I need a good template for a bard! [Archive] - Wizards Community

I need a good template for a bard! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Kuroimaken
04-28-08, 01:02 AM Here's the thing. My character is currently a CN human bard. Our party is all likely to undergo some radical template transformations in the future (it was recently ICly discovered our evil paladin is a werewolf), and I'm looking for any good templates to add to him. Preferably, no undead or fey, with a Charisma increase and relatively low LA (+3 TOPS, we're using a variant LA buyoff rule). I'd also prefer to avoid anything that necessarily makes him evil or good.

Is there such a thing as a "complete template index" anywhere?
HernetheHunter
04-28-08, 01:38 AM Draconic Template, Races of the dragon.
Axisell
04-28-08, 03:23 AM well, it's not a template, but Aasimars are awsome as bards
Orchomenos
04-28-08, 09:56 AM Half-Fey. +2 LA, Wings, +4 Charisma, Charm Person at will.

EDIT: D'oh. Just saw you didn't want anything related to fey. Take a look at the Phrenic Template from Expanded Psionic (also in SRD).
Is there such a thing as a "complete template index" anywhere?
Take a look at Crystal Keep. (see the link in my sig.)
ciaran
04-28-08, 06:20 PM Half-Celestial in MM.
Zodiaq7
04-28-08, 07:36 PM Fire Souled on Crystal Keep.
Kuroimaken
04-29-08, 12:01 AM Half-Fey. +2 LA, Wings, +4 Charisma, Charm Person at will.

EDIT: D'oh. Just saw you didn't want anything related to fey. Take a look at the Phrenic Template from Expanded Psionic (also in SRD).
Quote:
Is there such a thing as a "complete template index" anywhere?
Take a look at Crystal Keep. (see the link in my sig.) Hmmm. To be fair, I might even -accept- fey... just nothing "fey-like". Half-fey would be okay if they weren't butterfly wings.

Half-Celestial in MM.I thought Half-Celestials were supposed to be good?

Fire Souled on Crystal Keep. Looking into it.

I actually kinda liked the Half-Elementals, they seem pretty cool (and I think Half-Fire Elemental gives bonuses to Charisma), but apparently, the Manual of the Planes doesn't list their LA.
HernetheHunter
04-29-08, 01:46 AM That is found in the 3.5 update.
Orchomenos
04-29-08, 10:26 AM Hmmm. To be fair, I might even -accept- fey... just nothing "fey-like". Half-fey would be okay if they weren't butterfly wings.

Make these moth wings. Nothing prevents you to be of dark, unseelie fey blood...
qwerty1
04-29-08, 10:36 AM Consider taking Half-Dragon or Multi-class into Dragon Disciple.

Half-Dragon (MM)
Dragon Disciple (DMG) -- Longer way of gaining Half-Dragon Template.
Kuroimaken
04-29-08, 12:35 PM Make these moth wings. Nothing prevents you to be of dark, unseelie fey blood... They'd still be -insect- wings...

Consider taking Half-Dragon or Multi-class into Dragon Disciple.

Half-Dragon (MM)
Dragon Disciple (DMG) -- Longer way of gaining Half-Dragon Template.
Half-Dragon gives a pretty big boost to STR that I don't really need. My stats priorities are as follows:

STR: Don't care
DEX: The more the merrier (preferably no drops)
CON: Increase is good, but keeping it as is is okay.
INT: Always good to raise -- goes to my Bardic Knowledge checks, not to mention more skill points
WIS: Preferrably no drops, keeping it as is is fine.
CHA: Boost it, please.
elondir
04-29-08, 03:08 PM Maybe the fey parent was one of the weird woodsy ugly ones. You don't have to have wings, you know.

I support draconic, half-fey, phrenic, half-celestial, or half-elemental (3.0 Manual of the Planes).
ciaran
04-29-08, 06:00 PM I thought Half-Celestials were supposed to be good?

Just like Drow are supposed to be evil? ;)
Orchomenos
04-30-08, 01:24 PM Drows are Usually Neutral Evil, which lets plenny of room for about 5-10% of them being True Neutral and a few ones being good, and an unlucky one here and there to be a Chaotic Good Ranger with two scimitars. ;)

OTOH, half-celestials are outsiders, representative of spiritual concepts. How could the concept of goodness be evil? By RAW, they are Always Good (any). But this still lets some room for one individual in one million to fail his ideal and become neutral, or even evil! :schemes:
Kuroimaken
05-02-08, 02:56 AM Surprisingly enough, I was thinking of picking up the Vivacious template. +2 to Charisma, +2 to Constitution, Fast Healing, Incorporealness, Positive Energy Aura... what's not to love? Although, I'm not sure how many problems this might actually give me.

Half-Vampire, for example, sounds good, but how would I go about -becoming- one? (This is the one exception I'd make to the whole "no undead/fey" thing I stipulated.)

I seem to recall a template of a creature that could manipulate shadows, maybe in one of the Monster Manuals... Can't recall its name though. Would make for a killer addition, since I intend to make the guy a Shadowcraft Mage later in his career.

I support draconic, half-fey, phrenic, half-celestial, or half-elemental (3.0 Manual of the Planes).

I actually liked the Half-Elementals as well, but I'm not sure how cool my DM is with 3.0 material.
HernetheHunter
05-02-08, 12:34 PM The Half-Elemental template was updated in the free 3.5 Update available on the site and with a monster class in issue 326 of Dragon.

Now that I know you are going for the shadowcraft mage there is the Dark template (LA +1) in Tome of Magic, but it doesn't add to any abilities. The Shadow Creature Template (LA +2) in Lords of Madness, is the greater form of Dark creature with still no Stat boosts. The Shadow Walker template (LA +1) from FR - Unapproachable East, Not the stat boost you are looking for, and the Shade Template (LA +5) from the FRCS which has a 3.5 update located on the site and appears in Dragon 322 with a LA of +4 and +2 Cha.

I had a Homebrew Half-Shadow Elemental laying around, but can't find it right now.
Kuroimaken
05-03-08, 04:18 PM The Half-Elemental template was updated in the free 3.5 Update available on the site and with a monster class in issue 326 of Dragon.

Now that I know you are going for the shadowcraft mage there is the Dark template (LA +1) in Tome of Magic, but it doesn't add to any abilities. The Shadow Creature Template (LA +2) in Lords of Madness, is the greater form of Dark creature with still no Stat boosts. The Shadow Walker template (LA +1) from FR - Unapproachable East, Not the stat boost you are looking for, and the Shade Template (LA +5) from the FRCS which has a 3.5 update located on the site and appears in Dragon 322 with a LA of +4 and +2 Cha.

I had a Homebrew Half-Shadow Elemental laying around, but can't find it right now.Good to know.

What about overall creepy, non-undead templates? With Shadowcraft Mage fun going on, I could definitely go for the scary guy approach.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Kuroimaken 04-28-08, 01:02 AM	Here's the thing. My character is currently a CN human bard. Our party is all likely to undergo some radical template transformations in the future (it was recently ICly discovered our evil paladin is a werewolf), and I'm looking for any good templates to add to him. Preferably, no undead or fey, with a Charisma increase and relatively low LA (+3 TOPS, we're using a variant LA buyoff rule). I'd also prefer to avoid anything that necessarily makes him evil or good. Is there such a thing as a "complete template index" anywhere?
HernetheHunter 04-28-08, 01:38 AM	Draconic Template, Races of the dragon.
Axisell 04-28-08, 03:23 AM	well, it's not a template, but Aasimars are awsome as bards
Orchomenos 04-28-08, 09:56 AM	Half-Fey. +2 LA, Wings, +4 Charisma, Charm Person at will. EDIT: D'oh. Just saw you didn't want anything related to fey. Take a look at the Phrenic Template from Expanded Psionic (also in SRD). Is there such a thing as a "complete template index" anywhere? Take a look at Crystal Keep. (see the link in my sig.)
ciaran 04-28-08, 06:20 PM	Half-Celestial in MM.
Zodiaq7 04-28-08, 07:36 PM	Fire Souled on Crystal Keep.
Kuroimaken 04-29-08, 12:01 AM	Half-Fey. +2 LA, Wings, +4 Charisma, Charm Person at will. EDIT: D'oh. Just saw you didn't want anything related to fey. Take a look at the Phrenic Template from Expanded Psionic (also in SRD). Quote: Is there such a thing as a "complete template index" anywhere? Take a look at Crystal Keep. (see the link in my sig.) Hmmm. To be fair, I might even -accept- fey... just nothing "fey-like". Half-fey would be okay if they weren't butterfly wings. Half-Celestial in MM.I thought Half-Celestials were supposed to be good? Fire Souled on Crystal Keep. Looking into it. I actually kinda liked the Half-Elementals, they seem pretty cool (and I think Half-Fire Elemental gives bonuses to Charisma), but apparently, the Manual of the Planes doesn't list their LA.
HernetheHunter 04-29-08, 01:46 AM	That is found in the 3.5 update.
Orchomenos 04-29-08, 10:26 AM	Hmmm. To be fair, I might even -accept- fey... just nothing "fey-like". Half-fey would be okay if they weren't butterfly wings. Make these moth wings. Nothing prevents you to be of dark, unseelie fey blood...
qwerty1 04-29-08, 10:36 AM	Consider taking Half-Dragon or Multi-class into Dragon Disciple. Half-Dragon (MM) Dragon Disciple (DMG) -- Longer way of gaining Half-Dragon Template.
Kuroimaken 04-29-08, 12:35 PM	Make these moth wings. Nothing prevents you to be of dark, unseelie fey blood... They'd still be -insect- wings... Consider taking Half-Dragon or Multi-class into Dragon Disciple. Half-Dragon (MM) Dragon Disciple (DMG) -- Longer way of gaining Half-Dragon Template. Half-Dragon gives a pretty big boost to STR that I don't really need. My stats priorities are as follows: STR: Don't care DEX: The more the merrier (preferably no drops) CON: Increase is good, but keeping it as is is okay. INT: Always good to raise -- goes to my Bardic Knowledge checks, not to mention more skill points WIS: Preferrably no drops, keeping it as is is fine. CHA: Boost it, please.
elondir 04-29-08, 03:08 PM	Maybe the fey parent was one of the weird woodsy ugly ones. You don't have to have wings, you know. I support draconic, half-fey, phrenic, half-celestial, or half-elemental (3.0 Manual of the Planes).
ciaran 04-29-08, 06:00 PM	I thought Half-Celestials were supposed to be good? Just like Drow are supposed to be evil? ;)
Orchomenos 04-30-08, 01:24 PM	Drows are Usually Neutral Evil, which lets plenny of room for about 5-10% of them being True Neutral and a few ones being good, and an unlucky one here and there to be a Chaotic Good Ranger with two scimitars. ;) OTOH, half-celestials are outsiders, representative of spiritual concepts. How could the concept of goodness be evil? By RAW, they are Always Good (any). But this still lets some room for one individual in one million to fail his ideal and become neutral, or even evil! :schemes:
Kuroimaken 05-02-08, 02:56 AM	Surprisingly enough, I was thinking of picking up the Vivacious template. +2 to Charisma, +2 to Constitution, Fast Healing, Incorporealness, Positive Energy Aura... what's not to love? Although, I'm not sure how many problems this might actually give me. Half-Vampire, for example, sounds good, but how would I go about -becoming- one? (This is the one exception I'd make to the whole "no undead/fey" thing I stipulated.) I seem to recall a template of a creature that could manipulate shadows, maybe in one of the Monster Manuals... Can't recall its name though. Would make for a killer addition, since I intend to make the guy a Shadowcraft Mage later in his career. I support draconic, half-fey, phrenic, half-celestial, or half-elemental (3.0 Manual of the Planes). I actually liked the Half-Elementals as well, but I'm not sure how cool my DM is with 3.0 material.
HernetheHunter 05-02-08, 12:34 PM	The Half-Elemental template was updated in the free 3.5 Update available on the site and with a monster class in issue 326 of Dragon. Now that I know you are going for the shadowcraft mage there is the Dark template (LA +1) in Tome of Magic, but it doesn't add to any abilities. The Shadow Creature Template (LA +2) in Lords of Madness, is the greater form of Dark creature with still no Stat boosts. The Shadow Walker template (LA +1) from FR - Unapproachable East, Not the stat boost you are looking for, and the Shade Template (LA +5) from the FRCS which has a 3.5 update located on the site and appears in Dragon 322 with a LA of +4 and +2 Cha. I had a Homebrew Half-Shadow Elemental laying around, but can't find it right now.
Kuroimaken 05-03-08, 04:18 PM	The Half-Elemental template was updated in the free 3.5 Update available on the site and with a monster class in issue 326 of Dragon. Now that I know you are going for the shadowcraft mage there is the Dark template (LA +1) in Tome of Magic, but it doesn't add to any abilities. The Shadow Creature Template (LA +2) in Lords of Madness, is the greater form of Dark creature with still no Stat boosts. The Shadow Walker template (LA +1) from FR - Unapproachable East, Not the stat boost you are looking for, and the Shade Template (LA +5) from the FRCS which has a 3.5 update located on the site and appears in Dragon 322 with a LA of +4 and +2 Cha. I had a Homebrew Half-Shadow Elemental laying around, but can't find it right now.Good to know. What about overall creepy, non-undead templates? With Shadowcraft Mage fun going on, I could definitely go for the scary guy approach.