How many intelligent species? [Archive] - Wizards Community

How many intelligent species? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
IrishRover
01-01-08, 01:39 PM I'm looking to build a campaign world, and trying to populate it semi-realisticly. (I know, realistic and D&D don't mesh all that well..but I'm trying to make it plausible, at least!)

So...how many intelligent species are plausible on a continent the size of North America?

Ground rules:
Magic is not an overt force. There's things like blessing of the fields, more efficient agriculture than in reality..but not grossly so.

I am not considering large magical beings such as dragons, beholders, etc. They are going to be there, but not as a factor in the ecology. (They don't need to have a large enough gene pool, etc, to sustain themselves...they are pure magic)

I'm not counting the underearth...that will be there, but an almost seperate ecoloy..or perhaps even several of them, at different layers.

My object is to have a decent variety of humaniod races for PC's and enemies, without getting as rediculous.
Xiuhcoatl
01-01-08, 04:12 PM Well, let's look at real life.

At the moment, there are four animals on Earth that arguably have an Int score of 3 or higher: Humans, the Great Apes (I'm counting them as one), Dolphins, and Elephants.

That's with no magical influence whatsoever.

So in a D&D game ... at the very least the core races could find niches. And North America is big ... scale is hard to really think about in D&D ... there is plenty of room for many different races.
Essex
01-01-08, 05:09 PM I think that the number of sapient species is best based upon environmental niches and background story.

Have one race originate in the frozen north (or south); but no more than one because resources are scarce in arctic environments. Maybe this is where some barbaric 'evil' species comes from. They're fine in their native habitat, but they breed out of control when they spread to gentler climates.

Have three to five races originate in the oceans. They're big enough and have enough biodiversity to support several sapient populations.

Have one race originate in the underdark. They'll have little competition from races that cannot see in the dark.

Have one race originate among the mountain peaks. Goliaths and raptorans make good mountain dwellers.

Have two or three species descended from the same extinct species. Maybe humans, gnomes, and halflings are all related species that branched off a few million years ago and are now no longer capable of interbreeding.

Have one or two species arrive from across the ocean. Different evolutionary paths on the other side of the world can have an effect on your setting.

Have one race descended from extraplanar interactions. Maybe elves are secretly descended from neanderthals and creatures of the fairy realms.

Give one species a miraculous origin that ties into some racial creator god that split them from their kin. The aventi became aquatic beings because of divine intervention. They were normal humans but are now residents of the ocean.
-rewind-
01-01-08, 05:33 PM *I'm* an anthropoligst!

Humans are unique amung the animals because we have been forced to adapt to the widest variety of climes. Notice how i've said adapt, and not endure. The reason however, thjat only one sentian species exists on this planet, is becaus ehomosapiens are very good at stealing niches from other beings. Hense why **** erectus and neanderthals are no longer existant. So when I don my race makign hat, i look consiter two things:

do i want my new races to be just that "races" of humanity?
do i want new species?

The race answer to north america is simple. Add one race of man for the mountains, one for the desert, one for all the caverns and tunnels and underground areas, one for the north, and then, one for the wild west, and one for the heavy forests of the north.

or, Dwarves for the mountains, orcs for the craigs, elves for the forest, and then desert, wild west (savannahs) and the far north to populate with what ever you want.

This emplies that a sentiant being has adapted to a harsh clime that were were most likely forced into because humans were developing everywhere else, and reproductive barriers were established to allow for mutation or deviation from human stock. hense why most of these areas are mostly remote, at least form easiliy survivable coastal regions.

here are some thigns to keep in mind:

islands humanoids will get small, out ragiously small,

mountainous humanoids will get stocky, and possibly develop wider noses and larger brows.

subterranian humanoids would most likley have a different skin texture and nose shape to deal with the added humidity, would also be small due to lack of food.
also, if they can farm very protein ritch algaes that grow udnerground, they coudl become very very huge.

forest humanoids, especailly in the large trees of canada and the west chost, might even return to the trees.

Savannah humanoids would resemble central africans, unless you decide to throw in exceptional factors.
:w: POSSIBLE RACSIM ALERT :w:
If central africans did evolve far enough away from the human genome, and were no longer humans genetically, one could say they might have gained a dexterity bonus( greater surface area = longer limbs), and a constitution penalty, (encrease limb length and redcued body fat reduces tolerance to poisons and makes it difficult to restruct blood flow after injury) while still gaining some fort of fortitude bonus vs. heat exhaustion.

I personally believe that all "races" of humanity, shoudl simply be consitered human. and reserve different stats for different species that cannot breed true with humans.

now that thats out of the way.

desert humanoids is the hardest, because no humanoid has evolved in a desert, we have always mirgated into them. and most of the time, it's only savanahs, and not deserts.

I usualy have my desert populations living underground. or around a large oasis, these beings are so far removed form human stock you can go nuts with them.

hope that helps, i think most of it was jjust a dumb ramble
M-bark
01-02-08, 03:33 PM Well, let's look at real life.

At the moment, there are four animals on Earth that arguably have an Int score of 3 or higher: Humans, the Great Apes (I'm counting them as one), Dolphins, and Elephants.

That's with no magical influence whatsoever.

So in a D&D game ... at the very least the core races could find niches. And North America is big ... scale is hard to really think about in D&D ... there is plenty of room for many different races.

I'd say that some species of dog would qualify for an intelligence of at least 3 as well if you're counting elephants and dolphins among the more intelligent creatures.

You could take the world we're living in as an example (well, during the time of around the year 1500), and then turn every distinct human race into a seperate race for your campaign. I mean, they are saying elves and dwarves are RACES, not SPECIES, and they have SUBRACES, and they can even produce offspring with humans (well, elves and orcs anyway), so you could view different human races as varying to some degree as well. Perhaps humans in your world aren't so darn versatile and great and good at learning and skillfull and all.
sigma999
01-02-08, 03:41 PM In before flaming and 10 page debate on race in D&D.

To answer your question: How many sentient races are there?

Too many. That's why Ogres, Trolls, and Dragons like to eat people, because it places them in a comfortable position on top of the food chain.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
IrishRover 01-01-08, 01:39 PM	I'm looking to build a campaign world, and trying to populate it semi-realisticly. (I know, realistic and D&D don't mesh all that well..but I'm trying to make it plausible, at least!) So...how many intelligent species are plausible on a continent the size of North America? Ground rules: Magic is not an overt force. There's things like blessing of the fields, more efficient agriculture than in reality..but not grossly so. I am not considering large magical beings such as dragons, beholders, etc. They are going to be there, but not as a factor in the ecology. (They don't need to have a large enough gene pool, etc, to sustain themselves...they are pure magic) I'm not counting the underearth...that will be there, but an almost seperate ecoloy..or perhaps even several of them, at different layers. My object is to have a decent variety of humaniod races for PC's and enemies, without getting as rediculous.
Xiuhcoatl 01-01-08, 04:12 PM	Well, let's look at real life. At the moment, there are four animals on Earth that arguably have an Int score of 3 or higher: Humans, the Great Apes (I'm counting them as one), Dolphins, and Elephants. That's with no magical influence whatsoever. So in a D&D game ... at the very least the core races could find niches. And North America is big ... scale is hard to really think about in D&D ... there is plenty of room for many different races.
Essex 01-01-08, 05:09 PM	I think that the number of sapient species is best based upon environmental niches and background story. Have one race originate in the frozen north (or south); but no more than one because resources are scarce in arctic environments. Maybe this is where some barbaric 'evil' species comes from. They're fine in their native habitat, but they breed out of control when they spread to gentler climates. Have three to five races originate in the oceans. They're big enough and have enough biodiversity to support several sapient populations. Have one race originate in the underdark. They'll have little competition from races that cannot see in the dark. Have one race originate among the mountain peaks. Goliaths and raptorans make good mountain dwellers. Have two or three species descended from the same extinct species. Maybe humans, gnomes, and halflings are all related species that branched off a few million years ago and are now no longer capable of interbreeding. Have one or two species arrive from across the ocean. Different evolutionary paths on the other side of the world can have an effect on your setting. Have one race descended from extraplanar interactions. Maybe elves are secretly descended from neanderthals and creatures of the fairy realms. Give one species a miraculous origin that ties into some racial creator god that split them from their kin. The aventi became aquatic beings because of divine intervention. They were normal humans but are now residents of the ocean.
-rewind- 01-01-08, 05:33 PM	I'm an anthropoligst! Humans are unique amung the animals because we have been forced to adapt to the widest variety of climes. Notice how i've said adapt, and not endure. The reason however, thjat only one sentian species exists on this planet, is becaus ehomosapiens are very good at stealing niches from other beings. Hense why **** erectus and neanderthals are no longer existant. So when I don my race makign hat, i look consiter two things: do i want my new races to be just that "races" of humanity? do i want new species? The race answer to north america is simple. Add one race of man for the mountains, one for the desert, one for all the caverns and tunnels and underground areas, one for the north, and then, one for the wild west, and one for the heavy forests of the north. or, Dwarves for the mountains, orcs for the craigs, elves for the forest, and then desert, wild west (savannahs) and the far north to populate with what ever you want. This emplies that a sentiant being has adapted to a harsh clime that were were most likely forced into because humans were developing everywhere else, and reproductive barriers were established to allow for mutation or deviation from human stock. hense why most of these areas are mostly remote, at least form easiliy survivable coastal regions. here are some thigns to keep in mind: islands humanoids will get small, out ragiously small, mountainous humanoids will get stocky, and possibly develop wider noses and larger brows. subterranian humanoids would most likley have a different skin texture and nose shape to deal with the added humidity, would also be small due to lack of food. also, if they can farm very protein ritch algaes that grow udnerground, they coudl become very very huge. forest humanoids, especailly in the large trees of canada and the west chost, might even return to the trees. Savannah humanoids would resemble central africans, unless you decide to throw in exceptional factors. :w: POSSIBLE RACSIM ALERT :w: If central africans did evolve far enough away from the human genome, and were no longer humans genetically, one could say they might have gained a dexterity bonus( greater surface area = longer limbs), and a constitution penalty, (encrease limb length and redcued body fat reduces tolerance to poisons and makes it difficult to restruct blood flow after injury) while still gaining some fort of fortitude bonus vs. heat exhaustion. I personally believe that all "races" of humanity, shoudl simply be consitered human. and reserve different stats for different species that cannot breed true with humans. now that thats out of the way. desert humanoids is the hardest, because no humanoid has evolved in a desert, we have always mirgated into them. and most of the time, it's only savanahs, and not deserts. I usualy have my desert populations living underground. or around a large oasis, these beings are so far removed form human stock you can go nuts with them. hope that helps, i think most of it was jjust a dumb ramble
M-bark 01-02-08, 03:33 PM	Well, let's look at real life. At the moment, there are four animals on Earth that arguably have an Int score of 3 or higher: Humans, the Great Apes (I'm counting them as one), Dolphins, and Elephants. That's with no magical influence whatsoever. So in a D&D game ... at the very least the core races could find niches. And North America is big ... scale is hard to really think about in D&D ... there is plenty of room for many different races. I'd say that some species of dog would qualify for an intelligence of at least 3 as well if you're counting elephants and dolphins among the more intelligent creatures. You could take the world we're living in as an example (well, during the time of around the year 1500), and then turn every distinct human race into a seperate race for your campaign. I mean, they are saying elves and dwarves are RACES, not SPECIES, and they have SUBRACES, and they can even produce offspring with humans (well, elves and orcs anyway), so you could view different human races as varying to some degree as well. Perhaps humans in your world aren't so darn versatile and great and good at learning and skillfull and all.
sigma999 01-02-08, 03:41 PM	In before flaming and 10 page debate on race in D&D. To answer your question: How many sentient races are there? Too many. That's why Ogres, Trolls, and Dragons like to eat people, because it places them in a comfortable position on top of the food chain.