Krii, Creatures of Twilight [Archive] - Wizards Community

Krii, Creatures of Twilight [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Baernwulf_of_Nor
08-12-07, 08:52 PM (Pronounced "kree")

Krii, often speculated to be an ancient cross between elves and gnomes, though they insist they are their own race, have a deep connection with magic and use it in everyday activities. Most children in an all Krii society are trained to channel the power within them from a very early age. Krii also love the stars and moon, and are often found at night dancing under the stars.

Personality: Krii are a playful and quick witted race. They love games, parties, and mischief. They are surprisingly impatient for the long lifespan. Krii believe all problems have at least two ways of going about it, and frown upon brutish tactics and threats. All Krii are inherently lazy when it comes to chores, but that fluctuates depending on where they grow up.

Physical Description: Krii are slim, with pale skin and stand about 4' tall. They have slighly angular features, much like that of a half elf, even though they grow little facial hair, they also have extremely long and pointed ears, even more-so than the elves. It is extremely rare to find a Krii who's natural hair color is not jet-black, though many Krii women dye their hair. The majority put colorful beads or tie colorful ribbons around certain locks of hair to give it at least some color. Many chose colors that match/go well with their eye color, which varies widely and can be any color imaginable.

Relations: Krii get along well with humans due to the spontaneous and exuberant nature of both races. They don't see eye-to-eye with dwarves or half-orcs, who they see as grumbling and brutish. Krii form individual relatioships with Gnomes, Halflings, and Half-Elves. They consider elves slightly boring at first meeting, but their minds are open to change. Above all else Krii form deep friendships with Fey and believe the pixies to be children of the stars, like themselves.

Alignment: Krii often lean towards a chaotic nature, simply because they have no daily tasks they need to tend to. Krii are like humans in that they decide their own fate about good vs. evil, but many fall into the neutral category.

Society: Krii use their magical blood to perform the necessary things that might take other races a large portion of the day, they summon their food and other materials, and therefor can devote a large part of their time to revels and games.

Lands: Krii are mostly found on forests or plains, though they can live on mountains as well. Krii do not like to be underground for a large period of time because it disconnects them from the stars and moon, which they enjoy so dearly.

Religion: Krii usually do not pick a diety to worship, but if they ever do it is almost always Boccob. They believe that magic flows in everything and everyone, but mostly comes from the heavens above. They believe the stars are their friends and guardians, and often become scared when forced underground for long periods of time.

Language:Krii speak Kriish and Common, and can learn Auran, Celestial, Elven, Goblin, and Sylvan. Kriish is a fast-spoken language that uses the Elven alphabet.

Adventures: Krii often set out on their own for excitement or to learn more about the magical world that surrounds them.

Racial Traits v1
+2 Charisma, -2 Constitution: Krii are inherently charming, but frail
Small:As a Small creature, a krii gains a +1 size bonus to Armor Class, a +1 size bonus on attack rolls, and a +4 size bonus on Hide checks, but he uses smaller weapons than humans use, and his lifting and carrying limits are three-quarters of those of a Medium character.
Base land speed 20ft
Low-light vision: A krii can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. He retains the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions.
Weapon Proficiency: krii receive the Martial Weapon Proficiency feat for Kukris and Scimitars
Afraid of Underground: Krii love the stars and moon very much. If they spend a night underground or another place where they can't view the sky they take a -1 penalty on all attack rolls and saves. This penalty is lifted the first night a krii spends on the surface.
+2 racial bonus on saving throws against spells and spell-like abilities.
+1 DC on saves vs. Enchantments cast by krii.
+2 racial bonus on Knowledge[Arcana] checks.
+2 racial bonus on Spellcraft checks.
Favored class: Sorcerer

Racial Traits v2
+2 Charisma, -2 Constitution: Krii are inherently charming, but frail
Small:As a Small creature, a krii gains a +1 size bonus to Armor Class, a +1 size bonus on attack rolls, and a +4 size bonus on Hide checks, but he uses smaller weapons than humans use, and his lifting and carrying limits are three-quarters of those of a Medium character.
Base land speed 30ft:Though krii are not overly dexterous they are very fast for their size.
Low-light vision: A krii can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. He retains the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions.
Weapon Proficiency: krii receive the Martial Weapon Proficiency feat for Kukris and Scimitars
Afraid of Underground: Krii love the stars and moon very much. If they spend a night underground or another place where they can't view the sky they take a -1 penalty on all attack rolls and saves. This penalty is lifted the first night a krii spends on the surface.
+2 racial bonus on saving throws against spells and spell-like abilities.
+2 racial bonus on Spot and Listen checks.
Favored Class:Sorcerer

I added version 2 to broaden the focus instead of having it be on just spellcasting. They move faster, have different skill bonuses related to being awake at night, and I took off the DC bonus.
What do you guys think?
calronmoonflower
08-12-07, 09:07 PM Well it seems mostly balanced, but technically getting a +2 bonus on three or more skills should get you a +1 level adjustment.

Nix the hide bonus (they get a bonus for size already) and change the perform bonus to one subset the that skill.
Lawlicron
08-12-07, 09:20 PM This needs an LA+1 for sure and is pushing toward LA+2. It has unbalanced ability scores, too many bonuses on skills, a faster movement speed than a creature of its size should have, and they receive the martial pro feats instead of just having weapon familiarity. So yeah, they need LA+1 at least and they probably push LA+2 in some regards.
calronmoonflower
08-12-07, 09:51 PM This needs an LA+1 for sure and is pushing toward LA+2.

I disagree. from the rules in the Savage Species it would be technically a +1, but not as powerful as some like the draconic template.

It has unbalanced ability scores,

by the rules in the Dungeon master's Guide the ability scores are balanced. Metal physical score penalties are worth 2 mental score bonuses.

too many bonuses on skills,

I agree on this one.

a faster movement speed than a creature of its size should have,

Like a kobold. It does counter balance the normal -1 adjustment that small creatures normally get with a little drawback left over.

and they receive the martial pro feats instead of just having weapon familiarity.

Like elves get four weapon proficiencies for free, but it is another plus.

So yeah, they need LA+1 at least and they probably push LA+2 in some regards.

It is quite solidly a plus 1 race, but from only the skill bonuses. The speed boost for smaller creature however, might be a bit much as halflings also have save bonuses and 20 feet base land speed.

Well I've looked it over again and that +1 DC on spells is would most likely push it up a bit. Getting rid of the speed bonus for small creatures, nix the hide bonus, and reduce the perform bonus to one unfixed skill subset should make it a +0 race.
Baernwulf_of_Nor
08-13-07, 02:48 AM Ok its edited. But i don't think they were that powerful to begin with.

Elves get +2 on spot, search and listen (3 skills) and have proficiency with 4 weapons. Gnomes can actually CAST spells. Dwarves get at least +2 vs almost everything and +2 to anything related to stone. halflings get +2 to 4 skills.

So honestly, I don't know where this +2 to 3 skills is coming from. Furthermore, out of all the races I've seen, this is the only one that has penalties other than its ability score.

So I made the changes, but I'm gonna sleep on it and in the morning see if I can't make these guys better/ make more sense.

BoN
FponkDamn
08-13-07, 03:08 AM They most certainly need to be LA of +1. The bonus on skills is nice, but not amazing (and in line with some of the other races'). The martial weapon proficiency is nice, too (but again, similar to the elves'). What pushes it over, however, is the ability score adjustments and DC boost. In this case, the bonuses far outweigh the penalties.

The bonuses to Int and Cha, the small size, the favored class and the bonus on Enchantment DCs means that this race will certainly not be a fighter. More likely a sorcerer, bard, or maybe even a wizard. As such, the penalty to strength is next to meaningless, since they will rarely, if ever, need it as such a character. The Krii aren't going to be warriors. So you really should look at it as though the only stat adjustments are bonuses.

There are a few minor tweaks you could make to keep this a +0 LA race. One, make the penalty not to strength, but to con. This makes it actually a penalty (as every class needs con to some degree) and lines them up with elves somewhat more (as they seem to be closer to elves than gnomes in many ways). Or, keep the penalty to strength but nix the bonus to int. Very little in their description made it seem like they'd be smarter than humans - more charismatic, maybe, but their laid-back nature makes it seem unlikely that they'd be particularly studious. +2 Cha, -2 Strength seems a bit unbalanced on the bad side, but for a race that clearly wants to be a sorcerer, it's all up.

Lastly, that starlight-related penalty should be reworked somewhat. Use the "light sensitivity" drawback as a guideline - 10 days without the stars is such a wide margin that it seems like the drawback will never come into play. It should probably be more along the lines of "in any day where the krii has not seen the stars in the previos night." So as long as they got to be outside a little, they'd be fine - but they wouldn't like spending more than a night underground.

So with a reworked drawback and either +2 Cha/-2 Str or +2 Cha+Int/-2 Con, they look like they'd squeeze in at LA of +0 with their other cool abilties (like +2 on saves, DC bonus, etc.).

Neat race, by the way.

- Johnny
calronmoonflower
08-13-07, 03:59 AM Ok its edited. But i don't think they were that powerful to begin with.

I can see where you are coming from on that.

Elves get +2 on spot, search and listen (3 skills)

I've never seen it directly stated anywhere, but the spot and search bonuses tend to be grouped together.

Note that humans get +4 divided any way they want it and get more with higher levels.

So honestly, I don't know where this +2 to 3 skills is coming from.

Savage Species page 12.

Furthermore, out of all the races I've seen, this is the only one that has penalties other than its ability score.

The penalty is minor, but quite suited for role playing.
Lawlicron
08-13-07, 08:55 AM by the rules in the Dungeon master's Guide the ability scores are balanced. Metal physical score penalties are worth 2 mental score bonuses.

Please don't reference the DMG. Its ability score balancing system is flawed. I think they wrote it before they knew casters were good. Same with Savage species to an extent, its a 3.0 book that got released somewhere between 3.5 and 3.0. If you really need a system to quote by (That works) use YabaTheWhat's feature point system.

But the race is still has unbalanced ability scores. It nets a +2 when it should break even at LA+0. I agree with FponkDamn to just get rid of the int bonus. It makes sense and doesn't change much besides balancing them.
Baernwulf_of_Nor
08-13-07, 03:09 PM I don't think the ability scores are unbalanced, most races have physical modifiers because they are impact the PC more directly, better AC, more attack/damage, and better health. These guys are trading Fort saves and health for more skill points, and unless you pick bard or sorcerer cha is reduced to giving +1 bonuses on very certain things and is usually the dump stat.

I added v2 for a more generalized version of the race. I just really like the idea of a small race that moves 30ft.

BoN
Lawlicron
08-13-07, 06:26 PM Ok I get it that you think the physical stats are more important.

Now lets take a step back, we aren't playing D20 Modern, we aren't playing Star Wars RPG, we're playing DnD. In DnD the mental stats are worth the same as the physical ones because people can cast spells.

These guys will rarely face a situation were their negative to con will matter because of their small size (harder to hit) and fast movement (harder to catch). Yes they will have fewer hit points and be worse at fort saves. And I understand that their bonus to Cha will only help if they are bards or sorcerers, and maybe a social rogue. But I don't see a situation where someone will see this race and think "I should make this into a good fighter!". They will mostly see a good sorcerer, bard, or social rogue (who will benefit a good deal from the intelligence bonus as well). They either need an LA to account for this or need to be toned down.

Also the argument that charisma is a stat to be dumped is not a valid one. I understand people dump charisma all the time and plenty of races submitted to these boards have a negative to charisma to help "balance" them out, it doesn't really. It just makes them pigeoned holed into doing one thing and doing it incredibly well and thusly unbalancing the game. This race is the opposite though. Because you think Charisma isn't worth anything they get to be better at social situations and spellcasting based on charisma because the player is going to make charisma his dump stat every time right? Like sorcerers optimize by putting 8s in their charisma right?
Baernwulf_of_Nor
08-13-07, 08:59 PM Also the argument that charisma is a stat to be dumped is not a valid one.

Strength adds damage and attack, dex adds AC ranged and reflex, con adds health and fort, int adds skill points, wisdom adds will..
Unless a class uses charisma specifically for something it simply adds bonuses to skills, which intelligence can do as well, and usually ends up adding more points in the long run. But we're not here to argue about Charisma so I apologize.

What if I took off charisma and left intelligence? To me it seems a race would be more likely to be inherently smart than charming.

BoN
ToastedAmphibian
08-13-07, 09:21 PM Im not really seeing a tendency for intelligence. Chaotic, impatient, easily bored, natural sorcerers... Seems like charisma would be a better fit. Also they seem to have a large distast for races that have low charisma, which would make the most sense if they had high charisma (And thus, charismatic behaviour would be what they expect/are used to)
Lawlicron
08-13-07, 10:13 PM Strength adds damage and attack, dex adds AC ranged and reflex, con adds health and fort, int adds skill points, wisdom adds will..
Unless a class uses charisma specifically for something it simply adds bonuses to skills, which intelligence can do as well, and usually ends up adding more points in the long run. But we're not here to argue about Charisma so I apologize.

What if I took off charisma and left intelligence? To me it seems a race would be more likely to be inherently smart than charming.

BoN

Yes removing one of their bonuses would balance them.

But I think it should be the int bonus to go. I know it would be atrocious for your race to have the 'dump' stat as the stat it gets a bonus to. So maybe instead you could just tack on -2 to strength I mean they are small. Smaller races usually aren't as strong so it would make sense.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Baernwulf_of_Nor 08-12-07, 08:52 PM	(Pronounced "kree") Krii, often speculated to be an ancient cross between elves and gnomes, though they insist they are their own race, have a deep connection with magic and use it in everyday activities. Most children in an all Krii society are trained to channel the power within them from a very early age. Krii also love the stars and moon, and are often found at night dancing under the stars. Personality: Krii are a playful and quick witted race. They love games, parties, and mischief. They are surprisingly impatient for the long lifespan. Krii believe all problems have at least two ways of going about it, and frown upon brutish tactics and threats. All Krii are inherently lazy when it comes to chores, but that fluctuates depending on where they grow up. Physical Description: Krii are slim, with pale skin and stand about 4' tall. They have slighly angular features, much like that of a half elf, even though they grow little facial hair, they also have extremely long and pointed ears, even more-so than the elves. It is extremely rare to find a Krii who's natural hair color is not jet-black, though many Krii women dye their hair. The majority put colorful beads or tie colorful ribbons around certain locks of hair to give it at least some color. Many chose colors that match/go well with their eye color, which varies widely and can be any color imaginable. Relations: Krii get along well with humans due to the spontaneous and exuberant nature of both races. They don't see eye-to-eye with dwarves or half-orcs, who they see as grumbling and brutish. Krii form individual relatioships with Gnomes, Halflings, and Half-Elves. They consider elves slightly boring at first meeting, but their minds are open to change. Above all else Krii form deep friendships with Fey and believe the pixies to be children of the stars, like themselves. Alignment: Krii often lean towards a chaotic nature, simply because they have no daily tasks they need to tend to. Krii are like humans in that they decide their own fate about good vs. evil, but many fall into the neutral category. Society: Krii use their magical blood to perform the necessary things that might take other races a large portion of the day, they summon their food and other materials, and therefor can devote a large part of their time to revels and games. Lands: Krii are mostly found on forests or plains, though they can live on mountains as well. Krii do not like to be underground for a large period of time because it disconnects them from the stars and moon, which they enjoy so dearly. Religion: Krii usually do not pick a diety to worship, but if they ever do it is almost always Boccob. They believe that magic flows in everything and everyone, but mostly comes from the heavens above. They believe the stars are their friends and guardians, and often become scared when forced underground for long periods of time. Language:Krii speak Kriish and Common, and can learn Auran, Celestial, Elven, Goblin, and Sylvan. Kriish is a fast-spoken language that uses the Elven alphabet. Adventures: Krii often set out on their own for excitement or to learn more about the magical world that surrounds them. Racial Traits v1 +2 Charisma, -2 Constitution: Krii are inherently charming, but frail Small:As a Small creature, a krii gains a +1 size bonus to Armor Class, a +1 size bonus on attack rolls, and a +4 size bonus on Hide checks, but he uses smaller weapons than humans use, and his lifting and carrying limits are three-quarters of those of a Medium character. Base land speed 20ft Low-light vision: A krii can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. He retains the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions. Weapon Proficiency: krii receive the Martial Weapon Proficiency feat for Kukris and Scimitars Afraid of Underground: Krii love the stars and moon very much. If they spend a night underground or another place where they can't view the sky they take a -1 penalty on all attack rolls and saves. This penalty is lifted the first night a krii spends on the surface. +2 racial bonus on saving throws against spells and spell-like abilities. +1 DC on saves vs. Enchantments cast by krii. +2 racial bonus on Knowledge[Arcana] checks. +2 racial bonus on Spellcraft checks. Favored class: Sorcerer Racial Traits v2 +2 Charisma, -2 Constitution: Krii are inherently charming, but frail Small:As a Small creature, a krii gains a +1 size bonus to Armor Class, a +1 size bonus on attack rolls, and a +4 size bonus on Hide checks, but he uses smaller weapons than humans use, and his lifting and carrying limits are three-quarters of those of a Medium character. Base land speed 30ft:Though krii are not overly dexterous they are very fast for their size. Low-light vision: A krii can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. He retains the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions. Weapon Proficiency: krii receive the Martial Weapon Proficiency feat for Kukris and Scimitars Afraid of Underground: Krii love the stars and moon very much. If they spend a night underground or another place where they can't view the sky they take a -1 penalty on all attack rolls and saves. This penalty is lifted the first night a krii spends on the surface. +2 racial bonus on saving throws against spells and spell-like abilities. +2 racial bonus on Spot and Listen checks. Favored Class:Sorcerer I added version 2 to broaden the focus instead of having it be on just spellcasting. They move faster, have different skill bonuses related to being awake at night, and I took off the DC bonus. What do you guys think?
calronmoonflower 08-12-07, 09:07 PM	Well it seems mostly balanced, but technically getting a +2 bonus on three or more skills should get you a +1 level adjustment. Nix the hide bonus (they get a bonus for size already) and change the perform bonus to one subset the that skill.
Lawlicron 08-12-07, 09:20 PM	This needs an LA+1 for sure and is pushing toward LA+2. It has unbalanced ability scores, too many bonuses on skills, a faster movement speed than a creature of its size should have, and they receive the martial pro feats instead of just having weapon familiarity. So yeah, they need LA+1 at least and they probably push LA+2 in some regards.
calronmoonflower 08-12-07, 09:51 PM	This needs an LA+1 for sure and is pushing toward LA+2. I disagree. from the rules in the Savage Species it would be technically a +1, but not as powerful as some like the draconic template. It has unbalanced ability scores, by the rules in the Dungeon master's Guide the ability scores are balanced. Metal physical score penalties are worth 2 mental score bonuses. too many bonuses on skills, I agree on this one. a faster movement speed than a creature of its size should have, Like a kobold. It does counter balance the normal -1 adjustment that small creatures normally get with a little drawback left over. and they receive the martial pro feats instead of just having weapon familiarity. Like elves get four weapon proficiencies for free, but it is another plus. So yeah, they need LA+1 at least and they probably push LA+2 in some regards. It is quite solidly a plus 1 race, but from only the skill bonuses. The speed boost for smaller creature however, might be a bit much as halflings also have save bonuses and 20 feet base land speed. Well I've looked it over again and that +1 DC on spells is would most likely push it up a bit. Getting rid of the speed bonus for small creatures, nix the hide bonus, and reduce the perform bonus to one unfixed skill subset should make it a +0 race.
Baernwulf_of_Nor 08-13-07, 02:48 AM	Ok its edited. But i don't think they were that powerful to begin with. Elves get +2 on spot, search and listen (3 skills) and have proficiency with 4 weapons. Gnomes can actually CAST spells. Dwarves get at least +2 vs almost everything and +2 to anything related to stone. halflings get +2 to 4 skills. So honestly, I don't know where this +2 to 3 skills is coming from. Furthermore, out of all the races I've seen, this is the only one that has penalties other than its ability score. So I made the changes, but I'm gonna sleep on it and in the morning see if I can't make these guys better/ make more sense. BoN
FponkDamn 08-13-07, 03:08 AM	They most certainly need to be LA of +1. The bonus on skills is nice, but not amazing (and in line with some of the other races'). The martial weapon proficiency is nice, too (but again, similar to the elves'). What pushes it over, however, is the ability score adjustments and DC boost. In this case, the bonuses far outweigh the penalties. The bonuses to Int and Cha, the small size, the favored class and the bonus on Enchantment DCs means that this race will certainly not be a fighter. More likely a sorcerer, bard, or maybe even a wizard. As such, the penalty to strength is next to meaningless, since they will rarely, if ever, need it as such a character. The Krii aren't going to be warriors. So you really should look at it as though the only stat adjustments are bonuses. There are a few minor tweaks you could make to keep this a +0 LA race. One, make the penalty not to strength, but to con. This makes it actually a penalty (as every class needs con to some degree) and lines them up with elves somewhat more (as they seem to be closer to elves than gnomes in many ways). Or, keep the penalty to strength but nix the bonus to int. Very little in their description made it seem like they'd be smarter than humans - more charismatic, maybe, but their laid-back nature makes it seem unlikely that they'd be particularly studious. +2 Cha, -2 Strength seems a bit unbalanced on the bad side, but for a race that clearly wants to be a sorcerer, it's all up. Lastly, that starlight-related penalty should be reworked somewhat. Use the "light sensitivity" drawback as a guideline - 10 days without the stars is such a wide margin that it seems like the drawback will never come into play. It should probably be more along the lines of "in any day where the krii has not seen the stars in the previos night." So as long as they got to be outside a little, they'd be fine - but they wouldn't like spending more than a night underground. So with a reworked drawback and either +2 Cha/-2 Str or +2 Cha+Int/-2 Con, they look like they'd squeeze in at LA of +0 with their other cool abilties (like +2 on saves, DC bonus, etc.). Neat race, by the way. - Johnny
calronmoonflower 08-13-07, 03:59 AM	Ok its edited. But i don't think they were that powerful to begin with. I can see where you are coming from on that. Elves get +2 on spot, search and listen (3 skills) I've never seen it directly stated anywhere, but the spot and search bonuses tend to be grouped together. Note that humans get +4 divided any way they want it and get more with higher levels. So honestly, I don't know where this +2 to 3 skills is coming from. Savage Species page 12. Furthermore, out of all the races I've seen, this is the only one that has penalties other than its ability score. The penalty is minor, but quite suited for role playing.
Lawlicron 08-13-07, 08:55 AM	by the rules in the Dungeon master's Guide the ability scores are balanced. Metal physical score penalties are worth 2 mental score bonuses. Please don't reference the DMG. Its ability score balancing system is flawed. I think they wrote it before they knew casters were good. Same with Savage species to an extent, its a 3.0 book that got released somewhere between 3.5 and 3.0. If you really need a system to quote by (That works) use YabaTheWhat's feature point system. But the race is still has unbalanced ability scores. It nets a +2 when it should break even at LA+0. I agree with FponkDamn to just get rid of the int bonus. It makes sense and doesn't change much besides balancing them.
Baernwulf_of_Nor 08-13-07, 03:09 PM	I don't think the ability scores are unbalanced, most races have physical modifiers because they are impact the PC more directly, better AC, more attack/damage, and better health. These guys are trading Fort saves and health for more skill points, and unless you pick bard or sorcerer cha is reduced to giving +1 bonuses on very certain things and is usually the dump stat. I added v2 for a more generalized version of the race. I just really like the idea of a small race that moves 30ft. BoN
Lawlicron 08-13-07, 06:26 PM	Ok I get it that you think the physical stats are more important. Now lets take a step back, we aren't playing D20 Modern, we aren't playing Star Wars RPG, we're playing DnD. In DnD the mental stats are worth the same as the physical ones because people can cast spells. These guys will rarely face a situation were their negative to con will matter because of their small size (harder to hit) and fast movement (harder to catch). Yes they will have fewer hit points and be worse at fort saves. And I understand that their bonus to Cha will only help if they are bards or sorcerers, and maybe a social rogue. But I don't see a situation where someone will see this race and think "I should make this into a good fighter!". They will mostly see a good sorcerer, bard, or social rogue (who will benefit a good deal from the intelligence bonus as well). They either need an LA to account for this or need to be toned down. Also the argument that charisma is a stat to be dumped is not a valid one. I understand people dump charisma all the time and plenty of races submitted to these boards have a negative to charisma to help "balance" them out, it doesn't really. It just makes them pigeoned holed into doing one thing and doing it incredibly well and thusly unbalancing the game. This race is the opposite though. Because you think Charisma isn't worth anything they get to be better at social situations and spellcasting based on charisma because the player is going to make charisma his dump stat every time right? Like sorcerers optimize by putting 8s in their charisma right?
Baernwulf_of_Nor 08-13-07, 08:59 PM	Also the argument that charisma is a stat to be dumped is not a valid one. Strength adds damage and attack, dex adds AC ranged and reflex, con adds health and fort, int adds skill points, wisdom adds will.. Unless a class uses charisma specifically for something it simply adds bonuses to skills, which intelligence can do as well, and usually ends up adding more points in the long run. But we're not here to argue about Charisma so I apologize. What if I took off charisma and left intelligence? To me it seems a race would be more likely to be inherently smart than charming. BoN
ToastedAmphibian 08-13-07, 09:21 PM	Im not really seeing a tendency for intelligence. Chaotic, impatient, easily bored, natural sorcerers... Seems like charisma would be a better fit. Also they seem to have a large distast for races that have low charisma, which would make the most sense if they had high charisma (And thus, charismatic behaviour would be what they expect/are used to)
Lawlicron 08-13-07, 10:13 PM	Strength adds damage and attack, dex adds AC ranged and reflex, con adds health and fort, int adds skill points, wisdom adds will.. Unless a class uses charisma specifically for something it simply adds bonuses to skills, which intelligence can do as well, and usually ends up adding more points in the long run. But we're not here to argue about Charisma so I apologize. What if I took off charisma and left intelligence? To me it seems a race would be more likely to be inherently smart than charming. BoN Yes removing one of their bonuses would balance them. But I think it should be the int bonus to go. I know it would be atrocious for your race to have the 'dump' stat as the stat it gets a bonus to. So maybe instead you could just tack on -2 to strength I mean they are small. Smaller races usually aren't as strong so it would make sense.