Incarnum Half-Dragon? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Incarnum Half-Dragon? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
dralin
03-25-07, 09:43 PM What abilites would a Incarnum Half-dragon get?
Thomar_of_Uointer
03-25-07, 10:13 PM Good question.

Okay, I've got 30' cone breath weapon that deals 6d8 damage to creatures (Fortitude half, no particular type, not subject to DR or energy resistance, it just sucks soulstuff out of you), and creatures that fail a Reflex saving throw lose 1 point of essentia for one hour. In place of immunity it gets Shape Soulmeld (only soulmelds that occupy Crown, Brow, or Throat) and Bonus Essentia as bonus feats, even if it doesn't meet the prerequisites.

The rationale here is that the incarnum dragon's breath weapon is pretty unique (it's a plus in this case), and losing 1 point of essentia is no big deal. Losing the immunity is very harsh, and the replacement bonus feats do not fully cover it (as no soulmeld grants anything as powerful defensively as full energy immunity), making up for the typeless breath weapon and essentia damage.
NoldorForce
03-25-07, 10:26 PM Breath Weapon: Ability damage, perhaps? (Likely Wisdom damage at that.)
Let's go with 1d8 Wis damage for now.

Design Note: Not all half-dragons get hit point damage as part of their breath weapons. Ability damage seemed more appropriate here for blasting the soulstuff out of people.

Immunity: Ability damage, likely.

Design Note: Half-shadow dragons have a breath weapon that gives out one negative level, and thus half-shadow dragons have an immunity to energy drain. So I'd concocted something similar here.

Alignment: LG, CG, LE, or CE.

Design note: In keeping with the radical alignments of the base dragon.

And while I'm at it...might as well make stuff up regarding Draconic Heritage.

Class Skill: Knowledge (any one).

Design Note: This is in keeping with the flavor of incarnum gaining insight from all souls in existence across space and time. Incarnum dragons themselves get an insight bonus to all Knowledge checks for precisely this reason.

Descriptor: Any one alignment. Or perhaps all of them. (Draconic Heritage gives you a bonus on saves against spells of a certain descriptor equal to the number of Draconic feats you have.)

Design Note: Much of incarnum is flavored as very polarized with respect to alignments. Take the incarnate and soulborn classes as examples of this.

Spells Granted (from Draconic Legacy): Dispel Magic, Enervation, Soul Boon

Design Note: This was a bunch of guessing and twisting; many of those granted in Races of the Dragon seem to have come about by the same method.
dralin
03-28-07, 03:44 AM Well hows this setup sound for an idea?

Breath Weapon - 6D8 Untyped Damage, Ref for Half

Gain Bonus Essentia Feat, even if you don't meet the prerequisites

Gain the ability to Invest Essentia to gain a bonus on Knowledge skills, Bonus equal to Essentia invested (or twice the amount invested)

Plus everything else a Half-Dragon gets Stats, Nat AC, Natural Weapons.

I was also think about giving up Breath Weapon in exchange for being able to learn one Soulmeld from the Soulborns meld list, that cant be changed after chosen.
dralin
03-30-07, 09:11 AM anybody??????
Thomar_of_Uointer
03-30-07, 11:32 AM Well hows this setup sound for an idea?

Breath Weapon - 6D8 Untyped Damage, Ref for Half

Gain Bonus Essentia Feat, even if you don't meet the prerequisites

Gain the ability to Invest Essentia to gain a bonus on Knowledge skills, Bonus equal to Essentia invested (or twice the amount invested)

Plus everything else a Half-Dragon gets Stats, Nat AC, Natural Weapons.

I was also think about giving up Breath Weapon in exchange for being able to learn one Soulmeld from the Soulborns meld list, that cant be changed after chosen.

Yeah, that looks fine.
dralin
04-01-07, 01:12 PM Well after some looking and some thinking this is what i came up with,
with some help from NoldorForce and Thomar_of_Uointer.

Half-Incarnum Dragon

Type changes to Dragon

Gains

+8 STR
+2 Con
+2 Int
+2 Cha

+4 Natural Armor

Claws and Bite attack

A half-Incarnum Dragon gains a +2 insight bonus on all Knowledge skills for every Soulmeld currently shaped

Gain Bonus Essentia Feat, even if you don't meet the prerequisites

Also gains one of the following, once chosen cant be changed

Breath Weapon - 4D8 Untyped Damage, Ref for Half, can invest Essentia into breath weapon to increase damage by 1d6 per point, and increase Save DC equal to invested Essentia, once invested cant be changed for 24 hours

Can learn one Soulmeld from the Soulborns meld list, once chosen cant be changed.
Meldshaper level is equal to half HD, Maximum Essentia Capacity is equal to HD.
If a Meldshaper class or prestige class is taken the Meldshaper level and maximum essentia capacity is equal to class level.

Left out a bit of the basic half-dragon stuff, im trying to get it balanced so my DM wont keep telling me no
dralin
04-04-07, 01:06 AM any other Ideas, Suggestions or Comments?
UndeadPenguin
04-04-07, 01:39 AM The idea of an Incarnum half dragon sounds awesome.
Thomar_of_Uointer
04-04-07, 03:16 AM Well after some looking and some thinking this is what i came up with,
with some help from NoldorForce and Thomar_of_Uointer.

Half-Incarnum Dragon

Type changes to Dragon

Gains

+8 STR
+2 Con
+2 Int
+2 Cha

+4 Natural Armor

Claws and Bite attack

A half-Incarnum Dragon gains a +2 insight bonus on all Knowledge skills for every Soulmeld currently shaped

Gain Bonus Essentia Feat, even if you don't meet the prerequisites

Also gains one of the following, once chosen cant be changed

Breath Weapon - 6D8 Untyped Damage, Ref for Half, can invest Essentia into breath weapon to increase damage by 1d6 per point, and increase Save DC equal to invested Essentia

Can learn one Soulmeld from the Soulborns meld list, once chosen cant be changed.
Meldshaper level and maximum essentia capacity is equal to half HD.
If a Meldshaper class or prestige class is taken the Meldshaper level and maximum essentia capacity is equal to class level.

Left out a bit of the basic half-dragon stuff, im trying to get it balanced so my DM wont keep telling me no

Don't do the half essentia capacity. Capacity is based on your total levels already (and is quite balanced that way), that's just a burden to them.

Otherwise, it looks good. I like the ability to invest in the breath weapon, add a note that essentia invested in that can't be changed for 24 hours. Personally, I would choose limit them to the types of soulmelds that Incarnum Dragons shape (Crown, Brow, or Throat).
dralin
04-04-07, 07:33 AM OK Dragon breath has been edited,

I limited the Essentia Capacity for non-meldshapers cause the Dragons Essentia Capacity is only Half its HD.

The Dragon has access to the Soulborns entire meld list, it is just limited to those 3 binds only
dralin
04-09-07, 09:16 AM any other ideas or opinions?
Thomar_of_Uointer
04-09-07, 11:36 AM I still think you shouldn't limit the essentia capacity. The dragon has it because it has an ungodly number of Hit Dice. Even characters who take the Shape Soulmeld feat don't get that.
dralin
04-10-07, 09:22 AM Ok maximum essentia capacity now matches HD.
retillin
04-10-07, 09:34 AM Maybe and this is just a maybe, lower the dmg from the breathweapon to 4d6. Now stay with me here, it is un-named so no resistance towards it. That is huge. Keep in the fact that you can invest essentia in it, maybe place it at a HD level. Just for expample:

Starting Breath Weapon is 4d6 unnamed.
For every 3 HD the char has he can invest an essentia in it to gain a 1d6 dmg bonus. Again just an Idea for it. Other than that I think it look great.
Thomar_of_Uointer
04-10-07, 10:02 AM Maybe and this is just a maybe, lower the dmg from the breathweapon to 4d6. Now stay with me here, it is un-named so no resistance towards it. That is huge. Keep in the fact that you can invest essentia in it, maybe place it at a HD level. Just for expample:

Starting Breath Weapon is 4d6 unnamed.
For every 3 HD the char has he can invest an essentia in it to gain a 1d6 dmg bonus. Again just an Idea for it. Other than that I think it look great.

Although it's typeless, they don't get energy immunity either.

Normally, the amount of essentia you can invest is roughly equal to 1 + 1 per 5 levels (they have a table). That actually makes it more powerful. Also, investing essentia means you lose that essentia for 24 hours, very crippling for any incarnum build.
dralin
04-12-07, 11:35 AM Well do to insight of a fellow power-gamer, i lowered the Breath Weapon to 4D6 because he reminded me of how powerful a untyped breath weapon is, you can still increase the power of it with essentia but it wont get as strong.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
dralin 03-25-07, 09:43 PM	What abilites would a Incarnum Half-dragon get?
Thomar_of_Uointer 03-25-07, 10:13 PM	Good question. Okay, I've got 30' cone breath weapon that deals 6d8 damage to creatures (Fortitude half, no particular type, not subject to DR or energy resistance, it just sucks soulstuff out of you), and creatures that fail a Reflex saving throw lose 1 point of essentia for one hour. In place of immunity it gets Shape Soulmeld (only soulmelds that occupy Crown, Brow, or Throat) and Bonus Essentia as bonus feats, even if it doesn't meet the prerequisites. The rationale here is that the incarnum dragon's breath weapon is pretty unique (it's a plus in this case), and losing 1 point of essentia is no big deal. Losing the immunity is very harsh, and the replacement bonus feats do not fully cover it (as no soulmeld grants anything as powerful defensively as full energy immunity), making up for the typeless breath weapon and essentia damage.
NoldorForce 03-25-07, 10:26 PM	Breath Weapon: Ability damage, perhaps? (Likely Wisdom damage at that.) Let's go with 1d8 Wis damage for now. Design Note: Not all half-dragons get hit point damage as part of their breath weapons. Ability damage seemed more appropriate here for blasting the soulstuff out of people. Immunity: Ability damage, likely. Design Note: Half-shadow dragons have a breath weapon that gives out one negative level, and thus half-shadow dragons have an immunity to energy drain. So I'd concocted something similar here. Alignment: LG, CG, LE, or CE. Design note: In keeping with the radical alignments of the base dragon. And while I'm at it...might as well make stuff up regarding Draconic Heritage. Class Skill: Knowledge (any one). Design Note: This is in keeping with the flavor of incarnum gaining insight from all souls in existence across space and time. Incarnum dragons themselves get an insight bonus to all Knowledge checks for precisely this reason. Descriptor: Any one alignment. Or perhaps all of them. (Draconic Heritage gives you a bonus on saves against spells of a certain descriptor equal to the number of Draconic feats you have.) Design Note: Much of incarnum is flavored as very polarized with respect to alignments. Take the incarnate and soulborn classes as examples of this. Spells Granted (from Draconic Legacy): Dispel Magic, Enervation, Soul Boon Design Note: This was a bunch of guessing and twisting; many of those granted in Races of the Dragon seem to have come about by the same method.
dralin 03-28-07, 03:44 AM	Well hows this setup sound for an idea? Breath Weapon - 6D8 Untyped Damage, Ref for Half Gain Bonus Essentia Feat, even if you don't meet the prerequisites Gain the ability to Invest Essentia to gain a bonus on Knowledge skills, Bonus equal to Essentia invested (or twice the amount invested) Plus everything else a Half-Dragon gets Stats, Nat AC, Natural Weapons. I was also think about giving up Breath Weapon in exchange for being able to learn one Soulmeld from the Soulborns meld list, that cant be changed after chosen.
dralin 03-30-07, 09:11 AM	anybody??????
Thomar_of_Uointer 03-30-07, 11:32 AM	Well hows this setup sound for an idea? Breath Weapon - 6D8 Untyped Damage, Ref for Half Gain Bonus Essentia Feat, even if you don't meet the prerequisites Gain the ability to Invest Essentia to gain a bonus on Knowledge skills, Bonus equal to Essentia invested (or twice the amount invested) Plus everything else a Half-Dragon gets Stats, Nat AC, Natural Weapons. I was also think about giving up Breath Weapon in exchange for being able to learn one Soulmeld from the Soulborns meld list, that cant be changed after chosen. Yeah, that looks fine.
dralin 04-01-07, 01:12 PM	Well after some looking and some thinking this is what i came up with, with some help from NoldorForce and Thomar_of_Uointer. Half-Incarnum Dragon Type changes to Dragon Gains +8 STR +2 Con +2 Int +2 Cha +4 Natural Armor Claws and Bite attack A half-Incarnum Dragon gains a +2 insight bonus on all Knowledge skills for every Soulmeld currently shaped Gain Bonus Essentia Feat, even if you don't meet the prerequisites Also gains one of the following, once chosen cant be changed Breath Weapon - 4D8 Untyped Damage, Ref for Half, can invest Essentia into breath weapon to increase damage by 1d6 per point, and increase Save DC equal to invested Essentia, once invested cant be changed for 24 hours Can learn one Soulmeld from the Soulborns meld list, once chosen cant be changed. Meldshaper level is equal to half HD, Maximum Essentia Capacity is equal to HD. If a Meldshaper class or prestige class is taken the Meldshaper level and maximum essentia capacity is equal to class level. Left out a bit of the basic half-dragon stuff, im trying to get it balanced so my DM wont keep telling me no
dralin 04-04-07, 01:06 AM	any other Ideas, Suggestions or Comments?
UndeadPenguin 04-04-07, 01:39 AM	The idea of an Incarnum half dragon sounds awesome.
Thomar_of_Uointer 04-04-07, 03:16 AM	Well after some looking and some thinking this is what i came up with, with some help from NoldorForce and Thomar_of_Uointer. Half-Incarnum Dragon Type changes to Dragon Gains +8 STR +2 Con +2 Int +2 Cha +4 Natural Armor Claws and Bite attack A half-Incarnum Dragon gains a +2 insight bonus on all Knowledge skills for every Soulmeld currently shaped Gain Bonus Essentia Feat, even if you don't meet the prerequisites Also gains one of the following, once chosen cant be changed Breath Weapon - 6D8 Untyped Damage, Ref for Half, can invest Essentia into breath weapon to increase damage by 1d6 per point, and increase Save DC equal to invested Essentia Can learn one Soulmeld from the Soulborns meld list, once chosen cant be changed. Meldshaper level and maximum essentia capacity is equal to half HD. If a Meldshaper class or prestige class is taken the Meldshaper level and maximum essentia capacity is equal to class level. Left out a bit of the basic half-dragon stuff, im trying to get it balanced so my DM wont keep telling me no Don't do the half essentia capacity. Capacity is based on your total levels already (and is quite balanced that way), that's just a burden to them. Otherwise, it looks good. I like the ability to invest in the breath weapon, add a note that essentia invested in that can't be changed for 24 hours. Personally, I would choose limit them to the types of soulmelds that Incarnum Dragons shape (Crown, Brow, or Throat).
dralin 04-04-07, 07:33 AM	OK Dragon breath has been edited, I limited the Essentia Capacity for non-meldshapers cause the Dragons Essentia Capacity is only Half its HD. The Dragon has access to the Soulborns entire meld list, it is just limited to those 3 binds only
dralin 04-09-07, 09:16 AM	any other ideas or opinions?
Thomar_of_Uointer 04-09-07, 11:36 AM	I still think you shouldn't limit the essentia capacity. The dragon has it because it has an ungodly number of Hit Dice. Even characters who take the Shape Soulmeld feat don't get that.
dralin 04-10-07, 09:22 AM	Ok maximum essentia capacity now matches HD.
retillin 04-10-07, 09:34 AM	Maybe and this is just a maybe, lower the dmg from the breathweapon to 4d6. Now stay with me here, it is un-named so no resistance towards it. That is huge. Keep in the fact that you can invest essentia in it, maybe place it at a HD level. Just for expample: Starting Breath Weapon is 4d6 unnamed. For every 3 HD the char has he can invest an essentia in it to gain a 1d6 dmg bonus. Again just an Idea for it. Other than that I think it look great.
Thomar_of_Uointer 04-10-07, 10:02 AM	Maybe and this is just a maybe, lower the dmg from the breathweapon to 4d6. Now stay with me here, it is un-named so no resistance towards it. That is huge. Keep in the fact that you can invest essentia in it, maybe place it at a HD level. Just for expample: Starting Breath Weapon is 4d6 unnamed. For every 3 HD the char has he can invest an essentia in it to gain a 1d6 dmg bonus. Again just an Idea for it. Other than that I think it look great. Although it's typeless, they don't get energy immunity either. Normally, the amount of essentia you can invest is roughly equal to 1 + 1 per 5 levels (they have a table). That actually makes it more powerful. Also, investing essentia means you lose that essentia for 24 hours, very crippling for any incarnum build.
dralin 04-12-07, 11:35 AM	Well do to insight of a fellow power-gamer, i lowered the Breath Weapon to 4D6 because he reminded me of how powerful a untyped breath weapon is, you can still increase the power of it with essentia but it wont get as strong.