Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Darryl_Licke 07-12-07, 06:55 PM	I say 4. I'm an elf. I'm not the elf wizard though. The elf wizard says the DM says he needs a full 8. Huh?
Holy_Beholder 07-12-07, 07:00 PM	Its 8 for spells. However 4 of them can be spent loafing around conscious instead of sleeping, you just can't actually do anything.
Darryl_Licke 07-12-07, 07:13 PM	Its 8 for spells. However 4 of them can be spent loafing around conscious instead of sleeping, you just can't actually do anything. Would keeping watch count as loafing around doing nothing?
zorgling25 07-12-07, 07:15 PM	Would keeping watch count as loafing around doing nothing? Thats up to your DM. I would rule yes, so long as nothing significant like combat occurred.
Aleolus 07-12-07, 07:23 PM	They don't have to sleep, however all spellcasters require 8 hours of rest to regain their spells. Elves can simply meditate for this amount of time and still get them, as if I remember rightly, Elves don't actually need to sleep.
locustechpriest 07-12-07, 07:34 PM	Check the PHB under elves, the 4 hours of rest that an elf gets is equivalent to 8 hours sleep for a human, IIRC. They do not need an additional 4 hours of rest.
Ace_of_time 07-12-07, 07:37 PM	It's on page 178 PHB under rest.
Millennium 07-12-07, 07:38 PM	Would keeping watch count as loafing around doing nothing? As long as you don't actually encounter anything, then probably. But that's a pretty big risk: it puts you at the mercy of the DM to not throw anything at you.
Ace_of_time 07-12-07, 07:43 PM	We rest for 12 hours and 4 hour watches. So our wizard takes 1st watch or 3rd watch. And he is an elf.
zorgling25 07-12-07, 08:01 PM	As long as you don't actually encounter anything, then probably. But that's a pretty big risk: it puts you at the mercy of the DM to not throw anything at you. Getting interrupted doesn't mean you just lose the spells for the day. You can rest longer to make up for interrupted time in between.
DarkNick 07-12-07, 08:08 PM	I only have the 3,0 rule book with me at work - but it says that a wizard needs a good nights sleep before they can prepare spells (backed up by the SRD). I assume a good nights sleep for an elf is 4 hours...
zorgling25 07-12-07, 08:14 PM	I only have the 3,0 rule book with me at work - but it says that a wizard needs a good nights sleep before they can prepare spells (backed up by the SRD). I assume a good nights sleep for an elf is 4 hours... No, elves need 4 hours normal rest, + 4hours doing nothing
Kopana 07-12-07, 09:41 PM	Don't forget they have to use like at least 15mins and upto an hour preparing their spells after those eight hours.
calronmoonflower 07-13-07, 01:55 AM	Elves don't sleep... But instead of being difficult they still need 8 hours. They just need to rest their mind for another 4 hours before or after they trance.
Evilclone 07-13-07, 05:03 AM	Every wizard needs 8 hours of resting before regaining her spells. If you need to sleep or not it's another matter, but you must do nothing during this time. The people that think elfs need only four hours, just have to think to races who don't sleep at all like warforged. With your logic they regain spells in a blink of time since they don't have to sleep. Infinite spells, yeaaah!!
Alac Luin 07-14-07, 07:28 PM	From the SRD, magic overview, arcane spells, rest: Rest: To prepare her daily spells, a wizard must first sleep for 8 hours. <snip> If the character does not need to sleep for some reason, she still must have 8 hours of restful calm before preparing any spells.
Ace_of_time 07-14-07, 08:22 PM	I only have the 3,0 rule book with me at work - but it says that a wizard needs a good nights sleep before they can prepare spells (backed up by the SRD). I assume a good nights sleep for an elf is 4 hours... I think they changed it to rest in 3.5.
Alac Luin 07-14-07, 08:32 PM	I think they changed it to rest in 3.5. Nope, the same line is in the 3.0 SRD. I think the issue is it is not in what may be thought of as the logical place. But it is there. EDIT: To be specific, 3.0 PHB(not the SRD this time) , page 154, second column under "REST" you will see this specific line... "For example, elvin wizards need 8 hours of rest to clear their minds even though they need only 4 hours of trance to refresh their bodies (so they could trance for 4 hours and rest for 4 hours and then prepare spells)."
Ace_of_time 07-14-07, 09:43 PM	Nope, the same line is in the 3.0 SRD. I think the issue is it is not in what may be thought of as the logical place. But it is there. EDIT: To be specific, 3.0 PHB(not the SRD this time) , page 154, second column under "REST" you will see this specific line... "For example, elvin wizards need 8 hours of rest to clear their minds even though they need only 4 hours of trance to refresh their bodies (so they could trance for 4 hours and rest for 4 hours and then prepare spells)." I know I posted that on my first post. in 3.5 it's on page 178.
Alac Luin 07-14-07, 09:45 PM	I know I posted that on my first post. in 3.5 it's on page 178. I was only pointing out that it did not change between 3.0 and 3.5.
Matthew77 07-14-07, 09:49 PM	Would keeping watch count as loafing around doing nothing? Personally, I wouldn't consider keeping my senses alert and wary "restful". Usually being on watch involves moving around, patrolling the campsite, feeding the fire if you have one. I would apply some pretty hefty penalties to spot and listen (say... -20 or so) to someone that described their time on watch as "resting".
calronmoonflower 07-15-07, 01:37 AM	Personally, I wouldn't consider keeping my senses alert and wary "restful". In a small camp keeping watch could be as simple as being awake. Usually being on watch involves moving around, patrolling the campsite, feeding the fire if you have one. None of that is needed. You need only to be able to make spot and listen checks for a watch. That's it. I would apply some pretty hefty penalties to spot and listen (say... -20 or so) to someone that described their time on watch as "resting". The penalty to listen for being asleep is -10. Why would it be worse when you are awake? Also what part of taking it easy makes it difficult to see and therefor make spot checks? From the SRD Rest: To prepare her daily spells, a wizard must first sleep for 8 hours. The wizard does not have to slumber for every minute of the time, but she must refrain from movement, combat, spellcasting, skill use, conversation, or any other fairly demanding physical or mental task during the rest period. If her rest is interrupted, each interruption adds 1 hour to the total amount of time she has to rest in order to clear her mind, and she must have at least 1 hour of uninterrupted rest immediately prior to preparing her spells. If the character does not need to sleep for some reason, she still must have 8 hours of restful calm before preparing any spells. I believe a watch requires three spot checks :weep: but I cannot find the rules for such. You cannot rest on your watch if those checks are active.
locustechpriest 07-15-07, 03:56 AM	I stand happily corrected. I am running an elf wizard now, so I will keep that in mind...
Ace_of_time 07-15-07, 06:44 PM	I was only pointing out that it did not change between 3.0 and 3.5. I was only posting the page for 3.5 people. Sorry.
Salla 07-15-07, 06:49 PM	I believe a watch requires three spot checks :weep: but I cannot find the rules for such. You cannot rest on your watch if those checks are active. I would rule, personally, that skill use only counts if you're actively using the skill ... 'reactions' that the DM may ask you to make take no effort or time, so ...
calronmoonflower 07-15-07, 09:38 PM	I would rule, personally, that skill use only counts if you're actively using the skill ... 'reactions' that the DM may ask you to make take no effort or time, so ... It would come down to how the dungeon master handels those checks.
TheCarrionCrawler 07-16-07, 09:11 AM	It would come down to how the dungeon master handels those checks. I would say that how a DM Handels the checks depends largely on if anything approaching camp is Haydn and how he composes his campaign. Check Bach with your DM and see if he follows meter or decides that you can keep watch and rest.
Ogg 07-16-07, 09:59 AM	Yeah, in one high magic game I'm in just about everyone has a ring of sustenance or elf sleeping time. Heck, I can't remember the last time my dwarf ate, he always has beer for breakfast. Anyways, penalizing people who aren't sleeping more then people who are is inane. Yes, as a wizard (or most other spell lobbers) you need to rest 8 hours to get back spells regaurdless of how long you have to sleep. From the SRD: --- Rest To prepare her daily spells, a wizard must first sleep for 8 hours. The wizard does not have to slumber for every minute of the time, but she must refrain from movement, combat, spellcasting, skill use, conversation, or any other fairly demanding physical or mental task during the rest period. If her rest is interrupted, each interruption adds 1 hour to the total amount of time she has to rest in order to clear her mind, and she must have at least 1 hour of uninterrupted rest immediately prior to preparing her spells. If the character does not need to sleep for some reason, she still must have 8 hours of restful calm before preparing any spells. --- So, you have to refrain from skill use but obviously, you can't refrain from things like spot & listen checks unless you happen to be a blind & deaf wizard. Now the DM could rule you've got your nose in your spell book or eyes closed in meditative prayer the entire time but it kind of makes not having to sleep a non-advantage or pointless thing for any spell caster to take. Why bother making someone who can use spells but doesn't need 8 hours sleep? I'd say a -2 penalty for unfavorable skill use conditions should do if it's during the spell casters 8 hours on spot & listen check. In addition if the spell caster does anything beyond speaking a bit. The rules for interupted rest fall into affect. They have to make up an hour every time they do anything active. So they can risk keeping watch by themselves but what are they going to do if they think they see a moving shadow or hear a growl? Wake up everyone at the slightest noise? Doesn't make for a good night sleep for the rest of the crew. They tend just to make a good back up watch more then anything else.
Ace_of_time 07-16-07, 04:04 PM	Well for just the PHB it is just wizards, ( I don't play bards so don't know for sure about them). most other spellcasters don't have to sleep to get spell. Clerics get theirs when it is time for them to pray. Sorc just get their once a day.
Legdiwena 07-16-07, 06:59 PM	First check is beginning of watch, 2nd check for the encounter (if there is one), third check is for after encounter. Also, cannot regain spell slots used in last hours 8 before resting IIRC.
steventirey1985 07-16-07, 11:09 PM	Well for just the PHB it is just wizards, ( I don't play bards so don't know for sure about them). most other spellcasters don't have to sleep to get spell. Clerics get theirs when it is time for them to pray. Sorc just get their once a day. Not true. All arcane spellcasters (at least sorcs, wizards, and bards do. I'm not sure about the arcane spellcasting classes in the suppliments, as I don't have any) must rest for 8 hours to regain their spells.
Nathreet 07-16-07, 11:42 PM	Every time you get interrupted you need an extra hour to prepare spells. If you use a spell during that interruption (or really any time within 8 hours of prepping spells), you will have one less spell slot when you prep your spells.