Is this worth a level adjustment? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Is this worth a level adjustment? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Sleepwalker13666
07-02-07, 04:18 AM I'm not including fluff, Right now I'm just trying to get the mechanics balanced out.

This race is modified off the whisper gnome, which some people consider worth a level adjustment despite it being labeled as +0.

+2 Dex, +2 Con, -2 Str, -2 Cha
Medium Size
Base Land Speed 30
Low Light Vision
Darkvision 60 Ft
+2 Racial bonus to Hide, Move Silent, Listen and Spot
Naturally Psionic: 1 Power Point
Favored Class: Lurk
Rerecros
07-02-07, 04:46 AM Increase darkvision to 60' like everyone else :P
This is close enough to be considered LA+0.
dknight100
07-02-07, 04:57 AM Yea, your stats and bonuses are all fairly close to the baseline, whilst the dark vision is not significantly unbalancing. I'd give that LA+0
Radijs
07-02-07, 06:08 AM What Dknight & Receros said. No level adjustment and 60 ft. darkvision no problem.
Sleepwalker13666
07-02-07, 02:22 PM Alright, changed to 60, thanks for your help.
BrotherDog
07-04-07, 07:28 AM Also speed should be 20 to keep it at +0. I could see giving a small race a 30 speed if they had more penalties like kobolds and goblins get, but evened out stats like that, might have some suggesting a +1 LA for the speed alone. Not that rules say anything anywhere about it, but I can see why some would say it.
Neutronium_Dragon
07-04-07, 09:52 AM Erm, they're medium, not small.
calronmoonflower
07-04-07, 06:55 PM By the rules in the Dungeon master's Guide it is a +1 creature (but so if the dwarf?).

That's because it takes a total of -4 to metal stats to compensate for a +2 physical stat bonus.

Also the Savage Species say the number of skill bonuses the race get would be worth another +1 (human skill bonuses would meet that requirement as well?)

It seems all together it should realistically be a +.5 race, but level adjustments don't come in halves.

Dropping two of the skill bonuses or taking and -2 hit to metal stats would even it out to a solid +0.
AMGriffin
07-04-07, 10:59 PM Ooh, its a close call.

Ultimately it looks a little bit like a watered down version of the hobgoblin.

Yeah, I'd agree that's LA+0.
Tsathoggua
07-04-07, 11:19 PM Using the feature points, it looks like LA +0. It's certainly not good enough to be LA +1. Maybe a little better than your average race, but who cares? It's not game-shaking.
ravenshrike
07-04-07, 11:28 PM By the rules in the Dungeon master's Guide it is a +1 creature (but so if the dwarf?).

That's because it takes a total of -4 to metal stats to compensate for a +2 physical stat bonus.

Which, given that at medium to high levels a bonus to a mental stat can be much more deadly, is ****ing stupid.
NoldorForce
07-05-07, 12:48 AM @ calronmoonflower: In the proper circumstances, a boost to any particular ability score can be potent. And besides, look at dwarves with their +2 Constitution and -2 Charisma.

@ OP: It's a strong race. But by no means does it deserve any level adjustment. Dwarves are strong; gnomes are strong; humans are strong. LA +0 is fine. Savage Species contains a bunch of guidelines...but it does emphasize that they are in fact guidelines rather than hard-and-fast rules.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Sleepwalker13666 07-02-07, 04:18 AM	I'm not including fluff, Right now I'm just trying to get the mechanics balanced out. This race is modified off the whisper gnome, which some people consider worth a level adjustment despite it being labeled as +0. +2 Dex, +2 Con, -2 Str, -2 Cha Medium Size Base Land Speed 30 Low Light Vision Darkvision 60 Ft +2 Racial bonus to Hide, Move Silent, Listen and Spot Naturally Psionic: 1 Power Point Favored Class: Lurk
Rerecros 07-02-07, 04:46 AM	Increase darkvision to 60' like everyone else :P This is close enough to be considered LA+0.
dknight100 07-02-07, 04:57 AM	Yea, your stats and bonuses are all fairly close to the baseline, whilst the dark vision is not significantly unbalancing. I'd give that LA+0
Radijs 07-02-07, 06:08 AM	What Dknight & Receros said. No level adjustment and 60 ft. darkvision no problem.
Sleepwalker13666 07-02-07, 02:22 PM	Alright, changed to 60, thanks for your help.
BrotherDog 07-04-07, 07:28 AM	Also speed should be 20 to keep it at +0. I could see giving a small race a 30 speed if they had more penalties like kobolds and goblins get, but evened out stats like that, might have some suggesting a +1 LA for the speed alone. Not that rules say anything anywhere about it, but I can see why some would say it.
Neutronium_Dragon 07-04-07, 09:52 AM	Erm, they're medium, not small.
calronmoonflower 07-04-07, 06:55 PM	By the rules in the Dungeon master's Guide it is a +1 creature (but so if the dwarf?). That's because it takes a total of -4 to metal stats to compensate for a +2 physical stat bonus. Also the Savage Species say the number of skill bonuses the race get would be worth another +1 (human skill bonuses would meet that requirement as well?) It seems all together it should realistically be a +.5 race, but level adjustments don't come in halves. Dropping two of the skill bonuses or taking and -2 hit to metal stats would even it out to a solid +0.
AMGriffin 07-04-07, 10:59 PM	Ooh, its a close call. Ultimately it looks a little bit like a watered down version of the hobgoblin. Yeah, I'd agree that's LA+0.
Tsathoggua 07-04-07, 11:19 PM	Using the feature points, it looks like LA +0. It's certainly not good enough to be LA +1. Maybe a little better than your average race, but who cares? It's not game-shaking.
ravenshrike 07-04-07, 11:28 PM	By the rules in the Dungeon master's Guide it is a +1 creature (but so if the dwarf?). That's because it takes a total of -4 to metal stats to compensate for a +2 physical stat bonus. Which, given that at medium to high levels a bonus to a mental stat can be much more deadly, is ****ing stupid.
NoldorForce 07-05-07, 12:48 AM	@ calronmoonflower: In the proper circumstances, a boost to any particular ability score can be potent. And besides, look at dwarves with their +2 Constitution and -2 Charisma. @ OP: It's a strong race. But by no means does it deserve any level adjustment. Dwarves are strong; gnomes are strong; humans are strong. LA +0 is fine. Savage Species contains a bunch of guidelines...but it does emphasize that they are in fact guidelines rather than hard-and-fast rules.