Post/Author/DateTime	Post
thorofasgard13 03-14-07, 02:52 PM	From the Races description it seems that the Githyanki and Githzerai were once one race, Do you think there is any way that you could make a true Gith that is equal Halves of both, a progenitor race?
Thomar_of_Uointer 03-14-07, 06:12 PM	Absolutely. Unfortunately, I do not have a MM or XPH on hand. :(
R4za 03-14-07, 06:50 PM	Yes, but they wouldn't be very interesting. Considering the exceptional qualities of both subraces are largely different, the only obvious way they could've gained them is during their histories after the division. Which means that an 'original' gith probably wouldn't have either of those typical qualities - which fits the idea of a race having been created for slavework. They'd have their 60 feet darkvision, be naturally psionic without many (or even any) inherent psi-like abilities to manifest with their 2 or so free power points, and probably a +2 dexterity (only stat adj shared by the two races) and -2 charisma (they're pretty ugly, and being designed and conditioned for slavery they probably didn't have much strength of personality before getting it kicked into them by zerthimon and gith). Makes for a pretty dull LA 0 race. Of course, that's assuming you go back into time and grab an average slave gith. A third, seperate culture that's somehow existed since the gith uprising without influence from either githyanki or githzerai would have developed racial strengths of their own by now.
Silverthumb128 03-14-07, 07:20 PM	I swear, there was an issue of Dungeon or Dragon(I'm guessing Dungeon?) that had stats for a Gith, and yeah, they weren't terribly cool. They were an LA +0 race, and weren't as cool as you might think, given how awesome both Githyanki and Githzerai are. It was more of a mutt, you might say.
thorofasgard13 03-14-07, 11:09 PM	I'm sorry that I wasnt very clear, I didnt mean the original slave race but the singular race that overthrew the illithids, the ones led by Gith. The reason I ask this is because comparing an illithid to a githyanki or githzerai they would have to have been a little bit stronger to kick them down a few notches. I meant a gith modelled after Gith himself something Like; -+4 Dex, +2 Con - Medium Size - Darkvision out to 60 ft. - A Gith's base land speed is 30 ft. - Psionics: 3/day ; Daze, Mage Hand , at 3rd level: Blur, at 6th level: Dimension door, at 9th level: Telekinesis. All saves are charisma based. - Spell resistance(Ex): CL+5 - * Maybe Inertial Armor, but I can't see any justification* I would replace with Immunity to Detect thoughts. - Automatic Languages: True Gith, Bonus Languages: Common, Undercommon, Draconic. - Favored Class: Soulknife/Monk/Fighter - Level Adjustment: +3 Tell me what you think.
enygmatic_me 03-14-07, 11:34 PM	I'm sorry that I wasnt very clear, I didnt mean the original slave race but the singular race that overthrew the illithids, the ones led by Gith. The reason I ask this is because comparing an illithid to a githyanki or githzerai they would have to have been a little bit stronger to kick them down a few notches. I meant a gith modelled after Gith himself something Like; -+4 Dex, +2 Con - Medium Size - Darkvision out to 60 ft. - A Gith's base land speed is 30 ft. - Psionics: 3/day ; Daze, Mage Hand , at 3rd level: Blur, at 6th level: Dimension door, at 9th level: Telekinesis. All saves are charisma based. - Spell resistance(Ex): CL+5 - * Maybe Inertial Armor, but I can't see any justification* I would replace with Immunity to Detect thoughts. - Automatic Languages: True Gith, Bonus Languages: Common, Undercommon, Draconic. - Favored Class: Soulknife/Monk/Fighter - Level Adjustment: +3 Tell me what you think. The original race was rather weak. It was the fact that Gith was as powerful as she was that really caused the sway in power that allowed the original race to escape. What you have above is a good starting place for, as R4za suggested, a third offshoot of the original race.
bartleby42 03-14-07, 11:34 PM	I'm sorry that I wasnt very clear, I didnt mean the original slave race but the singular race that overthrew the illithids, the ones led by Gith. Uh, there the same. Exactly the same. The "Gith" were the slave race that took thier name from thier liberator and hero Gith, who was one of them. Of course, that's assuming you go back into time and grab an average slave gith. A third, seperate culture that's somehow existed since the gith uprising without influence from either githyanki or githzerai would have developed racial strengths of their own by now. So a race that is in a constant state of agonizing labor and being experimented upon by the cthulu-esque masterminds would be weaker and have less unique ablities than one that grew up in the (reletive) comfort of the astral plane? I can see how the Gith would have thier own powers and abilities. But most of the dominant ones would be suppressed or modified by the illithid. So my money for a "Gith" race would involve eighter a illithid hertiage feat (as woeful as the name and flavor of it is, at least with a change in flavor it can work) and probally the option for an illitihid graft for a level adjustment.
Shadowmind64 03-14-07, 11:40 PM	Please note that Gith was/is a female. The original slave race (the LA+0 one) is the race that overthrew the mindflayers, later split into two by Zerthimon leaving Giths cause and taking a load of gith with him.
GhostStepper 03-14-07, 11:50 PM	I always thought the the orginal race was human. Maybe i got this from an earlier edition.
StevenO 03-14-07, 11:53 PM	I seem to recall the origins of the Gith races were human or something similiar to them. The Illithid may have performed all kinds of cruel acts to them and changed them over time but at the core they were just basic creatures whos environment shaped them into what they are today.
GhostStepper 03-15-07, 12:00 AM	Yeah, i looked it up in my 2nd edition monstrous manual and the first line says "Githyanki are an ancient race decended from humans." I dont know if there is such a statement in 3E however, so everyone is perfectly free to pose any conjecture they'd like.
thorofasgard13 03-15-07, 12:15 AM	The original race was rather weak. It was the fact that Gith was as powerful as she was that really caused the sway in power that allowed the original race to escape. Ok so what I have basically come up with is a third race, what should I call them since I want to base them off of Gith (her), sorry I write in the masculine most times. I also think I should add the red dragon pact, and maybe a +2 strength bonus, changing monk as a favored class for barbarian to fit better with a group of more free spirited, wild fighters. And should I classify them as aberation or outsider?
enygmatic_me 03-15-07, 12:38 AM	Ok so what I have basically come up with is a third race, what should I call them since I want to base them off of Gith (her), sorry I write in the masculine most times. I also think I should add the red dragon pact, and maybe a +2 strength bonus, changing monk as a favored class for barbarian to fit better with a group of more free spirited, wild fighters. And should I classify them as aberation or outsider? That could be the basis of your third offshoot. When Vlaakith broke the pact with the red dragons some of them could have moved to the Baator to be able to directly serve Gith (and a little more directly serve Tiamat). You could modify them by dropping a couple of abilities and giving some more dragon-esque racial features, maybe even give them the Dragonblood subtype.