How do warforged work? [Archive] - Wizards Community

How do warforged work? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
M1kh43l_P4r4d1s0
12-14-07, 03:35 AM We all know that warforged are effectivly "machines." And machines are made to a certain specification. You don't want one sword to be made awesomely and the next to break on the first swing, right? So how come warforged aren't all made with "max" starting stats at creation? Why would the creators make a really storn warforged one time, and an incredibly crappy one the next?
zeratulcraft
12-14-07, 03:45 AM Maybe eberron's a point buy world and the magic only lets them assign certain strengths at a time.
Neutronium_Dragon
12-14-07, 04:02 AM Because they're not machines. There's nothing mechanical about them. They're essentially a golem made of livewood.

As for why they're individual - because the creation process is not an exact one, as the Eberron books which cover it make very clear. In fact, the Cannith artificers who are responsible for them only partially understand how it works or why some of them come out with highly nonstandard features.

On top of that, warforged are at least partly capable of altering their own natures - that's how you end up with types like the Reforged and the Warforged Juggernaut. They just change over time to reflect those parts of their nature that they want to emphasize.
mathew99
12-14-07, 06:12 AM pinnocio is a warforged, cept more alive (what other term would you use) and less tree.
Fireclave
12-14-07, 06:33 AM Because they're not machines. There's nothing mechanical about them. They're essentially a golem made of livewood.

As for why they're individual - because the creation process is not an exact one, as the Eberron books which cover it make very clear. In fact, the Cannith artificers who are responsible for them only partially understand how it works or why some of them come out with highly nonstandard features.

On top of that, warforged are at least partly capable of altering their own natures - that's how you end up with types like the Reforged and the Warforged Juggernaut. They just change over time to reflect those parts of their nature that they want to emphasize.
Neutronium_Dragon basically covered the most important points. Warforged are more creature than construct, and how the actual process of creating warforged works is not even completely understood by their creators. And depending on which in-game sources you might want to believe, the orginal technology may not even have been created by House Cannith, which as another layer of uncertainess as to how the process works (but don't tell anyone I told you that ;))

Now golems, otoh, are effectively machines: Souless automatrons created under strict specifications with no individuality or potential for personality or thought.
Grizzled Gryphon
12-14-07, 07:36 AM In MMII, there is a construct called the Nimblewright that has intelligence and personality. Maybe this was a "test" creature for the creators of Ebberon concerning the warforged?

Either way, the Nimblewright is a Construct, while the Warforged are Living Constructs. I don't have much knowledge of the Eberron world, but I do know that forges have been found on the continent that the Giants had there civilization on. (Xendrik, I think?) Considering that the forges are ancient, this must be a recovered technology that is not fully understood. I would imagine the origonal makers of the warforged probably made several different types that all had the same set of features and stats. For the House Cannith makers, they don't have the knowledge to do this, so the Warforged come out random.

As for how warforged work, that would be tirelessly.:P
Mr_Teapot
12-14-07, 10:06 AM You have to remember that Eberron doesn't have mass production and interchangeable parts. So even for machines some would be better and some would be worse. Of course, machines aren't where the focus of D&D is, so the rules just collapse that point into masterwork or non-masterwork items. But in medieval and Renaissance Europe you had a lot of variety in quality of, say, swords depending on the manufacturer and the same would likely be true for a more complicated more magical and more alive construct like a Warforged.

And you could say in your game that all Warforged of the same manufacturer built to do the same purpose have the same stats as a given PC or NPC Warforged. Jim brings in his Warforged Scout "Watcher" who was built as a reconaissance unit. All other recon units made by the same people have the same starting stats as Jim's PC, though they might advance in different levels, learn different skills, etc. And other Warforged built by other manufacturers for other purposes still roll their stats differently. (Yes, this solution is contradictory from my first point. I favor the first reason.)

But giving max stats is just plain silly. Giving perfectly average stats to each Warforged would be less silly but still unnecessary.
InkBlot
12-14-07, 10:38 AM I don't have much knowledge of the Eberron world, but I do know that forges have been found on the continent that the Giants had there civilization on. (Xendrik, I think?) Considering that the forges are ancient, this must be a recovered technology that is not fully understood.
That's not necessarily true.

For example; I don't have much knowledge of clockworks, but I do know that clockwork devices have been found on the island that the Athenians had their civilization on (Greece). Considering that these clocks are ancient, this must be a recovered technology that is not fully understood.

It's incredibly common for two different people (or groups) to discover the same technology completely independent of each other. It even happens simultaneously on opposite sides of the world. In the thousands of years since the giants of Xendrick invented warforged, it was inevitable that someone else would independently develop their own warforged.

Cannith's warforged could have been copied from schemas found in darkest Xendrick, but (like many things in Eberron) whether or not they actually did is a mystery. It's a mystery that every set of adventurers can find their own answer to.
1 ton ghost
12-14-07, 11:37 AM not sure about the clockwork tech in ancient Greece, even in the late Hellenistic period (it's height) for what it's worth.

i think the answer to your question is in the root of the nomenclature itself; (Living Construct). that is, it's life essence voids it from the systematic B/W aspects of machinery in some of the more finer senses. more specifically, it is a living creature (more or less) and not subject to a blueprint beyond it's physical construction, and even then, life is full of wondrous variety and all that jazz. basically, they're not like Terminators in that they are all alike in terms of stats, however they are like terminators in that the alleged AI of the killer robots gives them a degree of free will and leaves mental stats open-ended.
we are products of our environment so to speak, but rationally speaking, physical stats should be stamped out in their initial inception right away given they are "made" that way. ie)they don't grow into their chasis, get older, more mature...physically.

stipulating that all machines are made to specifis specs doesn't hold up (this isn't a post-industrialized setting). there's going to be artistic license in every forge, every creator or architect, etc. helps to flesh out the "warforged are all unique beautiful snowflakes" arguement, despite physical bearing. model 'A' might look exactly like model 'B', but given self-awareness/free will and a healthy dose of tabula rasa, it's apples and oranges.
more Transformers than Terminators i guess w/ their lifespark (or whatever you wish to call it) being the great independent variable that makes them all wholly unique.
Keenath
12-14-07, 11:49 AM The key is that building a warforged isn't just a matter of putting the bits together and turning them on with magic.

The Creation Forges are key to their creation, and even House Cannith doesn't entirely understand how those work. They either built the forges or copied them from artifacts in Xendrik, and either way they can't explain why it does what it does. You can take all the same parts and put them in the Forge, and when they come out, one time you'll have a big, beefy male-personality warforged fighter, while the next you'll have a slender, feminine warforged who excels at stealth and scouting.

Among other things, the Forges give the Warforged souls, which NOBODY has been able to figure out -- the 'forged unarguably do have souls, but how that is happening inside those Creation Forge artifacts is inexplicable, and the soul clearly has some impact on the nature of the warforged that comes out.

So, in the end, warforged always have strengths and weaknesses for the same reason that people have strengths and weaknesses -- it's just how nature works.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
M1kh43l_P4r4d1s0 12-14-07, 03:35 AM	We all know that warforged are effectivly "machines." And machines are made to a certain specification. You don't want one sword to be made awesomely and the next to break on the first swing, right? So how come warforged aren't all made with "max" starting stats at creation? Why would the creators make a really storn warforged one time, and an incredibly crappy one the next?
zeratulcraft 12-14-07, 03:45 AM	Maybe eberron's a point buy world and the magic only lets them assign certain strengths at a time.
Neutronium_Dragon 12-14-07, 04:02 AM	Because they're not machines. There's nothing mechanical about them. They're essentially a golem made of livewood. As for why they're individual - because the creation process is not an exact one, as the Eberron books which cover it make very clear. In fact, the Cannith artificers who are responsible for them only partially understand how it works or why some of them come out with highly nonstandard features. On top of that, warforged are at least partly capable of altering their own natures - that's how you end up with types like the Reforged and the Warforged Juggernaut. They just change over time to reflect those parts of their nature that they want to emphasize.
mathew99 12-14-07, 06:12 AM	pinnocio is a warforged, cept more alive (what other term would you use) and less tree.
Fireclave 12-14-07, 06:33 AM	Because they're not machines. There's nothing mechanical about them. They're essentially a golem made of livewood. As for why they're individual - because the creation process is not an exact one, as the Eberron books which cover it make very clear. In fact, the Cannith artificers who are responsible for them only partially understand how it works or why some of them come out with highly nonstandard features. On top of that, warforged are at least partly capable of altering their own natures - that's how you end up with types like the Reforged and the Warforged Juggernaut. They just change over time to reflect those parts of their nature that they want to emphasize. Neutronium_Dragon basically covered the most important points. Warforged are more creature than construct, and how the actual process of creating warforged works is not even completely understood by their creators. And depending on which in-game sources you might want to believe, the orginal technology may not even have been created by House Cannith, which as another layer of uncertainess as to how the process works (but don't tell anyone I told you that ;)) Now golems, otoh, are effectively machines: Souless automatrons created under strict specifications with no individuality or potential for personality or thought.
Grizzled Gryphon 12-14-07, 07:36 AM	In MMII, there is a construct called the Nimblewright that has intelligence and personality. Maybe this was a "test" creature for the creators of Ebberon concerning the warforged? Either way, the Nimblewright is a Construct, while the Warforged are Living Constructs. I don't have much knowledge of the Eberron world, but I do know that forges have been found on the continent that the Giants had there civilization on. (Xendrik, I think?) Considering that the forges are ancient, this must be a recovered technology that is not fully understood. I would imagine the origonal makers of the warforged probably made several different types that all had the same set of features and stats. For the House Cannith makers, they don't have the knowledge to do this, so the Warforged come out random. As for how warforged work, that would be tirelessly.:P
Mr_Teapot 12-14-07, 10:06 AM	You have to remember that Eberron doesn't have mass production and interchangeable parts. So even for machines some would be better and some would be worse. Of course, machines aren't where the focus of D&D is, so the rules just collapse that point into masterwork or non-masterwork items. But in medieval and Renaissance Europe you had a lot of variety in quality of, say, swords depending on the manufacturer and the same would likely be true for a more complicated more magical and more alive construct like a Warforged. And you could say in your game that all Warforged of the same manufacturer built to do the same purpose have the same stats as a given PC or NPC Warforged. Jim brings in his Warforged Scout "Watcher" who was built as a reconaissance unit. All other recon units made by the same people have the same starting stats as Jim's PC, though they might advance in different levels, learn different skills, etc. And other Warforged built by other manufacturers for other purposes still roll their stats differently. (Yes, this solution is contradictory from my first point. I favor the first reason.) But giving max stats is just plain silly. Giving perfectly average stats to each Warforged would be less silly but still unnecessary.
InkBlot 12-14-07, 10:38 AM	I don't have much knowledge of the Eberron world, but I do know that forges have been found on the continent that the Giants had there civilization on. (Xendrik, I think?) Considering that the forges are ancient, this must be a recovered technology that is not fully understood. That's not necessarily true. For example; I don't have much knowledge of clockworks, but I do know that clockwork devices have been found on the island that the Athenians had their civilization on (Greece). Considering that these clocks are ancient, this must be a recovered technology that is not fully understood. It's incredibly common for two different people (or groups) to discover the same technology completely independent of each other. It even happens simultaneously on opposite sides of the world. In the thousands of years since the giants of Xendrick invented warforged, it was inevitable that someone else would independently develop their own warforged. Cannith's warforged could have been copied from schemas found in darkest Xendrick, but (like many things in Eberron) whether or not they actually did is a mystery. It's a mystery that every set of adventurers can find their own answer to.
1 ton ghost 12-14-07, 11:37 AM	not sure about the clockwork tech in ancient Greece, even in the late Hellenistic period (it's height) for what it's worth. i think the answer to your question is in the root of the nomenclature itself; (Living Construct). that is, it's life essence voids it from the systematic B/W aspects of machinery in some of the more finer senses. more specifically, it is a living creature (more or less) and not subject to a blueprint beyond it's physical construction, and even then, life is full of wondrous variety and all that jazz. basically, they're not like Terminators in that they are all alike in terms of stats, however they are like terminators in that the alleged AI of the killer robots gives them a degree of free will and leaves mental stats open-ended. we are products of our environment so to speak, but rationally speaking, physical stats should be stamped out in their initial inception right away given they are "made" that way. ie)they don't grow into their chasis, get older, more mature...physically. stipulating that all machines are made to specifis specs doesn't hold up (this isn't a post-industrialized setting). there's going to be artistic license in every forge, every creator or architect, etc. helps to flesh out the "warforged are all unique beautiful snowflakes" arguement, despite physical bearing. model 'A' might look exactly like model 'B', but given self-awareness/free will and a healthy dose of tabula rasa, it's apples and oranges. more Transformers than Terminators i guess w/ their lifespark (or whatever you wish to call it) being the great independent variable that makes them all wholly unique.
Keenath 12-14-07, 11:49 AM	The key is that building a warforged isn't just a matter of putting the bits together and turning them on with magic. The Creation Forges are key to their creation, and even House Cannith doesn't entirely understand how those work. They either built the forges or copied them from artifacts in Xendrik, and either way they can't explain why it does what it does. You can take all the same parts and put them in the Forge, and when they come out, one time you'll have a big, beefy male-personality warforged fighter, while the next you'll have a slender, feminine warforged who excels at stealth and scouting. Among other things, the Forges give the Warforged souls, which NOBODY has been able to figure out -- the 'forged unarguably do have souls, but how that is happening inside those Creation Forge artifacts is inexplicable, and the soul clearly has some impact on the nature of the warforged that comes out. So, in the end, warforged always have strengths and weaknesses for the same reason that people have strengths and weaknesses -- it's just how nature works.