Jotun [Archive] - Wizards Community - Pages Merged by Solauren

Jotun [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
TheDarkPrince
08-10-07, 07:31 PM http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/wrath/images/artwork/ss5-hires.jpg

The Jotun are an ancient race. They are Half-Giants derived from the couplings of Humans, and the very first Titans. For centuries the Jotun and Titans were equals, although the Titans viewed them more as younger siblings or sometimes even as pets to be cared for. But when the war between the Titans and the Gods started, the Jotun were used by both sides as fodder. With ferocious strength, and savage cunning, the Jotun formed the elites of many an army. But on the battlefield, the Jotun saw that the slaughter they brought to each other was disgusting, so they left both the Gods and the Titans to their petty wars, and hid in the most remote corners of the planet, not to be seen again for countless millennia.

Personality: Jotun are much like dwarves, slow to jest, laugh, or trust. But they are honorable and doggedly loyal to those who earn their friendship. Jotun value honor and physical prowess above all else, but they also respect the value of sound tactics. Their society is based around "The Hunt", a philisophical and moral/religious ideal. (See religion).

Physical Description: Jotun are very large creatures, with most standing at 7 to 8 feet, weighing up to 600 pounds, with females being only slightly smaller and lighter than males. The Jotun-Ir, or Titan Blessed, are even bigger, reaching heights of 10 to 12 feet tall. Jotun mature slowly, reaching adulthood at 140, and many live to be longer than 900 years old.

Relations: Jotun get along well with dwarves, who they share much in common with. Gnomes and Jotun never form lasting friendships, but they are rarely known to be at odds, and many Jotun view them as miniature dwarves. Humans are viewed as a young race, with much potential, yet Jotun see their exuberence and sponteniety as more hazardous than beneficial, and treat humans as slightly explosive teddy bears. Halflings have no special bond with Jotun, and are treated on a more individual bases, same with elves.

Alignment: Jotun are honorable, and follow the rules of the Hunt, so many are lawful, but an equal amount are chaotic, reveling in the more random aspects that the hunt can inspire and create. Most Jotun are good, with a smaller amount being neutral, and a very small percentage being evil. Most, if not all, evil Jotun are exiled, mainly because they refuse to follow the rules of the hunt.

Lands: Most Jotun live in the far north, or far south, naturally enjoying and thriving in even the coldest of temperatures. Jotun outside of their natural environment are either on The Hunt, adventuring, or are exiles (Jotun-Nout).

Religion: Jotun culture revolves around the concept of the Hunt. It is a philosophy claiming that only the strong thrive, yet others depend on the strong to survive. Jotun hunt creatures the world over in order to prove their strength to their clans, and to gain other rewards (only a Jotun who has Hunted may look for a mate, this goes for males and females.)

No ranged combat outside of the targets vision range. (Although ranged combat from behind is allowed, no ranged combat from the top of a crennalated wall or hidden cubby on a cliff face....)
If a quarry escapes or betters the Hunter, the quarry is free to leave, and is to be left alone. Escaped prey can only be freed if no trail can be found.
No Hunter may prolong the death of a prey through torture, although poison is allowed. Any helpless (i.e. paralyzed, unconcious, etc.) prey must be put to a quick death, not left to suffer.
Prey that has been defeated cannot be defiled in any way, although a small token such as an ear, finger, tusk, etc. may be taken as a totem trophy.

Language: Jotun speak Jotun-Bur, but many also learn to speak Dwarf, Common, and Giant.

Adventurers: Jotun adventurers are either on the Hunt, or given leave by the Clan Chief to wonder in order to experience the world and bring knowledge to the clan. Many Jotun who are allowed to leave on these terms often include Hunts into their adventures.

Racial Traits

+2 Strength, +2 Constitution, -2 Dexterity, -4 Charisma: Jotun are physically powerful and healthy, but not very deft, and their ways are alien and they're really BIG :eek: !
Jotun are of the Giant race, and count as such for items, spells, etc.
Jotunbrud:The physical stature of Jotun lets them function in many ways as if they were one size category larger. Whenever a Jotun is subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for an opposed check (such as during grapple checks, bull rush attempts, and trip attempts), the Jotun is treated as one size larger if doing so is advantageous to him. A Jotun is also considered to be one size larger when determining whether a creature’s special attacks based on size (such as improved grab or swallow whole) can affect him. However, his space and reach remain those of a creature of his actual size. The benefits of this racial trait stack with the effects of powers, abilities, and spells that change the subject’s size category.
Speed:Jotun base land speed is 30 feet. However, Jotun can move this speed while wearing medium armor or when carrying a medium load.
Low-Light Vision: Jotun can see three times as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination.
Favored Class: Barbarian.

P.E.A.C.H!!

Thanks, Cheers! :D
Jaxgaret
08-10-07, 07:38 PM 7'6"-8'6" and 600 pounds = Large.

They need to be shorter on average, say 7'-8' tall to be Medium w/ Powerful Build.
TheDarkPrince
08-10-07, 07:43 PM ok. Thanks, that was one of the things I was worrying about.

Cheers! :D
Red_Decker
08-10-07, 07:45 PM [U]As an aside: I never really liked the Half-Giants presented in the Psionics books. I mean, why would a Giant, with little or no psionic power, spawn a child with psionic gifts?

because that's how they were in Dark Sun... I thought that answer was obvious.

I'm fairly certain that they would still be a +1 LA due to the mismatched stats. Perhaps if you added another negative to an ability, most likely Cha since you said similar to dwarves.
And what type of creature are they? Humanoid, Giant, abberation? gotta spell it out.
http://www.geocities.com/customsmiliesbyswordmaster/inthered.txt
Angel Black
08-10-07, 10:22 PM Racial Traits

+2 Strength, +2 Constitution, -2 Dexterity: Jotun are physically powerful and healthy, but not very deft.\
Medium: As Medium creatures, Jotun have no bonuses or penalties do to their size.
Powerful Build:The physical stature of Jotun lets them function in many ways as if they were one size category larger. Whenever a Jotun is subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for an opposed check (such as during grapple checks, bull rush attempts, and trip attempts), the Jotun is treated as one size larger if doing so is advantageous to him. A Jotun is also considered to be one size larger when determining whether a creature’s special attacks based on size (such as improved grab or swallow whole) can affect him. A Jotun can use weapons designed for a creature one size larger without penalty. However, his space and reach remain those of a creature of his actual size. The benefits of this racial trait stack with the effects of powers, abilities, and spells that change the subject’s size category.
Speed:Jotun base land speed is 30 feet. However, Jotun can move this speed while wearing medium armor or when carrying a medium load.
Low-Light Vision: Jotun can see three times as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination.
Favored Class: Barbarian.

P.E.A.C.H!!

Thanks, Cheers! :D

Let's see..

+2 Strength: ability bonus (2.5 points)
+2 Constitution: ability bonus (1.25 points)
-2 Dexterity : ability bonus (1.25 points)
Powerful Build (2 points)
Speed: no penalty by medium armour or load (0.8 point)
Low-Light Vision (0.6 point)
Favored Class: Barbarian.

1 point = 1 good feat.

* Powerful build is like an enhanced "monkey grip"
* Lowlight vision is a kind of "great but not that great" advantanges.

To lower the LA, I would remove the Powerful Build, and i woud give "monkey grip" as bonus feat, and I would add:

Special: can take Powerful Build as one of his bonus feats with a prerequisite of 3 HD.
TheDarkPrince
08-11-07, 12:08 AM Whats with the points?

Yeah I'll add a charisma penalty. I never played Dark Sun, so I wouldn't know. Sorry. Should I add the LA on top of the Charisma penalty, or make the penalty heftly enough (-4?) that LA isn't needed?

They're giants, I'll add that in, sorry.

Thanks, Cheers! :D
Jaxgaret
08-11-07, 03:25 AM Yeah I'll add a charisma penalty. I never played Dark Sun, so I wouldn't know. Sorry. Should I add the LA on top of the Charisma penalty, or make the penalty heftly enough (-4?) that LA isn't needed?

I think you would be better off with +2 Str +2 Con -4 Dex -2 Cha. That way the physical stats add up to +0. With only LLV and Powerful Build as racial features and a total negative ability mod, it would probably be balanced at LA+0.

You might need to drop the Cha to -4 as well, but I doubt it. It seems fine to me as I detailed above.
TheDarkPrince
08-11-07, 11:03 PM Thanks.

What about the fluff? Is it ok? Cheesy? Too obviously made up "on the spot?"
Jaxgaret
08-12-07, 04:24 PM I previously did not see that they also get normal movement in Medium Armor. I would say that you should drop both Dex and Cha to -4 to compensate for all of their benefits if you want it to be LA+0.
Unholy_King
08-12-07, 04:49 PM Perhaps swap Powerful Build with Jotunbhrand (sp).

It's the same thing as powerful Build except you cant use large weapons.
Jaxgaret
08-12-07, 05:53 PM Jotunbhrand (sp)

Jotunbrud.

I assumed the OP knew of the existence of this feat, from their naming of the race Jotun. But perhaps they don't know if it?
TheDarkPrince
08-12-07, 07:01 PM Nope didn't know of it. I just made these from the norse mythology. I just stole the name.....nothing else.

So it just applies to weapons? Like monkey grip?
Korone
08-12-07, 07:15 PM What's the point of cross-posting this race in the Monster Contest in the Monsters' Lair section ?
Seldriss
08-12-07, 07:29 PM I would recommend these modifications :
Large Humanoid (Giant)
Str +4, Dex -2, Con +2
Large size, Speed 30
Natural Armor Class +2
Resistance to Cold 10
2 Giant Hit Dice, 2d8, BAB+1, For +3, Ref +0, Will +0
Simple & martial weapons, light armors & shields
Languages : Common, Giant
LA+2
Unholy_King
08-12-07, 08:16 PM Nope didn't know of it. I just made these from the norse mythology. I just stole the name.....nothing else.

So it just applies to weapons? Like monkey grip?

Vice Versa. It's the same as Powerful Build without the use of Large Weapons.

This instead of powerful build will make it a bit easier to keep it LA +0.
TheDarkPrince
08-12-07, 11:17 PM What's the point of cross-posting this race in the Monster Contest in the Monsters' Lair section ?

I wanted to see if it would win. It was just for kicks. If you want me to remove it for any reason, just PM me.
TheDarkPrince
08-12-07, 11:17 PM Vice Versa. It's the same as Powerful Build without the use of Large Weapons.

This instead of powerful build will make it a bit easier to keep it LA +0.

Ok, I think I'll change it then. Thanks.

Cheers! :D
MaverickWolf
09-02-07, 10:57 AM What of the Jotun-Ir that are mentioned? Are they going to be a separate race, or perhaps a 5-level racial class along the lines of racial paragons? Maybe by the end of it they can be Large size AND capable of wielding oversized weapons (like their Titan ancestors before them).
AtsuiShoto
09-03-07, 10:39 AM -4 Dex and -2 Charisma sound about right, on account of every racial feature being highly synergistic toward the Barbarian class.
TheDarkPrince
09-03-07, 03:45 PM Actually, that's not a bad idea at all......I don't know how paragon classes work really, but I love the idea of a Jotun-Ir racial class. Any help in creating it would be appreciated.

Thanks, Cheers! :D
MaverickWolf
09-10-07, 04:32 PM OK, here's my take on the whole thing (including the racial class). I have modified a few things now that I've read through it again, but will include reasons why (and, of course, you're welcome to take it as you like anyway).

* +2 Strength, +2 Constitution, -4 Dexterity, -2 Charisma: Jotun are physically powerful and healthy, but their size often proves restrictive in movement. Their ways are foreign to most creatures, making it difficult for them to interact.
AtsuiShoto's suggestion makes a lot of sense to me, and I think the -4 to Dex (and the additional drawbacks of the new type) are enough to just give them powerful build.
* Medium size
* Humanoid (Planetouched, Human) - As a planetouched humanoid, a Jotun is susceptible to spells that target humanoids and outsiders. Charm person works against them, and so does banishment. The powerful blood of the titans shows itself in their inherently otherworldly nature, but they are still part human, and suffer accordingly.
This is a change that I feel far better fits. As part human/part titan, the giant type simply doesn't show up in a Jotun's blood. However, the Outsider blood is potent, and its effect can carry through for countless generations.
* Powerful Build:The physical stature of Jotuns lets them function in many ways as if they were one size category larger. Whenever a Jotun is subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for an opposed check (such as during grapple checks, bull rush attempts, and trip attempts), the Jotun is treated as one size larger if doing so is advantageous to him. A Jotun is also considered to be one size larger when determining whether a creature’s special attacks based on size (such as improved grab or swallow whole) can affect him. A Jotun can use weapons designed for a creature one size larger without penalty. However, his space and reach remain those of a creature of his actual size. The benefits of this racial trait stack with the effects of powers, abilities, and spells that change the subject’s size category.
Reasons for this change are already mentioned above. I don't think Powerful Build should warrant a +1 LA on its own in the first place, but I think this race has enough drawbacks to allow this one way or the other.
* Speed: Jotun base land speed is 30 feet. However, Jotun can move this speed while wearing medium armor or when carrying a medium load. This ability does not allow them to bypass restrictions on class features that only function in light or no armor and when unencumbered.
Just to avoid questions from newer players who aren't used to certain rules, I wanted to call out that class feature restrictions remain.
* Darkvision: Jotun have darkvision out to 60 feet.
Outsiders have darkvision, not low-light vision, so I think this fits better.
* Automatic Language: Common, Jotun-Bur. Bonus Language: Abyssal, Celestial, Draconic, Dwarven, and Giant.
* Favored Class: Barbarian. The wild passion of the Titans runs through a Jotun's blood, lending itself well to the unbridled fury of a raging barbarian.
I just like a little flavor, so I added some text.

Jotun-Ir
Among the Jotun, whose society revolves around strength, certain powerful Jotun reach a pinnacle that many simply cannot reach. These exemplars of Jotun society are referred to as the Jotun-Ir, or Titan-blessed, Jotun who have embraced their heritage and learned to make maximum use of its strength.

The Jotun-Ir class may only be taken by Jotuns. It is similar to the racial paragon classes found in Unearthed Arcana, but is 5 levels instead of 3.

Class Skills
A Jotun-Ir's class skills are Climb, Craft, Intimidate, Jump, Profession, Survival, and Swim.
Skill Points: A Jotun-Ir receives 4 + Int mod skill points per level (x4 at 1st level).

Class Features
Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: A Jotun-Ir with no other class levels is proficient in all simple weapons, light and medium armor, and shields. As he progresses through the class and unlocks the hidden knowledge within his blood, he is granted further insight into the secrets of combat. At 3rd level, he gains proficiency with all martial weapons and heavy armor.
Spell Avoidance: Some of his ancestors' inherent resistance to spells toughens a Jotun-Ir. He gains a +1 bonus on saves versus spells that only affect a single target. This increases to +2 at 4th level.
Outsider's Presence: A Jotun-Ir's strong connections to his ancestor's is evident to all. He gains a +2 bonus to Charisma at 2nd level.
Unhindered Movement: Beginning at 3rd level, a Jotun-Ir may move at full speed even when wearing heavy armor or carrying a heavy load.
Ancestral Spells: A good or neutral Jotun-Ir of 4th level or higher gains the ability to cast daylight as the spell 1/day. An evil Jotun-Ir instead casts deeper darkness. His caster level is equal to 1/2 his character level.
Ancestral Size: At 5th level, a Jotun-Ir comes into the full power of his ancestral heritage. He grows to Large-size, gaining the space and natural reach of a Large creature. He also applies all stat changes for changing size. (This is not actually a sudden change. A Jotun-Ir slows increases in size as he grows in level. He has finally reached full potential upon reaching 5th level in the Jotun-Ir racial class.)

The Jotun-Ir probably needs some work, but that's why there's lots of people on the boards, after all.
TheDarkPrince
09-12-07, 11:39 PM I agree with the Outsider point of view, but where would they be banished to? I think Native Outsider would be ok though.

-4 Dex......hmmmm....as a balancing factor for Powerful build, I would see that working, but I just don't like them being that clumsy.....I mean, they are a race of near half-titans, who are not clumsy (maybe even graceful....), not lumbering giants.

Good job with the Jotun-Ir, I'll read more of it later.

Thank you, Cheers! :D
FireCadetsGirl
09-13-07, 11:59 PM it looks good, and by it, i mean you.:thumbsup:
TheDarkPrince
09-14-07, 12:32 AM Thanks, babe.
Istesrillith
11-28-07, 01:30 AM I like this race! The racial class is nice, but I think it needs work. First, shouldn't they get a strength boost? They do get the large size at 5th level, but personally, I'd rather have the powerful build. It has none of the penalties. Unless they stack? That seems unlikely though. The only benefit is that monkey grip stacks with large size and not powerful build. d8 HD I assume as well? Also could you put it in a table? Other than that very nice!
Istesrillith
11-30-07, 03:37 AM Ok, I found a few things that need fixing with the Paragon class. First are they Giants, Humanoids or Native Outsiders? The reason I ask is that both Giants and Outsiders get proficiency with all simple and martial weapons. You have it as a planetouched, which would make it a native outsider so they don't need the weapon proficiencies. This next thing just bugs me a little, the unhindered movement ability, most of them are going to be barbarians, and fast movement won't work with that. Nor will it work with the race's other speed ability with medium armor. What's the point of having it then? This is a good class, but I'm concerned about how much more powerful it is than all of the other paragon classes.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
TheDarkPrince 08-10-07, 07:31 PM	http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/wrath/images/artwork/ss5-hires.jpg The Jotun are an ancient race. They are Half-Giants derived from the couplings of Humans, and the very first Titans. For centuries the Jotun and Titans were equals, although the Titans viewed them more as younger siblings or sometimes even as pets to be cared for. But when the war between the Titans and the Gods started, the Jotun were used by both sides as fodder. With ferocious strength, and savage cunning, the Jotun formed the elites of many an army. But on the battlefield, the Jotun saw that the slaughter they brought to each other was disgusting, so they left both the Gods and the Titans to their petty wars, and hid in the most remote corners of the planet, not to be seen again for countless millennia. Personality: Jotun are much like dwarves, slow to jest, laugh, or trust. But they are honorable and doggedly loyal to those who earn their friendship. Jotun value honor and physical prowess above all else, but they also respect the value of sound tactics. Their society is based around "The Hunt", a philisophical and moral/religious ideal. (See religion). Physical Description: Jotun are very large creatures, with most standing at 7 to 8 feet, weighing up to 600 pounds, with females being only slightly smaller and lighter than males. The Jotun-Ir, or Titan Blessed, are even bigger, reaching heights of 10 to 12 feet tall. Jotun mature slowly, reaching adulthood at 140, and many live to be longer than 900 years old. Relations: Jotun get along well with dwarves, who they share much in common with. Gnomes and Jotun never form lasting friendships, but they are rarely known to be at odds, and many Jotun view them as miniature dwarves. Humans are viewed as a young race, with much potential, yet Jotun see their exuberence and sponteniety as more hazardous than beneficial, and treat humans as slightly explosive teddy bears. Halflings have no special bond with Jotun, and are treated on a more individual bases, same with elves. Alignment: Jotun are honorable, and follow the rules of the Hunt, so many are lawful, but an equal amount are chaotic, reveling in the more random aspects that the hunt can inspire and create. Most Jotun are good, with a smaller amount being neutral, and a very small percentage being evil. Most, if not all, evil Jotun are exiled, mainly because they refuse to follow the rules of the hunt. Lands: Most Jotun live in the far north, or far south, naturally enjoying and thriving in even the coldest of temperatures. Jotun outside of their natural environment are either on The Hunt, adventuring, or are exiles (Jotun-Nout). Religion: Jotun culture revolves around the concept of the Hunt. It is a philosophy claiming that only the strong thrive, yet others depend on the strong to survive. Jotun hunt creatures the world over in order to prove their strength to their clans, and to gain other rewards (only a Jotun who has Hunted may look for a mate, this goes for males and females.) No ranged combat outside of the targets vision range. (Although ranged combat from behind is allowed, no ranged combat from the top of a crennalated wall or hidden cubby on a cliff face....) If a quarry escapes or betters the Hunter, the quarry is free to leave, and is to be left alone. Escaped prey can only be freed if no trail can be found. No Hunter may prolong the death of a prey through torture, although poison is allowed. Any helpless (i.e. paralyzed, unconcious, etc.) prey must be put to a quick death, not left to suffer. Prey that has been defeated cannot be defiled in any way, although a small token such as an ear, finger, tusk, etc. may be taken as a totem trophy. Language: Jotun speak Jotun-Bur, but many also learn to speak Dwarf, Common, and Giant. Adventurers: Jotun adventurers are either on the Hunt, or given leave by the Clan Chief to wonder in order to experience the world and bring knowledge to the clan. Many Jotun who are allowed to leave on these terms often include Hunts into their adventures. Racial Traits +2 Strength, +2 Constitution, -2 Dexterity, -4 Charisma: Jotun are physically powerful and healthy, but not very deft, and their ways are alien and they're really BIG :eek: ! Jotun are of the Giant race, and count as such for items, spells, etc. Jotunbrud:The physical stature of Jotun lets them function in many ways as if they were one size category larger. Whenever a Jotun is subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for an opposed check (such as during grapple checks, bull rush attempts, and trip attempts), the Jotun is treated as one size larger if doing so is advantageous to him. A Jotun is also considered to be one size larger when determining whether a creature’s special attacks based on size (such as improved grab or swallow whole) can affect him. However, his space and reach remain those of a creature of his actual size. The benefits of this racial trait stack with the effects of powers, abilities, and spells that change the subject’s size category. Speed:Jotun base land speed is 30 feet. However, Jotun can move this speed while wearing medium armor or when carrying a medium load. Low-Light Vision: Jotun can see three times as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. Favored Class: Barbarian. P.E.A.C.H!! Thanks, Cheers! :D
Jaxgaret 08-10-07, 07:38 PM	7'6"-8'6" and 600 pounds = Large. They need to be shorter on average, say 7'-8' tall to be Medium w/ Powerful Build.
TheDarkPrince 08-10-07, 07:43 PM	ok. Thanks, that was one of the things I was worrying about. Cheers! :D
Red_Decker 08-10-07, 07:45 PM	[U]As an aside: I never really liked the Half-Giants presented in the Psionics books. I mean, why would a Giant, with little or no psionic power, spawn a child with psionic gifts? because that's how they were in Dark Sun... I thought that answer was obvious. I'm fairly certain that they would still be a +1 LA due to the mismatched stats. Perhaps if you added another negative to an ability, most likely Cha since you said similar to dwarves. And what type of creature are they? Humanoid, Giant, abberation? gotta spell it out. http://www.geocities.com/customsmiliesbyswordmaster/inthered.txt
Angel Black 08-10-07, 10:22 PM	Racial Traits +2 Strength, +2 Constitution, -2 Dexterity: Jotun are physically powerful and healthy, but not very deft.\ Medium: As Medium creatures, Jotun have no bonuses or penalties do to their size. Powerful Build:The physical stature of Jotun lets them function in many ways as if they were one size category larger. Whenever a Jotun is subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for an opposed check (such as during grapple checks, bull rush attempts, and trip attempts), the Jotun is treated as one size larger if doing so is advantageous to him. A Jotun is also considered to be one size larger when determining whether a creature’s special attacks based on size (such as improved grab or swallow whole) can affect him. A Jotun can use weapons designed for a creature one size larger without penalty. However, his space and reach remain those of a creature of his actual size. The benefits of this racial trait stack with the effects of powers, abilities, and spells that change the subject’s size category. Speed:Jotun base land speed is 30 feet. However, Jotun can move this speed while wearing medium armor or when carrying a medium load. Low-Light Vision: Jotun can see three times as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. Favored Class: Barbarian. P.E.A.C.H!! Thanks, Cheers! :D Let's see.. +2 Strength: ability bonus (2.5 points) +2 Constitution: ability bonus (1.25 points) -2 Dexterity : ability bonus (1.25 points) Powerful Build (2 points) Speed: no penalty by medium armour or load (0.8 point) Low-Light Vision (0.6 point) Favored Class: Barbarian. 1 point = 1 good feat. * Powerful build is like an enhanced "monkey grip" * Lowlight vision is a kind of "great but not that great" advantanges. To lower the LA, I would remove the Powerful Build, and i woud give "monkey grip" as bonus feat, and I would add: Special: can take Powerful Build as one of his bonus feats with a prerequisite of 3 HD.
TheDarkPrince 08-11-07, 12:08 AM	Whats with the points? Yeah I'll add a charisma penalty. I never played Dark Sun, so I wouldn't know. Sorry. Should I add the LA on top of the Charisma penalty, or make the penalty heftly enough (-4?) that LA isn't needed? They're giants, I'll add that in, sorry. Thanks, Cheers! :D
Jaxgaret 08-11-07, 03:25 AM	Yeah I'll add a charisma penalty. I never played Dark Sun, so I wouldn't know. Sorry. Should I add the LA on top of the Charisma penalty, or make the penalty heftly enough (-4?) that LA isn't needed? I think you would be better off with +2 Str +2 Con -4 Dex -2 Cha. That way the physical stats add up to +0. With only LLV and Powerful Build as racial features and a total negative ability mod, it would probably be balanced at LA+0. You might need to drop the Cha to -4 as well, but I doubt it. It seems fine to me as I detailed above.
TheDarkPrince 08-11-07, 11:03 PM	Thanks. What about the fluff? Is it ok? Cheesy? Too obviously made up "on the spot?"
Jaxgaret 08-12-07, 04:24 PM	I previously did not see that they also get normal movement in Medium Armor. I would say that you should drop both Dex and Cha to -4 to compensate for all of their benefits if you want it to be LA+0.
Unholy_King 08-12-07, 04:49 PM	Perhaps swap Powerful Build with Jotunbhrand (sp). It's the same thing as powerful Build except you cant use large weapons.
Jaxgaret 08-12-07, 05:53 PM	Jotunbhrand (sp) Jotunbrud. I assumed the OP knew of the existence of this feat, from their naming of the race Jotun. But perhaps they don't know if it?
TheDarkPrince 08-12-07, 07:01 PM	Nope didn't know of it. I just made these from the norse mythology. I just stole the name.....nothing else. So it just applies to weapons? Like monkey grip?
Korone 08-12-07, 07:15 PM	What's the point of cross-posting this race in the Monster Contest in the Monsters' Lair section ?
Seldriss 08-12-07, 07:29 PM	I would recommend these modifications : Large Humanoid (Giant) Str +4, Dex -2, Con +2 Large size, Speed 30 Natural Armor Class +2 Resistance to Cold 10 2 Giant Hit Dice, 2d8, BAB+1, For +3, Ref +0, Will +0 Simple & martial weapons, light armors & shields Languages : Common, Giant LA+2
Unholy_King 08-12-07, 08:16 PM	Nope didn't know of it. I just made these from the norse mythology. I just stole the name.....nothing else. So it just applies to weapons? Like monkey grip? Vice Versa. It's the same as Powerful Build without the use of Large Weapons. This instead of powerful build will make it a bit easier to keep it LA +0.
TheDarkPrince 08-12-07, 11:17 PM	What's the point of cross-posting this race in the Monster Contest in the Monsters' Lair section ? I wanted to see if it would win. It was just for kicks. If you want me to remove it for any reason, just PM me.
TheDarkPrince 08-12-07, 11:17 PM	Vice Versa. It's the same as Powerful Build without the use of Large Weapons. This instead of powerful build will make it a bit easier to keep it LA +0. Ok, I think I'll change it then. Thanks. Cheers! :D
MaverickWolf 09-02-07, 10:57 AM	What of the Jotun-Ir that are mentioned? Are they going to be a separate race, or perhaps a 5-level racial class along the lines of racial paragons? Maybe by the end of it they can be Large size AND capable of wielding oversized weapons (like their Titan ancestors before them).
AtsuiShoto 09-03-07, 10:39 AM	-4 Dex and -2 Charisma sound about right, on account of every racial feature being highly synergistic toward the Barbarian class.
TheDarkPrince 09-03-07, 03:45 PM	Actually, that's not a bad idea at all......I don't know how paragon classes work really, but I love the idea of a Jotun-Ir racial class. Any help in creating it would be appreciated. Thanks, Cheers! :D
MaverickWolf 09-10-07, 04:32 PM	OK, here's my take on the whole thing (including the racial class). I have modified a few things now that I've read through it again, but will include reasons why (and, of course, you're welcome to take it as you like anyway). * +2 Strength, +2 Constitution, -4 Dexterity, -2 Charisma: Jotun are physically powerful and healthy, but their size often proves restrictive in movement. Their ways are foreign to most creatures, making it difficult for them to interact. AtsuiShoto's suggestion makes a lot of sense to me, and I think the -4 to Dex (and the additional drawbacks of the new type) are enough to just give them powerful build. * Medium size * Humanoid (Planetouched, Human) - As a planetouched humanoid, a Jotun is susceptible to spells that target humanoids and outsiders. Charm person works against them, and so does banishment. The powerful blood of the titans shows itself in their inherently otherworldly nature, but they are still part human, and suffer accordingly. This is a change that I feel far better fits. As part human/part titan, the giant type simply doesn't show up in a Jotun's blood. However, the Outsider blood is potent, and its effect can carry through for countless generations. * Powerful Build:The physical stature of Jotuns lets them function in many ways as if they were one size category larger. Whenever a Jotun is subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for an opposed check (such as during grapple checks, bull rush attempts, and trip attempts), the Jotun is treated as one size larger if doing so is advantageous to him. A Jotun is also considered to be one size larger when determining whether a creature’s special attacks based on size (such as improved grab or swallow whole) can affect him. A Jotun can use weapons designed for a creature one size larger without penalty. However, his space and reach remain those of a creature of his actual size. The benefits of this racial trait stack with the effects of powers, abilities, and spells that change the subject’s size category. Reasons for this change are already mentioned above. I don't think Powerful Build should warrant a +1 LA on its own in the first place, but I think this race has enough drawbacks to allow this one way or the other. * Speed: Jotun base land speed is 30 feet. However, Jotun can move this speed while wearing medium armor or when carrying a medium load. This ability does not allow them to bypass restrictions on class features that only function in light or no armor and when unencumbered. Just to avoid questions from newer players who aren't used to certain rules, I wanted to call out that class feature restrictions remain. * Darkvision: Jotun have darkvision out to 60 feet. Outsiders have darkvision, not low-light vision, so I think this fits better. * Automatic Language: Common, Jotun-Bur. Bonus Language: Abyssal, Celestial, Draconic, Dwarven, and Giant. * Favored Class: Barbarian. The wild passion of the Titans runs through a Jotun's blood, lending itself well to the unbridled fury of a raging barbarian. I just like a little flavor, so I added some text. Jotun-Ir Among the Jotun, whose society revolves around strength, certain powerful Jotun reach a pinnacle that many simply cannot reach. These exemplars of Jotun society are referred to as the Jotun-Ir, or Titan-blessed, Jotun who have embraced their heritage and learned to make maximum use of its strength. The Jotun-Ir class may only be taken by Jotuns. It is similar to the racial paragon classes found in Unearthed Arcana, but is 5 levels instead of 3. Class Skills A Jotun-Ir's class skills are Climb, Craft, Intimidate, Jump, Profession, Survival, and Swim. Skill Points: A Jotun-Ir receives 4 + Int mod skill points per level (x4 at 1st level). Class Features Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: A Jotun-Ir with no other class levels is proficient in all simple weapons, light and medium armor, and shields. As he progresses through the class and unlocks the hidden knowledge within his blood, he is granted further insight into the secrets of combat. At 3rd level, he gains proficiency with all martial weapons and heavy armor. Spell Avoidance: Some of his ancestors' inherent resistance to spells toughens a Jotun-Ir. He gains a +1 bonus on saves versus spells that only affect a single target. This increases to +2 at 4th level. Outsider's Presence: A Jotun-Ir's strong connections to his ancestor's is evident to all. He gains a +2 bonus to Charisma at 2nd level. Unhindered Movement: Beginning at 3rd level, a Jotun-Ir may move at full speed even when wearing heavy armor or carrying a heavy load. Ancestral Spells: A good or neutral Jotun-Ir of 4th level or higher gains the ability to cast daylight as the spell 1/day. An evil Jotun-Ir instead casts deeper darkness. His caster level is equal to 1/2 his character level. Ancestral Size: At 5th level, a Jotun-Ir comes into the full power of his ancestral heritage. He grows to Large-size, gaining the space and natural reach of a Large creature. He also applies all stat changes for changing size. (This is not actually a sudden change. A Jotun-Ir slows increases in size as he grows in level. He has finally reached full potential upon reaching 5th level in the Jotun-Ir racial class.) The Jotun-Ir probably needs some work, but that's why there's lots of people on the boards, after all.
TheDarkPrince 09-12-07, 11:39 PM	I agree with the Outsider point of view, but where would they be banished to? I think Native Outsider would be ok though. -4 Dex......hmmmm....as a balancing factor for Powerful build, I would see that working, but I just don't like them being that clumsy.....I mean, they are a race of near half-titans, who are not clumsy (maybe even graceful....), not lumbering giants. Good job with the Jotun-Ir, I'll read more of it later. Thank you, Cheers! :D
FireCadetsGirl 09-13-07, 11:59 PM	it looks good, and by it, i mean you.:thumbsup:
TheDarkPrince 09-14-07, 12:32 AM	Thanks, babe.
Istesrillith 11-28-07, 01:30 AM	I like this race! The racial class is nice, but I think it needs work. First, shouldn't they get a strength boost? They do get the large size at 5th level, but personally, I'd rather have the powerful build. It has none of the penalties. Unless they stack? That seems unlikely though. The only benefit is that monkey grip stacks with large size and not powerful build. d8 HD I assume as well? Also could you put it in a table? Other than that very nice!
Istesrillith 11-30-07, 03:37 AM	Ok, I found a few things that need fixing with the Paragon class. First are they Giants, Humanoids or Native Outsiders? The reason I ask is that both Giants and Outsiders get proficiency with all simple and martial weapons. You have it as a planetouched, which would make it a native outsider so they don't need the weapon proficiencies. This next thing just bugs me a little, the unhindered movement ability, most of them are going to be barbarians, and fast movement won't work with that. Nor will it work with the race's other speed ability with medium armor. What's the point of having it then? This is a good class, but I'm concerned about how much more powerful it is than all of the other paragon classes.