Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Nat_20 06-04-07, 12:41 PM	I am working on a campaign and have made this race for an area of good aligned people who are on peaceful terms with the orcs, cuz in my setting half orcs don't exist. What do you think of these racial junk Size, Medium +4 Str, -2 Dex, -2 Int Silver Orcs are strong but can be quite slow. Darkvision 60' feet, can perform fine without light. +2 bonus to any Craft check, Kru'vash are natural craftsmen. +2 to Climb, Jump, and Swim, their strong bodies are good at physical activity. +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls against giants, living in the mountains surrounding the farming heartland of Everhearth, Kru'vash battle these creatures on a regular basis, even hunting down and killing them for sport. Gain weapon proficiency with all Kru'vash weaponry. Gain Track as a bonus feat. Favored Multiclass: Barbarian Physical: These mountain dwelling nomads resemble their beastly cousins, but only in their built bodies. Their faces are more like that of a human, but with and overbite, larger noses, more pronounces jaw line with large canines, their more interesting feature are their eyes. Instead of white, these orcs have a profound silvery, almost reflective color to their eyes, with eye color ranging from common brown to brilliant green and blue. Silver orcs bodies are very much like that of the humans with a few exceptions. Silver orcs have a gray or white skin color, females more commonly having white, and the facial features described above. The females of the race are actually know for great beauty, having the same physique as a human woman, but obviously more built. Children have all feature described, but age faster and have the large build of the race, just more slight. The Kru'vash form tight tribes, formed by as few as 3 to as many as 50 families or more. I have more fluff, but think the rest is not really needed. What do you think???
Pfisiar 06-04-07, 12:44 PM	I like the flavor of this race and I think it makes a great deal of sense. The skill bonus checks are particularly well thought out. The +4 strength, even with -dex and int could be dodgey. But I don't think it would be too big a deal, to be honest.
Nat_20 06-04-07, 04:58 PM	The +4 strength, even with -dex and int could be dodgey. But I don't think it would be too big a deal, to be honest. well, i read that mental stats aren't worth as much as physical stats, so half and half seemed reasonable plus, i wanted this race to be good with favored souls and paladins, since in some areas of my campaign the Silver orcs are fighting the regular orcs with Crusade like devotion and there will be some high level NPC's that will lead the charge who are divine solders of Karrianna the Silver, god of the silver orcs, and also the sister and sworn enemy of Grummish
Thomar_of_Uointer 06-04-07, 10:37 PM	I am working on a campaign and have made this race for an area of good aligned people who are on peaceful terms with the orcs, cuz in my setting half orcs don't exist. What do you think of these racial junk Size, Medium +4 Str, -2 Dex, -2 Int Silver Orcs are strong but can be quite slow. Darkvision 60' feet, can perform fine without light. +2 bonus to any Craft check, Kru'vash are natural craftsmen. +2 to Climb, Jump, and Swim, their strong bodies are good at physical activity. +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls against giants, living in the mountains surrounding the farming heartland of Everhearth, Kru'vash battle these creatures on a regular basis, even hunting down and killing them for sport. Gain weapon proficiency with all Kru'vash weaponry. Gain Track as a bonus feat. Favored Multiclass: Barbarian Physical: These mountain dwelling nomads resemble their beastly cousins, but only in their built bodies. Their faces are more like that of a human, but with and overbite, larger noses, more pronounces jaw line with large canines, their more interesting feature are their eyes. Instead of white, these orcs have a profound silvery, almost reflective color to their eyes, with eye color ranging from common brown to brilliant green and blue. Silver orcs bodies are very much like that of the humans with a few exceptions. Silver orcs have a gray or white skin color, females more commonly having white, and the facial features described above. The females of the race are actually know for great beauty, having the same physique as a human woman, but obviously more built. Children have all feature described, but age faster and have the large build of the race, just more slight. The Kru'vash form tight tribes, formed by as few as 3 to as many as 50 families or more. I have more fluff, but think the rest is not really needed. What do you think??? Overpowered. Highly min-maxxy. Drop it to +2 Str. Otherwise, it looks like you have a very nice race there (if a little one-sided). In my opinion, races should always have something that makes them not quite perfect for several roles simultaneously (so as not to compete with humans). Elves and gnomes are good examples of this.
Nat_20 06-04-07, 11:30 PM	How is it min maxing???? All i did was make a race that makes a good fighter, make a good orc race, i like orcs and dont like the fact that all they are is a +4 Str guy and nothing else, im giving them a little boost....
Thomar_of_Uointer 06-05-07, 12:31 AM	How is it min maxing???? All i did was make a race that makes a good fighter, make a good orc race, i like orcs and dont like the fact that all they are is a +4 Str guy and nothing else, im giving them a little boost.... I don't think the orc's and half-orc's problem is unbalanced ability scores. The problem is that they make better fighters and barbarians than humans do. Can you address that?
Rerecros 06-05-07, 12:53 AM	They look fine to me, but what the heck is "Kru'vash weaponry"?
Darth Sephiroth 06-05-07, 01:30 AM	I don't think the orc's and half-orc's problem is unbalanced ability scores. The problem is that they make better fighters and barbarians than humans do. Can you address that? Personally, these ones seem to match humans. They may be a bit stronger than a human at 1st level, but that seems to be rather balanced. The -2 Int means they get several fewer skill points which get matched at 1st level, but the humans skills keep going. +4 Strength is powerful, but when paired up with the Int penalty and a Dex penalty it comes out about right. The craft skill bonus isn't really that helpful as Crafting isn't that effective, but it could easily be limited to a single Craft skill. The bonus' to Climb, Jump, and Swim are somewhat powerful, but not that effective at later levels. Darkvision is a decent thing. Requiring Track isn't as good as a free bonus feat, but the extra proficiencies balance that out to an extent and the loss of choice with a favored class completely fills that gap.
belly120 06-05-07, 06:07 AM	i'd drop the skill bonuses as the big str bonus already boosts those skills and give them +2 on survival as they live in the mountains. i'd say favoured class ranger, its more suitable to their enviroment. also what about low light vision instead of dark vision then you can justify the loss of light sensitivity. the rest i like especially the whole anti grumish thing very cool
Ogrebear 06-05-07, 08:40 AM	These Orcs work quite well- I like the flavour and fluff. Nice changes to the standard MM monster, very well done. Do Sliver Orcs have a Favoured Class? What's Favoured Multiclass mean? (I may have missed a 3.5 memo somewhere on this so please remind me). How do these Orcs interact with the other races/cultures? You mentioned they 'crusade' against standard Orcs and are 'good' how do say the Dwarves react to them? What's the role of women in Sliver Orc soceity?
Pfisiar 06-05-07, 08:47 AM	They look fine to me, but what the heck is "Kru'vash weaponry"? I imagine that the OP was trying to create a new campaign world and that the weaponry would be part of that new campaign world. It would also work, I think, kind of like the Gnome hooked hammers or what have you.
AAB 06-05-07, 11:15 AM	this reminds me a lot of the elder scrolls version of orcs. i kinda like it.
Nat_20 06-05-07, 10:05 PM	They look fine to me, but what the heck is "Kru'vash weaponry"? I have a list of exotic weapons that this race have developed and use on a regular basis, one of my favorites is the Kru'vash Fury Blade. Exotic two-handed weapon, 2d8 bludgeoning, x3 crit, 10 hardness and 15 hit points, 60 GP and 15lbs, i have like 4 other weapons right now, two of which seem to powerfull. These Orcs work quite well- I like the flavour and fluff. Nice changes to the standard MM monster, very well done. Do Sliver Orcs have a Favoured Class? What's Favoured Multiclass mean? (I may have missed a 3.5 memo somewhere on this so please remind me). How do these Orcs interact with the other races/cultures? You mentioned they 'crusade' against standard Orcs and are 'good' how do say the Dwarves react to them? What's the role of women in Sliver Orc soceity? I meant to put Favored class, sorry... And they are allies with the elves and Dwarves in their fights with the regular orcs and have been known to participate in defense against drow raiding parties... though the Dwarves have a kinda rivalry against the Kru'Vash for best armorers of the land... And Women in the society are equals and some tribes have them as more powerful... and they act has home guards and huntress's, i was gonna have females favored class be ranger but im just keeping Barb for it. this reminds me a lot of the elder scrolls version of orcs. i kinda like it. in the way they are social people with other races and on friendly terms i guess...
AAB 06-05-07, 10:12 PM	and good at crafting.
Nat_20 06-05-07, 10:31 PM	you got me there...
AAB 06-05-07, 10:39 PM	hey, btw, where in MN are you?
Nat_20 06-06-07, 01:41 PM	in the south western tip of it, but thats kinda off topic, next time P message questions like that So does this race seem balanced, the big thing about the race is the fact that only one mental stat is hit so decent druids and sorcerers can be made with it and i like the i idea of beating in someones face with a huge sword then ether mauling them with a bear or frying them with a fireball to the face, or just go straight martial class and crush some skulls... you know? But any complaints on this being a core race for my campaign???
Regden 06-06-07, 01:58 PM	Honestly I see no prob with what you have done to this core race. Its for YOUR campaign all we do is give our opinion. When it comes right down to it, the choice is YOURS. Personally I'm thinking of adding this to my campaign world as well. edit: Any chance you could e-mail me all the info you have for this new race please.
Nat_20 06-06-07, 02:16 PM	I wrote most of it on paper but gimme like a day or two and i could type it out. i will post it on the thread in due time.
Nat_20 06-06-07, 03:55 PM	Kru'Vash, The Silver Orcs. To first under stand the origins of the Silver Orcs, you must know a little bit of Sharrkain history. Sharrkain is an island continent roughly the size of Australia. In the center of the land is the Everhearth. A large expanse of wild lands, of plains and forests. Humans have settled here over 1000 years ago and have made the 5 Kingdoms that rule the land. Surrounding the Everhearth on the north and east sides is the Savage wilds of the Morrika Hights. These Hills are untamed and many adventurers have found their untimely ends here. This is the land of Kru'vash, the Silver orcs. A proud warrior race that have made their home in the some of the most dangerous land in the realm. Karrianna the Silver, the Goddess and protector of the Silver Orcs, and half sister of Grummish, was said to have created the Kru'vash as guardians for this infant continent. Though not much evidence is know of how long the Orcs have been on the land here, but one thing is certain, they are one of the oldest inhabitants of this land. They once had a grand kingdom, spreading over most off the Northeast section of the island. At some point in history, it is said that some began to warship Grummish and turned against their brethren. These orcs fell out of favor with Karrianna the Silver, and became the evil orcs known today, known as the Thrast to the Silver orcs. In orcish, this translates to "desecrated". Civil war soon tore the nation apart. many cities where burnt to the ground and both took heavy losses. after centuries of conflicts, the one great nation was destroyed, and both Kru'vash and Thrast where spread throughout the continent. The Kru'vash found home in the mountains of Morrika. The Thrast found homes in the southwest, the desert known as the Filath Wastes. The races attack each other with utter hatred and to the death. Today there is actually two variation's of Kru'vash. The common Silver Orcs and the Crested Silver Orcs. These rare orcs are said to be chosen by Karrianna the Silver herself to lead the Kru'vash. They are physically similar to the common Kru'vash, but have a bright, bleached white skin tone and distinctive marking on their faces. Rarely are these Crested Orcs born, probably one in ten-thousand, but all of them are female and become great tribe leaders. Physically they are smarter, and faster than common Kru'vash. Physical: These mountain dwelling nomads resemble their beastly cousins, but only in their built bodies. Their faces are more like that of a human, but with and overbite, larger noses, more pronounces jaw line with large canines, their more interesting feature are their eyes. Instead of white, these orcs have a profound silvery, almost reflective color to their eyes, with eye color ranging from common brown to brilliant green and blue. Silver orcs bodies are very much like that of the humans with a few exceptions. Silver orcs have a gray or white skin color. The females of the race are actually know for great beauty, having the same physique as a human woman, but obviously more built. Children have all feature described, but age faster and have the large build of the race, just more slight. Adult hood begins at about 16, and the Kru'vash life span is about the same as the humans, with the Crested Orcs being an exception, who can live up to 200 years. Culture: The Kru'vash form tight tribes, formed by as few as 3 to as many as 50 families or more. The most powerful tribe is know as the Vistalts. This tribe is lead by Dorrakis Kol'gosh, a Crested Silver orc female Paladin who leads in the war against the Thrast. Each tribe is its own village, having a circle of elders make decisions for the tribe. Each tribe stays with their own, but trade and defense are common with different tribes. Personality: Generally, the Kru'vash will get along with anyone they like, and are good with other people, but have a great sense of pride and if insulted, or if ones tribe is insulted, Kru'vash intensely defend their honor, often by bloodying the offender. Kru'vash have been known to be very patient and make good teachers for young warriors of any race. Kru'Vash Weaponry: Kru'Vash Fury Blade. This weapon looks like a greatsword, but has no keen blade, instead it had a reinforced flat head that is used to crush anything unlucky enough to be caught in its path. Exotic two-handed weapon, 2d8 bludgeoning, x3 crit, 10 hardness and 15 hit points, 60 GP and 15lbs. Kru'Vash Dead hook. This weapon is a long wooden pole with a scythe like blade at the end. Exotic two-handed polearm, reach weapon, 1d12 slashing damage, X2 crit, 5 hardness and 10 hit points, 20 GP and 7 lbs. Can make trip attempts with a +2 bonus. Kru'Vash Giantshot. Same as the Great Crossbow from Races of Stone. Kru'Vash Koulishond. This long bladed weapon looks like a longsword, but is thinner and and sharper. Exotic one-handed weapon, 1d8 slashing damage, 17-20 X2 crit, but after 15 succesful attack rolls, the keen blade becomes dull and critical threat range changes to 20 until sharpened with a Craft(weaponsmithing) check of DC 20. 10 hardness and 5 hit points, 70 GP and 3lbs. Common Kru'vash (only kind PC's can be, and i changed them a little bit) +4 Str, -2 Dex, -2 Int Silver Orcs are strong but have bluky bodies less book smarts. Darkvision superior low light vision, can see 3 times as far as a human in tourch and moon light. Being hunters, the race has adapted to hunting at night. +2 bonus to any Craft check, Kru'vash are natural craftsmen. +2 to Climb and Jump checks, their strong bodies are good at physical activity, esspecially climbing their mountain home. +2 to Spot checks, Silver orcs have keen eye sight. +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls against giants, living in the mountains surrounding the farming heartland of Everhearth, Kru'vash battle these creatures on a regular basis, even hunting down and killing them for sport. Gain weapon proficiency with all Kru'vash weaponry. Gain Track as a bonus feat. Favored Class: Barbarian Crested Kru'Vash (usable only under DMs discretion, if rarely) Kru'vash Silver Orcs. +4 Str, -2 Dex, +2 Con, +4 Cha Superior low light vision, can see 3 times as far as a human in torch and moon light. +2 bonus to any Craft checks. +4 to Climb and Jump checks +4 to Listen and Spot checks +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls against giants. Gain weapon proficiency with all Kru'vash weaponry. Gain Track as a bonus feat. Favored Class: Paladin Level Adjustment: +2 How do you like that? Anything you need that i didn't cover, just ask... i'll try to help.
AAB 06-06-07, 04:06 PM	this might have been brought up already, but i think that automatic proficiency in 3 exotic weapons is a little much. actually, a lot much. even with dwarves, they only treat the two exotic weapons as martial.
Nat_20 06-06-07, 04:37 PM	your right, im gonna change it to treat them as martial weapons.
Nat_20 06-10-07, 01:56 AM	:bump: :bump: :bump: Just wanted to get more commentary on the race... Sorry bout the multi posts
ArochanoX 06-10-07, 07:58 AM	Well +4 strenght is a bit too powerful compared to penaties of this race. The only LA 0 creature that has a +4 to one stat is Mongrelfolk from races of destiny. They have hefty penalties for having that +4 Con bonus. I'd drop the +4 Str to +2 and call it about balanced. If you really really want to keep the +4 Str, heighten the dexterity penalty to -4. That would balance things out overall, but still keeps the race open for minmaxing. Have you ever thought why there are almost none LA +0 races that have +4 on one ability? Because they are too easily abused and used for minmaxing. Otherwise the race seems to be quite normal, bland and even dull (mechanic-wise of course). They have little or no unique abilities, but instead they blend some minor, common abilities together pretty well. Good job!
Ryusage 06-10-07, 08:10 AM	Well done, Nat_20. You've created a race with both interesting flavour and balanced mechanics. Good job!:clap:
MasonMurdoc 06-10-07, 11:42 AM	This is brilliant. I don't see any problems at all. Mind if I use this in my campaign?
Nat_20 06-10-07, 01:15 PM	Well +4 strenght is a bit too powerful compared to penaties of this race. The only LA 0 creature that has a +4 to one stat is Mongrelfolk from races of destiny. They have hefty penalties for having that +4 Con bonus. I'd drop the +4 Str to +2 and call it about balanced. If you really really want to keep the +4 Str, heighten the dexterity penalty to -4. That would balance things out overall, but still keeps the race open for minmaxing. Have you ever thought why there are almost none LA +0 races that have +4 on one ability? Because they are too easily abused and used for minmaxing. Otherwise the race seems to be quite normal, bland and even dull (mechanic-wise of course). They have little or no unique abilities, but instead they blend some minor, common abilities together pretty well. Good job! Ummm, have you seen the normal Orc??? 0 Lvl Adj, +4 Str, need i say more? I just made them what they should have been flavor wise... This is brilliant. I don't see any problems at all. Mind if I use this in my campaign? Thank you much man, and i would be honored if you use it, P Message me on how it goes if you could, i wanna see how other people play them.... Well done, Nat_20. You've created a race with both interesting flavour and balanced mechanics. Good job!:clap: Thanks again... I personally love the way the race turned out and I like to see that others do to... hey, can someone give me the code so i can save this thread in my Sig and make it a link??? I dont know anything about HTML coding...
ArochanoX 06-10-07, 01:53 PM	Ummm, have you seen the normal Orc??? 0 Lvl Adj, +4 Str, need i say more? I just made them what they should have been flavor wise... Orcs have light sensitivity which is a quite hefty penalty: Almost always -1 to to hit rolls. And they have total of -6 ability modifiers on mental stats, which quite well (along with light sensitivity) balance orc out. Orc was meant to be an enemy creature, that's why they don't have any skill modifiers or other nice bonuses. How many races that appear solely in monster manuals have something like +2 on intimidate checks? I still think your race is a bit too powerful for a LA 0 race..
Rerecros 06-10-07, 02:15 PM	They are a balanced, well thought out race, good job :clap:
Nat_20 06-11-07, 01:21 AM	Orcs have light sensitivity which is a quite hefty penalty: Almost always -1 to to hit rolls. And they have total of -6 ability modifiers on mental stats, which quite well (along with light sensitivity) balance orc out. Orc was meant to be an enemy creature, that's why they don't have any skill modifiers or other nice bonuses. How many races that appear solely in monster manuals have something like +2 on intimidate checks? I still think your race is a bit too powerful for a LA 0 race.. It is a strong 0 Lvl race, the Dwarf is thought of as a powerful base rece and that has more than these guys... They are a balanced, well thought out race, good job :clap: God I love hearing that...
ArochanoX 06-11-07, 02:53 AM	Let's do some testing: Human fighter using a greatsword vs kruvash using the same weapon. AB in the table means total attack bonus. Human has taken weapon focus feat for his human bonus feat. All ability increases go to strenght and starting ability scores are 10 10 10 10 10 10. Lvl AB Dmg AB Dmg 1 +2 7 +3 10 2 +3 7 +4 10 3 +4 7 +5 10 4 +5 7 +6 10 5 +6 7 +7 10 6 +7 7 +8 10 7 +8 7 +9 10 8 +10 8 +11 11 9 +11 8 +12 11 10 +12 8 +13 11 11 +13 8 +14 11 12 +14 8 +15 11 13 +15 8 +16 11 14 +16 8 +17 11 15 +17 8 +18 11 16 +19 10 +20 13 17 +20 10 +21 13 18 +21 10 +22 13 19 +22 10 +23 13 20 +23 10 +24 13 Kruvash have Int- penalty but +6 well defined skill bonuses and craft skill bonuses (I count as +8 skill bonuses). Human has 3+character level extra skill points. The skill point difference is: lvl Human Kruvash 1 +4 +4 2 +5 +3 3 +6 +2 4 +7 +1 5 +8 0 6 +9 -1 7 +10 -2 8 +11 -3 9 +12 -4 10 +13 -5 So specifically at the lower levels, kruvash is on par with human, but later the difference cap widens. Luckily fighter archetypes require very few skill points :D AC of the kruvash will sadly be always 1 point lower than human's. Overall, the kruvash hits always 5% more accurately (in melee) to target, deals 3 points more damage per strike, but has 5% greater chance for being hit. Against giants the kruvash will be even more powerful. So the kruvash is more powerful fighter archetype than human will ever be. Sad eh? Powerful? Yes. Orcs have light sensitivity to offset this wide gap. This is why I think that kruvash are slightly too powerful for a LA 0 race.
Nat_20 06-11-07, 11:00 PM	But if you do the same for a Human Wizard and a Kru'Vash wizard, the human will have a higher save DC, more spells per day, and more skills... If you really wanna break it down, the Half-Orc will always hit harder and more often than a human and nobody really seems to mind, the same is true for the Kru'Vash... I guarantee that my players are still going to play humans and elves and what not... this race is just one of those who choose to play an interesting role play character and battle bad-ass... seems fine to me