of that I just think it's a reaching story that ruins Spiderman. Since he's been around and done everything so they needed to add something new for him, but I'm ignore it, and using the spiderman that everyone knows and loves. This template won't have a stingers in the wrists. I didn't really think that would come up. lol But on another side Spidey's powers may become supernatural, but venoms cells were altered which lets him mimic his powers which are not a Supernatural effect it's more biological |
| ToastedAmphibian01-03-08, 05:32 PM | Okay, here is the barbarian rage feature: Rage (Ex) A barbarian can fly into a rage a certain number of times per day. In a rage, a barbarian temporarily gains a +4 bonus to Strength, a +4 bonus to Constitution, and a +2 morale bonus on Will saves, but he takes a -2 penalty to Armor Class. The increase in Constitution increases the barbarian’s hit points by 2 points per level, but these hit points go away at the end of the rage when his Constitution score drops back to normal. (These extra hit points are not lost first the way temporary hit points are.) While raging, a barbarian cannot use any Charisma-, Dexterity-, or Intelligence-based skills (except for Balance, Escape Artist, Intimidate, and Ride), the Concentration skill, or any abilities that require patience or concentration, nor can he cast spells or activate magic items that require a command word, a spell trigger (such as a wand), or spell completion (such as a scroll) to function. He can use any feat he has except Combat Expertise, item creation feats, and metamagic feats. A fit of rage lasts for a number of rounds equal to 3 + the character’s (newly improved) Constitution modifier. A barbarian may prematurely end his rage. At the end of the rage, the barbarian loses the rage modifiers and restrictions and becomes fatigued (-2 penalty to Strength, -2 penalty to Dexterity, can’t charge or run) for the duration of the current encounter (unless he is a 17th-level barbarian, at which point this limitation no longer applies). Basically, this adds almost no penalty to a venome type character. It dosnt even requier him to ATTACK ANYTHING, or even make him more inclined to attack things. Just prevents him from focusing and creating things. No big loss. The frenzied bezerker ability would cause him to kill things untill he runs out of things to kill, or the frenzy ends, insuring that he will find brains to eat. If you dont go that route, id recomend a modified version of thiss: Blood Frenzy Once per day a sahuagin that takes damage in combat can fly into a frenzy in the following round, clawing and biting madly until either it or its opponent is dead. It gains +2 Constitution and +2 Strength, and takes a -2 penalty to Armor Class. A sahuagin cannot end its frenzy voluntarily. Mabey something like: Brain Frenzy Upon failing a will save for the Brain Dependency quality, a Joined One must fly into a frenzy in the following round, clawing and biting madly at the first humanoid creature it can find until either it or its opponent is dead. It gains +2 Constitution and +2 Strength, and takes a -2 penalty to Armor Class. A Joined One cannot end its frenzy voluntarily, and automatically fails all further Brain Dependency saves untill it ends its Brain Frenzy by consuming a humanoid brain. Call this: Brain Dependancy (Ex) -Venom must consume the brain of at least one intelligent humanoid each week. The brain must be consumed within 5 minutes of the creature's death a gentle repose spell can extend this duration. Each day after one week in which Venom has not consumed a brain, he takes 1d4 points of Constitution damage and must make a Will save (DC = 15 +1 for every additional day beyond seven or fly into a mindless rage, hunting down any creature that appears to have a brain and attacking them. This state lasts until Venom either consumes a brain or dies. Venom cannot recover points of Constitution until he has consumed a fresh brain. I used "Joined One" as the template name in place of venom. Something a little borader than the inspirtion characters proper noun. |
| Prime3201-03-08, 05:40 PM | My point was simply that in a setting with as much magic as Forgotten Realms, making the abilities non-magical would be highly unusual. And Venom doesn't have stingers, since he copied Spider-man's powers before that. And is this the real Venom or an FR equivalent? It's important to know. |
| ToastedAmphibian01-03-08, 05:48 PM | No I've heard of that I just think it's a reaching story that ruins Spiderman. Since he's been around and done everything so they needed to add something new for him, but I'm ignore it, and using the spiderman that everyone knows and loves. This template won't have a stingers in the wrists. I didn't really think that would come up. lol But on another side Spidey's powers may become supernatural, but venoms cells were altered which lets him mimic his powers which are not a Supernatural effect it's more biological Regardless of the nature of venoms abilities iin the comics, your attempting to "Import" him into a COMPLETLY DIFFRENT MULTIVERSE. In most DND campagines, DNA, Radiation, Symbiotic Alien Organisms, SPACE, well, THEY DONT EXIST. In Venoms universe, thoes things exist, but common things in the DND MUltiverse, things like; Magic, Dragons, Mindflayers, Anti-Magic fields, Do not, Commonly, Exist. To make it fit in the DND Multiverse, your going to have to make it seem like its FROM the DND Multiverse. Your goign to need to alter the flavor and the nature of his abilites some, its inevitable. now, most, if not all, abberations have a mix of supernatural AND extrodanary abilites based on form. If they mostly had supernatural abilites, they would probably be called outsiders. If mostly extrodinary abilites, then they would probably be called monstrous humanoids, or animals. (Magical beasts if they where animal like but intelligent) Also, has it occured to either of you that venom is actually quite simmilar to an oversized Choker? http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/choker.htm Check the picture, im sure youll see a resemblance :} Climb Speed, Natural Armor, Obseenly fast, Stretchy long arms ending in sudo-talons, impresive stealth abilites, Incredible strength (For a small creature) and above average dex. Before size adjustments, it has +8 str +2 dex +2 con Oh ya, and spiny hands and feet that let it grip most surfaces. Seems venom is already native to DND after all :} |
| Red_Wizards_Rock01-03-08, 06:03 PM | A monstrous Spider uses these things as an (Ex) ability. I'm still using that as a base for the abilities also. Although I do see your point maybe SU's would be a better way to go for Webslinging and spiderclimb also. I'll edit those to be SU's Webslinging and Spiderclimb will be SU's going to edit the above to reflect that. fly into a mindless rage, hunting down any creature that appears to have a brain and attacking them Pretty much if he rages in the middle of the party he's going to attack a party member he doesn't get a choice to not attack someone unless they don't have a brain. He rages and kills until he eats a brain I'm not putting frenzy bersek up there that's more problem than it's worth. If the party has to kill him while he's raging than I want to see the party be able to kill him before he kills them. ----- Edit: Radiation, Symbiotic Alien Organisms, SPACE do exist for spelljammer purposes. We do multi-campaign interacts sometimes not often, but it has happened. FR has become the dumping ground for the universe. |
| ToastedAmphibian01-03-08, 08:48 PM | Pretty much if he rages in the middle of the party he's going to attack a party member he doesn't get a choice to not attack someone unless they don't have a brain. He rages and kills until he eats a brain I'm not putting frenzy bersek up there that's more problem than it's worth. If the party has to kill him while he's raging than I want to see the party be able to kill him before he kills them. I think your adressign me here, but im not sure, as i dont understand what your trying to say. If that paragraph is directed at someone else, please disregard. If the purpose of your paragraph is to say that this is inconvient, then yes, THAT IS KINDOF THE POINT. It is intended to be a drawback. Being able to rage indefinetly with a simple cond drain of about 2 (Which is completly negated by the con bonus of raging) is not a penalty, it is a boon, and a very large one at that. In other words, it greatly increases the power level of the template, you might as well just remove the brain dependancy and raise the strength by another +2 and give him a +2 bonus aginst will saves. (Oh, and drop the AC by 2, to be fair..... anyways, tangent) Edit: Radiation, Symbiotic Alien Organisms, SPACE do exist for spelljammer purposes. We do multi-campaign interacts sometimes not often, but it has happened. FR has become the dumping ground for the universe. Then perhapes there is a spelljammer forum where they will be more able to help you determine which abilites should be (Su) and which should be (Ex), as well as what the new creature type is for a humanoid creature that has been taken over by a parasitic/symbiotic alien lifeform of questionable sientience. I was under the impression that you were trying to make this compatible with a more standard DND setting. I stand corrected i guess. |
| Red_Wizards_Rock01-04-08, 12:53 AM | -Venom must consume the brain of at least one intelligent humanoid each week. The brain must be consumed within 5 minutes of the creature's death a gentle repose spell can extend this duration. Each day after one week in which Venom has not consumed a brain, he takes 1d4 points of Constitution damage and must make a Will save (DC = 15 +1 for every additional day beyond seven or fly into a mindless rage, hunting down any creature that appears to have a brain and attacking them. This state lasts until Venom either consumes a brain or dies. Venom cannot recover points of Constitution until he has consumed a fresh brain. Where are you getting the barbarian rage from? The fact is he has to attack everyone is a drawback until he eats a brain is a drawback. Frenzy is +6 strength and an extra attack and than he'll kill everyone else, and than eat. No on the frenzy if you are going to keep saying use frenzy than wait until I pass the brain dependency up. Which I'm sure it has been passed I'm ok with this. Then perhapes there is a spelljammer forum where they will be more able to help you determine which abilites should be (Su) and which should be (Ex), as well as what the new creature type is for a humanoid creature that has been taken over by a parasitic/symbiotic alien lifeform of questionable sientience. I was under the impression that you were trying to make this compatible with a more standard DND setting. I stand corrected i guess. This is a D&D forum this one is not specific to a certain one, and this commit is to late I already changed them to (SU) Prime32 had some good comments. |
| Prime3201-04-08, 06:22 AM | Toasted, he took out barbarian rage and added my version of the ability. It doesn't grant any bonuses. |
| Red_Wizards_Rock01-04-08, 08:38 PM | That is correct I removed any bonuses for the brain dependency. |
| Prime3201-05-08, 01:12 PM | As for the choker thing, I think you are confusing Venom with Carnage http://www.geocities.com/bulmasan/carnage/carnage_unleashed003.jpg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k27sXR--zt8 Now, to the ability scores again. Venom can lift 25 tons if he rolls a 20, but I'm not particularly familiar with Imperial measurements, and I'm not sure what Strength score this would give him. |
| Red_Wizards_Rock01-05-08, 03:21 PM | The stats I'm pretty much ok with this are all fair numbers. 25 tons is off the chart, but a +8 to str is fair can get him a str of 26 off the bat if he wanted it. They don't need special wording so I'm going to keep the stats. |
| Red_Wizards_Rock01-05-08, 03:21 PM | The stats I'm pretty much ok with this are all fair numbers. 25 tons is off the chart, but a +8 to str is fair can get him a str of 26 off the bat if he wanted it. They don't need special wording so I'm going to keep the stats. I'm sure you guys can discuss it for your Venoms though. |
| Prime3201-05-08, 03:55 PM | The stats I'm pretty much ok with this are all fair numbers. 25 tons is off the chart, but a +8 to str is fair can get him a str of 26 off the bat if he wanted it. They don't need special wording so I'm going to keep the stats. I'm sure you guys can discuss it for your Venoms though. Well, just remember that Carnage can lift 100 tons :D Though the symbiote has rejected its species habit of consuming its hosts, it still requires certain chemicals found in living brain tissue (most likely phenethylamine) in order to survive. When starved of these chemicals, the symbiote develops a mutable exoskeleton, allowing it to form its own solid body which it uses to hunt and kill prey without the assistance of a host.I was not aware of this. Brain Weakness will need adjusting... |
| Red_Wizards_Rock01-06-08, 12:48 PM | I know about it I saw it back when I made this template. I just didn't want to add it in, because I didn't want to worry about it. |
| Prime3201-06-08, 01:45 PM | As for 25 tons, that would be double his maximum load. What strength score would you need for a max load of 12.5 tons? |
| Red_Wizards_Rock01-06-08, 05:19 PM | Strength of 51 or 52 should get him 12 tons |
| Rinian201-08-08, 04:31 AM | I think that because of the way that the symbiote's wallcrawling works, there should be some kind of bonus to any grappling attacks it performs. Also, I'm not sure how this would work, but the symbiote on various occassions has shown that it can sneak up on Spiderman, so perhaps a tremorsense dampening ability might be needed. Lolth is the Demon Queen of Spiders as well as the goddess of the drow, correct? I think she might have some kind of vested interest in the doings of one wearing a symbiote... |
| Prime3201-08-08, 12:29 PM | I think that because of the way that the symbiote's wallcrawling works, there should be some kind of bonus to any grappling attacks it performs. The only character who seems to get this is Cain (Kain?), a spider-clone with amplified powers (to show how much they're amplified, his spider-sense lets him see into the future). It might help resisting disarms, but Venom won't be wielding many weapons. Also, I'm not sure how this would work, but the symbiote on various occassions has shown that it can sneak up on Spiderman, so perhaps a tremorsense dampening ability might be needed. Not tremorsense - Spidey has a continuous foresight effect. Lolth is the Demon Queen of Spiders as well as the goddess of the drow, correct? I think she might have some kind of vested interest in the doings of one wearing a symbiote... I already mentioned that. Was this in response or did you miss my comment? Mind flayers are probably involved too... somehow... |
| Prime3201-08-08, 12:30 PM | As for the Strength thing, you could give Venom a +10 bonus on Strength-based checks. My first thought is "Hulking Hurler abuse", but really, that build can't get much more broken. |
| Red_Wizards_Rock01-08-08, 01:31 PM | Type -Aberration Movement -Webslinging (Su) As a move action, Venom can fire a line of webbing at a tree, building or other sturdy, stationary object. The object needs to be at least 15' above him/her, but can not be further than 60' above him/her. This allows him/her to move up to twice his or her normal land speed. Additional movement granted by spells or magic items, (such as that granted by Haste or Expeditious Retreat), do not contribute to the movement granted by this ability. Each round Venom may choose to fire an additional line of webbing for additional movement, or to land. Venom cannot create a line greater than 60', so if the webbing is attached to an object at a distance greater than 70' above the ground, Venom will suffer 1d6 points of falling damage per 10' fallen if they let go or are knocked off. The webbing can be cut with a weapon. It has an AC of 14, hardness of 2 and 8 hit points. It's more difficult to damage with a piercing or bludgeoning weapon, giving it DR 5/slashing. The webbing can be broken with a DC 20 strength check. Fire will destroy the webbing instantly. If the webbing is either cut or destroyed, assume Venom is at a distance of halfway between the anchor point and the ground to determine falling damage, (for example; Venom attaches the webbing 60' above him or her while standing on the ground. If the webbing were cut, Venom would fall from a distance of 30', taking 3d6 falling damage. If Venom were 20' above the ground level and attached the webbing 60' above that point, then he or she would fall a distance of 40'). The webbing can support up to a light load. Any additional weight, will cause the line to break. -Spiderclimb (Su) Venom can climb walls like a spider. This functions as the spider climb spell, but Venom can move at his land speed. Armor Class -Natural +4 Full Attack -Primary Claws (Same as Half-Dragon) -Secondary Bite (Same as Half-Dragon) Special Attacks Webbing is considered a light weapon -Web (Su) 8/hour as per web spell against single target save DC 10+Half HD+Con Mod (60ft Line) (Can be used once every 1d4 rnds) (up to 60ft) -Web Spray (Su) = 4 use of your webs per hour. As per web spell (Can be used once every 1d4 rnds) (30ft cone) DC to break loose of web Str Check DC 20 or Escape Artist DC 25 ***(Complete Warrior)Templated creature may take Ranged Disarm, Ranged Pin and Ranged Trip and need not have any of the prerequisites normally required for these feats to select them when using webs. Special Qualities -Darkvision 60ft (Ex) -Heals at Double Normal Rate per day (Ex) -Disguise Self (Ex) (Not an Illusion, Clothes only) -(-2 vs Sonic Spells) Double Damage against Sonic spell on failed saving throw (Ex) -Venom must consume the brain of at least one intelligent humanoid each week. The brain must be consumed within 5 minutes of the creature's death a gentle repose spell can extend this duration. Each day after one week in which Venom has not consumed a brain, he takes 1d4 points of Constitution damage and must make a Will save (DC = 15 +1 for every additional day beyond seven or fly into a mindless rage, hunting down any creature that appears to have a brain and attacking them. This state lasts until Venom either consumes a brain or dies. Venom cannot recover points of Constitution until he has consumed a fresh brain. Abilities -Str +8 -Dex +4 -Con +2 Skills -Hide +4 -Jump +4 -Move Silently +4 LA +3 Any more suggestions, and rewording ideas before I take this, and see how it runs? |
| Prime3201-08-08, 01:41 PM | You could keep the light load for webbing, but calculate it from Constitution, not Strength. |
| Xenobody01-08-08, 03:48 PM | Due to the alien nature of the Venom symbiont, it's powers and abilities do seem to fall under the category of extraordinary. Claws and teeth aside, Venom is known to produce psuedopods and tendrils, capable of slashing, grappling and pummeling his opponents. It might be simpler to grant the symbiont a claw/slam attack to indicate this effect and perhaps the benefit of the Improved Grab ability. Perhaps the effects of the Darkstalker feat would be appropriate, granting the symbiont their hide/move silently skills against creatures with extrasensory abilities such tremorsense, blindsight, etc. Vulnerability to sonic and fire effects would be appropriate, failed save or not. Those are basic weaknesses Venom has pretty much always had. Honestly, Marvel's symbiotes grant too wide a variety of abilities to be really appropriate for D&D, at least at early levels. One could break it up into aseries of variant templates to cover the full gamut of options. Or perhaps a basic template with feats to improve or add abilities to it, as the symbiont unlocks its potential. Or a bloodline, even. Oh, and the symbiont should refer to themselves in the plural. More a flavour issue, but important :D. Just my thoughts on the matter. |
| Red_Wizards_Rock01-11-08, 02:06 PM | Final Venom is LA +3 to low or do you think it should be LA+4? Type -Aberration Movement -Webslinging (Su) As a move action, Venom can fire a line of webbing at a tree, building or other sturdy, stationary object. The object needs to be at least 15' above him/her, but can not be further than 60' above him/her. This allows him/her to move up to twice his or her normal land speed at average maneuverability. Additional movement granted by spells or magic items, (such as that granted by Haste or Expeditious Retreat), do not contribute to the movement granted by this ability. Each round Venom may choose to fire an additional line of webbing for additional movement, or to land. Venom cannot create a line greater than 60', so if the webbing is attached to an object at a distance greater than 70' above the ground, Venom will suffer 1d6 points of falling damage per 10' fallen if they let go or are knocked off. The webbing can be cut with a weapon. It has an AC of 14, hardness of 2 and 8 hit points. It's more difficult to damage with a piercing or bludgeoning weapon, giving it DR 5/slashing. The webbing can be broken with a DC 20 strength check. Fire will destroy the webbing instantly. If the webbing is either cut or destroyed, assume Venom is at a distance of halfway between the anchor point and the ground to determine falling damage, (for example; Venom attaches the webbing 60' above him or her while standing on the ground. If the webbing were cut, Venom would fall from a distance of 30', taking 3d6 falling damage. If Venom were 20' above the ground level and attached the webbing 60' above that point, then he or she would fall a distance of 40'). The webbing can support up to a light load. Any additional weight, will cause the line to break. -Spiderclimb (Su) Venom can climb walls like a spider. This functions as the spider climb spell, but Venom can move at his land speed. Armor Class -Natural +4 Full Attack -Primary Claws (Same as Half-Dragon) (Both attacks use full base attack) (Both attacks use full base attack, but does not receive additional attacks from a high base attack bonus when using natural weapons.) -Secondary Bite (Same as Half-Dragon) (Full base attack -5 penalty to attack unless you have Multi-attack feat which lowers the penalt to -2) 9full base attack -5 penalty to attack unless you have Multi-attack feat which lowers the penalty to -2. Does not receive additional attacks from a high base attack bonus when using natural weapons.) Special Attacks Webbing is considered a light weapon -Web (Su) 8/hour as per web spell against single target save DC 10+Half HD+Con Mod (60ft Line) (Can be used once every 1d4 rnds) (up to 60ft) -Web Spray (Su) = 2 use of your webs per hour. As per web spell (Can be used once every 1d4 rnds) (30ft cone) DC to break loose of web Str Check DC 20 or Escape Artist DC 25 ***(Complete Warrior)Templated creature may take Ranged Disarm, Ranged Pin and Ranged Trip and need not have any of the prerequisites normally required for these feats to select them when using webs. Special Qualities -Darkvision 60ft (Ex) -Heals at Double Normal Rate per day (Ex) -Disguise Self (Ex) (Not an Illusion, Clothes only) -(-2 vs Sonic Effects) Double Damage against Sonic spell on failed saving throw (Ex) -(-2 vs Fire Effects) -Venom must consume the brain of at least one intelligent humanoid each week. The brain must be consumed within 5 minutes of the creature's death a gentle repose spell can extend this duration. Each day after one week in which Venom has not consumed a brain, he takes 1d4 points of Constitution damage and must make a Will save (DC = 15 +1 for every additional day beyond seven or fly into a mindless rage, hunting down any creature that appears to have a brain and attacking them. This state lasts until Venom either consumes a brain or dies. Venom cannot recover points of Constitution until he has consumed a fresh brain. Abilities -Str +8 -Dex +4 -Con +2 Skills -Hide +4 -Jump +4 -Move Silently +4 LA +3 |