Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Pegasos989 08-20-07, 01:36 PM	Heya, I am DMing a campaing in a setting where hobgoblins are a notable race and as such, I would like them to be a balanced PC race too. I am not quite sure if they are worth the +1 LA. Comparement: Dwarf -Bonus to con and penalty to a stat fighter types won't use anyways -Save bonuses -Bonuses against certain races -Stonecunning -Profiencies with good weapons -Low speed but no reduction from armor -Darkvision -Skill bonuses Hobgoblin -Bonuses to con and dex -Darkvision -Skill bonuses Seeing this comparison, I don't think that hobgoblin should really be a level worth behind a dwarven fighter. So, do people generally agree or disagree? What to do about it? Remove LA? Add something to make them worth the LA? Do nothing? I am sure there must have been talk about this subject before but didn't find a thread about it in the few last pages...
Neutronium_Dragon 08-20-07, 02:24 PM	The simplest approach: Remove the +2 Dex and consider them LA +0.
Pegasos989 08-20-07, 03:20 PM	The simplest approach: Remove the +2 Dex and consider them LA +0. Umm, so the comparement would go Dwarves +2 con, -2 cha (stat they need the least) +profiencies +bonuses against giants +bonuses against orcs and goblinoids +bonuses against spells and spell likes +stonecunning Hobgoblins +2 con And these would be balanced?
RobbyPants 08-20-07, 03:50 PM	The simplest approach: Remove the +2 Dex and consider them LA +0. Actually, I'd say the simplest approach is to simply reduce the LA to +0 and leave them as-is. That's what I do in my games. The +2 to two stats is certainly appealing, but other than that, they get darkvision and +4 on Move Silently. You're right that compared to the dwarf, they don't seem that much better. I think the LA +1 was simply a knee-jerk reaction to seeing +2 in two stats. At best, I'd rate them LA + 0.25 (which in WotC's mind rounds up to LA +1). If you've ever read Yabethewhat's Feature Points (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=667683) (certainly not official, but pretty popular), he puts hobgoblins as LA +0.
Neutronium_Dragon 08-20-07, 04:01 PM	> Hobgoblins > +2 con > And these would be balanced? Hobgoblins also have Darkvision, +4 to Move Silently, and a base speed of 30' (compared to the dwarf's 20'). The fact that Con is universally useful to everyone and does not have a corresponding penalty of any sort makes it a fair tradeoff.
tombowings 08-20-07, 06:47 PM	I would say have a -2 Cha and a +2 bonus to Intimidate checks.
Hebitsuikaza 08-20-07, 06:50 PM	Hobgoblins are not worth the LA. Not even remotely so. This has been a major thorn in the side of anyone who has considered playing them for the entirity of 3rd/3.5 edition. There are many, many options to fix the Hobgoblin race. Removing the dex hardly seems valid to me since for hobGOBLINS the dexterity is far more themely than the consitution. Perhaps offer the player the ability to choose either the Dex or the Con bonus or give them a -2 Wisdom (they are supposed to be Charismatic and Intelligent, but wise? Not necessarily.) Hopefully when 4E comes around, WotC will finally do something nice and interesting with them and fix this problem once and for all. I have serious reservations that they'll really do a damn thing for any race whose name does not contain the word "elf", but... we can always hope.
StevenO 08-20-07, 08:11 PM	I don't think the Hobgoblin is a +1 LA race but do think it is a little more that +0. My solution is to use point buy stats for character creation with the hobgoblin character getting four points fewer to spend. By placing a 13 or higher into Dex and/or Con it is pretty easy to make those lost points up and still end up with slightly better stats.
deathbane 08-20-07, 09:35 PM	Heya, I am DMing a campaing in a setting where hobgoblins are a notable race and as such, I would like them to be a balanced PC race too. I am not quite sure if they are worth the +1 LA. Comparement: Dwarf -Bonus to con and penalty to a stat fighter types won't use anyways -Save bonuses -Bonuses against certain races -Stonecunning -Profiencies with good weapons -Low speed but no reduction from armor -Darkvision -Skill bonuses Hobgoblin -Bonuses to con and dex -Darkvision -Skill bonuses Seeing this comparison, I don't think that hobgoblin should really be a level worth behind a dwarven fighter. So, do people generally agree or disagree? What to do about it? Remove LA? Add something to make them worth the LA? Do nothing? I am sure there must have been talk about this subject before but didn't find a thread about it in the few last pages... I would just remove the LA. They are actually above a LA=0, but not weak enough for the LA=1. What you could do is use the LA adjustment in the UA if you have if so the that the LA goes away at 3rd(?) level.
TheCarrionCrawler 08-21-07, 08:01 AM	Hobgoblins are not worth the LA. Not even remotely so. This has been a major thorn in the side of anyone who has considered playing them for the entirity of 3rd/3.5 edition. I agree.....And don't get me started on the Blue!!! An LA on the Blue is complete nonsense!
Aricandor 08-21-07, 08:27 AM	Just plain removing the LA works fine. After 3rd level (when you could theoretically have bought it off anyway), you won't notice that he has cooler stat bonus than any other characters. I did so in my game and the hobgoblin warblade in the group is not, nor was he ever at levels 1 through 8 (current) unbalanced in any way. Despite his very high base stat rolls.