Human racial substitution levels? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Human racial substitution levels? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
James McMurray
03-12-07, 08:27 PM Are there any human racial substitution class levels? I thought they'd be in Races of Destiny, but there aren't any there.

Thanks!
UnrelentingHoror
03-12-07, 08:38 PM Not that I know of and if its not in races of destiny I'm not sure where you'd try looking. Besides what are they gonna make you? More human than human? That doesn't make much sense to me but whatevs.
James McMurray
03-12-07, 09:15 PM It makes as much sense as any other racial substitution level.

Also, it's not "more human than human." That would be Human Paragon, which does exist. It's closer to "a mage that focuses on human stuff."
Rerecros
03-12-07, 09:21 PM Humans are adaptable expansionists in D&D, when taking a class they take the quickest route to power, there by a class with no substitution levels would be well suited for humans.
James McMurray
03-12-07, 09:31 PM Is that in the rules, or flavor text you enjoy and wanted to share?
Minister_for_Moral_Truth
03-12-07, 09:40 PM Being as humans are the default race, it would seem to me that racial substitution levels would be for when a race's use of a class is significantly different from a human's. Thus it would be unlikely that there would ever be a human racial substitution level.
Kearif
03-13-07, 04:09 PM Look at the human's racial traits! Humans are all about adaptability! I could easily see an alternate list of bonus feats for Human Fighters and Wizards, and some other Rogue Special Abilities that are Humans only.
James McMurray
03-13-07, 05:25 PM So basically the answer is that they don't exist, and depending on who you ask they should or shouldn't exist?

Thanks everyone!
WinterPsionic
03-13-07, 06:13 PM Based on the way they've been presented I can't really see a class benefiting from Human substitution levels...I suppose there may be some precedent for the Psionic classes as humans may have a different approach to some of it based on their mindset....can't really see it for anything else.
Treymordin
03-13-07, 06:46 PM :D Look at the human paragon in Unearthed Arcana!:D
Poison_Dusk
03-13-07, 06:54 PM Besides what are they gonna make you? More human than human? .

Am I the only one who thought of Rob Zombie here?

Sorry about the off-topic comment.
James McMurray
03-13-07, 06:55 PM No, you're not the only one. :)

TreyMordn, the human paragon has already been discussed. It's not a racial substitution class, but it is really nice.
HomebrewedMonster
03-14-07, 12:30 AM I do not believe that there will ever be a human substitution level because the base classes in the PHB are "human". So all the other races get racial substitution levels to give them a racial flavoring to them.

Feel free to have your opinion, but they do not exist nor will they ever be produced by WoTC.

I could see racial substitution levels for different regions for the various campaigns that are already established in Dungeons and Dragons. Look into Champions of Valor and Ruin, they both have substitution levels and abilities for the various factions and nations that exist in Forgotten Realms.

I can see a region of humans having substitution levels to add flavor to the specialization of that area.

All that was posted in this response is the opinion of HomebrewedMonster and does not have to be taken as words written in stone, nor do they have to be your own.
UnrelentingHoror
03-14-07, 04:30 AM Am I the only one who thought of Rob Zombie here?

Sorry about the off-topic comment.

Hehe yeah....:D

Anyways I guess I misunderstood the question to begin with as all this is kind of confusing so to clarify, what is a substitution level? Is that like the alternate class abilities you can choose to get at certain levels like in the PHB2?
James McMurray
03-14-07, 11:56 AM No, it's levels that certain races trade out for. For instance, an Azurin Cleric can gain the ability to use turn attempts to give themself extra essentia for one turn.

There are also planar substitution levels in the Planar Handbook where you trade normal class abilities for planar oriented ones. I don't have the book handy to be sure, but one of them I believe lets clerics dismiss extraplanar creatures instead of turning undead.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
James McMurray 03-12-07, 08:27 PM	Are there any human racial substitution class levels? I thought they'd be in Races of Destiny, but there aren't any there. Thanks!
UnrelentingHoror 03-12-07, 08:38 PM	Not that I know of and if its not in races of destiny I'm not sure where you'd try looking. Besides what are they gonna make you? More human than human? That doesn't make much sense to me but whatevs.
James McMurray 03-12-07, 09:15 PM	It makes as much sense as any other racial substitution level. Also, it's not "more human than human." That would be Human Paragon, which does exist. It's closer to "a mage that focuses on human stuff."
Rerecros 03-12-07, 09:21 PM	Humans are adaptable expansionists in D&D, when taking a class they take the quickest route to power, there by a class with no substitution levels would be well suited for humans.
James McMurray 03-12-07, 09:31 PM	Is that in the rules, or flavor text you enjoy and wanted to share?
Minister_for_Moral_Truth 03-12-07, 09:40 PM	Being as humans are the default race, it would seem to me that racial substitution levels would be for when a race's use of a class is significantly different from a human's. Thus it would be unlikely that there would ever be a human racial substitution level.
Kearif 03-13-07, 04:09 PM	Look at the human's racial traits! Humans are all about adaptability! I could easily see an alternate list of bonus feats for Human Fighters and Wizards, and some other Rogue Special Abilities that are Humans only.
James McMurray 03-13-07, 05:25 PM	So basically the answer is that they don't exist, and depending on who you ask they should or shouldn't exist? Thanks everyone!
WinterPsionic 03-13-07, 06:13 PM	Based on the way they've been presented I can't really see a class benefiting from Human substitution levels...I suppose there may be some precedent for the Psionic classes as humans may have a different approach to some of it based on their mindset....can't really see it for anything else.
Treymordin 03-13-07, 06:46 PM	:D Look at the human paragon in Unearthed Arcana!:D
Poison_Dusk 03-13-07, 06:54 PM	Besides what are they gonna make you? More human than human? . Am I the only one who thought of Rob Zombie here? Sorry about the off-topic comment.
James McMurray 03-13-07, 06:55 PM	No, you're not the only one. :) TreyMordn, the human paragon has already been discussed. It's not a racial substitution class, but it is really nice.
HomebrewedMonster 03-14-07, 12:30 AM	I do not believe that there will ever be a human substitution level because the base classes in the PHB are "human". So all the other races get racial substitution levels to give them a racial flavoring to them. Feel free to have your opinion, but they do not exist nor will they ever be produced by WoTC. I could see racial substitution levels for different regions for the various campaigns that are already established in Dungeons and Dragons. Look into Champions of Valor and Ruin, they both have substitution levels and abilities for the various factions and nations that exist in Forgotten Realms. I can see a region of humans having substitution levels to add flavor to the specialization of that area. All that was posted in this response is the opinion of HomebrewedMonster and does not have to be taken as words written in stone, nor do they have to be your own.
UnrelentingHoror 03-14-07, 04:30 AM	Am I the only one who thought of Rob Zombie here? Sorry about the off-topic comment. Hehe yeah....:D Anyways I guess I misunderstood the question to begin with as all this is kind of confusing so to clarify, what is a substitution level? Is that like the alternate class abilities you can choose to get at certain levels like in the PHB2?
James McMurray 03-14-07, 11:56 AM	No, it's levels that certain races trade out for. For instance, an Azurin Cleric can gain the ability to use turn attempts to give themself extra essentia for one turn. There are also planar substitution levels in the Planar Handbook where you trade normal class abilities for planar oriented ones. I don't have the book handy to be sure, but one of them I believe lets clerics dismiss extraplanar creatures instead of turning undead.