Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Spikes01k 03-18-07, 08:36 PM	Hill Orcs Hill Orcs are a product of a tribe of Goliaths that lived closer to the bottom of mountains than most. They opened their ranks and adpoted half orcs and some humans into their tribe. Over the years with the mixing of the bloods and traditions they became what is now known as Hill Orcs. Currently there are only a dozen tribes, but they are very big existing near mountain bases. There are rumors of some dwarven blood being mixed in with them due to the trading relations between them but that has never been confirmed. Description and Over View Physical Description Male hill orcs look a great deal like half orcs in shape but with an equivalent stocky build of a dwarf, when compared to humans and dwarfs. The head is often very goliath like but with any number of half orcish traits. They have little hair, mostly on the head, but occasionally a beard and thin hair on the back. The hair can be brown, grey, or black. The skin tends to mimic the texture and color of goliaths. Females can be very hard to judge from goliath females. Their body tends to be a good-deal less stocky than the males but still happen to function in the same way. Female's hair is defiantly half orcish in nature. Their head and body is very goliath like; orcish trates are much less common than males. A trained eye can note that all female ears are distinctly half orchis in nature. The main thing that defines hill orc females from goliaths is their forearms, hands, shins, and feat are all unusually large and stocky, and always has some sort of hair growing from them. Culture and Religion Their culture tends to mimic goliath's culture but with them entities being hill orcs instead, and some other variants of belief to better fit their geography. Over View Hill orcs are stocky creatures who take great joy in physical activity and stature. They are strong fighters and know how to work their strengths but some tend to be a little more focused battle than golitaths. A great deal of half ors who joined their tribe were abandoned by their orc family and held a hatred toward their orcish trates and culter, thus why they sot to join a different one, and thus they abandoned their goblinoid ancestry. They don't hate themselves and they do have a great deal of their orcish traits; so their feelings about their ancestry is mixed, they adopted the name hill orcs in an attempt to try and start giving a good name to orcs and to start leading them by example. Like goliaths they are very competitive and love proving them selves physically superior to each other in many tasks. However these competitions are usually just for boasting rights at most. Even though most hill orcs will not look for a fight, when one is confronted they do enjoy the battle. The tribes are very closely knitted and work effectively together, however they do put a great deal of value on a small section of personal space and land. Each hill orc or hill orc clutch has in their triable land a small space, which is the bar minimum space they need to live, that they hold in high regard and is seen as very personal space. The one sure way of aggrivating them is by disrespecting their personal space. However that space specificly is not the issue but rather the general actual amount of space. If a member of the tribe needs space for a growing family the entire tribe is usually willing to move their personal space to accommodate. In a few sparse occasions an alpha minded hill orc will be encroached apon and will have too large a family that it just has a great connection to each other that he will refuse to move. When this happens the rest will accommodate him or her as well, but this is but the sign of the end to his stay in that tribe. After two or three occasions the leader or another person with authority to exile a member, will come up to them and question them on the situation. In most of these occasions this will likely lead to a form of exile. The younger individuals will be forced to leave as an exile for a number of years. The older ones, who maybe have become hardened with age, will be given a good land to start up their own tribe. actual exile is not as common with hill orcs as with goliaths but these temporary exiles are very common in practice. Hill orcs are also nomadic like goliaths, and share alot of the same psychology as goliaths. Hill orcs are still nomadic like goliaths but they have a stronger focus on metal working and farming. Having more land to work with, they tend to set up many hidden farms and smithing caves at their many areas of settlement. However they still need to trade with dwares. In most of the other ways their life is a reflection of their goliath ancestry. Relations Hill orcs are more in touch with the world than goliaths. They too tend to act friendly and open to anyone they meet out in the world with the exception of normal orcs, goblinoids, drow, and giants. Every Hill Orc is usually willing to give anyone a chance but they are wirry of the drow, goblinoids, and giant races. If any of these races were to wonder into their tribe with out notice, they would promptly tell them or motion them to leave under threat of force and be willing to host discretions outside tribal lands if they leave peacefully. If any of the non goblinoid races were to wonder into tribal land they would be greeted warmly by the owner of that specific personal space and told to respect the land. Hill orcs hold half orcs, goliaths, and dwarves in high regard. A hill orc who has become close to a member of one of these races tend to treat them as a member of their own tribe. Hill Orc Lands Hill orcs usually will have a set number of mountains in a mountain range from which they will move from base to base to different settlements. Unless they are rather neutral or evil in nature they will be sure to not take another hill orc trib's settlement. Each tribe thus far usually has about 6-8 settlements between 4-6 moutains to their own at any given time. Alignment: Hill orcs tend to be good or neutral with good intentions toward their own tribe, although they can be any. Evil hill orcs are usually exiled if they are not sneaky enough to hide their nature. Hill Orcs Characteristics *+2 Str, -2 Dex, -2 Int, -2 Wis *Movement 30ft *Medium Size *Humanoid *Dark Vision 60ft * Optimal Build: The benefits of this racial trait stack with the effects of powers, abilities, and spells that change the subject’s size category, but not with the feat monkey grip and other feats that allow using larger weapons.The physical stature of hill orc lets them function in many ways as if they were one size category larger; but like powerful build they are only treated as one size large when dealing with large weapons, when they are becoming immune to special abilities, and eventually with opposed rolls where size is a matter. At 1 hit die a hill orc can use weapons designed for a creature one size larger without penalty. However, his space and reach remain those of a creature of his actual size. A hill orc is also considered to be one size larger when determining whether a creature’s special attacks based on size (such as improved grab or swallow whole) can affect him. After obtaining 3 hit die whenever a hill orc is subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for an opposed check (such as during grapple checks, bull rush attempts, and trip attempts), the hill orc is treated as one size larger if doing so is advantageous to him. Optimal build should be treated as powerful build from here on and be treated as monkey grip when meeting the prerequisites for feats and prestige classes. At 21 hit die a hill orc does not need to meet the requirements for strength for the "Weild Oversized Weapon" epic feat; although the ability to use large weapons does not stack with optimaled build they do gain the other bonuses. *+2 racial bonus to Spot and Listen; hill orcs may not be the wises of beings but they are no less observant than anyone else. *Weapon Proficiencies: Axes, throwing and light, Battleaxe, and Greataxe *Automatic Language: Common, and Gol-Kaa. Bonus Languages: Any (other than secret languages, such as Druidic). See the Speak Language skill. *Favored Class: Barbarian Edit: Version 1 Powerful build, no Optimal Build Optimal Build v2: The physical stature of an hill orc lets him function in many ways as if he were one size category larger as they gain experience. At 1 hit die a hill orc can use a large sized weapons with a -1 to hit, but they still have to use a one handed weapon two handed and treat a light weapon as a one handed weapon. This can only be applied to the weapon in their primary hand or a large one handed weapon held two handed. This does not allow them to use a normal two handed weapon one handed. However, his space & reach remain those of a creature of his actual size. A hill orc is also considered to be one size larger when determining whether a creature’s special attacks based on size (such as improved grab or swallow whole) can affect him. The benefits of this racial trait stack with the effects of powers, abilities, & spells that change the subject’s size category. This ability works with monkey grip in very specific ways, If you have the monkey grip feat this ability allows you to wield large size weapons in your primary hand as if you were a large creature with only a -1 to hit. At 3 hit die whenever an hill orc is subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for an opposed check (such as during grapple checks, bull rush attempts, & trip attempts), the hill orc is treated as one size larger if doing so is advantageous to him. At 5 hit die of progression a hill orc can use weapons designed for a creature one size larger without penalty, but only if they wield a large one handed weapon two handed, and treat a light weapon as a one handed. If they have the monkey grip feat optimal build now changes to powerful build and is treated as such. Optimal Build Version 3 A hill orc can wield weapons of a large size with no penalty, however they are still restricted to wielding a large one handed weapon two handed, and a light weapon as if it were a one handed weapon, however this is only with a weapon being used by their primary hand. This does not allow them to use a normal two handed weapon one handed. However, his space & reach remain those of a creature of his actual size. A hill orc is also considered to be one size larger when determining whether a creature’s special attacks based on size (such as improved grab or swallow whole) can affect him. The benefits of this racial trait stack with the effects of powers, abilities, & spells that change the subject’s size category. Whenever an hill orc is subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for an opposed check (such as during grapple checks, bull rush attempts, & trip attempts), the hill orc is treated as one size larger if doing so is advantageous to him. If they have the monkey grip feat optimal build now changes to powerful build and is treated as such. Optimal Build Version 4 At 1 hit die a hill orc can use a large sized weapons with a -1 to hit, but they still have to use a one handed weapon two handed and treat a light weapon as a one handed weapon. This can only be applied to the weapon in their primary hand or a large one handed weapon held two handed. This does not allow them to use a normal two handed weapon one handed. However, his space & reach remain those of a creature of his actual size. A hill orc is also considered to be one size larger when determining whether a creature’s special attacks based on size (such as improved grab or swallow whole) can affect him. The benefits of this racial trait stack with the effects of powers, abilities, & spells that change the subject’s size category. This ability works with monkey grip in very specific ways, If you have the monkey grip feat this ability allows you to wield large size weapons in your primary hand as if you were a large creature with only a -1 to hit. At 3 hit die whenever an hill orc is subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for an opposed check (such as during grapple checks, bull rush attempts, & trip attempts), the hill orc is treated as one size larger if doing so is advantageous to him. A hill orc can also use weapons designed for a creature one size larger without penalty, but only if they wield a large one handed weapon two handed, and treat a light weapon as a one handed. If they have the monkey grip feat optimal build now changes to powerful build and is treated as such. Version 5 <as above>
morbid_freak 03-18-07, 09:02 PM	Seems balanced. Maybe a little underpowered for its stat penalties.
Spikes01k 03-18-07, 09:07 PM	Seems balanced. Maybe a little underpowered for its stat penalties. Powerful Build is VERY powerful
morbid_freak 03-18-07, 09:09 PM	Powerful Build is VERY powerful Is that the ability that allows larger weapons? If so, ok then!
Spikes01k 03-18-07, 09:19 PM	Is that the ability that allows larger weapons? If so, ok then! Count as large with weapons, opposed grapple, bull rush, and trip, if it is to their benefit. People read into it that they count as large, period, except if they want to be counted as medium. Plus magical things that increase/decrease them in size stack with this ability. So if they are made large, they count as huge; if you are made small, they count as medium.
Skrillex 03-18-07, 09:34 PM	I love this race, very well done. I'd like to know however, how they interact with other races?
Spikes01k 03-18-07, 09:51 PM	I love this race, very well done. I'd like to know however, how they interact with other races? Ah Good Question. Give me a few.
Skrillex 03-18-07, 11:44 PM	Ah Good Question. Give me a few. Even better, very well done. I love it.
Spikes01k 03-18-07, 11:56 PM	Even better, very well done. I love it. Very glad you like it.
MasonMurdoc 03-19-07, 11:35 AM	These are pretty awesome. Mind if I use them in my world?
Spikes01k 03-19-07, 12:12 PM	These are pretty awesome. Mind if I use them in my world? Go ahead, just give me credit for writing it.
MasonMurdoc 03-19-07, 12:43 PM	I will Thanks
Red_Rabbit 03-19-07, 01:03 PM	Nice, but if I used it I'd take off one or two of those -2 stat penalties. Seems to me like the stat penalty is higher than what the race offers. The Rabbit
enygmatic_me 03-19-07, 01:09 PM	Out of curiosity, why doesn't this orc race speak orc?
Spikes01k 03-19-07, 01:58 PM	Nice, but if I used it I'd take off one or two of those -2 stat penalties. Seems to me like the stat penalty is higher than what the race offers. The Rabbit That would defiantly be broken by the rules in the DMG and making new races. Str is worth the -2 to wis and int; powerful build is worth the left over from -2 to wis and int, -2 dex and the staring good bonus feat. If anything I should probably give them the movement that dwarves have.
Spikes01k 03-19-07, 02:02 PM	Out of curiosity, why doesn't this orc race speak orc? A great deal of half ors who joined their tribe were abandoned by their orc family and held a hatred toward their orcish trates and culter, thus why they sot to join a different one, and thus they abandoned their goblinoid ancestry. They don't hate themselves and they do have a great deal of their orcish traits; so their feelings about their ancestry is mixed, they adopted the name hill orcs in an attempt to try and start giving a good name orcs.
enygmatic_me 03-19-07, 02:06 PM	A great deal of half ors who joined their tribe were abandoned by their orc family and held a hatred toward their orcish trates and culter, thus why they sot to join a different one, and thus they abandoned their goblinoid ancestry. They don't hate themselves and they do have a great deal of their orcish traits; so their feelings about their ancestry is mixed, they adopted the name hill orcs in an attempt to try and start giving a good name orcs. Completely acceptable.
RobbyPants 03-19-07, 02:23 PM	I would consider giving it +4 Str, seeing as how that's the racial modifier for both orcs and goliaths... All in all, I like the flavor. What's the level adjustment for them (I must have missed it :P)?
Spikes01k 03-19-07, 03:14 PM	I would consider giving it +4 Str, seeing as how that's the racial modifier for both orcs and goliaths... All in all, I like the flavor. What's the level adjustment for them (I must have missed it :P)? Funny, no LA with my write up. They favored the half orc side of their ansectry, pluse the little bit of human, and possibly the dwarf, made it so that they didn't get more than a +2 to strength. LA Anaylasis +2 str is balanced bye the -2 int and wis with some left over to work with, wis and int is more costly than int and cha. Powerful Build is balanced by th -2 dex, their standard one good bonus feat, and the little remaining from the -2 int and wis LA 0
Spikes01k 03-19-07, 10:47 PM	Ok this should be a bit more balanced.
Spikes01k 03-20-07, 11:43 AM	Alright, with some wise instructions I have made some massive changes to the Hill Orcs I have given them an ability similar to powerful build but you will require getting to level 5 and purchasing the monkey grip feat. This should get ride of most balance issues keeping it a LA 0.
Ozzymandias 03-20-07, 11:56 AM	I'm curious: apart from the flavor of the race (which is very cool - did you design them to fit into a specific world, perhaps something else you've written about?), there doesn't seem to be much of an incentive to play them at all. I know that half-giants have an LA of +1 (which is not so much a problem at low levels, but a nuisance higher up, and can be dealt with through alternate rules), and I know that goliaths get the powerful build ability. What is the LA for a goliath? Why have this new race at all when there are already two other races that cover the abilities that this race seems to focus on? Beyond that, very nifty. I'll be considering something of the sort for my own world (the theme fits well with the concepts of my world).
Spikes01k 03-20-07, 12:28 PM	I'm curious: apart from the flavor of the race (which is very cool - did you design them to fit into a specific world, perhaps something else you've written about?), there doesn't seem to be much of an incentive to play them at all. I know that half-giants have an LA of +1 (which is not so much a problem at low levels, but a nuisance higher up, and can be dealt with through alternate rules), and I know that goliaths get the powerful build ability. What is the LA for a goliath? Why have this new race at all when there are already two other races that cover the abilities that this race seems to focus on? Beyond that, very nifty. I'll be considering something of the sort for my own world (the theme fits well with the concepts of my world). The Goliath is a LA 1, but really should be an LA 2 and maybe with out a -2 to dex I would allow it, but as written it is completely broken. I personally believe that nothing should get a LA, there should be a feat tree or a class with HD, BAB, skills, and a save progression. Otherwise it should be a LA 0, that is why I made these as a lesser Goliath for the game play.
DracoRuler 03-20-07, 01:22 PM	Okay, first I might just suggest that you re-read the Optimal Build description, I understand what you mean, but the text is a little hazy. I think this race, as it stands, is weak, even for LA 0. At first level, optimal build just provides a little immunity/resistance to things that probably aren't going to be a problem at this point anyway i.e. swallow whole, improved grab. And the larger weapon wielding only reduces the normal penalty by one (under the normal rules you can wield a weapon one size larger by increasing the "effort" light to one hand, one hand to two hand... and taking a -2 penalty). I'm going to ignore that you used the Wizard's ability bonus/penalty system, because that's your decision, but they take an addition -2 penalty to an ability score for what, darkvision? a +1 on attack rolls with weapons one size larger? Okay, so even if I take monkey grip, it still only reduces the penalty by 1 (at first level). So yes, it may scale with level, and it may be enhanced to near goliath heights, but much too little too late to keep you on par with other LA 0 melee types. So, in closing, i would suggest either beefing up your Optimal build, dumbing 1 ability penalty, or adding a few other flavorful, fluffy bonuses/abilities. Of course, you could always just disagree with me entirely and ignore everything I've just said, but that is your right. Hope that helps DR
Spikes01k 03-20-07, 01:31 PM	Okay, first I might just suggest that you re-read the Optimal Build description, I understand what you mean, but the text is a little hazy. I think this race, as it stands, is weak, even for LA 0. At first level, optimal build just provides a little immunity/resistance to things that probably aren't going to be a problem at this point anyway i.e. swallow whole, improved grab. And the larger weapon wielding only reduces the normal penalty by one (under the normal rules you can wield a weapon one size larger by increasing the "effort" light to one hand, one hand to two hand... and taking a -2 penalty). I'm going to ignore that you used the Wizard's ability bonus/penalty system, because that's your decision, but they take an addition -2 penalty to an ability score for what, darkvision? a +1 on attack rolls with weapons one size larger? Okay, so even if I take monkey grip, it still only reduces the penalty by 1 (at first level). So yes, it may scale with level, and it may be enhanced to near goliath heights, but much too little too late to keep you on par with other LA 0 melee types. So, in closing, i would suggest either beefing up your Optimal build, dumbing 1 ability penalty, or adding a few other flavorful, fluffy bonuses/abilities. Of course, you could always just disagree with me entirely and ignore everything I've just said, but that is your right. Hope that helps DR Yeah it helps, thank you. Maybe you can help me re-write Optimal build? Its my first draft of optimal build and some help would be nice. At level 1 Optimal build should make using large weapons at level one worth it, which monkey grip just didn't cut it. In most power attack damage dealing builds getting a large weapon at higher levels is the usual practice, but weather you get it full at level 1 or level 5 it wont cost you anything, you probably won't even need to buy completely new gear if you get monkey grip at level one or two. People tend to think that Powerful build alone, even with a -2 to a physical stat is still just to powerful. I might consider getting rid of the monkey grip requirement.
Spikes01k 03-21-07, 08:37 AM	I have made a compromise to some good points. I think I like the way I sort of re-wrote powerful build, and clearly defined its abilities better than the original write up.
DracoRuler 03-21-07, 12:40 PM	I really like this final version of Optimal build. Giving larger weapons at first level is not an overpowering ability (only 1 extra damage on average), and making them wait 'til 3rd level to get the various bonuses to all related stituations makes it pretty balanced, I think. The weapon proficiencies are a tad useless, as most Hill Orcs are going to be melee types with full marial weapon prof. anyways, but It's a very nice, if elf-ish, flavor. Now if you really want to be impressive, you could design some racial feats that enhance/play off of the "bigger than you" characteristic, just a thought. Glad to be of service DR
Spikes01k 04-09-07, 02:17 PM	Well I finish the physical description.