Ho.mo Superior [Archive] - Wizards Community

Ho.mo Superior [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Maraxus
04-27-07, 02:48 PM Hi, I'm thinking about a race idea for some time now, "Ho.mo Superior" aka "Übermensch". Maybe two somewhat similar variants, one being a race and one being an aquired template, so people (humans) can evolve into it, after meeting certain requirements.

Think 50% Nietzscheans (Rodenberry's Andromeda) and 50% Númenóreans (Tolkien).

A human subrace that is just "better" and "fitter", sticks out in every possible roll and is just plain good in surviving (wilderness and social). Other images should/could be will to power, personal perfection and mental/physical balance. Keeping a bit of Nietsche's philosophical flavor would be good, but loosely (remember it's a fantasy RPG).

Obviously should be, a bonus to every ability score but this does not look convincing to me, there needs to be more abilities.

I have some ideas in my mind allready but I'd like to make a little brainstorming first. So, what would your ideas be?
CryoSilver
04-27-07, 02:51 PM http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=836711
Sphere
04-27-07, 02:51 PM http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/racialParagonClasses.htm

My first thoughts
Maraxus
04-27-07, 03:08 PM No, just becouse it is a "better human", it's not the better human, I am looking for.

In no case, the Übermensch should require to feast upon the flesh of other humans, that's the exact opposite of what I'm looking for.
Spell-like abilities are ... not what I have in mind, too. It's too far away from a human.

Human Paragon is more what I'm looking for, but it's still much to minimal, I'm searching for something with a lot more impact. Partial spellcasting is a good idea, in order to make them possibly work with every class. In any way, the Human paragon meats none of the themes given above (survivability, will to power, personal perfection, etc.)
RobbyPants
04-27-07, 03:15 PM Human Paragon is more what I'm looking for <snip>
That would have been my suggestion.

Otherwise, just give them LA +1, +2 to two different abilities, a few skill boosts, and maybe a couple of other goodies. Perhaps let them choose where the two +2 bonuses go to their scores (that would make them truely versitile). Maybe another bonus feat (as opposed to spell-like abilities).

EDIT:
I love the filter trick.
ArochanoX
04-27-07, 03:17 PM I think that paragon classes nor spell-like abilities fit into nietzche's philosophy or the image of übermensch. Nietzche's one of the most known thoughts is that "What does not kill, makes you stronger" - basically that would be extra experience points if you took damage in an ecounter, but that's not a good ability in dnd terms. Hitler's übermensch was about breeding "good" humans since good humans (both intellectually and physically) make good children. In scifi literature, ho-mo superior is often telepathic or otherwise psionically focused.

The main question is that *why* ho.mo superior should be superior to all others?

Because it's more powerful doesn't fit because some ogres are definetely powerful, but they won't form superb nations etc.

These are traits that I think would fit this ho.mo superior or "human posterior".
- cunning intellectually (must think one step ahead all others in both social and logical situations [math physics]) (It's a shame that intelligence often just means bonus to spell saving throw DC:s)
- power through clever use of different abilities and available resources
- cunning physically (especially the übermench part) quite dull ability... stuff

Maybe in dnd terms:
+4 Int, +2 Str, +2 Con
+5 on diplomacy and gather information
Illogically logical planning: The more obscure and more way-over-head the battle plan is, the more presicely it should work as planned (still the rolls determine the outcome ofcourse). This is a very much DM judgement ability, which makes it difficult to adjust into LA.
Bonus feats: Alertness, Able Learner, Improved Initiative, Combat Expertise
LA +2
Willie the Duck
04-28-07, 01:54 AM These are traits that I think would fit this ho.mo superior or "human posterior".
- cunning intellectually (must think one step ahead all others in both social and logical situations [math physics]) (It's a shame that intelligence often just means bonus to spell saving throw DC:s)
- power through clever use of different abilities and available resources
- cunning physically (especially the übermench part) quite dull ability... stuff

I think you may have tapped into something. H. superior should have bonus to intelligence without the spell DC booster, and various "traits" that boost natural cunning and skill use. What does this sound like? What humans have always had: extra skill points and extra feats. Give them skill points per level and maybe a bonus feat or two from the fighter (caginess), skill boosting, and survival (endrurance, et al) categories, and maybe a +2 con or immunity to disease/resistance to poison to round out the +1la. Any more than that would subtract from the all-around-more-powerful character type, although higher LAs disfavor spellcasters and I picture this guy not being one. Perhaps a rogue/martial class or LE bard.

Remember, these figures are to be leaders among men. Leaders are rarely the same as what PCs would want as heroes.
Sphere
04-28-07, 02:17 AM No, just becouse it is a "better human", it's not the better human, I am looking for.

In no case, the Übermensch should require to feast upon the flesh of other humans, that's the exact opposite of what I'm looking for.
Spell-like abilities are ... not what I have in mind, too. It's too far away from a human.

Human Paragon is more what I'm looking for, but it's still much to minimal, I'm searching for something with a lot more impact. Partial spellcasting is a good idea, in order to make them possibly work with every class. In any way, the Human paragon meats none of the themes given above (survivability, will to power, personal perfection, etc.)

Oh, you want a paragon human rather than a human paragon then.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/paragonCreature.htm

It's an epic level template but it describes what you want.
ArochanoX
04-28-07, 02:42 AM Sphere, I think that Maraxus knows wotc-published material and it's possibilities very well. Paragon template with it's whopping LA of about +16 is just too much to use in normal play.

Some odd thoughts of self-perfection: usually evil allignment and some rituals that (after killing something) will make the ho.mo superior better for a while. Something like ritual that takes 1 full-round action and then gives nice insight bonuses on attack and damage rolls, caster level and all ability checks (including skills) the effect lasts for the rest of the ecounter.

It would fit nicely if the übermench thought that all other creatures were lower grade than them.

Willie the Duck, I like your ideas. Let's see what Maraxus thinks of them.
Jaxgaret
04-28-07, 02:53 AM Human Paragon is more what I'm looking for, but it's still much to minimal, I'm searching for something with a lot more impact. Partial spellcasting is a good idea, in order to make them possibly work with every class. In any way, the Human paragon meats none of the themes given above (survivability, will to power, personal perfection, etc.)

"Will to power" and "personal perfection" are IMO roleplay choices rather than racial features.

Survivability is easily summed up by +2 Con.

I'd say that the Human Paragon is very close to what you are looking for. If you want to convert it to an LA race instead of using RHD, make it a race with the normal Human bonuses (bonus feat, +1 sp/level, FC: Any) plus all of the Human Paragon bonuses (2nd bonus feat, +2 to one stat, Adaptive Learning, 2 spellcasting levels).

LA +2 sounds about right to me.

Note that this race would make good-to-excellent spellcasters, and bunk everything else.
Sphere
04-28-07, 03:48 AM Sphere, I think that Maraxus knows wotc-published material and it's possibilities very well. Paragon template with it's whopping LA of about +16 is just too much to use in normal play.

I am often reminded of things I have forgotten while reading the boards, and quite a bit of the time I learn new things too. The LA+15 is quite a bit, but I believe the template has the idea of what he is looking for.

Cut down the incite, competence, and luck bonuses to +1.
Lower ability score adjustments to +2.
Make the speed bonus +10'.
Remove the SPs completely.
Adjust the damage reduction down to 1/magic and the fire/cold resistance to 5.
Fast healing should be around 1 at best.
Change the spell resistance to its HD +5 or remove it.
And finally recalculate the LA.

That would make quite the Übermensch, while still being playable in a less than epic game.
Captain_Kobold
04-28-07, 07:36 AM Instead of set stat bonuses, how about bonuses orf +4, +2, +2, applied to the three lowest stats (with the +4 going to the lowest)?

This represents that whilst the superior race might peak at the same level as an exceptional human, they have bred out much of the weaknesses. An intelligent human might be as bright as a superior, but you just don't get stupid, or weak, or clumsy etc superiors.

The unbalanced nature of the stats should impact the LA less than straight bonuses, since there is less scope for optimisation: You aren't boosting a stat to ridiculous levels, you are just improving some of the less-used stats.

A couple of racial hit dice might also be in order to enforce the "Typical speciman of superior is . . . well, superior, to a typical human" idea.

They might not recieve the standard human racial bonuses: Its possible that in their quest to perfection, they have lost some of the original human traits of open-mindedness and flexibility.
AMGriffin
04-28-07, 11:10 AM After reading a little bit about what you want, I whipped up a quick writeup.
They have the same abilities as humans plus the following listed:

• +4 Consitution, +2 Wisdom, +2 Intelligence. H. Superior stand out amongst other humans for their remarkable resilence and sharp minds.
• Bonus feat: Iron Will, Diehard (Regardless if they meet prerequisites or not)
• Will to Power (Ex): H. Superior have the innate ability to overcome nearly anything they encounter through sheer force of will. 3 Times per day, a H. Superior may tap into their will to power. Whilst in their will to power state H. Superior gain a +2 bonus to any two ability scores they desire, as well as immunity to fear or fear-like effects, compulsion, and any sort of mind-altering effects, as well as a +6 bonus on saves against death. They may sustain this for as 3 rounds before being forced to make a will save, which is equal to 15+the total number of rounds they have been in the will to power state. If margin of their failed save exceeds 5, they suffer 1D4 temporary wisdom damage. If the margin of their failed save exceeds 10 they suffer 2D6 Permanent Wisdom damage and 1D6 permanent charisma damage (A little reference to Nietschze's mental breakdown ;))

• LA+2
Necromas
04-28-07, 12:11 PM I'm thinking LA +1...

+2 to all stats, naturally psionic, alertness, +1 to any 4 skills.
Luis_Dragunov
04-28-07, 03:14 PM Humans are known not for their hardness, strength or anything in particular other than their adaptiveness and aptitude towards learning. So all you really have to do is take the base human race and extrapolate.

Superior Sapiens

Medium Size
+6 Int
2 Extra Feats at 1st Level
+8 Skill Points at 1st Level and 2 extra skill points on every level thereafter
Spontaneous Aptitude (Sp/Ps): After spending ages adapting to a wild world filled with powers intially beyond their beckon, the advancement of the human race confers upon the Superior Sapiens an innate ability to cast or manifest one 1st-level spell or one 1st-level power of the player's choice, usable once per day as a spell/psionic-like ability.
Automatic Languages: As humans.
Favored Class: As humans.
LA: +2
CryoSilver
04-28-07, 03:15 PM Without an LA of at least +3, +6 Int is going to result in some very broken wizard humans.
Necromas
04-28-07, 03:19 PM Without an LA of at least +3, +6 Int is going to result in some very broken wizard humans.

If a wizard is going to give up an entire level of spells vs. a same level human wizard, (well, until he reaches level 20) then he deserves a couple extra bonus spells and a save DC boost.
JulesCARV
04-28-07, 03:28 PM No, just becouse it is a "better human", it's not the better human, I am looking for.

Could you clarify what this phrase means?
CryoSilver
04-28-07, 03:34 PM If a wizard is going to give up an entire level of spells vs. a same level human wizard, (well, until he reaches level 20) then he deserves a couple extra bonus spells and a save DC boost.

Which is why I said there should be an LA. I'm not sure what you're attempting to dispute.
Necromas
04-28-07, 03:37 PM Which is why I said there should be an LA. I'm not sure what you're attempting to dispute.

I'm disputing that LA 2 is bad enough for a wizard already, in response to your post saying that it should be at least 3.
AMGriffin
04-28-07, 03:40 PM Could you clarify what this phrase means?

It means he doesn't just want a Human that gets an insane amount of feats and skillpoints.
Luis_Dragunov
04-28-07, 07:26 PM Without an LA of at least +3, +6 Int is going to result in some very broken wizard humans.

A mere +3 to the intelligence score modifier is hardly worth a 6000 xp setback.

It means he doesn't just want a Human that gets an insane amount of feats and skillpoints.

And if you make a race that has nothing to do with humans then it's not a superior branch of the human race, it's a whole race entirely and if that's what the poster wants, why not just make it and give them human appearance? Give them darkvision and wings and golden eyes and slam attacks and make them have Powerful Build, why not, and call them humans, if that's what being a Ho.mo Superior is understood to be.
Maraxus
04-28-07, 07:40 PM Thanks for all the input, my first draw comes down here.

I really have to thing about that "Psychic Power" idea - psi-like abilities, I had said "Hell no" - but thinking about it again, it sounds quite interesting.

About the "No, just becouse it is a "better human", it's not the better human, I am looking for." quote:
As I said, I was thinking of a special flavor, the linked "better human" did not have.

Abilities:
+2 Str/Dex/Con/Wis/Cha. +4 Int. No ability score may be lower then 10 before this adjustments.

Base speed 40

Feats: 1 feat at first level, one additional from the following list at 1, 6, 11, 16:
Alertness, Able Learner, Athletic, Improved Initiative, Combat Expertise, Combat Reflexes, Diehard, Endurance, Great Fortitude, Iron Will, Leadership, Lighting Reflexes, Magical Aptitude, Negotiator, Persuasive, Run, Self-Sufficient, Toughness

Skills: +5 on diplomacy, gather information and survival.
+1 skill point each level (added to whatever class level he takes).
And 1 skill point each level, that can be added to every skill 1:1. For the purpose of maximum skill ranks, any skill is class skill for the H. Superior.

Saves: +3 racial on all saves and an additional +3 against natural diseases and poisons.

Special:

Faster healing (Ex): The Human Superior heals 1 HP per 2 class levels every hour in which he engange no exceptionally strenuous activity.

What does not kill you (Ex): When the character is brought into negative HP violently (therefor by an attacker or by uncontrolled enviromental threats), the number of hit point, he can go into negative Hitpoints without dieing increases by one, to a Maximum of one additional point for every level.

Damage reduction 1/-

Mass Attraction: +2 leadership score (followers only).

Will to Power (Ex): Human Superior have the innate ability to overcome nearly anything they encounter through sheer force of will. 3 times per day, a H. Superior may tap into their will to power. Whilst in their will to power state H. Superior gain a +2 bonus to any two ability scores they desire, as well as immunity to fear or fear-like effects and a +5 bonus on saves vs. compulsion, any sort of mind-altering effects and death effects. They may sustain this for as 3 rounds before being forced to make a will save each turn, which is equal to 15+the total number of rounds they have been in the will to power state. If margin of their failed save exceeds 5, they suffer 1D4 temporary wisdom damage. If the margin of their failed save exceeds 10 they suffer 2D6 Permanent Wisdom damage and 1D6 permanent charisma damage.

Psi-like abilities: (Int-based, ML = 1/2 char level, min 1)

At 1st level, the character can cast Telempathic Projection 3/day
At 1st level, he can use Far hand 3/day
At 4th level, he can use Read Thoughts 1/day
At 8th level, he can use Psionic Suggestion 1/day
At 12th level, he can use Telekinetic Force 1/day
At 18th level, he can use Hypercognition 1/week

PS: Level Adjustment ... somewher at the low end of +4 maybe? Or more like +3? Or something totally else?
CryoSilver
04-29-07, 02:57 AM A mere +3 to the intelligence score modifier is hardly worth a 6000 xp setback.

+8, if you assume he uses one of his 2 bonus feats for Spellcasting Prodigy.
Necromas
04-29-07, 07:21 AM A mere +3 to the intelligence score modifier is hardly worth a 6000 xp setback.

Actually, they'll be 320,000exp behind by level 20.

Even if your DM is crazy enough to use LA buyoff rules, it's still 13,000exp.
Luis_Dragunov
04-29-07, 09:36 AM +8, if you assume he uses one of his 2 bonus feats for Spellcasting Prodigy.

Well yeah, but we don't calculate LA based on what a player might do with his character, but on what direct advantages the template/race offers.

And Maraxus, that template surely fits with the human theme of exploration, ambitiousness and adaptation. Very good!
ArochanoX
05-04-07, 03:30 PM Maraxus, I like your base build. Those psi-like powers might be arguable, but I like your way of taking only telepathic and telekinetic abilities (suits h. superiors from Babylon 5 :D). I still would favor something like telepathy (about) 20ft, some powers like mind-link, suggestion, detect thoughts which you've picked too.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Maraxus 04-27-07, 02:48 PM	Hi, I'm thinking about a race idea for some time now, "Ho.mo Superior" aka "Übermensch". Maybe two somewhat similar variants, one being a race and one being an aquired template, so people (humans) can evolve into it, after meeting certain requirements. Think 50% Nietzscheans (Rodenberry's Andromeda) and 50% Númenóreans (Tolkien). A human subrace that is just "better" and "fitter", sticks out in every possible roll and is just plain good in surviving (wilderness and social). Other images should/could be will to power, personal perfection and mental/physical balance. Keeping a bit of Nietsche's philosophical flavor would be good, but loosely (remember it's a fantasy RPG). Obviously should be, a bonus to every ability score but this does not look convincing to me, there needs to be more abilities. I have some ideas in my mind allready but I'd like to make a little brainstorming first. So, what would your ideas be?
CryoSilver 04-27-07, 02:51 PM	http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=836711
Sphere 04-27-07, 02:51 PM	http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/racialParagonClasses.htm My first thoughts
Maraxus 04-27-07, 03:08 PM	No, just becouse it is a "better human", it's not the better human, I am looking for. In no case, the Übermensch should require to feast upon the flesh of other humans, that's the exact opposite of what I'm looking for. Spell-like abilities are ... not what I have in mind, too. It's too far away from a human. Human Paragon is more what I'm looking for, but it's still much to minimal, I'm searching for something with a lot more impact. Partial spellcasting is a good idea, in order to make them possibly work with every class. In any way, the Human paragon meats none of the themes given above (survivability, will to power, personal perfection, etc.)
RobbyPants 04-27-07, 03:15 PM	Human Paragon is more what I'm looking for <snip> That would have been my suggestion. Otherwise, just give them LA +1, +2 to two different abilities, a few skill boosts, and maybe a couple of other goodies. Perhaps let them choose where the two +2 bonuses go to their scores (that would make them truely versitile). Maybe another bonus feat (as opposed to spell-like abilities). EDIT: I love the filter trick.
ArochanoX 04-27-07, 03:17 PM	I think that paragon classes nor spell-like abilities fit into nietzche's philosophy or the image of übermensch. Nietzche's one of the most known thoughts is that "What does not kill, makes you stronger" - basically that would be extra experience points if you took damage in an ecounter, but that's not a good ability in dnd terms. Hitler's übermensch was about breeding "good" humans since good humans (both intellectually and physically) make good children. In scifi literature, ho-mo superior is often telepathic or otherwise psionically focused. The main question is that why ho.mo superior should be superior to all others? Because it's more powerful doesn't fit because some ogres are definetely powerful, but they won't form superb nations etc. These are traits that I think would fit this ho.mo superior or "human posterior". - cunning intellectually (must think one step ahead all others in both social and logical situations [math physics]) (It's a shame that intelligence often just means bonus to spell saving throw DC:s) - power through clever use of different abilities and available resources - cunning physically (especially the übermench part) quite dull ability... stuff Maybe in dnd terms: +4 Int, +2 Str, +2 Con +5 on diplomacy and gather information Illogically logical planning: The more obscure and more way-over-head the battle plan is, the more presicely it should work as planned (still the rolls determine the outcome ofcourse). This is a very much DM judgement ability, which makes it difficult to adjust into LA. Bonus feats: Alertness, Able Learner, Improved Initiative, Combat Expertise LA +2
Willie the Duck 04-28-07, 01:54 AM	These are traits that I think would fit this ho.mo superior or "human posterior". - cunning intellectually (must think one step ahead all others in both social and logical situations [math physics]) (It's a shame that intelligence often just means bonus to spell saving throw DC:s) - power through clever use of different abilities and available resources - cunning physically (especially the übermench part) quite dull ability... stuff I think you may have tapped into something. H. superior should have bonus to intelligence without the spell DC booster, and various "traits" that boost natural cunning and skill use. What does this sound like? What humans have always had: extra skill points and extra feats. Give them skill points per level and maybe a bonus feat or two from the fighter (caginess), skill boosting, and survival (endrurance, et al) categories, and maybe a +2 con or immunity to disease/resistance to poison to round out the +1la. Any more than that would subtract from the all-around-more-powerful character type, although higher LAs disfavor spellcasters and I picture this guy not being one. Perhaps a rogue/martial class or LE bard. Remember, these figures are to be leaders among men. Leaders are rarely the same as what PCs would want as heroes.
Sphere 04-28-07, 02:17 AM	No, just becouse it is a "better human", it's not the better human, I am looking for. In no case, the Übermensch should require to feast upon the flesh of other humans, that's the exact opposite of what I'm looking for. Spell-like abilities are ... not what I have in mind, too. It's too far away from a human. Human Paragon is more what I'm looking for, but it's still much to minimal, I'm searching for something with a lot more impact. Partial spellcasting is a good idea, in order to make them possibly work with every class. In any way, the Human paragon meats none of the themes given above (survivability, will to power, personal perfection, etc.) Oh, you want a paragon human rather than a human paragon then. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/paragonCreature.htm It's an epic level template but it describes what you want.
ArochanoX 04-28-07, 02:42 AM	Sphere, I think that Maraxus knows wotc-published material and it's possibilities very well. Paragon template with it's whopping LA of about +16 is just too much to use in normal play. Some odd thoughts of self-perfection: usually evil allignment and some rituals that (after killing something) will make the ho.mo superior better for a while. Something like ritual that takes 1 full-round action and then gives nice insight bonuses on attack and damage rolls, caster level and all ability checks (including skills) the effect lasts for the rest of the ecounter. It would fit nicely if the übermench thought that all other creatures were lower grade than them. Willie the Duck, I like your ideas. Let's see what Maraxus thinks of them.
Jaxgaret 04-28-07, 02:53 AM	Human Paragon is more what I'm looking for, but it's still much to minimal, I'm searching for something with a lot more impact. Partial spellcasting is a good idea, in order to make them possibly work with every class. In any way, the Human paragon meats none of the themes given above (survivability, will to power, personal perfection, etc.) "Will to power" and "personal perfection" are IMO roleplay choices rather than racial features. Survivability is easily summed up by +2 Con. I'd say that the Human Paragon is very close to what you are looking for. If you want to convert it to an LA race instead of using RHD, make it a race with the normal Human bonuses (bonus feat, +1 sp/level, FC: Any) plus all of the Human Paragon bonuses (2nd bonus feat, +2 to one stat, Adaptive Learning, 2 spellcasting levels). LA +2 sounds about right to me. Note that this race would make good-to-excellent spellcasters, and bunk everything else.
Sphere 04-28-07, 03:48 AM	Sphere, I think that Maraxus knows wotc-published material and it's possibilities very well. Paragon template with it's whopping LA of about +16 is just too much to use in normal play. I am often reminded of things I have forgotten while reading the boards, and quite a bit of the time I learn new things too. The LA+15 is quite a bit, but I believe the template has the idea of what he is looking for. Cut down the incite, competence, and luck bonuses to +1. Lower ability score adjustments to +2. Make the speed bonus +10'. Remove the SPs completely. Adjust the damage reduction down to 1/magic and the fire/cold resistance to 5. Fast healing should be around 1 at best. Change the spell resistance to its HD +5 or remove it. And finally recalculate the LA. That would make quite the Übermensch, while still being playable in a less than epic game.
Captain_Kobold 04-28-07, 07:36 AM	Instead of set stat bonuses, how about bonuses orf +4, +2, +2, applied to the three lowest stats (with the +4 going to the lowest)? This represents that whilst the superior race might peak at the same level as an exceptional human, they have bred out much of the weaknesses. An intelligent human might be as bright as a superior, but you just don't get stupid, or weak, or clumsy etc superiors. The unbalanced nature of the stats should impact the LA less than straight bonuses, since there is less scope for optimisation: You aren't boosting a stat to ridiculous levels, you are just improving some of the less-used stats. A couple of racial hit dice might also be in order to enforce the "Typical speciman of superior is . . . well, superior, to a typical human" idea. They might not recieve the standard human racial bonuses: Its possible that in their quest to perfection, they have lost some of the original human traits of open-mindedness and flexibility.
AMGriffin 04-28-07, 11:10 AM	After reading a little bit about what you want, I whipped up a quick writeup. They have the same abilities as humans plus the following listed: • +4 Consitution, +2 Wisdom, +2 Intelligence. H. Superior stand out amongst other humans for their remarkable resilence and sharp minds. • Bonus feat: Iron Will, Diehard (Regardless if they meet prerequisites or not) • Will to Power (Ex): H. Superior have the innate ability to overcome nearly anything they encounter through sheer force of will. 3 Times per day, a H. Superior may tap into their will to power. Whilst in their will to power state H. Superior gain a +2 bonus to any two ability scores they desire, as well as immunity to fear or fear-like effects, compulsion, and any sort of mind-altering effects, as well as a +6 bonus on saves against death. They may sustain this for as 3 rounds before being forced to make a will save, which is equal to 15+the total number of rounds they have been in the will to power state. If margin of their failed save exceeds 5, they suffer 1D4 temporary wisdom damage. If the margin of their failed save exceeds 10 they suffer 2D6 Permanent Wisdom damage and 1D6 permanent charisma damage (A little reference to Nietschze's mental breakdown ;)) • LA+2
Necromas 04-28-07, 12:11 PM	I'm thinking LA +1... +2 to all stats, naturally psionic, alertness, +1 to any 4 skills.
Luis_Dragunov 04-28-07, 03:14 PM	Humans are known not for their hardness, strength or anything in particular other than their adaptiveness and aptitude towards learning. So all you really have to do is take the base human race and extrapolate. Superior Sapiens Medium Size +6 Int 2 Extra Feats at 1st Level +8 Skill Points at 1st Level and 2 extra skill points on every level thereafter Spontaneous Aptitude (Sp/Ps): After spending ages adapting to a wild world filled with powers intially beyond their beckon, the advancement of the human race confers upon the Superior Sapiens an innate ability to cast or manifest one 1st-level spell or one 1st-level power of the player's choice, usable once per day as a spell/psionic-like ability. Automatic Languages: As humans. Favored Class: As humans. LA: +2
CryoSilver 04-28-07, 03:15 PM	Without an LA of at least +3, +6 Int is going to result in some very broken wizard humans.
Necromas 04-28-07, 03:19 PM	Without an LA of at least +3, +6 Int is going to result in some very broken wizard humans. If a wizard is going to give up an entire level of spells vs. a same level human wizard, (well, until he reaches level 20) then he deserves a couple extra bonus spells and a save DC boost.
JulesCARV 04-28-07, 03:28 PM	No, just becouse it is a "better human", it's not the better human, I am looking for. Could you clarify what this phrase means?
CryoSilver 04-28-07, 03:34 PM	If a wizard is going to give up an entire level of spells vs. a same level human wizard, (well, until he reaches level 20) then he deserves a couple extra bonus spells and a save DC boost. Which is why I said there should be an LA. I'm not sure what you're attempting to dispute.
Necromas 04-28-07, 03:37 PM	Which is why I said there should be an LA. I'm not sure what you're attempting to dispute. I'm disputing that LA 2 is bad enough for a wizard already, in response to your post saying that it should be at least 3.
AMGriffin 04-28-07, 03:40 PM	Could you clarify what this phrase means? It means he doesn't just want a Human that gets an insane amount of feats and skillpoints.
Luis_Dragunov 04-28-07, 07:26 PM	Without an LA of at least +3, +6 Int is going to result in some very broken wizard humans. A mere +3 to the intelligence score modifier is hardly worth a 6000 xp setback. It means he doesn't just want a Human that gets an insane amount of feats and skillpoints. And if you make a race that has nothing to do with humans then it's not a superior branch of the human race, it's a whole race entirely and if that's what the poster wants, why not just make it and give them human appearance? Give them darkvision and wings and golden eyes and slam attacks and make them have Powerful Build, why not, and call them humans, if that's what being a Ho.mo Superior is understood to be.
Maraxus 04-28-07, 07:40 PM	Thanks for all the input, my first draw comes down here. I really have to thing about that "Psychic Power" idea - psi-like abilities, I had said "Hell no" - but thinking about it again, it sounds quite interesting. About the "No, just becouse it is a "better human", it's not the better human, I am looking for." quote: As I said, I was thinking of a special flavor, the linked "better human" did not have. Abilities: +2 Str/Dex/Con/Wis/Cha. +4 Int. No ability score may be lower then 10 before this adjustments. Base speed 40 Feats: 1 feat at first level, one additional from the following list at 1, 6, 11, 16: Alertness, Able Learner, Athletic, Improved Initiative, Combat Expertise, Combat Reflexes, Diehard, Endurance, Great Fortitude, Iron Will, Leadership, Lighting Reflexes, Magical Aptitude, Negotiator, Persuasive, Run, Self-Sufficient, Toughness Skills: +5 on diplomacy, gather information and survival. +1 skill point each level (added to whatever class level he takes). And 1 skill point each level, that can be added to every skill 1:1. For the purpose of maximum skill ranks, any skill is class skill for the H. Superior. Saves: +3 racial on all saves and an additional +3 against natural diseases and poisons. Special: Faster healing (Ex): The Human Superior heals 1 HP per 2 class levels every hour in which he engange no exceptionally strenuous activity. What does not kill you (Ex): When the character is brought into negative HP violently (therefor by an attacker or by uncontrolled enviromental threats), the number of hit point, he can go into negative Hitpoints without dieing increases by one, to a Maximum of one additional point for every level. Damage reduction 1/- Mass Attraction: +2 leadership score (followers only). Will to Power (Ex): Human Superior have the innate ability to overcome nearly anything they encounter through sheer force of will. 3 times per day, a H. Superior may tap into their will to power. Whilst in their will to power state H. Superior gain a +2 bonus to any two ability scores they desire, as well as immunity to fear or fear-like effects and a +5 bonus on saves vs. compulsion, any sort of mind-altering effects and death effects. They may sustain this for as 3 rounds before being forced to make a will save each turn, which is equal to 15+the total number of rounds they have been in the will to power state. If margin of their failed save exceeds 5, they suffer 1D4 temporary wisdom damage. If the margin of their failed save exceeds 10 they suffer 2D6 Permanent Wisdom damage and 1D6 permanent charisma damage. Psi-like abilities: (Int-based, ML = 1/2 char level, min 1) At 1st level, the character can cast Telempathic Projection 3/day At 1st level, he can use Far hand 3/day At 4th level, he can use Read Thoughts 1/day At 8th level, he can use Psionic Suggestion 1/day At 12th level, he can use Telekinetic Force 1/day At 18th level, he can use Hypercognition 1/week PS: Level Adjustment ... somewher at the low end of +4 maybe? Or more like +3? Or something totally else?
CryoSilver 04-29-07, 02:57 AM	A mere +3 to the intelligence score modifier is hardly worth a 6000 xp setback. +8, if you assume he uses one of his 2 bonus feats for Spellcasting Prodigy.
Necromas 04-29-07, 07:21 AM	A mere +3 to the intelligence score modifier is hardly worth a 6000 xp setback. Actually, they'll be 320,000exp behind by level 20. Even if your DM is crazy enough to use LA buyoff rules, it's still 13,000exp.
Luis_Dragunov 04-29-07, 09:36 AM	+8, if you assume he uses one of his 2 bonus feats for Spellcasting Prodigy. Well yeah, but we don't calculate LA based on what a player might do with his character, but on what direct advantages the template/race offers. And Maraxus, that template surely fits with the human theme of exploration, ambitiousness and adaptation. Very good!
ArochanoX 05-04-07, 03:30 PM	Maraxus, I like your base build. Those psi-like powers might be arguable, but I like your way of taking only telepathic and telekinetic abilities (suits h. superiors from Babylon 5 :D). I still would favor something like telepathy (about) 20ft, some powers like mind-link, suggestion, detect thoughts which you've picked too.