humans..... [Archive] - Wizards Community

humans..... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
gullas
03-20-07, 03:40 PM ok......so when I was taking a walk home , I suddenly came up with an idea......how about letting humans instead of getting 1 feat , 4 extra skill points for the first lvl and 1 there after , how about letting them have 2 feats and none extra skill points:plotting:
Nat_20
03-20-07, 03:47 PM i thought about this, but two feats may be a lil to much, the humans are already one of the better races in the game in my opinion, no need to try and juice more out of them, i did have it once where one of my players wanted more skills so i let him forgo his extra feat for second set of skill bonuses, and he was good with it... but another feat can be a powergamers dream... i wouldn't allow it in my games
gullas
03-20-07, 03:48 PM yeah you could be right ...........maybe 2 feats and 1 extra skill point at first lvl and one every fifth :) ?
AMGriffin
03-20-07, 03:54 PM Oh god no. Don't give humans another free feat with no limitations. That's just screaming overpowered. It'd mean humans could access some prestige classes WAAAAY earlier then any other race.

In my campaigns I've removed the one extra skillpoint per level, I just have no real understanding of why humans would get extra skillpoints, adaptability=/= learning skills BTW. Nor does not living as long signify anything either.

I've instead replaced the 1 extra skillpoint per level with 1 free +2/+2 Skill bonus feat such as altertness or athletic, and then allow them to choose one cross-class skill to count as a class skill. I've axed "any" as a favored class, replacing it with letting humans Choose their favored class.

That's about all I've done to humans.
Melpomene
03-20-07, 04:35 PM The human bonus skill is akin to giving them +2 Int without boosting thier spellcasting.
Kadasbrass
03-20-07, 04:48 PM letting them choose any two feats would just be asking for trouble. However you could give them predetermiend feat disguised as a racial trait and it wouldn't be as bad. I gave my humans able learner as a racial trait.
Goreg Skullcrusher
03-20-07, 08:09 PM The human bonus skill is akin to giving them +2 Int without boosting thier spellcasting.

Except it doesn't provide bonuses to those who have Int-based benefits (such as the Swashbuckler or Duelist classes), nor does it protect you any better than a non-human from poisons that damage Int.
neilthrun
03-20-07, 08:17 PM I've instead replaced the 1 extra skillpoint per level with 1 free +2/+2 Skill bonus feat such as altertness or athletic, and then allow them to choose one cross-class skill to count as a class skill. I've axed "any" as a favored class, replacing it with letting humans Choose their favored class.

That's about all I've done to humans.

Seems a bit overpowered. This could be used to enter alot of prcs early. May prcs rely on a character having to multiclass to enter into them, this could negate that. There are some feats that give skills as class skills, city slicker and aprentice feats. These feats are generally weak, give only specific skills, and have to be taken at first lvl. Granting humans a free class skill to all of their classes is quite a boon, and if a player doesnt use it to enter a prc early theyre most likley to use it on use magic device, or use psionic device. Something that I would be adverse to handing out for free without multiclassing.

My opinion? Humans are fine.
Thomar_of_Uointer
03-20-07, 08:39 PM Except it doesn't provide bonuses to those who have Int-based benefits (such as the Swashbuckler or Duelist classes), nor does it protect you any better than a non-human from poisons that damage Int.

None of which are in the PHB, Goreg. :P

Humans don't need more bonus feats. They're a solid and flexible race already, and the skill points are very nice for meeting PrC prerequisites and fleshing out abilities at lower levels.
AMGriffin
03-20-07, 08:39 PM Seems a bit overpowered. This could be used to enter alot of prcs early. May prcs rely on a character having to multiclass to enter into them, this could negate that. There are some feats that give skills as class skills, city slicker and aprentice feats. These feats are generally weak, give only specific skills, and have to be taken at first lvl. Granting humans a free class skill to all of their classes is quite a boon, and if a player doesnt use it to enter a prc early theyre most likley to use it on use magic device, or use psionic device. Something that I would be adverse to handing out for free without multiclassing.

My opinion? Humans are fine.

Yes, but I don't like the one extra skillpoint per level. It implies some sort of superiority in humans that I have a hard time visualizing.

Now what if I removed the +2/+2 class skill feat, and the 1 extra skillpoint per level and then let them choose a feat that could only be taken at first level?
Goreg Skullcrusher
03-20-07, 08:46 PM None of which are in the PHB, Goreg. :P

I'm confused. I was pointing out that the human skill bonus isn't directly comparable to a +2 Int bonus. I'm not sure how my point changes by it not being PHB material.

For what it's worth, the Duelist and Id Moss (int poison) are straight out of the DMG, so Core material.
Thomar_of_Uointer
03-20-07, 08:58 PM I'm confused. I was pointing out that the human skill bonus isn't directly comparable to a +2 Int bonus. I'm not sure how my point changes by it not being PHB material.

For what it's worth, the Duelist and Id Moss (int poison) are straight out of the DMG, so Core material.

I was very careful not to say "core"...

Anyways, you can't expect everyone to mention every core class, prestiege class, magic item, and feat when they're summarizing the effects of an ability modifier. No need to bring up something not mentioned when it really couldn't have been mentioned unless you have a solid argument to support with it. It makes you sound like you're trying to one-up everybody.
Goreg Skullcrusher
03-20-07, 09:04 PM I was very careful not to say "core"...

Anyways, you can't expect everyone to mention every core class, prestiege class, magic item, and feat when they're summarizing the effects of an ability modifier. No need to bring up something not mentioned when it really couldn't have been mentioned unless you have a solid argument to support with it.

Well, it was my impression that the crux of the OP's question was if it was reasonable to swap out the human skill point bonus for an additional feat. (By reasonable, I mean comparable power-wise)

It was my intent to point out that the skill point bonus was considerably less useful than a straight +2 Int bonus. Trying to provide more credence to the skill points being less potent than an additional feat.
Spikes01k
03-20-07, 11:36 PM The one thing I would allow is the movement of a single stat point.
gullas
03-21-07, 12:17 PM ok:eek: ......I was just wandering ...nice to see so many replies:D
Seldriss
03-21-07, 12:45 PM The main advantage of humans is often neglected.
In most of the worlds, humans are ruling the main kingdoms/empires/regions.
This means they have an easier access to knowledge, merchandises, training and so on.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
gullas 03-20-07, 03:40 PM	ok......so when I was taking a walk home , I suddenly came up with an idea......how about letting humans instead of getting 1 feat , 4 extra skill points for the first lvl and 1 there after , how about letting them have 2 feats and none extra skill points:plotting:
Nat_20 03-20-07, 03:47 PM	i thought about this, but two feats may be a lil to much, the humans are already one of the better races in the game in my opinion, no need to try and juice more out of them, i did have it once where one of my players wanted more skills so i let him forgo his extra feat for second set of skill bonuses, and he was good with it... but another feat can be a powergamers dream... i wouldn't allow it in my games
gullas 03-20-07, 03:48 PM	yeah you could be right ...........maybe 2 feats and 1 extra skill point at first lvl and one every fifth :) ?
AMGriffin 03-20-07, 03:54 PM	Oh god no. Don't give humans another free feat with no limitations. That's just screaming overpowered. It'd mean humans could access some prestige classes WAAAAY earlier then any other race. In my campaigns I've removed the one extra skillpoint per level, I just have no real understanding of why humans would get extra skillpoints, adaptability=/= learning skills BTW. Nor does not living as long signify anything either. I've instead replaced the 1 extra skillpoint per level with 1 free +2/+2 Skill bonus feat such as altertness or athletic, and then allow them to choose one cross-class skill to count as a class skill. I've axed "any" as a favored class, replacing it with letting humans Choose their favored class. That's about all I've done to humans.
Melpomene 03-20-07, 04:35 PM	The human bonus skill is akin to giving them +2 Int without boosting thier spellcasting.
Kadasbrass 03-20-07, 04:48 PM	letting them choose any two feats would just be asking for trouble. However you could give them predetermiend feat disguised as a racial trait and it wouldn't be as bad. I gave my humans able learner as a racial trait.
Goreg Skullcrusher 03-20-07, 08:09 PM	The human bonus skill is akin to giving them +2 Int without boosting thier spellcasting. Except it doesn't provide bonuses to those who have Int-based benefits (such as the Swashbuckler or Duelist classes), nor does it protect you any better than a non-human from poisons that damage Int.
neilthrun 03-20-07, 08:17 PM	I've instead replaced the 1 extra skillpoint per level with 1 free +2/+2 Skill bonus feat such as altertness or athletic, and then allow them to choose one cross-class skill to count as a class skill. I've axed "any" as a favored class, replacing it with letting humans Choose their favored class. That's about all I've done to humans. Seems a bit overpowered. This could be used to enter alot of prcs early. May prcs rely on a character having to multiclass to enter into them, this could negate that. There are some feats that give skills as class skills, city slicker and aprentice feats. These feats are generally weak, give only specific skills, and have to be taken at first lvl. Granting humans a free class skill to all of their classes is quite a boon, and if a player doesnt use it to enter a prc early theyre most likley to use it on use magic device, or use psionic device. Something that I would be adverse to handing out for free without multiclassing. My opinion? Humans are fine.
Thomar_of_Uointer 03-20-07, 08:39 PM	Except it doesn't provide bonuses to those who have Int-based benefits (such as the Swashbuckler or Duelist classes), nor does it protect you any better than a non-human from poisons that damage Int. None of which are in the PHB, Goreg. :P Humans don't need more bonus feats. They're a solid and flexible race already, and the skill points are very nice for meeting PrC prerequisites and fleshing out abilities at lower levels.
AMGriffin 03-20-07, 08:39 PM	Seems a bit overpowered. This could be used to enter alot of prcs early. May prcs rely on a character having to multiclass to enter into them, this could negate that. There are some feats that give skills as class skills, city slicker and aprentice feats. These feats are generally weak, give only specific skills, and have to be taken at first lvl. Granting humans a free class skill to all of their classes is quite a boon, and if a player doesnt use it to enter a prc early theyre most likley to use it on use magic device, or use psionic device. Something that I would be adverse to handing out for free without multiclassing. My opinion? Humans are fine. Yes, but I don't like the one extra skillpoint per level. It implies some sort of superiority in humans that I have a hard time visualizing. Now what if I removed the +2/+2 class skill feat, and the 1 extra skillpoint per level and then let them choose a feat that could only be taken at first level?
Goreg Skullcrusher 03-20-07, 08:46 PM	None of which are in the PHB, Goreg. :P I'm confused. I was pointing out that the human skill bonus isn't directly comparable to a +2 Int bonus. I'm not sure how my point changes by it not being PHB material. For what it's worth, the Duelist and Id Moss (int poison) are straight out of the DMG, so Core material.
Thomar_of_Uointer 03-20-07, 08:58 PM	I'm confused. I was pointing out that the human skill bonus isn't directly comparable to a +2 Int bonus. I'm not sure how my point changes by it not being PHB material. For what it's worth, the Duelist and Id Moss (int poison) are straight out of the DMG, so Core material. I was very careful not to say "core"... Anyways, you can't expect everyone to mention every core class, prestiege class, magic item, and feat when they're summarizing the effects of an ability modifier. No need to bring up something not mentioned when it really couldn't have been mentioned unless you have a solid argument to support with it. It makes you sound like you're trying to one-up everybody.
Goreg Skullcrusher 03-20-07, 09:04 PM	I was very careful not to say "core"... Anyways, you can't expect everyone to mention every core class, prestiege class, magic item, and feat when they're summarizing the effects of an ability modifier. No need to bring up something not mentioned when it really couldn't have been mentioned unless you have a solid argument to support with it. Well, it was my impression that the crux of the OP's question was if it was reasonable to swap out the human skill point bonus for an additional feat. (By reasonable, I mean comparable power-wise) It was my intent to point out that the skill point bonus was considerably less useful than a straight +2 Int bonus. Trying to provide more credence to the skill points being less potent than an additional feat.
Spikes01k 03-20-07, 11:36 PM	The one thing I would allow is the movement of a single stat point.
gullas 03-21-07, 12:17 PM	ok:eek: ......I was just wandering ...nice to see so many replies:D
Seldriss 03-21-07, 12:45 PM	The main advantage of humans is often neglected. In most of the worlds, humans are ruling the main kingdoms/empires/regions. This means they have an easier access to knowledge, merchandises, training and so on.