Post/Author/DateTime	Post
celestialkin 02-02-07, 12:16 PM	Hey guys, I need some opinions as to how my psionic cat PC should handle and manipulate his equipment and items without any hands. Thankfully, right now one of my party members has chosen to "adopt" my character as a pet (which my PC really enjoys), so she has agreed to carry any treasure or valuable items he might come across for him. However, there are two things which I will need to carry on myself most of the time, but I'm not sure if he can manipulate them properly. Once I can afford them these items will be a) my psicrystals & b) my mithral chain shirt. I'm planning on carrying my crystals in a pouch, which is currently hanging from a collar/jade bracelet my master gave me. I had to ask my PC's new owner to tie the pouch on to his collar for him, so I'm not sure if my character is capable of opening/closing the pouch with his mouth, or if he would be able to pull out a crystal from the pouch and carry it around in his mouth (I believe they weigh 1lb. each), unless tiny creatures also get tiny sized crystals like they would for weapons and armor. The mithral chain shirt also has me worried, because I don't want to constantly bug my party member by asking her to remove it from me whenever we are nearing a settlement, or equip me with it when we are going to face danger. Would it be possible for my character to wiggle in and out of his armor by himself without any hands? Thanks in advance.
TheCarrionCrawler 02-02-07, 02:10 PM	I would make the armor quick release. I don't remember exactly what book it was from, but it has a series of straps and cord to get out of armor quickly. I believe it was made for fighters when they fell into a river/lake in full plate and couldn't make the swim checks. It may be in the Forgotten Realms Underdark supplement. Otherwise, I would invest in some sort of cat collar of natural armor or ring of protection. For curiosity's sake, why would a cat wear mithral chain? I would think that any hope of gaining surprise from your psionic attacks would be foiled by your intellegent enemies. I'm not knocking it, but I'm interested in the background story.
Thomar_of_Uointer 02-02-07, 02:13 PM	http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/farHand.htm Did you forget about that one? Definitely a must if you lack opposable thumbs. Anyways, a hand of the mage is only 900 gp, much less than your mithral barding costs.
be_eyain 02-02-07, 02:20 PM	I would make the armor quick release. I don't remember exactly what book it was from, but it has a series of straps and cord to get out of armor quickly. I believe it was made for fighters when they fell into a river/lake in full plate and couldn't make the swim checks. It may be in the Forgotten Realms Underdark supplement. Otherwise, I would invest in some sort of cat collar of natural armor or ring of protection. the quick escape option for armor can be found in the arms and equipment guide, pg. 16
TheCarrionCrawler 02-02-07, 02:54 PM	the quick escape option for armor can be found in the arms and equipment guide, pg. 16 Thanks...I knew it was in one of them. :D
celestialkin 02-02-07, 03:03 PM	Thanks for the help so far guys. For curiosity's sake, why would a cat wear mithral chain? I would think that any hope of gaining surprise from your psionic attacks would be foiled by your intellegent enemies. I'm not knocking it, but I'm interested in the background story. That's why I need to be able to take it of and put it on when I need to. I was thinking of having him (or his owner) remove it whenever we would go to a town, city, or other settlement, so I could go undercover acting like a normal nameless street cat. If we start heading to a dungeon I would then slip it on for more protection. I wasn't planning on letting myself be seen in a dungeon, since at 1st level I already have a +14 to hide and a +12 to move silently, but now that you mentioned it I just realize that enemies might not suspect a small stray cat walking around their lair. Do you think I could actually get away with it? Would enemies really leave me alone? http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/farHand.htm Did you forget about that one? Definitely a must if you lack opposable thumbs. Oh. Can I use that to manipulate items as well (like putting on armor)? I thought this power was only good for throwing or lifting items. Anyways, a hand of the mage is only 900 gp, much less than your mithral barding costs. What is a hand of the mage, and where can I find the rules for it?
Thomar_of_Uointer 02-02-07, 03:22 PM	What is a hand of the mage, and where can I find the rules for it? It's in the DMG, I don't know the page number. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#handoftheMage
Darth Sephiroth 02-02-07, 11:41 PM	Try HERE (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031125a) for equipment slots
Kayli 02-03-07, 12:50 AM	Thanks for the help so far guys. That's why I need to be able to take it of and put it on when I need to. I was thinking of having him (or his owner) remove it whenever we would go to a town, city, or other settlement, so I could go undercover acting like a normal nameless street cat. If we start heading to a dungeon I would then slip it on for more protection. as for putting it on, I would say that you could prbably crawl into it, but someone yould still need to fasten it for you. I would reduce douning time considerably. Also, I would not require the party to role play out every time you downed and undawned your armor, unless it was a battle situation. I would have you say when you were putting on your armor, and taking it off though. I wasn't planning on letting myself be seen in a dungeon, since at 1st level I already have a +14 to hide and a +12 to move silently, but now that you mentioned it I just realize that enemies might not suspect a small stray cat walking around their lair. Do you think I could actually get away with it? Would enemies really leave me alone? First things first. Any Monster with a modicum of inteligence should be imediatly suspicious of any animal in barding. They might see it as some sort of attack cat. something akin to a war dog. Way, back in Ad&D 2ed. I DM'd a campaign where one of the players purchesed a War Dog with his starting money :D Man that thing was brutal. It killed every thing in sight. I still remember the Player pointing at the Troop of Goblins they had encountered and saying "Sick 'em" :D So, I'd say that if they spotted you (Barding on a cat would be suspicious, so I would give them a Bonus to spot checks for this purpose), I would have them regard you with suspicion. Although you probably would not be first on their priority list, until you started doing funky Psionic Sh*t. I would only apply this penalty to situations when you are otherwise visible to your opponents. So if you where hiding in the Shadows, they would not get this Bonus to their spot checks to find you. But if they ambushed your party in the middle of the road, then they would.
Shadowfax7 02-03-07, 08:37 AM	Celestialkin, are you stuck on the idea of a mithril shirt ?? IMO, an amulet (or make it into a 2nd collar) of natural armor would be a far better choice for your psionic cat PC. BTW, how did he get intelligent ?? Awaken ??
celestialkin 02-03-07, 09:10 AM	Celestialkin, are you stuck on the idea of a mithril shirt ?? IMO, an amulet (or make it into a 2nd collar) of natural armor would be a far better choice for your psionic cat PC. BTW, how did he get intelligent ?? Awaken ?? Can you please tell me where I can find the rules for an amulet of natural armor? I'd actually prefer to stay inconspicuous if possible. And yes, fluffwise he is awakened. However, I might change his fluff a little and say that he is the child of a cat and a wildshaped druid (see this link (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=776414) for more info). And yes, dad had a few too many to drink that night...
runestar 02-03-07, 09:17 AM	Is it able to wear a mithral fullplate barding? You could always add the glamered property and make it appear as a pink sweater...(thanks, CO boards)...:D Not entirely related, but when you say cat, I automatically think of this thread... http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=10854629
yrogerg 02-03-07, 04:27 PM	Honestly, I'd just take Inertial Armor, Defensive Precog, or both. They're pretty potent at higher levels. (So saith my old character, a Wilder/Quori Nightmare, who ended up with an AC somewhere in the 40s, all said, and a matching Touch AC and saves. It made my DM cry.)
Ventifax 02-03-07, 10:34 PM	Can you please tell me where I can find the rules for an amulet of natural armor? I'd actually prefer to stay inconspicuous if possibleDMG or SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm)
bhu 02-04-07, 02:07 AM	Take the Leadership Feat as soon as you are able and hire a human butler :D "Butler!! It is time for my friskies!"
Kayli 02-05-07, 02:38 AM	Take the Leadership Feat as soon as you are able and hire a human butler :D "Butler!! It is time for my friskies!" Technicly, with the Leadership Feat, the butler is a follower and not a Hireling (you don't pay followers). If he has the money, he can hire any body he wants with or with out any feats.
celestialkin 02-05-07, 12:32 PM	DMG or SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm) Thanks for the link Ventifax. Take the Leadership Feat as soon as you are able and hire a human butler :D "Butler!! It is time for my friskies!" LoL, that sounds like something my character would say, and for only 1sp a day it's such a tempting idea. Although, a cat running around town with a butler following him might seem a tad bit suspicious.
Darth Sephiroth 02-06-07, 02:04 PM	Although, a cat running around town with a butler following him might seem a tad bit suspicious. Perhaps a ninja butler then
Thomar_of_Uointer 02-06-07, 03:23 PM	Perhaps a ninja butler then Is there any other kind? Butlering is very skill-intensive.
YabaTheWhat 02-06-07, 04:40 PM	A cat should be agile enough to slip into a properly fitted chain shirt. Getting out would be a bit more complicated, and would probably take twice as long as normal (presuming the character has an appropriate armor proficiency). I've seen cats get into and out of small-mouthed vases, pillowcases, etc., so a chain shirt should offer a similar level of difficulty. As for the psicrystal, would she want to retrieve it with her paws, or with her mouth? In either case, she'll need a specially-made pouch with a latch she can work herself. Don't bother working out the mechanics unless you really want to delve into the world of feline anatomy; making the pouch masterwork (+50 gp for items from the misc. mundane equipment list) should cover any technical details. A loose-hanging neck pouch wouldn't do it though; she'd need something strapped to her body so that she won't need to brace it with her paws while opening it with her mouth.
Thomar_of_Uointer 02-06-07, 09:55 PM	The psicrystal can actually help a lot with this sort of thing. She can command it to sprout arms or wings at will, and it could presumably help her don armor and open doors.
Insane Pixie 02-06-07, 10:23 PM	I'm not sure if this has been brought up yet, but a cat's (with an average Strength score) light load would only be two-and-a-quarter pounds. How would it carry anything without encumbrance?
strange_person 02-06-07, 11:05 PM	If you want barding, make it Glamered. A cat with a mithril sweater gets noticed; a cat with just a collar doesn't so much. Since it's Light, you can wear it at night without worrying about fatigue, so you never really need to take it off unless you're worried about keeping it clean. Swimming isn't an issue; cats don't tend to get wet anyways. The weight thing is an issue, but note also that it's mithril and that armor weight already scales by size at a favorable rate. For the psicrystal, I would suggest tying a peice of string around it and dragging it, or having one of the other PCs carry it, or having it carry itself. If there's someone in the party who could be mistaken for a wizard, the cat can pretend to be the nerd's familiar, and the psicrystal can hide out in the spell component pouch.
celestialkin 02-06-07, 11:33 PM	The psicrystal can actually help a lot with this sort of thing. She can command it to sprout arms or wings at will, and it could presumably help her don armor and open doors. That never crossed my mind. You sir are a genius! Until now the psicrystal seemed a bit useless to me. Thanks for the tip. I'm not sure if this has been brought up yet, but a cat's (with an average Strength score) light load would only be two-and-a-quarter pounds. How would it carry anything without encumbrance? Well, my DM house ruled -6 str +4 dex +2 wis modifiers for my character, so he has 7 strength at the moment. My cat is also a quadruped, so a medium load for him would be 18-34.5 lb. Is this a bit much?
Thomar_of_Uointer 02-06-07, 11:36 PM	That never crossed my mind. You sir are a genius! Until now the psicrystal seemed a bit useless to me. Thanks for the tip. Well, my DM house ruled -6 str +4 dex +2 wis modifiers for my character, so he has 7 strength at the moment. My cat is also a quadruped, so a medium load for him would be 18-34.5 lb. Is this a bit much? It's huge. My kobold werecat is burdened by his handy haversack in animal form. Remember that items scale by halves by size, but your weight limit scales by quarters. Ants lifting ten times their own body weight and all that. You're not going to be carrying or handling items much, the psionic items do a lot to get around that. Tattoos just need to be touched while you think a command thought, djores just need to be pointed in a general direction, and psicrowns just need to be worn. Ah, there's one. Use tattoos, they're lighter than potions, and pass a few around to the party so you don't have to take the time to give them one if you need to heal them.
LESSEROF2EVILS 02-07-07, 01:56 AM	"If your worried about carrying around all those items in your little paws, might I recommend to sir a kagaroo pouch...err...I mean a possum pouch. It has a very reasonable price tag. At the low low price of just 1,800 gp, sir can take one home tonight. Shall I wrap it up, or would you like to wear it out..." Seriously, check out the "possum pouch", it's in Complete Adventurer pg 134. With a little tweaking, it could be just what your looking for. Maybe later on, you could get a possum pouch of holding type I. ;)
bhu 02-07-07, 02:05 AM	Speaking of cat armor................ http://jeffdeboer.com/Galleries/CatsMice/tabid/63/Default.aspx
Insane Pixie 02-07-07, 02:14 AM	Well, my DM house ruled -6 str +4 dex +2 wis modifiers for my character, so he has 7 strength at the moment. My cat is also a quadruped, so a medium load for him would be 18-34.5 lb. Is this a bit much? Yeah, I'd say that is a bit much, especially for a common housecat. There's a -8 for a reason: logic. (My perspective being that if I took one of my 25 lb. dumbbells and put it in my cat, it'd probably crush her.)
strange_person 02-07-07, 02:19 AM	You could rule that the cat gets carrying capacity as a biped, and doesn't get any bonuses to stability for extra legs, but gains reach as a tall creature. http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/cgi-bin/gg101.cgi?date=20070131
Rude 02-07-07, 03:16 AM	How would a cat handle his equipment? Purrrrrfectly.
Johnny_Angel 02-07-07, 03:50 AM	Why not just pay the little extra and make your armor glammered? Glammered armor appears as "normal clothing." For a cat I would expect "normal clothing" to be a collar or something of that nature.
Thomar_of_Uointer 02-07-07, 12:31 PM	You could rule that the cat gets carrying capacity as a biped, and doesn't get any bonuses to stability for extra legs, but gains reach as a tall creature. http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/cgi-bin/gg101.cgi?date=20070131 Oh, that character is totally different from an awakened cat. I'd use this: http://www.kobolds-keep.net/Progressions.pdf
Pajaul 02-07-07, 12:50 PM	Some good ideas here, now just combine em. Have your shirt look like a collar, shrink your psy-crystal and hang it on the collar. As far as taking it off and on, I wouldn't think you'd need thumbs to slip on a chain shirt. Now, plate sure, but if it's just a chain shirt, you'd literally only have to slip into it. No help required. Also if you ever wanted to add magical amulets and what not, you could always have them shrunk down to the size of a stud and then just pierce your ears. Worried about people seeing them? Paint them the same color as your fur! I doubt anyone, whom you wouldn't want to notice, could get close enough to examine you that thoroughly anyway.
LESSEROF2EVILS 02-07-07, 04:08 PM	Also if you ever wanted to add magical amulets and what not, you could always have them shrunk down to the size of a stud and then just pierce your ears. Worried about people seeing them? Paint them the same color as your fur! I doubt anyone, whom you wouldn't want to notice, could get close enough to examine you that thoroughly anyway. Another thought, would be to use the rules on combining magical items. Give your collar the natural armor bonus from the amulet, and a deflection bonus from the ring. That way, you wouldn't need to worry about earings and the like. I think the Leadership feat would probably be the way to go though, assuming your DM allows it. That way you could recruit a druid or ranger, and pretend to be his/her animal companion.
Courli 02-16-07, 02:00 PM	I don't know if you've seen them, but my neighbor had a breed of cat that had 5 toes and an opposible thumb. They could pick up cups and bowls and drink from them, open doors, latches, etc.. So just make a feat that gives you that trait. Ringtailed cats have it too. Their are many animals in nature that have opposible thumbs.
HermitIX 02-16-07, 02:14 PM	At the moment I am playing a Tibbit. (from The Dragon Compendium) it’s kinda like a Halfling that can turn in to a Cat. I spend most of my time in cat form so I understand where you are coming from. I would look at “barding” its armor for horses; I would assume you could get some in your size. I took a level of monk so I wouldn’t need to deal with armor. I think you would have item slots on your body but you would have to be creative on how you fill them. I have ear rings(eye slot), Collar (neck slot), tail ring(belt), harness(armor), and claw covers(rings). You don’t need to unequip your stuff when you go it to town. Just hang out next to the wizard. And play familiar. Psionic power I have and use a lot, are telepathy, and telekinesis. not having hands isn’t that detrimental when you use telekinesis.
nighttree 02-16-07, 09:13 PM	He would make a human look after it all....fight his battles for him, keep his "equipment" clean and in good repair,....etc....etc Believe me....I have several cat's that I KNOW are awakened.....and probably Psionic as well.....:uh-huh:
Courli 02-20-07, 08:46 AM	Ever seen the Cat from Outerspace. He was from a race of Psionic cats, they created a telekinetic collor that basically gave them Greater Mage Hand. It enhanced his telekinesis so much that he was even able to lift his space ship.
megnolia 03-24-07, 01:16 AM	um... how about, instead of a chain shirt, you get 'Bracers of armor' made for a cat? which would be closer to mini-leg guards... or maybe booties! hehe, Booties of Armor +8! anyway, those provide an armor bonus to armor class, which don't stack and can go up to +8, equal to full plate and no max dex. besides what else would you want to put in the bracers body slot? the only down side to this idea is that you can't get any armor special abilities like fire resistance, or fortifcation that you get from the cool magical armors.
Fireclave 03-24-07, 01:42 AM	I arm my winged-cat familiar with bracers of armor, a (tail) ring of protection, and a collar of resistance. Ask your DM if you can get them made out of a transparent crystal (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/items/specialMaterials.htm#crystalDeep)so people are less likely to notice them. Alternatively, you could simply be thrifty and learn Inertial Armor for a agumentable +4 AC per hour. My familiar also has a custom Pouch of Holding, which is really just a single side pocket from a HHH. She has "hands", but you can get that ability too with the Gloves of Man from Savage Species. Or you can use powers like Far Hand, Astral Construct, Control Object, and the like.
shades of eternity 03-24-07, 11:08 AM	When I did my awakened cat sorceror, I did the following non magical stuff to compensate (the character was at level 1) 1. Mule 2. pack and harness. 3. Strong defensive metal box with wooden inlay with pull down load (to provide full cover if necessary). 4. two loaded light crossbows on pivot points with easy trigger got an amulet of mage hand as soon as I could which really allows good use of hands.
Fallenangel359 03-24-07, 02:29 PM	tibbit would be fun...