| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
|---|---|
| Needle08-17-07, 03:21 AM | Come on folks, who's with me.. I have seen a lot of posts about it.. but lets get this in a thread title name and make us noticed! Make Kobolds a core race in 4th edition! :D |
| gullas08-17-07, 06:09 AM | I copy that;) |
| Naderion08-17-07, 06:21 AM | I've come to think I just missed something and this is just a popular running gag. |
| Shaggy_Shaggs08-17-07, 06:22 AM | Nah... kobolds are too damned good as belligerent and numerous enemies. Same deal with goblins. People who want to play those races are going to play them regardless of whether they're in the PHB, but everyone should experience the sheer horror of a well-executed trip through a kobold-trapped mine or attack of the goblin worg cavalry, even if they got into the game after the advent of 4th Edition. |
| Naderion08-17-07, 06:34 AM | Making kobolds a core pc-race would make them into good guys in the eyes of new or casual players and probably a bit rediculous, like it's happening to halflinges or gnomes quite often. |
| Draxo08-17-07, 06:47 AM | I for one want to see Kobolds as a core race, not as a joke at all. I dont believe it would make them have to be good at all: and i see them as far more appreciated and playable than half orcs or gnomes. Not only that, but the lore given to them in RotD is wonderful and captured the imagination! If they get a little extra writing to make them a bit more good in the eyes of the community, i dont mind as much, as long as they remain visually as they are. If something like a gnome (that in my experience, a majority share of the community dont appreciate or want) gets added, while something that far more people appreciate like the Kobold does not, I have to ask why they are getting added at all. The reason I see adding Kobolds as a core race as so important, is because races and racial abilities are going to be very important in how the game works now with 4e, with the level progression etc. Since so many people play them / want to play them, they're not going to be playable easily now. Ad frankly, I dont want to have to wait 7 years for a splatbook just to play. |
| Elzaban the Ethereal08-17-07, 09:18 AM | Look at Angband - they've had Kobolds as a playable race in the core game for several versions now. I'm hoping they'll add Kobolds or Goblins to the core races, not just because they're awesome, but because the core races needs something that isn't all goody-goody. Aside from half-orcs, the core races pretty much consist of the "goodly races". Give new players a decent chance to start off with someone who isn't stereotypically goody two-shoes, with a race that has some reputation for being sneaky bastards. |
| Spikes01k08-17-07, 09:20 AM | I have already said what I did about these guys as core. They won't because putting a dark front runner. It will get them less money, or even get the boycotted by extremist fundamentalists, which in turn will get them bad publicity. |
| Ecalsneerg08-17-07, 09:33 AM | I have already said what I did about these guys as core. They won't because putting a dark front runner. It will get them less money, or even get the boycotted by extremist fundamentalists, which in turn will get them bad publicity. "Cute little lizard things are proof that D&D is evil. Now, kids, stop playing D&D. In my day, we had plastic dinosaurs." |
| Spikes01k08-17-07, 09:56 AM | "Cute little lizard things are proof that D&D is evil. Now, kids, stop playing D&D. In my day, we had plastic dinosaurs." They may not say anything, it doesn't matter. I saw a number of mothers that wouldn't buy Yu-Gi-Oh cards because the people on front of the cards covers were not smiling, it looked "too serious". The next thing I knew, amazingly, the next set of cards had all the characters on there, and they all looked very serious but all had this sadistic grin on, one guess which cards sold more. |
| Sanmateo08-17-07, 09:58 AM | Currently running an all-Kobold group of three through the Age of Worms adventure path. Let me give you a moment to fully absorb what I just said... ...okay, now. Having said that let me also say I thought it was a joke when my players told me they wanted to do this. Two campaigns back they ran an all-Halfling group (this was when we first got 3.5, our first campaign actually). At the time it was just one of those things we always meant to do and with it being our first campaign, getting to know the rules and whatnot, it seemed like a good idea. Because, if they died so what, right? Of course the campaign ended up going all the way to 12th level before they finally got side-tracked. So, the players hit me with the all-Kobold idea and I figure "It's just a lark, right? They'll die off and the players will have a little laugh, reroll half-orc barbarians and keep on truckin'". Well, no. Seems they're dead set on getting through the whole adventure path/campaign with nothing but Kobolds. So, then, I figured "Well, their challenging themselves. Yeah, it's a challenge." I can dig that, so I go along with it. Here's the thing: Just finished the "Encounter at Blackwell Keep" Wednesday night. By this time we've lost only one, Gutter the Kobold Barbarian (at the hands of the Ebon Aspect in "The Three Faces of Evil"). The Sorcerer has just gone Sorcerer/Alienist and we have a Dragon Shaman (replacing Gutter) and a Fighter/Thief. Thirty minutes into the game they get through all the role-playing and messing around and reach the keep. There are thirty Lizard Folk all around it, in bands of five/six, laying siege to the place. One band of five, directly in front of my three little 2' tall Kobold adventurers, staking out a spot near the corral/stockade. What do my folks do? Well, they decided to stage hit and run attacks on that first group, then run and hide in the hills (using the Hide skills they've all been dumping skill points in) before making another raid...etc... They hit the first group, surprised themselves by wiping them out, then hid in the stockaded corral since they were there anyway. Lizard Folk come to investigate all the ruckus and one of them spots a member of the team so another fight breaks out... ....long story short... ...the team ended up making a stand right outside the corral and single-handedly mopped the floor with 30 Lizard Folk (or at least 20 plus the leader, causing them to rout). After that they were bold and did the same thing to the Lizard Folk lair. Absolutely wiped it out. Killed everyone in there but the shaman, even the little mutant Kobolds near the egg chamber when they refused to stand down. How? Take a closer look... Kobold: — –4 Strength, +2 Dexterity, –2 Constitution. —Small size: +1 bonus to Armor Class, +1 bonus on attack rolls, +4 bonus on Hide checks, –4 penalty on grapple checks, lifting and carrying limits 3/4 those of Medium characters. —A kobold’s base land speed is 30 feet. —Darkvision out to 60 feet. —Racial Skills: A kobold character has a +2 racial bonus on Craft (trapmaking), Profession (miner), and Search checks. —Racial Feats: A kobold character gains feats according to its character class. — +1 natural armor bonus. —Special Qualities (see above): Light sensitivity. —Automatic Languages: Draconic. Bonus Languages: Common, Undercommon. —Favored Class: Sorcerer. —Level adjustment +0. Add some armor to this (+1 for small size, +1 natural armor) , a bracer +1, an amulet of natural armor +1, the Sorcerer's Mage Armor (+4), a Dexterity of, say, 14 (+2). That's +10. The Dragon Shaman's +1 Breastplate is +6. That's AC 26. The Fighter/Thief in a +1 Chain Shirt (and Dex 16). That's AC 26. Meanwhile the Sorcerer's got a couple of Pseudonatural Bisons running around goring Lizard Folk to bloody bits. And that's after the Fighter/Thief with her +5 to Hide checks and maxed Hide and Move Silently skills (and Invisibility from the Sorcerer) waltzed through the whole complex and practically mapped it out before they went in). The Lizard Folk only had a chance of hitting them on a natural 20. And they tried every dirty trick in the book. Aiding, flanking, targeting the sorcerer. They even tried overwhelming them to set a group-grapple (which would actually have worked very, very well with their small size) but the Kobolds just bottlenecked them in the doorway and slaughtered them. I even upped the lieutenant and the Lizard Folk king to Draconic types, trying desperately to scale the adventure a bit before it was all over. They cut them down. In other words...they played like Kobolds. And they kicked ass. Make Kobolds a core race? Absolutely not! They are sooo unbalanced. :D |
| Ecalsneerg08-17-07, 10:08 AM | They may not say anything, it doesn't matter. I saw a number of mothers that wouldn't buy Yu-Gi-Oh cards because the people on front of the cards covers were not smiling, it looked "too serious". The next thing I knew, amazingly, the next set of cards had all the characters on there, and they all looked very serious but all had this sadistic grin on, one guess which cards sold more. The average demographic for Yu-Gi-Oh players is 12-year-olds kids (who inexplicably understand the rules). The average demographic for D&D is people of college age or older. You also made the point of it being on the front of the cards. Firstly, Races of the Dragon to my knowledge didn't undersell. It had kobolds on the cover. In any case, mothers will not look through the book in-depth, and the biggest pictures in the current PHB are those with the biggest market appeal. Kbolds, for all their popularity, come under 'cult status', so would likely have few images within the book, likely evading notice. |
| Ohtar Turinson08-17-07, 10:31 AM | The average demographic for Yu-Gi-Oh players is 12-year-olds kids (who inexplicably understand the rules). The average demographic for D&D is people of college age or older. Are you sure about that? It's certainly the demographic which use the boards, but I suspect that high schoolers make a very large segment of the population of players even today. More on topic: I hope the little lizard rat dogs don't become a core player race, if only to spite the player who tried to play one in my game and used a damn squeeky voice. I doubt it will happen though- most players do seem to stick with the "shining paragon" type race or the "angsty antihero" type players. Kobolds are generally not seen as either. |
| Dragao_das_Serras08-17-07, 10:44 AM | I love playing kobolds, and I hope they are never a core race. They don't need to be core--they're just fine as they are. Let's leave the core races alone and just make sure 4E keeps kobolds as a good, playable race. |
| Ecalsneerg08-17-07, 10:44 AM | Are you sure about that? It's certainly the demographic which use the boards, but I suspect that high schoolers make a very large segment of the population of players even today. Well, I suppose. But, if by high school, your mother still dictates your (legal) hobbies, you're in trouble. The intention I tried, and failed, to get across, was that the average D&D player has progressed beyond the point where he relies on his parents to buy his things for him, and thus have input in the purchase, and is of age to at least get a part-time job like a paper round. |
| Fox Reeveheart08-17-07, 10:58 AM | DARN IT! YOU BEAT ME TO IT! I WAS GOING TO MAKE A KOBOLD CORE RACE PETITION THREAD >_<!!!!! TODAY! A big reason they should be core..... I'm not sure what they mean by "core only races" when asking about what races are allowed in a campaign. Would that mean PHB only as in core or also allowing MM? I would like it so when they say "core races only" I can look in my PHB and load up my kobold. I want to play him in EVERY campaign >_> YAY KOBOLDS and if they change how they look the wizards staff will wake up in a tub of ice and well.... you know the rest. We like our unthreatening looking lizard men. |
| Lawlicron08-17-07, 11:33 AM | I don't really play Kobolds a lot but I'd like to seem them core. |
| Stardust08-17-07, 12:10 PM | Add some armor to this (+1 for small size, +1 natural armor) , a bracer +1, an amulet of natural armor +1, the Sorcerer's Mage Armor (+4), a Dexterity of, say, 14 (+2). That's +10. The Dragon Shaman's +1 Breastplate is +6. That's AC 26. The Fighter/Thief in a +1 Chain Shirt (and Dex 16). That's AC 26. Hang on, you had bracers of armor, mage armor and actual armor all stacking? You know that's just not how it works, right? They all give the same bonus (armor bonus), so do not stack. You should have actually had: +1 size +2 natural +2 dex for a mighty +5 and then: Bracers +1 (for a total +6 = AC16) OR Mage Armor +4 (for a total +9 = AC19) OR Armor granting +6 (for a total +11 = AC21) The Lizard Folk only had a chance of hitting them on a natural 20. And they tried every dirty trick in the book. They'd have been 25% more likely to hit if the kobolds played by the same rules they did. They clearly didn't try the 'adding bonuses that don't stack' trick. I can't believe that not one of your players or you as the DM realised this. Or they realised it and failed to tell you. Absolutely not! They are sooo unbalanced. :D So is anything that ignores the rules :P I don't mean to sound offensive when I say this, but it's probably a good idea to learn the basic rules before you start mixing things up with non-standard races and other variants. Of course, if I've misunderstood you, my apologies, but it seems that most of your post focuses on the benefits of the race, when really, any creature can get an unfair advantage from taking advantage of oversights in the rules. |
| celestialkin08-17-07, 12:13 PM | I support this. It is finally time for the Kobolds to reign supreme! Bow down before your new reptilian masters!:evillaugh |
| Waldo_di08-17-07, 01:53 PM | Kobolds are good for two things 1. Making Traps 2. Fried Lizard If it wasn't for those riducolous splat books on kobolds they'd be at where they should be in someone's stomach. |
| Shaggy_Shaggs08-17-07, 02:02 PM | Kobolds are good for two things 1. Making Traps 2. Fried Lizard If it wasn't for those riducolous splat books on kobolds they'd be at where they should be in someone's stomach.Spoken like someone that knows squat about playing a low-powered race to its strengths. I'm not a fan of the splats myself, but they aren't needed. Kobolds and goblins can both be quite potent without racial substitution levels, templates and other tailor-made crap. One DM has cursed me more than once for my goblin ranger/rogue that he couldn't significantly damage if his DM seat depended upon it. :D |
| Azuredragon08-17-07, 02:03 PM | Make Kobolds a core race in 4th edition! :D I'm with you! :D One kobold race to rule them all... Maybe a campaign setting with kobolds as the supreme race and humans living as their slaves? :P |
| Sanmateo08-17-07, 02:04 PM | Hang on, you had bracers of armor, mage armor and actual armor all stacking? You know that's just not how it works, right?...Of course, if I've misunderstood you, my apologies, but it seems that most of your post focuses on the benefits of the race, when really, any creature can get an unfair advantage from taking advantage of oversights in the rules. You ever walk into a room and have someone hiding inside the door, completely out of the blue, totally unexpectedly, smack you in the face with a pillow? That happened to me once. Kind of the same feeling when I read this. I mean I'm prone to forget things, miss things or be generally absent minded but I cannot believe I didn't notice this. Kinda ticks me off, too. :mad: Thanks, Stardust, for being kind enough to point out the obvious. I'm going to go flog my players now for taking advantage of a doddering old DM's mental instabilities. Seriously, I'm prone to painful stupidity from time to time but then they know that. Or better yet...I'll just not say anything until they're next fight, when they're relying on that monstrous AC and didn't get a chance to sell those useless extra gadgets. :D |
| celestialkin08-17-07, 02:07 PM | Kobolds are good for two things 1. Making Traps 2. Fried Lizard If it wasn't for those riducolous splat books on kobolds they'd be at where they should be in someone's stomach. Dude. How could you eat something so cute? Their bodies are even chibi like (big heads on tiny cute bodies). |
| Shaggy_Shaggs08-17-07, 02:11 PM | Hey, when in doubt, cheat. :devil: Isn't that just like a kobold anyway? The late great Sam Clemmens said anything worth fighting for is worth fighting dirty for. Note: I don't actually condone player cheating. I just find the circumstances amusing. |
| kyros_the_spawnslayer08-17-07, 02:25 PM | I say let the Age of the Kobold begin...switch out gnomes for them cause in all the time I have played no one has played a gnome in a group...I clearly remember in my first D&D group one of the players had just beheaded a sleeping shop keeper and wrote on the wall in gnomish, in the man's blood, that they did it. And not only do I want kobolds I want Lizardfolk...its time for the Scalies to reign supereme. |
| Lazigothi08-17-07, 03:07 PM | I think it would be refreshing to reconfigure core races in general. The original "human, elf, dwarf, hobbit . . . er. . . I mean halfling, gnome" grouping seems to have come from a concept of what would be the most popular and heroic to play from the most iconic of fantasy sources to the original developers. Over time and through various campaign settings and splatbooks, more "core" races have added to the basics. Now the 1/2 Orc made it into the PHB. I think part of the challenge would be to determine: what racial concepts would be heroic and popular, how many can fit in the new PHB, and does it matter anymore if a race is also still seen as a "monster" race. I personally find it much more interesting to have a wide spectrum of options. I would support Kobolds, Orcs, Goblins, Minotaurs, etc. as core races, but what will be the other elements that need to ultimately factor into the decision? I am optimistic that for those failing to make the cut in the new PHB, that there'll still be crunch listed in the new MM to convert monsters into playable characters. I was a big fan of the Humanoids HB of 2ed, and I enjoyed the current treatment of creatures in the MM. I would be thrilled to see the addition of any new creature as a new core race. |
| Fox Reeveheart08-17-07, 03:46 PM | I gave this suggestion before, they could have the original phb races first then like a "uncommon races" section next filled with kobolds, tieflings, and aasimars. everybody from some picture on the main page saw what appeared to be a horned woman (aka tiefling) and are banking on that being a possible core race. If tieflings get in aasimar will for sure. I hope for the following... Kobolds, Tieflings, Aasimars...ummm... thats all i really hope for. |
| nyysjan08-17-07, 04:00 PM | Or better yet...I'll just not say anything until they're next fight, when they're relying on that monstrous AC and didn't get a chance to sell those useless extra gadgets. :D might be an innocent oversight (altough it is something a true kobold would do if given one 5th of a change), switch mage armor to shield and you're golden EDIT- and yes, i want kobolds as core race |
| Braids08-17-07, 07:27 PM | I've said it before, but if 4e makes Kobold a viable core race I'll make the switch. |
| Ichneumon08-18-07, 03:33 AM | SOrry, but isn't Kobold already a core race? It is in the MM, which is CORE! |
| LordofNightmares08-18-07, 04:53 AM | You miss the point. Being a core Monster does not make it a Core Player Character Race. Yes, DM's are free to allow or deny any race their choose, but by moving the Kobold to the PHb it may entice other players who play Kobolds who would not have thought to do so in the past. My 4th Racial wishlist: common races Human Dwarf (with feats for subraces) Elf (with feats for subraces) Gnoll Gnome Halfling Kobold Orc uncommon races Aasimar Half-elf Half-orc Half-troll Hengeyokai (sp?) Teifling Warforged |
| Fox Reeveheart08-18-07, 09:40 AM | I posted this on another thread but feel it belongs here too... My biggest hope is the adding of some other races to the phb... most notably I would hope that they add the most popular non-core races... namely... I believe and most agree the most popular race not in the PHB is kobolds, I think it's time they have their spot in the PHB with the others. Tieflings I think come in second. These races, though uncommon in civilized lands (tieflings are just rare to begin with) make great hero material, more specifically they can fill the role of a reformed villain and now a hero role nicely. Orcs need in too. I mean they have elves/humans/half-elves. Yet they have humans/half-orcs but no full blooded orcs. I heard some comments said that the races in the phb are common races.... halfbreeds are not common, especially the half-orcs. And most races have communities made up of just themselves. Only humans and elves usually mingle about each other. But the balance in a town of the two races is usually way off. If you go to a dwarf city in the mountains more than likely you wont find any non-dwarves at all. Now kobolds, again are uncommon/rare around civilization but have you read their numbers? They have hundreds and thousands of kobolds in a average sized community. Who's to say one can't decide to one day leave and explore just what is outside their lair and become an adventurer. When tieflings are born they are shunned by most communities but they make great heroes nonetheless. I seen a comment that the phb races are the good races and heroic races... I just talked about this! But lets put it this way... ANY RACE CAN BE EVIL! Humans are mostly neutral/good but we can have just as many evil folk as anyone else. Same goes for every other phb race, especially half orcs that are usually brought up in orc society because many are shunned too. I already made the point about tieflings and kobolds, plus there was a book called races of faerun that made a point about tieflings, they make great heroes and they sometimes work harder than anyone to be good because they always have to battle that evil blood in them. Kobolds as I said... when one leaves the lair the start to shed that working ant mentality and their own independent personality starts to show and obviously many can learn to become good and even exemplars of good and righteousness. |
| Waldo_di08-18-07, 02:26 PM | Spoken like someone that knows squat about playing a low-powered race to its strengths. I'm not a fan of the splats myself, but they aren't needed. Kobolds and goblins can both be quite potent without racial substitution levels, templates and other tailor-made crap. One DM has cursed me more than once for my goblin ranger/rogue that he couldn't significantly damage if his DM seat depended upon it. :D Thats no fair I play Half-Orcs all the time ;) |
| Shaggy_Shaggs08-18-07, 09:27 PM | Thats no fair I play Half-Orcs all the time ;)http://209.85.12.236/5045/166/emo/795256.gif Fair enough, I still think the kobolds and splat books remark was rather harsh though. :P |
| Ace_of_time08-18-07, 09:35 PM | We should come up with something that we can put at the bottom of all our post so they know how many are serious about the kolds being core. Since the are doing away with LA their may be more added to core. Something like your best Kobold PC and the fact that he/she is voting for the kobold race to be add as a core race. |
| Errol08-18-07, 09:37 PM | I'm not a big fan of being a small race PC. I would only consider doing it with a goblin for the role-playing value of being a bum with style. Kobolds, I just don't see it being in the PH for 4e. Go ahead and play it though. To each their own. That is what DnD is all about.;) |
| Ace_of_time08-18-07, 09:42 PM | http://209.85.12.236/5045/166/emo/795256.gif Fair enough, I still think the kobolds and splat books remark was rather harsh though. :P The thing that is at the bottom of your post is wrong. WotC has added 2claws to their natural attack with no increase in LA. |
| adamb0nd08-18-07, 09:49 PM | The core races are core because they are the races that fit into the majority of DnD Campaigns... that being neutral/good aligned characters. The vast majority of orcs are evil. So overwelming is this population that the likely hood of a good orc is so rare that it didnt warrent putting them as a core class. The same goes for most the other LA +0 races in the MM. Half-Orcs are more acceptable, because their 50% likely being raised by humans, which are far less likely to be evil. It fits the generic world. The MM gives you stats for these monsters as PC characters, because if the DM feels the world needs it, they can be used as well as any other class in the Players guide. Its just the most games dont warent there use. I personally hope they do not add kobalds to the list of player races. I prefer not to clutter the core book with minority races/classes/feats. Thats the point of the MM, and splat books. Not to mention... you let kobalds in, you've gotta let goblins, hobgoblins, orcs, tieflings, drow, yaunti, trolls, awakened badgers, ect.... |
| Ace_of_time08-18-07, 09:50 PM | Most people don't like them because of -4str but Most builds are spell casting or ranged and low str doesn't really matter for them. Also one of the few small races with 30' speed and no LA. +1 NA and +1 size gives them a +2 bonus over most spellcasting ACs. And you have the sirprise facter. People running across you and say "Oh It's just a kobold." and that is the last words they ever say. Don't judge a book by it's cover people. Or do I have to remind everyone of a Halfling and his egg. Got to love those RabitSlayers. |
| AZNsupermarket08-18-07, 09:51 PM | I think that kobolds should stink at first level (allowing them to remain easy low level opponents) then becoming a decent PC race as they level. |
| Vrael08-18-07, 10:07 PM | To Koboldly go where none have gone before... Yes, Kobolds are awesome. One of these days I have to type up the tale of Othokent, a friend of mine's kobold sorcerer/rogue who took over the party after they found him in a cave... Good times. |
| SpoonyBard08-18-07, 10:29 PM | Yay Kobolds and Goblins! Evil races for full PC status in 4th Ed! |
| Fox Reeveheart08-18-07, 10:33 PM | I just posted this >.> Half-orcs are more than likely to be raised by their orc counterparts and thus are usually evil. These classes are used because at the time they were the original tolienesque races and such and there has been no change to them... don't know why half-orcs were added. I also said that the evil races can also make good reformed villains turned heroes and thus why a good kobold or orc would come about. And if tieflings are put in as rumored by those pictures then it makes no sense because the VAST majority of tieflings are evil! edit: I also want to put this. Evil campaigns are on the rise lets not forget that. I havent seen so many evil campaigns ever in all my years of gaming. And maybe the less than holy races need their spot in the sun... err...darkness too. |
| Ace_of_time08-18-07, 10:41 PM | Here is my vote. |
| Waldo_di08-18-07, 11:54 PM | If they let kobolds in core than the lizard folk would probably start a riot and attack WotC personally along with the Skum, Trogolydtes (however there spelled) and all other fish things. |
| Hebitsuikaza08-19-07, 12:16 AM | I don't know where all the love for the Kobold came from... it seems a bit bizarre. Perhaps I missed an important book or something. I always figured that if the D&D races were going to be expanded to include common enemy races, hobgoblins should be at the very top of the list. Feral, light-footed, aggressive human-sized humanoids that even when evil tend to play the role of commanders, important bodyguards or the general bad guys who can be diplomatic with the PCs. I don't think it takes much of a stretch of the imagination at all to see them working with humans, dwarfs, halflings, elves and gnomes and providing a useful, interesting characteristic to the party without seeming all-out wacky. Common mercenaries and thugs, many would happily eschew living in the wild and in dungeons to live in the relatively posh conditions of the city, even if it is mostly in the poor section and hanging out in taverns (where most adventurers recruit party members anyway). And if one understands the mythological roots of the hobgoblin, it is VERY easy to see how they would work very well as heroes while adding in their own unique flavor. Am I the only one who sees that? Sure, they have been totally screwed over the last many, many years with a stat block that made them literally unplayable and content that was only expanded in Kalimar and some in Eberron, both of which often made them much duller than they had to.... So why are all the posters crying out for the rather limited and wacky lizards whose main role seems to be to be kicked around instead of a race that makes sense. Granted, Kobolds aren't as nearly off-base as some... I mean, it isn't like asking for werecritters, robots, half-vampires or some of the other really awkward and outlandish races that some campaign settings have made core, but it still seems a little weird to be something that every world should have. |
| Shaggy_Shaggs08-19-07, 12:38 AM | It's Tucker's Kobolds (http://www.tuckerskobolds.com/) mostly, I think. A lot of folks like to see low-powered guys kick ass, and kobolds fit the bill. I'd probably be a kobold fan myself, except that goblins secured the underdog position in my heart before I ever heard of kobolds. :P |
| Ace_of_time08-19-07, 01:26 AM | For me Goblins let hobgoblins tell them what to do but mostly kobold only let dragons tell them what to do. But that is just me. Plus there is always the DW feat. |
| Waldo_di08-19-07, 01:36 AM | For me Goblins let hobgoblins tell them what to do but mostly kobold only let dragons tell them what to do. But that is just me. Plus there is always the DW feat. I think anyone can tell a goblin or kobold what to do. What's a goblin or Kobold going to do say "no?" you simply counter there disagreement with a axe to the face. Also if they made a gazillion splat-books for the goblin then we'd be goblin for core status not dragon-lizard thing-ama-bab-ber for core status. Kobolds are not dragons heres a dragon :dragon: and here is the kobold...:chicken: |
| Tsochar08-19-07, 01:54 AM | Kobolds are descended from dragons, and they're a sneaky little sort. In Cityscape, there is mention of kobolds being among the more common monstrous races in humanoid cities. Plus, they have skills as trapmakers that I'm sure is in demand among the wealthy. I give my vote to Kobolds! |
| Hebitsuikaza08-19-07, 02:11 AM | While I can see that there are good reasons here to believe that an ARMY of Kobolds can be a good encounter and should be respected overall as a race due to high numbers, I don't see anything here about how they meaningfully contribute singularly as PCs. An orc can be your big, dumb, quiet brute type who is the guy you call on when you need someone with great strength. He is the guy who will push aside the blocked cavern, break open the jail cell you have been locked in, stop the big iron door from slamming shut before your party has escaped and so forth... A hobgoblin would be the guy at home in the wild living in dirt and filth, he would help the others build camp, track monsters, shake down captured enemies, lure the enemies into traps and overall be a dirty scoundrel that the party will want to keep one eye on at all times. And in more social games? Natural amoral amorous tricksters. Even a goblin can be your animal handler who rides around the battlefield and snipes the enemy from wolfpack, can scout ahead or get back to town or whereever before the rest of the party to warn about an invasion... I guess, unlike the above two, they don't really work as perfectly in a typical heroic game. Now, Kobolds can set up a big dungeon of traps, they can snipe with crossbows from afar, ambush a party from all sides and outnumber them 2+ to 1 despite the encounter level. They can cast illusions to help hide their nasty traps, build large war machines... all very cool, but they aren't things that they party would be doing. They have a link with dragons which means that whereever you find kobolds, you may well find dragons nearby. They are things that the monsters that ambush the party would be doing. In other words, once you make them into PCs they lose everything that just made them cool and special. Kobolds... well... I think they just end up coming off like green gnomes with scales and tails. Granted, the gnome is a rather boring race overall and too similar to the dwarf or halfling to really encourage a lot of variation. The only traits they have that are unique is that they are really good at making things, healing and communing with animals. However, building things is the kobold's specialty and communing with animals falls under something the goblins could be doing. And, unless there is a major overhaul to how the small races are handled, I just don't see a party of gnome, halfling, kobold and goblin being a viable option, no matter how cute the picture is. Of course, idealy WotC won't screw up on any of these common races like they did in 3.0 and REFUSED to fix in 3.5 when they fixed everything else... I just don't think the Kobold's merit being a core race. What makes them cool only works in a passive role, an adventuring party is inherantly active. |
| Sphyre08-19-07, 02:49 AM | Core is widely accepted as in the 3 core rulebooks: PhB, DMG, and the MM. Kobolds are in the Monster Manual. The Monster Manual is one of the three core rulebooks. Thus Kobolds, are widely accepted as core. If you're complaining about them not being in the PhB... that's pretty frivolous. |
| Elemental_Elf08-19-07, 03:14 AM | They may not say anything, it doesn't matter. I saw a number of mothers that wouldn't buy Yu-Gi-Oh cards because the people on front of the cards covers were not smiling, it looked "too serious". The next thing I knew, amazingly, the next set of cards had all the characters on there, and they all looked very serious but all had this sadistic grin on, one guess which cards sold more. Actually this probably has more to do with a new series of Yugioh being released called Yugioh GX. The series tries to draw younger kids (kids, not tweens) into the game by slapping the main character's visage onto every product released. Not that the original Yugioh didn't do this, it did, GX just does it with more characters. And frankly, they do seem a bit sadistic/evil in a way, lol! ~~~~~~~~~~ I'm all for Kobolds being in the PHB. I love Kobolds and they deserve, more than most other non-core races to be bumped up. Frankly, I hope we get several additional Core Races. My ideal list would be something like the following: Aasimar Changeling Dwarf Elf Gnoll Gnome Goblin Half-Elf Halfling Human Kobold Orc Tiefling To me that list is pretty cool because it gives several races for the 3 traditional Personality Arch-types: Righteous-Goody-Good, Angsty-Goes-Both-Ways and Sorta-Evil-But-With-a-Heart-...-Maybe. Plus it has all the races I commonly play, so that makes it even cooler :D :D |
| LordofNightmares08-19-07, 03:44 AM | Needs more Half-orc. I love Half-orc. |
| tauaru08-19-07, 07:23 AM | Kobolds Rock! Their exemption from the PHB is a travesty! Some DMs (AKA mine) say, "PHB Races and Classes only for this campaign." They are within their rights to do so as many adventures are tailored for PHB style Characters. If we can add any races to the 'standard' it should be Kobolds, Goblins & Orcs. They are most common encountered races and should have the potential to show us how they could be stalwart companions. I really do not know why Gnomes are standard races, they have spellcasting as a per day action. Isn't that an automatic level adjustment? Kobolds, Goblins, Orcs. Tieflings are silly half-breeds, just make a half-fiend. They don't need to be added as a race. Although the concept of Gnolls and Lizardfolk intrigues me as well... What ifit were possible tp create a PHB and MM that had some sort of stat interaction that allowed any class to become PC, but the animal, Magical Beast, and other obviously not PC races somehow were unable to take advantage? That seems possible, even if I cannot think of how right now. |
| Ace_of_time08-19-07, 12:12 PM | I think anyone can tell a goblin or kobold what to do. What's a goblin or Kobold going to do say "no?" you simply counter there disagreement with a axe to the face. Also if they made a gazillion splat-books for the goblin then we'd be goblin for core status not dragon-lizard thing-ama-bab-ber for core status. Kobolds are not dragons heres a dragon :dragon: and here is the kobold...:chicken: A common misstake. Kobolds are not chickens. There is just certain times in which running is better then certain death. even My players know this. If you kill one goblin that is mostly followed by getting attacked by 2-3. But that would be 50-60 for kobold. That splat book everyone keeps talking about doesn't make them dragons only the DW feat does that. It does tell us how they live and who they are. I'd love, as a DM, to know that about goblin too. |
| Ace_of_time08-19-07, 12:19 PM | If their doing away with LA then they will mostly turn all HD in racial parigons so you could play anything. |
| Waldo_di08-19-07, 12:37 PM | Needs more Half-orc. I love Half-orc. Strongly agreed with. They need to beef up the half-orc as well. |
| LordofNightmares08-19-07, 03:19 PM | Strongly agreed with. They need to beef up the half-orc as well. The half-orc house rule I've been giving my PC's to use (and have been using as a recurring friendly rival NPC) is a skootch bit beefier, but still +0 LA +2 Str, Pick one: -2 Int or -2 Cha. Darkvision 60 ft. Orc Blood. Orc weapon familiarity. Automatic Languages: Common and Orcish Favored Class: Pick one: Barbarian or Fighter. |
| Khadmus08-19-07, 04:17 PM | Kobolds are good for two things 1. Making Traps 2. Fried Lizard If it wasn't for those riducolous splat books on kobolds they'd be at where they should be in someone's stomach. KILL THE KOBOLDS! I am not prejudiced against kobolds, I am prejudiced against kobold supporters. I have good reason for disliking kobolds. |
| Ace_of_time08-19-07, 05:05 PM | KILL THE KOBOLDS! I am not prejudiced against kobolds, I am prejudiced against kobold supporters. I have good reason for disliking kobolds. Why? |
| Khadmus08-19-07, 06:05 PM | I was congested and blood flow to the brain was shut off. Forgive me. |
| Kattam08-19-07, 08:17 PM | Yes, kobolds... and also half-illithid svirfneblin! :ayyyy!: |
| Ace_of_time08-19-07, 09:11 PM | After Dragon Mountain my players never wanted to ever see a kobold again. |
| Waldo_di08-19-07, 10:15 PM | KILL THE KOBOLDS! I am not prejudiced against kobolds, I am prejudiced against kobold supporters. I have good reason for disliking kobolds. Yes someone who agrees with me so far I'm at Peeple who support me: 1. People who don't support me: too many too count. |
| Manyfist08-19-07, 11:03 PM | Aasimar and Tieflings should be core. |
| Korone08-19-07, 11:16 PM | Against the kobold. Kill all these small, annoying barking lizards... all of them !! |
| camthalion08-20-07, 12:30 AM | Okay, maybe off topic, but I have this recurring Kobold NPC who shows up at inopportune times and declares "My name is Bleepo Dragonspawn; you have killed my father, my mother, my twelve brothers, my eight sisters, and most of my cousins. Now, prepare to die." At which point something really big always comes through the door and steps on him on its way to the party. ... Okay, maybe funnier at the table. hehehehehh |
| HermitIX08-20-07, 01:00 AM | Why does it matter if kobolds are core or not? As long as they are playable from the Monster Manual I would think you are good to go. I think a major part of the allure is the fact that they aren’t core. They are a monster race. |
| Shaggy_Shaggs08-20-07, 01:12 AM | Okay, maybe off topic, but I have this recurring Kobold NPC who shows up at inopportune times and declares "My name is Bleepo Dragonspawn; you have killed my father, my mother, my twelve brothers, my eight sisters, and most of my cousins. Now, prepare to die." At which point something really big always comes through the door and steps on him on its way to the party. ... Okay, maybe funnier at the table. hehehehehh:rofl: Nah, that is pretty funny. You've got your lovably incompetent recurring stooge, your Princess Bride reference, and poking a little fun at the absurd kobold reproductive rate. I like it. :D |
| Splendide08-20-07, 01:37 AM | IMO they should do the current core races in PHB (maybe minus half-orc), and then under the MM entries for these other races, make them playable races too. Kobolds wouldn't want to hang out with dwarves and elves anyway. |
| LordofNightmares08-20-07, 01:49 AM | Half orca and kobolds should both be in the PHb |
| Waldo_di08-20-07, 03:44 AM | Okay, maybe off topic, but I have this recurring Kobold NPC who shows up at inopportune times and declares "My name is Bleepo Dragonspawn; you have killed my father, my mother, my twelve brothers, my eight sisters, and most of my cousins. Now, prepare to die." At which point something really big always comes through the door and steps on him on its way to the party. ... Okay, maybe funnier at the table. hehehehehh This could be the greatest use for a kobold ever... EVER!!! |
| Divokej08-20-07, 03:55 AM | I hope they don't make it into core. They'll lose their underdog status, people will fall in love with something else, people will stop playing kobold and clamor for something else to be core. And we'll go through this all again. |
| Waldo_di08-20-07, 02:34 PM | I hope they don't make it into core. They'll lose their underdog status, people will fall in love with something else, people will stop playing kobold and clamor for something else to be core. And we'll go through this all again. Yeah but wouldn't they be an under-lizard? |
| Platstud08-20-07, 02:48 PM | Half orca and kobolds should both be in the PHb I didn't even know there was a half-orca. That's some interesting biology for sure. Can he shoot water from his blow-hole for 1d6/level? |
| nyysjan08-20-07, 03:21 PM | i think templates should not be in phb, (i assume half orca would be a template based critter), what kind of LA are we talking of here? EDIT- or are we talking of Orca who has some other half template added to it? half dragon orca would get wings so mobility would not be an issue, so i guess it would be viable pc race, altough the int (even with +2 from half dragon template) would be kinda low, maybe some levels in monk would be in order (you know, to avoid armor issues and to get around not having hands to hold weapons with) |
| tauaru08-20-07, 05:39 PM | Fire breathing Orca are totally off topic. Kobolds are already half-dragons. Therefore better. |
| Waldo_di08-20-07, 07:28 PM | Fire breathing Orca are totally off topic. Kobolds are already half-dragons. Therefore better. I don't know if somethings half-orca than its got to be pretty big meaning it shouldn't have any problems eating a kobold. And yes fire breathing half-orcas are totally off topic I mean something half-whale breathing fire let's get serious here. |
| kyros_the_spawnslayer08-22-07, 12:06 AM | I think he ment half-orc. Either way I love the concept of the Bleepo Dragonspawn character, plus I loved that movie back in the day. |
| Rerecros08-22-07, 12:12 AM | yay, Kobolds rule. |
| Ace_of_time08-22-07, 02:35 AM | Yeah but wouldn't they be an under-lizard? Reptile not lizard. They don't do the tongue thing. Wasn't Bleepo in The Test of Twins books. |
| Isendir08-22-07, 03:29 PM | Kobolds are cool cause My DM always has Them as allies but When I make them I can't FIND A GOOD CLASS!!!!! But my DM made one a paladin and he kick some of my character butts.:headexplo :OMG! |
| jubjubdestroyer08-22-07, 06:21 PM | KOBOLDS FREAKIN RULE. thats all there is to it. there everyones favorite trap maker. Thats all the party needs in a rouge. |
| reaper508108-22-07, 06:44 PM | :eek: Bow before the might of the Kobold swarms:bow: Kobold core race is BADDDDD idea. They are Verrrrrrrrrry overpowered. Especially with some of the feats from Races of the Dragon. |
| Waldo_di08-22-07, 11:23 PM | Kobolds are cool cause My DM always has Them as allies but When I make them I can't FIND A GOOD CLASS!!!!! But my DM made one a paladin and he kick some of my character butts.:headexplo :OMG! To make a good class for a kobold buy "Hey I'm obssessed with dragon's and since my DM won't let me play one, I'll play a kobold oh look here's a gazillion diffrent overpowered feats and stuff for the kobold, thank you very much my good sir*" splat book *this book does not really exist |
| Ace_of_time08-22-07, 11:31 PM | Kobolds are cool cause My DM always has Them as allies but When I make them I can't FIND A GOOD CLASS!!!!! But my DM made one a paladin and he kick some of my character butts.:headexplo :OMG! Ninja/rogue with the stacking feat. The DM always love when you pop out of nowhere and kill his monster with one hit. |
| Joni-san08-23-07, 12:39 AM | Kobolds in the 4E PHB? For some reason, I like this idea... |
| Fox Reeveheart08-23-07, 01:34 AM | RotD feats for kobolds are by no means overpowering really... MAYBE dragonwraught but thats only because of the given immunities... but really HOW MANY TIMES ARE YOU BEING PUT TO SLEEP OR PARALYZED? all situational abilities that just come in handy. Oh and the rest of the feats, it takes 2 feats and having to be a certain level just to fly and more feats to be able to carry more and such while flying. It takes a lot of draconic heritage feats to get good stacking stuff out of them since many of their abilities are based on how many draconic heritage feats you have. Kobold fighter substitution level makes them just about on par with any other race for fighter so yay! PLEASE WE WANT KOBOLDS IN OUR PHB SOUP Q_Q Get rid of gnomes... the ultimate enemy of the kobolds! |
| The_Rouge08-23-07, 04:51 AM | First: KOBOLDS RULE!!:cheer: :cheer: Second: A good core class for Kobolds is: Barbarian! You heard right Barbarian. They Rock! and they are good as Rouges...Especial sneaky infiltrator Rouges :incog: Im thinking about making an all Koblod group to fight against my pc group..:plotting: |
| weasel0508-23-07, 05:58 AM | Go the "Bolds" |
| Isendir08-23-07, 11:59 AM | To make a good class for a kobold buy "Hey I'm obssessed with dragon's and since my DM won't let me play one, I'll play a kobold oh look here's a gazillion diffrent overpowered feats and stuff for the kobold, thank you very much my good sir*" splat book *this book does not really exist Yeah but I like but I don't play with them that much I like a 1/2 shadow dragon ranger which crushes a lot of undead. |
| Lord_of_Vain08-23-07, 06:56 PM | Hell yea!!!! Kobolds are the best! |
| Waldo_di08-23-07, 08:51 PM | and they are good as Rouges...Especial sneaky infiltrator Rouges :incog: Nothing screams infiltrator like a kobold trying to lie his way past a gaurd. "I'm the kings dinner I swear!" |
| GWESTALION08-23-07, 11:11 PM | EVERYBODY WHO THINKS KOBOLD WOULD BE A GOOD CORE RACE LISTEN AND THINK, PLEASE!!!!!!!! koblods are the weakest non-animal creature (and most animals can take them down) so ya kobolds for core all you want but that doesnt mean any body else will play them it would pe a waste of good paper and ink that can be used for more usless rules that we have all grown to love |
| GnomishSorcerer08-23-07, 11:31 PM | EVERYBODY WHO THINKS KOBOLD WOULD BE A GOOD CORE RACE LISTEN AND THINK, PLEASE!!!!!!!! koblods are the weakest non-animal creature (and most animals can take them down) so ya kobolds for core all you want but that doesnt mean any body else will play them it would pe a waste of good paper and ink that can be used for more usless rules that we have all grown to love Oh, shut up you fool. Stats can and will be adjusted from edition to edition. Just cause they aren't uber powerful is no reason to say no even so. I mean this game is about roleplaying for many and a Kobold is a decent option for this. Many here do not want to see races become overly generic because it removes flavor for us. I know I for one would rather play a fun, interesting character than a cookie cutter that can mow down enemies. That being said... Kobolds for core! (Even if I don't plan on getting 4th edition at the moment.) |
| Shaggy_Shaggs08-24-07, 02:34 PM | I sincerely hope GWESTALION one day has a DM that knows how to exploit the advantages of the little humanoids, and his party narrowly escapes the charge of the goblin worg cavalry into a kobold-infested cavern complex. :smirk: |
| EvilVegan08-24-07, 03:12 PM | Not sure if it has been said in this thread, I've said it many times before. KOBOLDS ARE ALREADY CORE. The monster manual is a core rule book. |
| Platstud08-24-07, 03:47 PM | Not sure if it has been said in this thread, I've said it many times before. KOBOLDS ARE ALREADY CORE. The monster manual is a core rule book. Thank you very much, Mr. Logic. Your "facts" have no place in this thread. |
| Ace_of_time08-24-07, 06:52 PM | RotD feats for kobolds are by no means overpowering really... MAYBE dragonwraught but thats only because of the given immunities... but really HOW MANY TIMES ARE YOU BEING PUT TO SLEEP OR PARALYZED? all situational abilities that just come in handy. Oh and the rest of the feats, it takes 2 feats and having to be a certain level just to fly and more feats to be able to carry more and such while flying. It takes a lot of draconic heritage feats to get good stacking stuff out of them since many of their abilities are based on how many draconic heritage feats you have. Kobold fighter substitution level makes them just about on par with any other race for fighter so yay! PLEASE WE WANT KOBOLDS IN OUR PHB SOUP Q_Q Get rid of gnomes... the ultimate enemy of the kobolds! DW feat let you start out at a higher age without losing physical stats. Also lets you take some dragon feats from the dragon book. |
| Ace_of_time08-24-07, 06:53 PM | Not sure if it has been said in this thread, I've said it many times before. KOBOLDS ARE ALREADY CORE. The monster manual is a core rule book. Talking about core starting races. |
| CelticMutt08-24-07, 07:27 PM | Not sure if it has been said in this thread, I've said it many times before. KOBOLDS ARE ALREADY CORE. The monster manual is a core rule book. There are DMs that refuse to let players use anything not in the PHB, or a campaign setting book if that's used. |
| Platstud08-24-07, 08:15 PM | There are DMs that refuse to let players use anything not in the PHB, or a campaign setting book if that's used. There are also DMs who disallow certain PHB races. In the end, if the DM is intent on disallowing something, there really isn't anything WotC can do about it. |
| Spikes01k08-24-07, 09:09 PM | 411 peeps!!! My source on 4e has given me some insider knowledge. This is the same guy who warned me about the play testing and release of 4e, down the they very date. Here is the latest 411. As of now NO races have been axed! They were considering the gnome but the gnome is back in the picture as of yet. AND..... AS OF NOW KOBOLDS ARE CORE PHB!!!! As well as Teiflings, Asimars, and Kender. |
| unusualsuspect08-25-07, 12:39 AM | Dude, we're going to need a lot more then large font to trust something so inheritly awesome. ^_^ |
| Lord_of_Vain08-25-07, 01:08 AM | Thank you very much, Mr. Logic. Your "facts" have no place in this thread. Hahaha. And yes I agree, I'm not sure if I believe the guy that popped in here and shouted that kobolds just became a core race. |
| Spikes01k08-25-07, 07:52 AM | Dude, we're going to need a lot more then large font to trust something so inheritly awesome. ^_^ One of my GMs has a friend who is working on 4e. He has been giving me the 411 on it, even if I didn't believe it. He had just started getting into Dnd 3e and only bought like 4 books, 3 core +CA. He also knew when they were going to announce 4e, even if I didn't believe him. This is some good information, I can't do anything but give you my word that this guy has been VERY right in the past and has given me some new info now. You can take it or leave it. |
| Ace_of_time08-25-07, 08:00 PM | Well if they are doing away with HDs and LAs you would be able to play any race at 1st level. Racial things would be gain as you level up in classes. |
| Horatio Hornblower08-26-07, 01:46 PM | I'm all for variety. Let's add kobolds, orcs, goblins, aasimars and tielings to the PHB. Maybe some other humanoid races too. Anyone for aquatic kobolds? :) |
| graddlin08-27-07, 02:32 AM | Kobolds as a Core Race?:thumbsdow LAME. Why would anyone want to play a disgusting little monkey-rat that has almost no visual appeal? Do the lot of you whom advocate for the Kobold to be a Core Race think that they would be welcome in a civiled sociaty? Do the lot of you honestly think that a kobold could be anything more than a trained mockery of someone civilised? Half-Orcs get it bad enough when it comes down to little social acceptance, and they are part human! Come on. What is so appealing about the little blighters? Take care, fiends. |
| Shaggy_Shaggs08-27-07, 03:41 AM | Come on. What is so appealing about the little blighters?That they're hated? That they're a little different? That they're quite powerful in their own way but their strengths are nonobvious, so when you make one work as a PC you look amazing to the other players (possibly even the DM) that don't know better? That despite their strengths they're still quite vulnerable in certain areas, so they're a challenge to play effectively when the DM attacks their weak spots? That the race comes with a certain style of fluff that the player just enjoys? Think of the old Apple Jacks breakfast cereal commercials applied to D&D races: "We play what we like!" Why I play goblins, anyway, and kobolds share some definite similarities with the gobbos. |
| graddlin08-27-07, 02:35 PM | That they're hated? That they're a little different? That they're quite powerful in their own way but their strengths are nonobvious, so when you make one work as a PC you look amazing to the other players (possibly even the DM) that don't know better? That despite their strengths they're still quite vulnerable in certain areas, so they're a challenge to play effectively when the DM attacks their weak spots? That the race comes with a certain style of fluff that the player just enjoys? Think of the old Apple Jacks breakfast cereal commercials applied to D&D races: "We play what we like!" Why I play goblins, anyway, and kobolds share some definite similarities with the gobbos. If that is what you want to play, that's what you're going to play. Indeed, I have no problem with people playing as little monsters such as Kobolds and Goblins. However, I do not allow such revolting creatures to be PCs in my games. Goblins and Kobolds will forever be fighter-fodder to me. Take care, friend. |
| Shaggy_Shaggs08-27-07, 02:41 PM | Fighter-fodder... heh. A goblin rogue 8/assassin 10/mindbender 2 might have something to say about that, if he weren't the sort to communicate with blades and telepathy rather than words. :smirk: |
| Rustmonster08-27-07, 05:50 PM | Why would anyone want to play a disgusting little monkey-rat that has almost no visual appeal? 1) They are reptilian. 2) They look awesome. Have you seen some of the pictures from RoTD? Much more interesting then the average "Oh, look at me, I'm Tordek. I look like every dwarf fighter you've ever seen before". 3) Kobolds have a huge amount of unique flavour to them (don't make a cooking kobolds joke. They arn't funny). In RoTD, it explains kobold society, and I must say, they know how to get things done. Some people like playing INTERESTING races from unique cultures, not the same Tolkien stuff that keeps getting churned out. |
| graddlin08-27-07, 06:14 PM | Fighter-fodder... heh. A goblin rogue 8/assassin 10/mindbender 2 might have something to say about that, if he weren't the sort to communicate with blades and telepathy rather than words. :smirk: You make a fine point. Take care, firend. |
| graddlin08-27-07, 06:16 PM | 1) They are reptilian. 2) They look awesome. Have you seen some of the pictures from RoTD? Much more interesting then the average "Oh, look at me, I'm Tordek. I look like every dwarf fighter you've ever seen before". 3) Kobolds have a huge amount of unique flavour to them (don't make a cooking kobolds joke. They arn't funny). In RoTD, it explains kobold society, and I must say, they know how to get things done. Some people like playing INTERESTING races from unique cultures, not the same Tolkien stuff that keeps getting churned out. You misunderstand my point, friend. I agree whole-heartedly that the same-old dwarves and elves can be a little redundant. Trust me, I like new and interesting races. But...couldn't we find a better race to latch on to? The Kobold is just a little...strange. Take care, fiend. |
| Anodai08-27-07, 06:40 PM | I believe what graddlin is saying is that the kolbold's role as walking exp for first level characters in D&Dwould prevent them from being core player races no matter how awesome or powerful (Pun-Pun) they are, their stereotypical role as bad guys prevents them from being core races. And don't bring up half orcs, there's a difference between them and true orcs. |
| Lord_of_Vain08-27-07, 06:52 PM | 1) They are reptilian. 2) They look awesome. Have you seen some of the pictures from RoTD? Much more interesting then the average "Oh, look at me, I'm Tordek. I look like every dwarf fighter you've ever seen before". 3) Kobolds have a huge amount of unique flavour to them (don't make a cooking kobolds joke. They arn't funny). In RoTD, it explains kobold society, and I must say, they know how to get things done. Some people like playing INTERESTING races from unique cultures, not the same Tolkien stuff that keeps getting churned out. I agree kobolds are just really fun to play. They're interesting and since a lot of people them it just makes me love them all the more. But if you start dissing Tolkien, we could have problems... |
| Radiun08-27-07, 07:08 PM | If 4E throws in Fluff about Kobolds and Kurtulmak beating the snot out of the Gnomes and their malicious god, Garl GlitterGold, I will buy those books JUST to read the story! Jealous little bum! >.< Edit: Io and his posse for Core Gods Yay to the NineFold Dragon :) |
| graddlin08-28-07, 01:38 AM | What is the drive that makes people want to play these little beasties? Is there something that I am missing? This is an honest question, friends. If someone could sell them to me, I might consider playing one. But right now all I am thinking about is the fact that I would rather play something a little...taller, and perhaps a little more intimidating in appearance. Such as a Khasta (Fiend Folio) or an Ethergaunt (Fiend Folio). Take care, fiends. |
| GawainBS08-28-07, 04:57 AM | We're going to start an all-out kobold campaign, except for one player who is too vain and too power-focused to play one. Playing a kobold party would circumvent the fact that most people hate them, since they mainly interact with their own kind. If you're playing in Eberron, there's more than one place where you would be welcome. I can also imagine that a kobold in Sigil wouldn't attract too much attention. Besides, aren't adventurers the kind of people who mostly care about getting the job done, wether done by an Aasimar or Kobold? Seriously, read up on the Kobolds in RotD and in Dragon issue June 2005. Awesome how they worked out the fluff. BTW, do you think a Kashta or Ethergaunt would be any more welcome in a random city? I can rather imagine that people grundgingly allow a kobold or orc to enter their city than something that's almost an incarnation of Evil. |
| Ace_of_time08-28-07, 11:16 AM | Fighter-fodder... heh. A goblin rogue 8/assassin 10/mindbender 2 might have something to say about that, if he weren't the sort to communicate with blades and telepathy rather than words. :smirk: I don't know My kobold Sorc5th/wizard5th/10th Ult Magus just shoots first and ask Question to the ash. |
| Ace_of_time08-28-07, 11:35 AM | What is the drive that makes people want to play these little beasties? Is there something that I am missing? This is an honest question, friends. If someone could sell them to me, I might consider playing one. But right now all I am thinking about is the fact that I would rather play something a little...taller, and perhaps a little more intimidating in appearance. Such as a Khasta (Fiend Folio) or an Ethergaunt (Fiend Folio). Take care, fiends. Read their entry in RotD book. Then add that they are a small races with NA bonus and speed of 30', with no LA. The only thing that hust them is -4 str which can be over come and not needed for spellcasters like sorc. One of my best builds was Dragon displiple sorc. Which not only takes away all minuses but net him a +2 int, +4str, +2cha, NA +5, lowlight, Imunities, blind sense, wings, Breath weapon. And is better then taking DW feat. |
| Shaggy_Shaggs08-28-07, 01:22 PM | I don't know My kobold Sorc5th/wizard5th/10th Ult Magus just shoots first and ask Question to the ash. :rofl: I like that. Speak with Dust, haha. What is the drive that makes people want to play these little beasties? Is there something that I am missing? This is an honest question, friends. I think it's a combination of liking to play the underdog (or just the guy who uses wits over raw power), and peer pressure. Why would anyone that's not a Tolkein fanboy want to play a halfling? They're weak and don't look like much, but they have certain advantages that, if pressed correctly, can compensate and allow the runts to run with the big dogs. Same deal with kobolds and goblins, though the advantages are slightly different in each case (<3 30' movement and darkvision on a small race). The peer pressure angle has its roots with Tucker's kobolds (http://www.tuckerskobolds.com/), I think. People liked the idea, passed it around among their peers, and it just snowballed until most everybody knew that if you wanted a character or monster that got along by guile rather than raw power, kobolds were the race to do it with. The talk reinforced the bias toward playing kobolds, and the results reinforced the talk, creating a virtuous cycle driving kobold popularity into the stratosphere. I managed to dodge the peer pressure angle of it myself - I'd never heard of a kobold before the underdog race bug bit me, and I ended up favouring the much less popular goblins, instead. That doesn't mean I can't appreciate the powerful intimidating brute types you speak of. Goblin is my favourite race. My second favourite race is actually a race/template combo: human werebear (god they make fun counterattacking front line tanks). I know the joy of hulking out, picking up a wagon or small tree as an improvised weapon, and beating some fool over the head with it. :D I don't really mean to sell you on anything. If you don't want to play kobolds, that's fine. I do think it's a bit silly to give folks a hard time about wanting to play them, though (then again I also think it's a bit silly to include them as a PHB race). I think you're coming uncomfortably close to baiting, and you might want to ease up a bit on the fictional racism in case a wizo having a bad day comes by. It'd be lame to get yourself zapped over a subject like this, you know? |
| Radiun08-28-07, 04:28 PM | I think it's a combination of liking to play the underdog (or just the guy who uses wits over raw power), and peer pressure. You forget people like me who just liked the way they looked and fell in love after reading more on them ;):) |
| graddlin08-29-07, 01:16 AM | :rofl: I like that. Speak with Dust, haha. I think it's a combination of liking to play the underdog (or just the guy who uses wits over raw power), and peer pressure. Why would anyone that's not a Tolkein fanboy want to play a halfling? They're weak and don't look like much, but they have certain advantages that, if pressed correctly, can compensate and allow the runts to run with the big dogs. Same deal with kobolds and goblins, though the advantages are slightly different in each case (<3 30' movement and darkvision on a small race). The peer pressure angle has its roots with Tucker's kobolds (http://www.tuckerskobolds.com/), I think. People liked the idea, passed it around among their peers, and it just snowballed until most everybody knew that if you wanted a character or monster that got along by guile rather than raw power, kobolds were the race to do it with. The talk reinforced the bias toward playing kobolds, and the results reinforced the talk, creating a virtuous cycle driving kobold popularity into the stratosphere. I managed to dodge the peer pressure angle of it myself - I'd never heard of a kobold before the underdog race bug bit me, and I ended up favouring the much less popular goblins, instead. That doesn't mean I can't appreciate the powerful intimidating brute types you speak of. Goblin is my favourite race. My second favourite race is actually a race/template combo: human werebear (god they make fun counterattacking front line tanks). I know the joy of hulking out, picking up a wagon or small tree as an improvised weapon, and beating some fool over the head with it. :D I don't really mean to sell you on anything. If you don't want to play kobolds, that's fine. I do think it's a bit silly to give folks a hard time about wanting to play them, though (then again I also think it's a bit silly to include them as a PHB race). I think you're coming uncomfortably close to baiting, and you might want to ease up a bit on the fictional racism in case a wizo having a bad day comes by. It'd be lame to get yourself zapped over a subject like this, you know? Trolling? Not at all, friend. Had I wished to get myself "zapped," as you put it, I would have made a spectacular bufoon of myself while using many colorful words that are prohibited on this sight. My tenacity and probing inquisitiveness come from a desire to understand the peoples' standpoint on the subject at hand. That is all. As an aside, you have managed to make me see why the little brutes might be fun to play. You were very well spoken in your post. Take care, friend. |
| Needle08-29-07, 05:59 PM | You forget people like me who just liked the way they looked and fell in love after reading more on them ;):) mhmm, me too. I love the way they look, I love the lore. |