I'm new, want to make a bugbear pc [Archive] - Wizards Community

I'm new, want to make a bugbear pc [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
GWARAndy
03-24-07, 05:29 PM I'm trying to make a bugbear PC for my party, as a slave to an Orc Wizard. I'm curious about a few things, as I've just started out.

In the monster manual it says that a bugbear character gains 6 x 2(int modifier) or something close to that skill points every "humanoid" level. What is a humanoid level?

Also, when I start up a bugbear and he's a fighter, do I take the base HPs for a bugbear or the base HPs for a fighter, and how does a bugbear advance in levels? Also, does he get the fighter class skills as well as climb, move silently, spot and the other skill listed in the monster manual?

I have similar questions for an orc pc, but I figure the more complicated one would be the bugbear.

Thanks in advance!
Neutronium_Dragon
03-24-07, 05:35 PM My first bit of advice would be this: If you're new to the game, don't try to make monstrous PCs. It will only lead to grief. ;) I would highly suggest that you simply use the human stat block and describe it as a bugbear, at least until you have experience with the ruleset.

The orc wizard is actually much, much simpler. You can handle it this way: Create a half-orc wizard, then give it an additional +2 to Strength, a -2 to Wisdom, and the Light Sensitivity trait listed in the orc description. Voila, an orc wizard.
TheCarrionCrawler
03-24-07, 10:59 PM I'm trying to make a bugbear PC for my party, as a slave to an Orc Wizard. I'm curious about a few things, as I've just started out.

In the monster manual it says that a bugbear character gains 6 x 2(int modifier) or something close to that skill points every "humanoid" level. What is a humanoid level?

Also, when I start up a bugbear and he's a fighter, do I take the base HPs for a bugbear or the base HPs for a fighter, and how does a bugbear advance in levels? Also, does he get the fighter class skills as well as climb, move silently, spot and the other skill listed in the monster manual?

I have similar questions for an orc pc, but I figure the more complicated one would be the bugbear.

Thanks in advance!

I love playing monsterous characters. Try looking at Savage Species. The text explaining how to make a monsterous character includes a bugbear barbarian named Gnarsht (or something similar).
Thomar_of_Uointer
03-25-07, 12:11 AM RTFSRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monstersAsRaces.htm).

That said, bugbears get 3 racial Hit Dice. Because they are humanoids, these are humanoid Hit Dice. That's what the Monster Manual is referring to.

When your bugbear starts taking levels in Fighter (he'll effectively be a level 5 character as a level 1 fighter, read the link above), he treats it like multiclassing. He gains all of the Fighter abilities in addition to his racial abilities. He advances as a character 4 levels lower than his effective level (by experience points) due to his 3 racial Hit Dice and +1 level adjustment (again, read the above link).
enygmatic_me
03-25-07, 01:48 AM Thomar_of_Uointer has covered the rules end of things. As you are new to the game I would offer you this piece of advice. Don't play a Bugbear. As fine as they are as monsters you will find yourself a little worse off when compared to a Human Fighter of the same level.

A Bugbear gets the following adjustments:

* +4 Strength, +2 Dexterity, +2 Constitution, -2 Charisma.
* Medium size.
* A bugbear’s base land speed is 30 feet.
* Racial Hit Dice: A bugbear begins with three levels of humanoid, which provide 3d8 Hit Dice, a base attack bonus of +2, and base saving throw bonuses of Fort +1, Ref +3, and Will +1.
* Racial Skills: A bugbear’s humanoid levels give it skill points equal to 6 × (2 + Int modifier). Its class skills are Climb, Hide, Listen, Move Silently, Search, and Spot.
* Racial Feats: A bugbear’s humanoid levels give it two feats.
* +3 natural armor bonus.
* +4 racial bonus on Move Silently checks.
* Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft., scent.
* Automatic Languages: Common, Goblin. Bonus Languages: Draconic, Elven, Giant, Gnoll, Orc.
* Favored Class: Rogue.
* Level adjustment +1.

So, as a First level fighter (making him a 5th level character) with the following, generous ability scores (18, 17, 16, 16, 15, 15) your character might look something like this.

Strength 18 (22)
Dexterity 16 (18)
Constitution 16 (18)
Intelligence 15
Wisdom 17
Charisma 15 (13)

HD (HP) 3d8+1d10+16 (39) - max first HD + average of remaining HD + con mod

Fort +7
Ref +7
WP +4

BAB +3

Feats:
Weapon Focus (Great Sword)
Power Attack
Cleave

Attack: Melee: +10 Greatsword 2d6+6

Now lets look at the alternative using the same ability scores.

Strength 18
Dexterity 16
Constitution 17 (18 at 4th)
Intelligence 15
Wisdom 16
Charisma 15

HD (HP) 5d10+17 (47) - max first HD + average of remaining HD + con mod

Fort +8
Ref +4
WP +4

BAB +5

Feats:
Weapon Focus (Greatsword) - Race Bonus
Power Attack - Level 1
Cleave - Fighter Bonus level 1
Quick Draw - Fighter Bonus level 2
Combat Reflexes - Level 3
Weapon Specialization (Greatsword) - Fighter Bonus level 4

Attack: Melee +10 Greatsword 2d6+6 19-20/x2

As you can see the Human fighter, on average, will have more HP at this point and is dealing the same damage. As they progress the Human will most likely stay a head of the Bugbear on HP, will gain additional attacks per round earlier, and have more over all feats (not to mention the ability to obtain the feats the require more levels in fighter).

To sum up, if it is roleplaying that has you really wanting to go for the Bugbear then do it and enjoy. If you are just looking for a good way to familiarize yourself with the game, in my opinion, just go Human (which really is one of the best races in the game). Good luck either way and welcome to the game.
cog_n_taz
03-25-07, 02:17 AM this (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=11060404&postcount=58) may be useful.
GWARAndy
03-25-07, 08:07 AM Thanks all!

I basically wanted to add the bugbear as flavor, so either making him a human and describing him as a bugbear or stripping him of some of his prowess and dropping some hit dice as a compromise might be an option. Since it's my first game I doubt anyone will have an issue with this... but if they do... I'll make up "half bugbear-half human" and just say that his father was ...reallllllyyyy drunk. :)

Thanks for the side by side comparison, really shows how bugbears start to fall behind. It's really kind of sad, because they are a cool race, in my opinion. I have been reading about ECL and LAs and the such and how they were meant to keep people from playing monstrous pcs. I think, since I like to play monstrous pcs, I will have to figure out a way to remove that penalty that isn't abusive to the rules in the future. Since I will probably be the DM, as well, it shouldn't be too difficult to get away with this ;)

Again, thanks all!
Thomar_of_Uointer
03-25-07, 02:40 PM Thanks all!

I basically wanted to add the bugbear as flavor, so either making him a human and describing him as a bugbear or stripping him of some of his prowess and dropping some hit dice as a compromise might be an option. Since it's my first game I doubt anyone will have an issue with this... but if they do... I'll make up "half bugbear-half human" and just say that his father was ...reallllllyyyy drunk. :)

Thanks for the side by side comparison, really shows how bugbears start to fall behind. It's really kind of sad, because they are a cool race, in my opinion. I have been reading about ECL and LAs and the such and how they were meant to keep people from playing monstrous pcs. I think, since I like to play monstrous pcs, I will have to figure out a way to remove that penalty that isn't abusive to the rules in the future. Since I will probably be the DM, as well, it shouldn't be too difficult to get away with this ;)

Again, thanks all!

As long as you're playing a goblinoid, why not try a hobgoblin? They're only LA +1.

Oh, and it's no stretch to say that a human has some goblinoid blood in him. Judging by all the templates published, that sort of thing seems to happen all the time. Check the setting with your DM first, this thing is quite likely to happen in Eberron, but very unlikely in most other settings I know of.
enygmatic_me
03-25-07, 05:29 PM As long as you're playing a goblinoid, why not try a hobgoblin? They're only LA +1.

Oh, and it's no stretch to say that a human has some goblinoid blood in him. Judging by all the templates published, that sort of thing seems to happen all the time. Check the setting with your DM first, this thing is quite likely to happen in Eberron, but very unlikely in most other settings I know of.

Considering there is a Minotaur bloodline out there I don't think a Bugbear Bloodline is out of the question. Using said Minotaur Bloodline as comparrison it shouldn't be hard to create one.
Thomar_of_Uointer
03-25-07, 06:45 PM Considering there is a Minotaur bloodline out there I don't think a Bugbear Bloodline is out of the question. Using said Minotaur Bloodline as comparrison it shouldn't be hard to create one.

Well, there's a baseline for that sort of thing. The minotaur is historically descended from human royalty.
enygmatic_me
03-25-07, 10:25 PM Well, there's a baseline for that sort of thing. The minotaur is historically descended from human royalty.

True, but the myth of the Minotaur also involves King Minos angering Poseiden who, in turn inflicted Minos' wife; Pasiphae, to become obsessed with a White Bull that Poseiden had sent to Minos. Through some rather interesting methods Pasiphae had a dalliance with the White Bull and later gives birth to the Minotaur.

All of that has nothing to do with D&D though and I was just pointing out that the Minotaur Bloodline could be used as a source of comparison to design a Bugbear Bloodline.
Alac Luin
03-26-07, 08:16 PM As long as you're playing a goblinoid, why not try a hobgoblin? They're only LA +1.

I'd suggest the hobgoblin over bugbear also.
The +1 LA still takes a toll on the charicter, but the hobgoblin does not have the 3 humanoid hit die.

This may be the most important part, talk to the DM of the game you are joining.
It is up to the DM on what will be allowed, what fit's their world.
If you have already spoken to the DM, ignore this :)
Arcane Guyver
03-26-07, 11:35 PM If you want to play a bugbear from level 1, here's the progression I whipped up. I don't have the Savage Species book, which I think also has the bugbear statted out this way. I don't know how to do tables, so I apologize in advance.

Bugbear
• Type (Subtype): Humanoid (goblin).
• Ability Adjustments: +2 Dex, -2 Cha.
• Darkvision: You have darkvision out to 60 feet.
• Scent: You have the scent ability.
• Goblin Skulk: +4 racial bonus on Move Silently checks.
• Automatic Language: Common and Goblin.
• Bonus Languages: ??? (I'm really unsure what languages should go here).
• Favored Class: Rogue & racial Humanoid levels.

Humanoid Racial Levels
HD: d8
Skills (2/level): Climb, Hide, Listen, Move Silently, Search, and Spot.
Weapon Proficiency: Simple.
Armor Proficiency: Light, Shields.
Base Attack Bonus: Average (as Bard).
Saving Throws: Good Reflex save, poor Fortitude and Will saves.

Bugbear Progression
1st Level: You get the first level of Humanoid.
2nd Level: +2 Con, +1 natural armor.
3rd Level: Second level of Humanoid, +2 Str, +1 natural armor.
4th Level: Third level of Humanoid, +2 Str, +1 natural armor.
Ace_of_time
03-27-07, 12:57 AM What rule set are you useing?(3.0 or3.5) Are you starting at 1st level or what?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
GWARAndy 03-24-07, 05:29 PM	I'm trying to make a bugbear PC for my party, as a slave to an Orc Wizard. I'm curious about a few things, as I've just started out. In the monster manual it says that a bugbear character gains 6 x 2(int modifier) or something close to that skill points every "humanoid" level. What is a humanoid level? Also, when I start up a bugbear and he's a fighter, do I take the base HPs for a bugbear or the base HPs for a fighter, and how does a bugbear advance in levels? Also, does he get the fighter class skills as well as climb, move silently, spot and the other skill listed in the monster manual? I have similar questions for an orc pc, but I figure the more complicated one would be the bugbear. Thanks in advance!
Neutronium_Dragon 03-24-07, 05:35 PM	My first bit of advice would be this: If you're new to the game, don't try to make monstrous PCs. It will only lead to grief. ;) I would highly suggest that you simply use the human stat block and describe it as a bugbear, at least until you have experience with the ruleset. The orc wizard is actually much, much simpler. You can handle it this way: Create a half-orc wizard, then give it an additional +2 to Strength, a -2 to Wisdom, and the Light Sensitivity trait listed in the orc description. Voila, an orc wizard.
TheCarrionCrawler 03-24-07, 10:59 PM	I'm trying to make a bugbear PC for my party, as a slave to an Orc Wizard. I'm curious about a few things, as I've just started out. In the monster manual it says that a bugbear character gains 6 x 2(int modifier) or something close to that skill points every "humanoid" level. What is a humanoid level? Also, when I start up a bugbear and he's a fighter, do I take the base HPs for a bugbear or the base HPs for a fighter, and how does a bugbear advance in levels? Also, does he get the fighter class skills as well as climb, move silently, spot and the other skill listed in the monster manual? I have similar questions for an orc pc, but I figure the more complicated one would be the bugbear. Thanks in advance! I love playing monsterous characters. Try looking at Savage Species. The text explaining how to make a monsterous character includes a bugbear barbarian named Gnarsht (or something similar).
Thomar_of_Uointer 03-25-07, 12:11 AM	RTFSRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monstersAsRaces.htm). That said, bugbears get 3 racial Hit Dice. Because they are humanoids, these are humanoid Hit Dice. That's what the Monster Manual is referring to. When your bugbear starts taking levels in Fighter (he'll effectively be a level 5 character as a level 1 fighter, read the link above), he treats it like multiclassing. He gains all of the Fighter abilities in addition to his racial abilities. He advances as a character 4 levels lower than his effective level (by experience points) due to his 3 racial Hit Dice and +1 level adjustment (again, read the above link).
enygmatic_me 03-25-07, 01:48 AM	Thomar_of_Uointer has covered the rules end of things. As you are new to the game I would offer you this piece of advice. Don't play a Bugbear. As fine as they are as monsters you will find yourself a little worse off when compared to a Human Fighter of the same level. A Bugbear gets the following adjustments: * +4 Strength, +2 Dexterity, +2 Constitution, -2 Charisma. * Medium size. * A bugbear’s base land speed is 30 feet. * Racial Hit Dice: A bugbear begins with three levels of humanoid, which provide 3d8 Hit Dice, a base attack bonus of +2, and base saving throw bonuses of Fort +1, Ref +3, and Will +1. * Racial Skills: A bugbear’s humanoid levels give it skill points equal to 6 × (2 + Int modifier). Its class skills are Climb, Hide, Listen, Move Silently, Search, and Spot. * Racial Feats: A bugbear’s humanoid levels give it two feats. * +3 natural armor bonus. * +4 racial bonus on Move Silently checks. * Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft., scent. * Automatic Languages: Common, Goblin. Bonus Languages: Draconic, Elven, Giant, Gnoll, Orc. * Favored Class: Rogue. * Level adjustment +1. So, as a First level fighter (making him a 5th level character) with the following, generous ability scores (18, 17, 16, 16, 15, 15) your character might look something like this. Strength 18 (22) Dexterity 16 (18) Constitution 16 (18) Intelligence 15 Wisdom 17 Charisma 15 (13) HD (HP) 3d8+1d10+16 (39) - max first HD + average of remaining HD + con mod Fort +7 Ref +7 WP +4 BAB +3 Feats: Weapon Focus (Great Sword) Power Attack Cleave Attack: Melee: +10 Greatsword 2d6+6 Now lets look at the alternative using the same ability scores. Strength 18 Dexterity 16 Constitution 17 (18 at 4th) Intelligence 15 Wisdom 16 Charisma 15 HD (HP) 5d10+17 (47) - max first HD + average of remaining HD + con mod Fort +8 Ref +4 WP +4 BAB +5 Feats: Weapon Focus (Greatsword) - Race Bonus Power Attack - Level 1 Cleave - Fighter Bonus level 1 Quick Draw - Fighter Bonus level 2 Combat Reflexes - Level 3 Weapon Specialization (Greatsword) - Fighter Bonus level 4 Attack: Melee +10 Greatsword 2d6+6 19-20/x2 As you can see the Human fighter, on average, will have more HP at this point and is dealing the same damage. As they progress the Human will most likely stay a head of the Bugbear on HP, will gain additional attacks per round earlier, and have more over all feats (not to mention the ability to obtain the feats the require more levels in fighter). To sum up, if it is roleplaying that has you really wanting to go for the Bugbear then do it and enjoy. If you are just looking for a good way to familiarize yourself with the game, in my opinion, just go Human (which really is one of the best races in the game). Good luck either way and welcome to the game.
cog_n_taz 03-25-07, 02:17 AM	this (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=11060404&postcount=58) may be useful.
GWARAndy 03-25-07, 08:07 AM	Thanks all! I basically wanted to add the bugbear as flavor, so either making him a human and describing him as a bugbear or stripping him of some of his prowess and dropping some hit dice as a compromise might be an option. Since it's my first game I doubt anyone will have an issue with this... but if they do... I'll make up "half bugbear-half human" and just say that his father was ...reallllllyyyy drunk. :) Thanks for the side by side comparison, really shows how bugbears start to fall behind. It's really kind of sad, because they are a cool race, in my opinion. I have been reading about ECL and LAs and the such and how they were meant to keep people from playing monstrous pcs. I think, since I like to play monstrous pcs, I will have to figure out a way to remove that penalty that isn't abusive to the rules in the future. Since I will probably be the DM, as well, it shouldn't be too difficult to get away with this ;) Again, thanks all!
Thomar_of_Uointer 03-25-07, 02:40 PM	Thanks all! I basically wanted to add the bugbear as flavor, so either making him a human and describing him as a bugbear or stripping him of some of his prowess and dropping some hit dice as a compromise might be an option. Since it's my first game I doubt anyone will have an issue with this... but if they do... I'll make up "half bugbear-half human" and just say that his father was ...reallllllyyyy drunk. :) Thanks for the side by side comparison, really shows how bugbears start to fall behind. It's really kind of sad, because they are a cool race, in my opinion. I have been reading about ECL and LAs and the such and how they were meant to keep people from playing monstrous pcs. I think, since I like to play monstrous pcs, I will have to figure out a way to remove that penalty that isn't abusive to the rules in the future. Since I will probably be the DM, as well, it shouldn't be too difficult to get away with this ;) Again, thanks all! As long as you're playing a goblinoid, why not try a hobgoblin? They're only LA +1. Oh, and it's no stretch to say that a human has some goblinoid blood in him. Judging by all the templates published, that sort of thing seems to happen all the time. Check the setting with your DM first, this thing is quite likely to happen in Eberron, but very unlikely in most other settings I know of.
enygmatic_me 03-25-07, 05:29 PM	As long as you're playing a goblinoid, why not try a hobgoblin? They're only LA +1. Oh, and it's no stretch to say that a human has some goblinoid blood in him. Judging by all the templates published, that sort of thing seems to happen all the time. Check the setting with your DM first, this thing is quite likely to happen in Eberron, but very unlikely in most other settings I know of. Considering there is a Minotaur bloodline out there I don't think a Bugbear Bloodline is out of the question. Using said Minotaur Bloodline as comparrison it shouldn't be hard to create one.
Thomar_of_Uointer 03-25-07, 06:45 PM	Considering there is a Minotaur bloodline out there I don't think a Bugbear Bloodline is out of the question. Using said Minotaur Bloodline as comparrison it shouldn't be hard to create one. Well, there's a baseline for that sort of thing. The minotaur is historically descended from human royalty.
enygmatic_me 03-25-07, 10:25 PM	Well, there's a baseline for that sort of thing. The minotaur is historically descended from human royalty. True, but the myth of the Minotaur also involves King Minos angering Poseiden who, in turn inflicted Minos' wife; Pasiphae, to become obsessed with a White Bull that Poseiden had sent to Minos. Through some rather interesting methods Pasiphae had a dalliance with the White Bull and later gives birth to the Minotaur. All of that has nothing to do with D&D though and I was just pointing out that the Minotaur Bloodline could be used as a source of comparison to design a Bugbear Bloodline.
Alac Luin 03-26-07, 08:16 PM	As long as you're playing a goblinoid, why not try a hobgoblin? They're only LA +1. I'd suggest the hobgoblin over bugbear also. The +1 LA still takes a toll on the charicter, but the hobgoblin does not have the 3 humanoid hit die. This may be the most important part, talk to the DM of the game you are joining. It is up to the DM on what will be allowed, what fit's their world. If you have already spoken to the DM, ignore this :)
Arcane Guyver 03-26-07, 11:35 PM	If you want to play a bugbear from level 1, here's the progression I whipped up. I don't have the Savage Species book, which I think also has the bugbear statted out this way. I don't know how to do tables, so I apologize in advance. Bugbear • Type (Subtype): Humanoid (goblin). • Ability Adjustments: +2 Dex, -2 Cha. • Darkvision: You have darkvision out to 60 feet. • Scent: You have the scent ability. • Goblin Skulk: +4 racial bonus on Move Silently checks. • Automatic Language: Common and Goblin. • Bonus Languages: ??? (I'm really unsure what languages should go here). • Favored Class: Rogue & racial Humanoid levels. Humanoid Racial Levels HD: d8 Skills (2/level): Climb, Hide, Listen, Move Silently, Search, and Spot. Weapon Proficiency: Simple. Armor Proficiency: Light, Shields. Base Attack Bonus: Average (as Bard). Saving Throws: Good Reflex save, poor Fortitude and Will saves. Bugbear Progression 1st Level: You get the first level of Humanoid. 2nd Level: +2 Con, +1 natural armor. 3rd Level: Second level of Humanoid, +2 Str, +1 natural armor. 4th Level: Third level of Humanoid, +2 Str, +1 natural armor.
Ace_of_time 03-27-07, 12:57 AM	What rule set are you useing?(3.0 or3.5) Are you starting at 1st level or what?