Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Crimsondagger 06-03-07, 11:46 AM	Ok we have a character on a sunday campaign that has a small problem. His intelagance is a six so we have spent to much time arguing just what he can comunicate and just what he cant. In other words what is the limit to just how much he can say and what he can convey.
Thomar_of_Uointer 06-03-07, 12:27 PM	A rough estimate of IQ is to multiply the character's Intelligence score by 10. Thus, we're looking at somebody with an IQ of 60. Definitely a "special needs" student in school, but as an adult with a job people like that are fairly well-adjusted (if a little slow). He's definitely not the brightest bulb on the shelf, and he's got a limited vocabulary (compared to the standard college student demographic of D&D players), but he can still function. In terms of skill, this is the guy who can only get away with a Profession instead of a Craft (approximately a tenfold difference in wages), in our society this means bagging groceries or construction work, but in a D&D society this may qualify him to be a guard or mercenary. It's not like he's frothing at the mouth all day, he's just slow. How the character is played is really up to the player. I would recommend never using any words with more than two syllables. Still, a lot of the way a character acts socially is also dependent on Wisdom and Charisma. If he has a really high Charisma, he might be able to come off as very intelligent by faking it (you've seen those guys, they use big words out of context).
malykoth 06-03-07, 12:33 PM	I agree with Thomar...as for roleplay, just use the standard manner of portraying such individuals; say "duuuuh" a lot, talk in an exaggerated childish manner, refer to self by name or by saying "me" (Me want that. Me kill you now! Etc.). You get the idea. Disclaimer: this is not meant in any way to offend anyone who really is mentally or intellectually challenged, so don't anyone get their knickers in a twist over it.
Phalo 06-03-07, 12:43 PM	also keep in mind having a low int really only limits skill points these skills (# Appraise, Craft, Decipher Script, Disable Device, Forgery, Knowledge, Search, and Spellcraft checks.) and the ability to take wizard class Int is just the reasoning and learning. If this guy has a decent Wis (willpower, common sense, perception, and intuition) and Cha (character’s force of personality, persuasiveness, personal magnetism, ability to lead, and physical attractiveness) he come off smarter than the rest of the characters. So in day to day life should be no problem epically if he had trained for specific task for a long time. He should not be the guy who makes the plans.
Factol Rhys 06-03-07, 01:19 PM	I think a character with a low Intelligence score can probably do just fine in a conversation about something he spends time doing. He won't necessarily wow you with the breadth or depth of his expertise, but a fighter talking about a fight can probably use some surprisingly advanced terms, just from having gone through basic training. I might think of Downey, the PFC on trial in A Few Good Men, as an example of a perfectly functional, low-Intelligence character. He was a model soldier, fulfilling all his duties with merit. But when put on the witness stand and subjected to questions that he wasn't prepared for, he tripped up and got confused. My point is that you don't need to hamstring yourself all the time when playing a low-Int character. Just maybe have him be uncomfortable having to deal with new situations. He's slow to think on his feet and does better when he's following orders or routine.
JulesCARV 06-03-07, 01:51 PM	If you have a lot of bandwidth to waste, watch Crossmack's (http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=Crossmack) videos. I'm not sure exactly what his int would be in D&D terms, but if you can learn to talk like him, it ought to work.
AMGriffin 06-03-07, 05:07 PM	An Intelligence of six is the norm for an ogre. He's going to have a pretty simply vocabulary and probably have broken grammar, but far from being too stupid to function relatively effectively in society. If he's got a wisdom score that's pretty high (14+) then he shouldn't be played as a bumbling moron. He'd just say little and have a limited vocabulary.
Pfisiar 06-03-07, 05:15 PM	A six intelligence is not hard to roleplay, but anything below that becomes rather unplayable. A six intelligence character can learn enough to survive, but won't be able to philosophize, outwit or create any sort of work of art. Think Lenny in Of Mice and Men. Or perhaps Grimlock on Transformers. Wise enough to know what's going on. Dense enough to be a lousy leader or planner.
WizO_Cat 06-03-07, 09:51 PM	Thread moved to more appropriate board.
buzzsawl 06-04-07, 05:07 AM	I really think it depends on WIS and to a lesser degree CHA as well. INT is more about IQ. Can they figure out word problems, puzzles, math. How good is their memory for facts, etc. How big are the words they use. WIS is common sense. Planning Strategically. Predicting peoples responses. Giving good advise. I'd say a high WIS can almost be an excuse to meta-game. CHA could be considered EQ. Personal skills. Empathy. Etc. I've certainly met some people who relate to others almost solely in one of these ways, and lack the others.
Sigst 06-04-07, 07:07 AM	Assuming that average characters roll 3d6 for their attributes, an intelligence 6 person will approximately be in the 5th to 9th lowest percentile of the population at large. That is low, corresponding to an IQ of about 75 to 80, but it is not idiocy. A person like this, well outside the bottom percentile of the population, would be quite capable of holding a normal conversation, with reasonably proper grammar so there is no need to demand that the player talks "Me is Kai. Kai is what I be called. You... who are you?" when in normal conversation. A person like this is quite capable of grasping basic concepts, but may have trouble with lengthy lines of reasoning which require abstract thinking. Sig
northern_bear 06-04-07, 08:02 AM	Ok we have a character on a sunday campaign that has a small problem. His intelagance is a six so we have spent to much time arguing just what he can comunicate and just what he cant. In other words what is the limit to just how much he can say and what he can convey. Inteligence, among humans, is generated by rolling 3d6. Statistically, 9.3% of the populations should have an inteligence of 6 or lower. So assume that this charcter exibts behaviour similar to the stupidest 10% of people you know.
Pfisiar 06-04-07, 08:29 AM	Inteligence, among humans, is generated by rolling 3d6. Statistically, 9.3% of the populations should have an inteligence of 6 or lower. So assume that this charcter exibts behaviour similar to the stupidest 10% of people you know. Of course, we're assuming that genetic markers for intelligence behave like rolling 3d6. This is, of course, an absurd abstraction.
northern_bear 06-04-07, 09:03 AM	Of course, we're assuming that genetic markers for intelligence behave like rolling 3d6. This is, of course, an absurd abstraction. I don't know what the heck you're talking about. Genetic markers? Anyway, you are wrong. My point is completely valid. It is not absurd. In the world of Dungeons & Dragons, the inteligence of a human being is determined by rolling 3d6. Therefore, statistically speaking, 9.3% of the humans in the world of D&D will have an inteligence of 6 or less. This character is among the stupidest 10% of D&D humans. D&D humans are very similar to real world humans. So just take the stupidest 10% or real world humans as the benchmark for how dumb this character should be. In what sense is this absurd?
darkneolink 06-04-07, 10:32 AM	Read Order of the stick and watch Thog the barbarian use him as a guide
tui 06-04-07, 01:24 PM	The text at the bottom of page 10 in the PH has some helpful information about playing characters with low Int, Wis, and Cha. For Int, it says "A character with a low intelligence mispronounces and misuses words, has trouble following directions, or fails to get the joke." With a 6 intelligence, the character probably shouldn't be using much logic to figure things out... should generally try simple and straight-forward things that have worked in the past for future strategies in combat and such, without much thought to how things are different between various situations. As to your actual question about what can be communicated, I'd say most things that don't require really complicated words or concepts should be fine. He could have speech problems, but just as likely not.. Things get particularly complicated when you play a low Int, high Wis character... since Wisdom is common sense and intuition... you may not know whether the rope bridge over the gaping chasm is solid, or know what the floating lanterns in the bog are, but might "have a bad feeling about this." If your player is just using Int as a dump stat and isn't role-playing it at all, you should probably suggest he make a new character. A low Int character CAN be really fun to develop and play....
sbattisti 06-04-07, 01:32 PM	This character is among the stupidest 10% of D&D humans. D&D humans are very similar to real world humans. So just take the stupidest 10% or real world humans as the benchmark for how dumb this character should be. In what sense is this absurd? I think his point is that intelligence distribution in the real world cannot be proved to be statistically similar to intelligence distribution in D&D humans. For example, the # of real-world humans with an IQ < 70 (or whatever benchmark you choose) may not turn out to be 10%, it may be 1%. Additionally, your real-world job and background drastically affects the chances of you interacting with people with low IQs on a regular basis. How many people in white-collar jobs could say that 10% of their friends hover around the 70 IQ range? Unless you specifically work with special needs students/adults, or have some regular family contact with the same, you're probably not likely to have much contact at all. This would mean the 10% of your friends you are comparing to are likely much higher than 70 IQ, and thus not a good comparison for this character. So, while I'm not sure I would use the word "absurd," I don't think your suggestion works very well. Or, so I submit, in a sort of non-"you suck" kinda way. :)
loaba 06-04-07, 06:22 PM	Read Order of the stick and watch Thog the barbarian use him as a guide I'm confused, who is Thog using as a guide?
Thomar_of_Uointer 06-04-07, 09:37 PM	Read Order of the stick and watch Thog the barbarian use him as a guide No, Thog's Intelligence is 3.
celtredleg 06-04-07, 10:40 PM	I'm confused, who is Thog using as a guide? You sir, he is useing you as his guide:) Of course I hope you relize I did not infact mean that Ioaba, but could not resist.
Thubby 06-04-07, 11:43 PM	low inteligent characters see everything you would, they just have a more visceral understanding of it. when deciding what to say, like about a past event, think about what he fealt like, how everyone acted, as opposed to what they did or said. "i scared cuz teh shiny guy getsed all angry and try to hurt me" (this might be lower than 6) tenses are usualy shot, and names will be easily forgotten, try making nicknames for characters with complex names. urglemexsmes the centaur becomes "horseman". I've found people with what we would call low inteligence have a big problem with explaining procedures to others. to solve a puzzle, build something, giving direction, they are more likely to show you, in mid air if necesary. they know how, they just cant put it into words well.
Disciple_of_Salsa 06-05-07, 01:59 AM	Umm.... Guys, I was thinking about repling to this post, but I'm kinda tired from repling to THE SAME QUESTION in the whats a DM to do posts. Some chacter is asking about his int 4 troll barbarian and I already wrote one for that. You should go look at that one. Its called "how smart is intellegent" or something like that. Yeah. Okay. Rawr.:mad:
Crimsondagger 06-03-07, 11:46 AM	Ok we have a character on a sunday campaign that has a small problem. His intelagance is a six so we have spent to much time arguing just what he can comunicate and just what he cant. In other words what is the limit to just how much he can say and what he can convey.
Thomar_of_Uointer 06-03-07, 12:27 PM	A rough estimate of IQ is to multiply the character's Intelligence score by 10. Thus, we're looking at somebody with an IQ of 60. Definitely a "special needs" student in school, but as an adult with a job people like that are fairly well-adjusted (if a little slow). He's definitely not the brightest bulb on the shelf, and he's got a limited vocabulary (compared to the standard college student demographic of D&D players), but he can still function. In terms of skill, this is the guy who can only get away with a Profession instead of a Craft (approximately a tenfold difference in wages), in our society this means bagging groceries or construction work, but in a D&D society this may qualify him to be a guard or mercenary. It's not like he's frothing at the mouth all day, he's just slow. How the character is played is really up to the player. I would recommend never using any words with more than two syllables. Still, a lot of the way a character acts socially is also dependent on Wisdom and Charisma. If he has a really high Charisma, he might be able to come off as very intelligent by faking it (you've seen those guys, they use big words out of context).
malykoth 06-03-07, 12:33 PM	I agree with Thomar...as for roleplay, just use the standard manner of portraying such individuals; say "duuuuh" a lot, talk in an exaggerated childish manner, refer to self by name or by saying "me" (Me want that. Me kill you now! Etc.). You get the idea. Disclaimer: this is not meant in any way to offend anyone who really is mentally or intellectually challenged, so don't anyone get their knickers in a twist over it.
Phalo 06-03-07, 12:43 PM	also keep in mind having a low int really only limits skill points these skills (# Appraise, Craft, Decipher Script, Disable Device, Forgery, Knowledge, Search, and Spellcraft checks.) and the ability to take wizard class Int is just the reasoning and learning. If this guy has a decent Wis (willpower, common sense, perception, and intuition) and Cha (character’s force of personality, persuasiveness, personal magnetism, ability to lead, and physical attractiveness) he come off smarter than the rest of the characters. So in day to day life should be no problem epically if he had trained for specific task for a long time. He should not be the guy who makes the plans.
Factol Rhys 06-03-07, 01:19 PM	I think a character with a low Intelligence score can probably do just fine in a conversation about something he spends time doing. He won't necessarily wow you with the breadth or depth of his expertise, but a fighter talking about a fight can probably use some surprisingly advanced terms, just from having gone through basic training. I might think of Downey, the PFC on trial in A Few Good Men, as an example of a perfectly functional, low-Intelligence character. He was a model soldier, fulfilling all his duties with merit. But when put on the witness stand and subjected to questions that he wasn't prepared for, he tripped up and got confused. My point is that you don't need to hamstring yourself all the time when playing a low-Int character. Just maybe have him be uncomfortable having to deal with new situations. He's slow to think on his feet and does better when he's following orders or routine.
JulesCARV 06-03-07, 01:51 PM	If you have a lot of bandwidth to waste, watch Crossmack's (http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=Crossmack) videos. I'm not sure exactly what his int would be in D&D terms, but if you can learn to talk like him, it ought to work.
AMGriffin 06-03-07, 05:07 PM	An Intelligence of six is the norm for an ogre. He's going to have a pretty simply vocabulary and probably have broken grammar, but far from being too stupid to function relatively effectively in society. If he's got a wisdom score that's pretty high (14+) then he shouldn't be played as a bumbling moron. He'd just say little and have a limited vocabulary.
Pfisiar 06-03-07, 05:15 PM	A six intelligence is not hard to roleplay, but anything below that becomes rather unplayable. A six intelligence character can learn enough to survive, but won't be able to philosophize, outwit or create any sort of work of art. Think Lenny in Of Mice and Men. Or perhaps Grimlock on Transformers. Wise enough to know what's going on. Dense enough to be a lousy leader or planner.
WizO_Cat 06-03-07, 09:51 PM	Thread moved to more appropriate board.
buzzsawl 06-04-07, 05:07 AM	I really think it depends on WIS and to a lesser degree CHA as well. INT is more about IQ. Can they figure out word problems, puzzles, math. How good is their memory for facts, etc. How big are the words they use. WIS is common sense. Planning Strategically. Predicting peoples responses. Giving good advise. I'd say a high WIS can almost be an excuse to meta-game. CHA could be considered EQ. Personal skills. Empathy. Etc. I've certainly met some people who relate to others almost solely in one of these ways, and lack the others.
Sigst 06-04-07, 07:07 AM	Assuming that average characters roll 3d6 for their attributes, an intelligence 6 person will approximately be in the 5th to 9th lowest percentile of the population at large. That is low, corresponding to an IQ of about 75 to 80, but it is not idiocy. A person like this, well outside the bottom percentile of the population, would be quite capable of holding a normal conversation, with reasonably proper grammar so there is no need to demand that the player talks "Me is Kai. Kai is what I be called. You... who are you?" when in normal conversation. A person like this is quite capable of grasping basic concepts, but may have trouble with lengthy lines of reasoning which require abstract thinking. Sig
northern_bear 06-04-07, 08:02 AM	Ok we have a character on a sunday campaign that has a small problem. His intelagance is a six so we have spent to much time arguing just what he can comunicate and just what he cant. In other words what is the limit to just how much he can say and what he can convey. Inteligence, among humans, is generated by rolling 3d6. Statistically, 9.3% of the populations should have an inteligence of 6 or lower. So assume that this charcter exibts behaviour similar to the stupidest 10% of people you know.
Pfisiar 06-04-07, 08:29 AM	Inteligence, among humans, is generated by rolling 3d6. Statistically, 9.3% of the populations should have an inteligence of 6 or lower. So assume that this charcter exibts behaviour similar to the stupidest 10% of people you know. Of course, we're assuming that genetic markers for intelligence behave like rolling 3d6. This is, of course, an absurd abstraction.
northern_bear 06-04-07, 09:03 AM	Of course, we're assuming that genetic markers for intelligence behave like rolling 3d6. This is, of course, an absurd abstraction. I don't know what the heck you're talking about. Genetic markers? Anyway, you are wrong. My point is completely valid. It is not absurd. In the world of Dungeons & Dragons, the inteligence of a human being is determined by rolling 3d6. Therefore, statistically speaking, 9.3% of the humans in the world of D&D will have an inteligence of 6 or less. This character is among the stupidest 10% of D&D humans. D&D humans are very similar to real world humans. So just take the stupidest 10% or real world humans as the benchmark for how dumb this character should be. In what sense is this absurd?
darkneolink 06-04-07, 10:32 AM	Read Order of the stick and watch Thog the barbarian use him as a guide
tui 06-04-07, 01:24 PM	The text at the bottom of page 10 in the PH has some helpful information about playing characters with low Int, Wis, and Cha. For Int, it says "A character with a low intelligence mispronounces and misuses words, has trouble following directions, or fails to get the joke." With a 6 intelligence, the character probably shouldn't be using much logic to figure things out... should generally try simple and straight-forward things that have worked in the past for future strategies in combat and such, without much thought to how things are different between various situations. As to your actual question about what can be communicated, I'd say most things that don't require really complicated words or concepts should be fine. He could have speech problems, but just as likely not.. Things get particularly complicated when you play a low Int, high Wis character... since Wisdom is common sense and intuition... you may not know whether the rope bridge over the gaping chasm is solid, or know what the floating lanterns in the bog are, but might "have a bad feeling about this." If your player is just using Int as a dump stat and isn't role-playing it at all, you should probably suggest he make a new character. A low Int character CAN be really fun to develop and play....
sbattisti 06-04-07, 01:32 PM	This character is among the stupidest 10% of D&D humans. D&D humans are very similar to real world humans. So just take the stupidest 10% or real world humans as the benchmark for how dumb this character should be. In what sense is this absurd? I think his point is that intelligence distribution in the real world cannot be proved to be statistically similar to intelligence distribution in D&D humans. For example, the # of real-world humans with an IQ < 70 (or whatever benchmark you choose) may not turn out to be 10%, it may be 1%. Additionally, your real-world job and background drastically affects the chances of you interacting with people with low IQs on a regular basis. How many people in white-collar jobs could say that 10% of their friends hover around the 70 IQ range? Unless you specifically work with special needs students/adults, or have some regular family contact with the same, you're probably not likely to have much contact at all. This would mean the 10% of your friends you are comparing to are likely much higher than 70 IQ, and thus not a good comparison for this character. So, while I'm not sure I would use the word "absurd," I don't think your suggestion works very well. Or, so I submit, in a sort of non-"you suck" kinda way. :)
loaba 06-04-07, 06:22 PM	Read Order of the stick and watch Thog the barbarian use him as a guide I'm confused, who is Thog using as a guide?
Thomar_of_Uointer 06-04-07, 09:37 PM	Read Order of the stick and watch Thog the barbarian use him as a guide No, Thog's Intelligence is 3.
celtredleg 06-04-07, 10:40 PM	I'm confused, who is Thog using as a guide? You sir, he is useing you as his guide:) Of course I hope you relize I did not infact mean that Ioaba, but could not resist.
Thubby 06-04-07, 11:43 PM	low inteligent characters see everything you would, they just have a more visceral understanding of it. when deciding what to say, like about a past event, think about what he fealt like, how everyone acted, as opposed to what they did or said. "i scared cuz teh shiny guy getsed all angry and try to hurt me" (this might be lower than 6) tenses are usualy shot, and names will be easily forgotten, try making nicknames for characters with complex names. urglemexsmes the centaur becomes "horseman". I've found people with what we would call low inteligence have a big problem with explaining procedures to others. to solve a puzzle, build something, giving direction, they are more likely to show you, in mid air if necesary. they know how, they just cant put it into words well.
Disciple_of_Salsa 06-05-07, 01:59 AM	Umm.... Guys, I was thinking about repling to this post, but I'm kinda tired from repling to THE SAME QUESTION in the whats a DM to do posts. Some chacter is asking about his int 4 troll barbarian and I already wrote one for that. You should go look at that one. Its called "how smart is intellegent" or something like that. Yeah. Okay. Rawr.:mad: