High-ECL Races for Sorcerers [Archive] - Wizards Community

High-ECL Races for Sorcerers [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Germytech
03-22-07, 11:57 AM I have heard of the sylph from Monster Manual II. 3 Outsider Hit Die
+4 Level Adjustment
Casts as a sorcerer equal to HD+4 (not just as an Xth-level sorcerer, as are rakshasas, etc.)
Other abilitiesA ECL 7th, casts as a 6th-level sorcerer. Pretty good.

The key here is that this is a good sorcerer race, with an effective +1 LA with regards to spellcasting.

Are there any other races with a similar mechanic? Either casting with a sorcerer level greater than the HD or based on a bonus to the HD, in order to partially overcome the LA?
The_Shaman
03-22-07, 09:26 PM Well, the Couatl has slightly more sorcerer "levels" than their LA, but it's still a rather stacked trade... So does the drider (LA +4, caster level 6), and I think the Weirds from Frostburn had something similar (but imo they were almost or fully epic).
Gharlane
03-22-07, 09:34 PM Neither the Aurak Draconian (Dragonlance campaign setting) nor the Arcanoloth (MM II) meet your criteria but they are both excellent sorcerous races to play (see my signature for my monster class versions).

While there are some races that get casting higher than their HD (e.g., the Ursinal from Book of Exalted Deeds), I'm pretty sure that the Slyph is the only sorcerous one.

This does not mean the Sylph is designed particularly well. It would be better off having around the same ECL but higher HD and lower LA.
Kresalak
03-22-07, 09:44 PM I think the Sylph is designed amazingly well in that being one only forces you to suck a lot (loss of 4 hit dice) instead of completely.
Nat_20
03-22-07, 10:04 PM Rakshasa's are good from what i remember, dont their HD stack with sorcerer class levels when determining caster lvl and spells known?
Kresalak
03-22-07, 10:18 PM Yeah, but they're 7 levels behind on Sorcerer casting.
Barloch
03-22-07, 10:29 PM The red dragon redspawn arcaniss from MM IV might be something to look at, its got natural sorcerer levels and iirc some buff to certain spells, fire type I think? Maybe I don't recall exactly.
runestar
03-23-07, 07:32 AM I think the Sylph is designed amazingly well in that being one only forces you to suck a lot (loss of 4 hit dice) instead of completely.
Yeah, but you can continue taking outsider HD all the way(which is so superior to sorc class lvs).:)

MM2 also has the spellweaver, which casts as a sorc 2 lvs higher than its monstrous HD, but unfortunately, it has a LA of +7. It does have the cool ability to quicken quite a few low lv spells though.:P
The_Shaman
03-23-07, 09:44 AM If the aranea had 1 more sorcerer level, I think it would be a great choice. Not exactly bad now either, but still...
darrylhaines
03-23-07, 10:08 AM Rakshasa's are good from what i remember, dont their HD stack with sorcerer class levels when determining caster lvl and spells known?

It's there monster HD (7) + LA 7 = 14 ECL with 7 level's of spell casting (I think..I don't have the Monster manaul with me)

I'm gonna have to speak to my friend as were in an epic campaign and he just created a lv25 pc but only did the Rakshasa as a +7 and then added 18 levels of sorceror onto it. Have a look at the beginning of the monster manaul at what it says about Level ajustment and ECL, it's monster HD's + Level Ajustment.
Germytech
03-23-07, 03:46 PM I took a look at the redspawn arcaniss, but it doesn't quite fit, either. 8 HD, LA +4, but casts as only a 6th-level sorcerer.

The aranea is one of my favorites, but the LA +4 is too big a hit.

Hm, that's too bad that there really are not many other options.
Silvercrys
03-23-07, 03:56 PM I have heard of the sylph from Monster Manual II. 3 Outsider Hit Die
+4 Level Adjustment
Casts as a sorcerer equal to HD+4 (not just as an Xth-level sorcerer, as are rakshasas, etc.)
Other abilitiesA ECL 7th, casts as a 6th-level sorcerer. Pretty good.

The key here is that this is a good sorcerer race, with an effective +1 LA with regards to spellcasting.

Are there any other races with a similar mechanic? Either casting with a sorcerer level greater than the HD or based on a bonus to the HD, in order to partially overcome the LA?

:confused:

If this is true then you added something wrong about the casting...

You said HD + 4 right?

3 HD + 4 =/= 6

So either they don't have an LA when it comes to casting (as you put it) or you read something wrong.
Germytech
03-23-07, 04:43 PM You're right: I believe it's LA +5.
runestar
03-23-07, 10:43 PM It's ECL8, and casts as a 7th lv sorc. Though its entry mentions it can be advanced to 9HD, the rules of progression does mention that this is simply a guideline, and it is not impossible to advance well beyond the maximum advancement guidelines provided.:)
Germytech
03-25-07, 09:38 PM So, any others?

In fact, are there any other races that specifically say something akin to "casts as a sorcerer of a level equal to their HD?"

Instead of "casts as an xth-level sorcerer?"
runestar
03-26-07, 12:49 AM Well, I only know of the spellweaver and sylph.:(

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Germytech 03-22-07, 11:57 AM	I have heard of the sylph from Monster Manual II. 3 Outsider Hit Die +4 Level Adjustment Casts as a sorcerer equal to HD+4 (not just as an Xth-level sorcerer, as are rakshasas, etc.) Other abilitiesA ECL 7th, casts as a 6th-level sorcerer. Pretty good. The key here is that this is a good sorcerer race, with an effective +1 LA with regards to spellcasting. Are there any other races with a similar mechanic? Either casting with a sorcerer level greater than the HD or based on a bonus to the HD, in order to partially overcome the LA?
The_Shaman 03-22-07, 09:26 PM	Well, the Couatl has slightly more sorcerer "levels" than their LA, but it's still a rather stacked trade... So does the drider (LA +4, caster level 6), and I think the Weirds from Frostburn had something similar (but imo they were almost or fully epic).
Gharlane 03-22-07, 09:34 PM	Neither the Aurak Draconian (Dragonlance campaign setting) nor the Arcanoloth (MM II) meet your criteria but they are both excellent sorcerous races to play (see my signature for my monster class versions). While there are some races that get casting higher than their HD (e.g., the Ursinal from Book of Exalted Deeds), I'm pretty sure that the Slyph is the only sorcerous one. This does not mean the Sylph is designed particularly well. It would be better off having around the same ECL but higher HD and lower LA.
Kresalak 03-22-07, 09:44 PM	I think the Sylph is designed amazingly well in that being one only forces you to suck a lot (loss of 4 hit dice) instead of completely.
Nat_20 03-22-07, 10:04 PM	Rakshasa's are good from what i remember, dont their HD stack with sorcerer class levels when determining caster lvl and spells known?
Kresalak 03-22-07, 10:18 PM	Yeah, but they're 7 levels behind on Sorcerer casting.
Barloch 03-22-07, 10:29 PM	The red dragon redspawn arcaniss from MM IV might be something to look at, its got natural sorcerer levels and iirc some buff to certain spells, fire type I think? Maybe I don't recall exactly.
runestar 03-23-07, 07:32 AM	I think the Sylph is designed amazingly well in that being one only forces you to suck a lot (loss of 4 hit dice) instead of completely. Yeah, but you can continue taking outsider HD all the way(which is so superior to sorc class lvs).:) MM2 also has the spellweaver, which casts as a sorc 2 lvs higher than its monstrous HD, but unfortunately, it has a LA of +7. It does have the cool ability to quicken quite a few low lv spells though.:P
The_Shaman 03-23-07, 09:44 AM	If the aranea had 1 more sorcerer level, I think it would be a great choice. Not exactly bad now either, but still...
darrylhaines 03-23-07, 10:08 AM	Rakshasa's are good from what i remember, dont their HD stack with sorcerer class levels when determining caster lvl and spells known? It's there monster HD (7) + LA 7 = 14 ECL with 7 level's of spell casting (I think..I don't have the Monster manaul with me) I'm gonna have to speak to my friend as were in an epic campaign and he just created a lv25 pc but only did the Rakshasa as a +7 and then added 18 levels of sorceror onto it. Have a look at the beginning of the monster manaul at what it says about Level ajustment and ECL, it's monster HD's + Level Ajustment.
Germytech 03-23-07, 03:46 PM	I took a look at the redspawn arcaniss, but it doesn't quite fit, either. 8 HD, LA +4, but casts as only a 6th-level sorcerer. The aranea is one of my favorites, but the LA +4 is too big a hit. Hm, that's too bad that there really are not many other options.
Silvercrys 03-23-07, 03:56 PM	I have heard of the sylph from Monster Manual II. 3 Outsider Hit Die +4 Level Adjustment Casts as a sorcerer equal to HD+4 (not just as an Xth-level sorcerer, as are rakshasas, etc.) Other abilitiesA ECL 7th, casts as a 6th-level sorcerer. Pretty good. The key here is that this is a good sorcerer race, with an effective +1 LA with regards to spellcasting. Are there any other races with a similar mechanic? Either casting with a sorcerer level greater than the HD or based on a bonus to the HD, in order to partially overcome the LA? :confused: If this is true then you added something wrong about the casting... You said HD + 4 right? 3 HD + 4 =/= 6 So either they don't have an LA when it comes to casting (as you put it) or you read something wrong.
Germytech 03-23-07, 04:43 PM	You're right: I believe it's LA +5.
runestar 03-23-07, 10:43 PM	It's ECL8, and casts as a 7th lv sorc. Though its entry mentions it can be advanced to 9HD, the rules of progression does mention that this is simply a guideline, and it is not impossible to advance well beyond the maximum advancement guidelines provided.:)
Germytech 03-25-07, 09:38 PM	So, any others? In fact, are there any other races that specifically say something akin to "casts as a sorcerer of a level equal to their HD?" Instead of "casts as an xth-level sorcerer?"
runestar 03-26-07, 12:49 AM	Well, I only know of the spellweaver and sylph.:(