Post/Author/DateTime	Post
GuyfromDK 03-02-08, 07:45 AM	For the next campaign my group are going to play i want to play a dwarf whose tribe of dwarves always have lived in a jungle. I dont want to play those lame small critters from faerun, so my GM agreed that we will make a new, based on the normal dwarf from dnd. My idea of the jungle dwarves is that live as hunters and gathers, and that they jump alot! (He is going to be warblade, specialised in the tiger claw discipline) They dont even know what iron or steel is in that jungle so they fashion weapons from stone, and the wealthiest from volcanic glass, obsidian. They have always lived above ground, primarily in the trees, so no use of darkvision. Any ideas on how substitute stonecunning, stability, poison and magic bonus saving throws, giant fighting bonus to something more fitting for a dwarf that lives in a jungle?
Jadeite2517 03-02-08, 08:26 AM	From Unearthed Arcana: Racial Traits Jungle dwarves have all dwarf racial traits, with additions and exceptions as noted below. * Low-Light Vision: A jungle dwarf can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. She retains the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions. * No darkvision. * +2 bonus on Heal, Knowledge (nature), and Survival checks: Jungle dwarves know a great deal about what lives in the jungle, and are adept at finding it (or avoiding it, as the case may be). * +2 bonus on Spot checks: Jungle dwarves have keen eyesight. * No stonecunning: Jungle dwarves live aboveground. * No racial bonus on Craft checks related to stone or metal items. * Favored Class: Ranger. A multiclass jungle dwarfs ranger class does not count when determining whether she takes an XP penalty for multiclassing. Jungle dwarves need both outdoor skills and combat proficiency to survive. This trait replaces the normal dwarfs favored class. You should note that their 20 ft. base speed gets Dwarves a -6 penalty on Jump Checks, making them sub par Tiger Claw Fighters.
GuyfromDK 03-02-08, 04:06 PM	Any ideas on how substitute stonecunning, stability, poison and magic bonus saving throws, giant fighting bonus to something more fitting for a dwarf that lives in a jungle? Yeah i know it but i dont think it got the right kind of flavor, ever heard about jungle giants ? :D
jradd777 03-02-08, 05:14 PM	I think both of the options that are already out there are great choices... but if you really want something different, I will work on an idea and post soon because I love solving these types of problems.
Fireclave 03-02-08, 05:23 PM	Yeah i know it but i dont think it got the right kind of flavor, ever heard about jungle giants ? :D Yes actually. Giants inhabit the jungles of Xen'drik in the Eberron setting.
StruckingFuggle 03-02-08, 06:41 PM	Granted, that's Eberron, where part of the schtick seems to be doing things atypically.
Fireclave 03-02-08, 07:31 PM	No more atypical than jungle dwarves, me thinks
calronmoonflower 03-02-08, 10:14 PM	I remember the wild dwarf lives in the jungle. I think that it is in Races of Faerun.
GuyfromDK 03-03-08, 09:29 AM	Yes actually. Giants inhabit the jungles of Xen'drik in the Eberron setting. Okay point taken, but i dont really know eberron. I remember the wild dwarf lives in the jungle. I think that it is in Races of Faerun. Yeah but it is small, and i dont really like the idea playing a little bearded monkey :D I look forward to see what you have in mind, jrad77 I have thought about replacing stonecunning with that stuff the goliath haves that enables him to make standing jumps as running jumps, and perhaps change the bonus on giant fighting to magical beast ?
jradd777 03-03-08, 03:30 PM	I look forward to see what you have in mind, jrad77 I have thought about replacing stonecunning with that stuff the goliath haves that enables him to make standing jumps as running jumps, and perhaps change the bonus on giant fighting to magical beast ? Ah, the normal bonus is to fighting orcs/goblinoids only, but dodge bonus against giants, just to flesh that out completely (so their bonuses are never even synergistic with each other normally [which is the only reason that dwarves aren't literally broken races, they get a ton of things but everything they have is mostly circumstantial]). In my opinion, dwarves who are this separated from their closest kin would probably not train against any specific enemy and therefore would receive no bonus to attacks against anything. But don't let that discourage you, I am confident I can come up with something that you'll like, that will be pretty different from the two choices you've already said you don't like and significantly different from the normal dwarf as to give it a definite jungle feel. Anyway, yeah, I think I have a decent idea of which direction you want to go with it... I'm throwing around some ideas of names but each one seems to help imply one or another direction or concept on which I could work. What do you think of some of these? Which ones seem to fit most the sort of "Jungle" you mean to put into this dwarf? Aboriginal/Indigenous Dwarf Untamed Dwarf Or I even thought about calling them Pygmy Giants (maybe borrowing some giant races' ideas for abilities) Or simply an "Alternative" Jungle Dwarf
GuyfromDK 03-04-08, 04:53 PM	Aboriginal/Indigenous Dwarf Or simply an "Alternative" Jungle Dwarf I think these names really catch the kind of feeling i have i mind. A dwarf from a society with a tribal culture that lives from hunting, and by bringing down large prey by jumping down from trees (or other high stuff) and rip everything apart with claws or obsidian weapons. They have a kind of test they have to go through to become a man. And that is to bring down a beast that the tribes shaman predict. Only with claws. That is also why my man left the jungle and became an adventurer. To find his beast and slay to become a man. It may sound silly, but i kind of imagine him to a little like wolwerine from x-men :D. ( with the claws, and the fast healing) But that is only for his looks not anything else.
jradd777 03-05-08, 04:02 PM	[...]and rip everything apart with claws or obsidian weapons. They have a kind of test they have to go through to become a man. And that is to bring down a beast that the tribes shaman predict. Only with claws. [...] a little like wolwerine from x-men :D. ( with the claws, and the fast healing) But that is only for his looks not anything else. Um... so... should I include some sort of natural claw attack? Or are you getting that some other way with your character? Ditto on the fast healing? (However, even if you want FH somehow... fast healing for a race is crazy... it'd call for at least an LA +1, probably...) Possibly I could forgo the weapon familiarities (which I planned to do anyway) and add the natural claw attack... but then I don't know that I'd give these guys too much else... I think that the poison resistance might need to stay (maybe even increase by 1 or 2)... since it's probably the one thing that really makes sense for a dwarf in the jungle to keep, maybe? I'm almost done with a draft, just want to get some more answers before I finalize my first draft. Aboriginal Dwarf Racial Traits (First Draft) Abilities: +2 Con, -2 Int, +2 Wis, -2 Cha. Aboriginal dwarves are still hardy like their distant cousins and their closer ties to nature make them more mystical and spiritual, sometimes relying purely on intuiton. Their separation from civilization has made them less educated overall and their interactions with others are not refined. Size: Medium Movement: 30’ (However, aboriginal dwarves' speed is reduced as normal, when wearing medium or heavy armor or carrying a medium or heavy load) Weapons: Aboriginal dwarves do not gain weapon familiarities with any of the normal dwarven racial weapons as their culture has been separated from their kin for so many generations. Vision: Low-light vision Saves: +3 racial bonus against poisons, living among venomous creatures has increased these dwarves' resistance to deadly toxins. Skills: +2 racial bonus on Craft checks that are related to stone or wood. Aboriginal dwarves make almost everything out of stone or wood, being the most accessible resources in the jungle. Jungle Movement: Because aboriginal dwarves have lived in and among trees for hundreds of years, they have grown a prowess for climbing and leaping, almost as well as the simple jungle primates. Aboriginal dwarves can make standing long jumps and high jumps as if they were running long jumps and high jumps. An aboriginal dwarf can engage in accelerated climbing (climbing half his speed as a move action) without taking the -5 penalty on the Climb check. Automatic Language: Dwarven (Jungle dialect): Bonus Languages: Common, Sylvan, Terran... Favored Class: Ranger/Druid? (Both?) As-is... I'd say this must almost be nail on the head and probably not too good to be LA 0. I'd be willing to write up the fluff/flavor text, too, given another week or so, with stuff you want to give me about history, etc, or my own ideas that have culminated in this mini-project... I think I'm going to keep this particular draft of the concept for my local group either way, if you don't like it.
GuyfromDK 03-06-08, 09:02 AM	Um... so... should I include some sort of natural claw attack? Or are you getting that some other way with your character? Ditto on the fast healing? (However, even if you want FH somehow... fast healing for a race is crazy... it'd call for at least an LA +1, probably...) No, i dont think claws and fast healing should be a part of the race, but i think you have done a very nice job with the dwarf, altering and stuff. It makes sense to me why have put in the -2 INT,+2 WIS. But would it break the race to give it back its weapon familarities? (just with something that is as good as dwarfen urgrosh, and dwarven waraxe) I thought about some kind of throwing spear that fire with a....(dont know what they are called, but they use them in the movie apocalypto) and maybe some obsidian kukris. And perhaps they could have fighting bonus against forest trolls from MM III, and dogde bonus against magical beast? That would make the aboriginal dwarf look like this: =jradd777;15265481Aboriginal Dwarf Racial Traits (Second Draft) Abilities: +2 Con, -2 Int, +2 Wis, -2 Cha. Aboriginal dwarves are still hardy like their distant cousins and their closer ties to nature make them more mystical and spiritual, sometimes relying purely on intuiton. Their separation from civilization has made them less educated overall and their interactions with others are not refined. Size: Medium Movement: 30’ (However, aboriginal dwarves' speed is reduced as normal, when wearing medium or heavy armor or carrying a medium or heavy load) +1 to hit against forest trolls and their kin. +4 dogde bonus to AC against monsters that have the magical beast type. Weapons: Aboriginal dwarves gain exotic weapon familarities with dwarven kukris (kukris that damage 1d6) and a spear with range increment 50 ft. that you cant use in melee, but only throw use another piece of wood fitting aroud it as an extended handle. Vision: Low-light vision Saves: +3 racial bonus against poisons, living among venomous creatures has increased these dwarves' resistance to deadly toxins. Skills: +2 racial bonus on Craft checks that are related to stone or wood. Aboriginal dwarves make almost everything out of stone or wood, being the most accessible resources in the jungle. Jungle Movement: Because aboriginal dwarves have lived in among trees for hundreds of years, they have grown a prowess for climbing and leaping, almost as well as the simple jungle primates. Aboriginal dwarves can make standing long jumps and high jumps as if they were running long jumps and high jumps. An aboriginal dwarf can engage in accelerated climbing (climbing half his speed as a move action) without taking the -5 penalty on the Climb check. Automatic Language: Dwarven (Jungle dialect): Bonus Languages: Common, Sylvan, Terran... Favored Class: Ranger/Druid? (Both?)
jradd777 03-06-08, 01:10 PM	But would it break the race to give it back its weapon familarities? (just with something that is as good as dwarfen urgrosh, and dwarven waraxe) I thought about some kind of throwing spear that fire with a....(dont know what they are called, but they use them in the movie apocalypto) and maybe some obsidian kukris. I LOVE the idea of giving them use of the atlatl! That's amazing! Good idea. It's found in Sandstorm, it's actually the exact same weapon as from Apocalypto (I did research over that culture, it's a real weapon and actually, I think Wizards did a great job creating it for the D&D world). As far as another weapon... hmm, I suppose we can do obsidian kukris or something similar... I think there was another weapon that the Aztecs or Mayans used that would be really good (it was actually made out of obsidian, too)... I know for sure that they used to make clubs and shove pieces of obsidian in them... *shivers* (...so brutal...)... I'll think on that one... And perhaps they could have fighting bonus against forest trolls from MM III, and dogde bonus against magical beast? Personally, I think that dwarves' abilities are so situation specific, if a dwarf loses them... they haven't lost much. By the same token, as long as we change it in a way that is only as good as circumstantial and no better, there's no reason not to give your Aboriginal dwarf something similar. I do agree with the specific forest troll bonus, that's equivalent or lower to the original... but now magical beasts might be a much broader and more useful category than giants... I'd have to do a little research... then again, since the attack bonus has been restricted more than it was, maybe it wouldn't be over the line to give them that wider dodge bonus range (if it indeed is wider). Plus... being that we've made them a bit faster than their distant cousins, maybe they just simply are a bit better at dodging things and less good at striking true on so many things? What do you think? All-in-all, I think I could agree that it's more or less fair/balanced.
jradd777 03-07-08, 12:50 AM	Aboriginal Dwarf Racial Traits (Second Draft) Abilities: +2 Con, -2 Int, +2 Wis, -2 Cha. Aboriginal dwarves are still hardy like their distant cousins and their closer ties to nature make them more mystical and spiritual, sometimes relying purely on intuiton. Their separation from civilization has made them less educated overall and their interactions with others are not refined. Size: Medium Movement: 30’ (However, aboriginal dwarves' speed is reduced as normal, when wearing medium or heavy armor or carrying a medium or heavy load) Weapons: Aboriginal dwarves do not gain weapon familiarities with any of the normal dwarven racial weapons as their culture has been separated from their kin for so many generations. However, masters of their environment, Aboriginal dwarves have learned to make do with what they do have and treat the atlatl (Sandstorm, pg. 95) and iuak (Frostburn, pg. 77) as martial weapons. Vision: Low-light vision +1 on attack rolls made against forest trolls and their kin. +4 dodge bonus to armor class against magical beasts at least one size category larger than themselves. Saves: +3 racial bonus against poisons, living among venomous creatures has increased these dwarves' resistance to deadly toxins. Skills: +2 racial bonus on Craft checks that are related to stone or wood. Aboriginal dwarves make almost everything out of stone or wood, being the most accessible resources in the jungle. Jungle Movement: Because aboriginal dwarves have lived in and among trees for hundreds of years, they have grown a prowess for climbing and leaping, almost as well as the simple jungle primates. Aboriginal dwarves can make standing long jumps and high jumps as if they were running long jumps and high jumps. An aboriginal dwarf can engage in accelerated climbing (climbing half his speed as a move action) without taking the -5 penalty on the Climb check. Automatic Language: Dwarven (Jungle dialect): Bonus Languages: Common, Sylvan, Terran... Favored Class: Ranger/Druid
thefishcometh 03-07-08, 02:49 AM	I suppose we can do obsidian kukris or something similar... I think there was another weapon that the Aztecs or Mayans used that would be really good (it was actually made out of obsidian, too)... I know for sure that they used to make clubs and shove pieces of obsidian in them... *shivers* (...so brutal...)... I know its a bit off-topic, but I wanted to throw an odd historical tidbit in here; that obsidian club-sword you're talking about is called a macahuitl, and it had the capability to cut off the head of a horse. Obsidian may be stone, but it can be sharpened to a ridiculous level. Oh, and I love giving DnD real-world cultural flavor. Aztec dwarfs could be very cool. If you want to keep with an Aztec theme, don't lose stonecutting; a culture with no access to metal tools would value abilities with stone very highly. And have you seen Aztec temples? I have no idea how they made those in real life without metal or arches or the wheel or even domesticated animals, but in DnD it could be easily explained with stonecutting.
jradd777 03-07-08, 03:08 AM	I know its a bit off-topic, but I wanted to throw an odd historical tidbit in here; that obsidian club-sword you're talking about is called a macahuitl, and it had the capability to cut off the head of a horse. Obsidian may be stone, but it can be sharpened to a ridiculous level. Ahh, that name does sound familiar. Although, the more I think about it, I'm sure there were several weapons that they made that incorporated obsidian. Yeah, it's stone, all-in-all, as stone is a "catch all" kind of term, more specifically, though, obsidian is literally volcanic glass so I'm sure that you're right about how sharp it can become. However, the other term "stonecunning." I personally, didn't see much reason to get rid of it, but to accommodate for the mixture of abilities that the OP would like to have at his disposal, I just want to be on the safe side of the LA 0. I may add it back to my own version and cut the offensive and defensive bonuses against the specific enemies, or the weapon proficiencies. Plus, stonecunning may be too much of an intellectual task for this particular jungle type race. It's all a matter of how it's flavored in the end.
GuyfromDK 03-08-08, 05:56 AM	Nice job, jradd77. I agree that giving them stonecunning back would fit better if they were like aztecs. But you should think more of the aboroginal dwarf as the tribe of aztecz that live in the jungle in apocalypto. They dont rely on the ability to work stone, but their citydwelling kin does.
jradd777 03-08-08, 02:39 PM	Nice job, jradd77. I agree that giving them stonecunning back would fit better if they were like aztecs. But you should think more of the aboroginal dwarf as the tribe of aztecz that live in the jungle in apocalypto. They dont rely on the ability to work stone, but their citydwelling kin does. Right, plus, I was thinking the other day, stonecunning is what gives them the ability to intuit how far underground they are... so it definitely doesn't fit, they would have had to been underground or mountain dwelling to develop that.
MrWildman 03-08-08, 03:17 PM	I wrote out some ideas, but everyone else's seem so much more complete. :( One thing, however. I was thinking that the bonus against poisons might look something like this: Saves: Aboriginal dwarves have developed resistances to the deadly poisons found in their jungle home. They have a +2 bonus against the initial damage of organic toxins, and an additional +1 against their secondary effects. I don't think this is a better idea in any way. . . I just wanted to share. Peace.
jradd777 03-08-08, 05:44 PM	I wrote out some ideas, but everyone else's seem so much more complete. :( One thing, however. I was thinking that the bonus against poisons might look something like this: Saves: Aboriginal dwarves have developed resistances to the deadly poisons found in their jungle home. They have a +2 bonus against the initial damage of organic toxins, and an additional +1 against their secondary effects. I don't think this is a better idea in any way. . . I just wanted to share. Peace. Sorry, I tend to be fairly thorough because I have word document templates for class and race design that make it easy not to forget anything, as long as I fill in all the blanks, ha ha. I like the concept behind your idea, though. I'd like it a different way however; maybe they get the standard dwarf +2 on the first but a +4 on the second since their body resists the poison even more now that they encountered the effects once... there's many ways to go with it, great suggestion. It's a neat idea to throw around.