Post/Author/DateTime	Post
frasmage 08-10-06, 07:14 PM	This was posted ages ago (lost to time), I am reposting it because I enterred the race in the 1001-race competition and it is good to leave place for people to comment on it (exooki doesn't want people to do so in the thread) This race is the 1st place winner of the first "1001-races workshop" race competition! (stamp of victory): Winner of ----/\----- 1001 ---_| |_--- Races Workshop Kytan http://do-ob.com/frogman.jpg Kytan are one race most zoologists conclude are the most out of place in terms of their usual habitat. Though most live in the unforgiving frozen desert of Morkar, a Kytan will naturally self-petrify if exposed to extreme cold. This natural defense mechanism is responsible for the many “statues” found across the frozen desert. The reason Kytan are almost exclusively found on this continent is that they were there long before the Great Frost, back when this area was a temperate continent. Since then they have become the standard slaves of the lords of the frost who now rule this forgotten continent. The lords of frost take joy in tormenting their slaves and will freeze (and retro-actively petrify them) any Kytan who misbehaves. Some of the more cruel lords will leave a garden of statues and only defrost a slave if there is job for it to fulfill. The Kytan are magically bound to the continent and find it difficult to leave. Not to mention the fact that even if one escapes its master, its chances of crossing the frost and remaining in flesh are quite low. Personality: Kytans are often very shy and a little clumsy, as they have been enslaved for centuries under the many cruel lords of frost. Despite this, Kytan have a tendency to be both curious and troublesome. More often than not, Kytans will be tempted to try anything that pops into their heads; even if such actions could (and often do) have serious repercussions. Kytan are generally reserved and quiet around others, but can become quite daring when no one (or no one who cares) is watching. This tendency has caused a lot of trouble for many of the enslaved Kytan, who may accidentally damage or break something of importance to their masters. Such actions are often rewarded with a long break… as a statue in their masters’ gardens. Regardless of how troublesome or reserved they are, Kytan are almost always good at heart. It is rare to see a Kytan with cruel intentions; even selfishness or greed are uncommon traits in Kytans. Physical Description: Kytans, at a comfortable stance, are between 3 ½ and 4 feet tall. If the stretch their frog-like legs, they can extend to about 5 feet tall. They generally weigh between 40 and 80 lbs. Their skin tone varies from yellow-brown to green. Kytans no necks and their heads project directly from between their shoulders. A long, agile tongue often escapes the Kytan’s mouth. Kytans have no hair on their bodies. Relations: Kytan are not very open to strangers, especially those of other races. It is not that they are unsure of the motives of others, but more often than not, they are simply shy. They prefer to stay quiet until they build trust with an individual. Once a Kytan builds a relationship other creatures, they will often be treated like family. Kytans tend to be friendlier towards humans, as they are the most commonly seen outsider race in Morkar. They also recognize gnomes and dwarves, who are fairly common in Morkar. Kytan usually mistake elves as humans and halflings for gnomes (or vice versa), having trouble recognizing the difference between these similar humanoids. Likewise, the occasional confused Kytan will mistake a halfing or gnome as a human youngling. Alignment: Kytan tend towards good. They are often fairly simple-minded and kind creatures. Kytan have little preference towards law or chaos. Though many are freedom fighters (a chaotic trait), Kytan often understand the need to for rules and readily follow commands (a lawful trait). Kytan Lands: Most Kytan live in Morkar, their native lands. A massive amount of the Kytan population is enslaved by the Lords of Frost, in the center of the continent. A good portion also lives in the many colonies on the shores of Morkar. Of course, Morkar is not the most hospitable home to cold weakened creatures. Many have emigrated elsewhere, though they usually live in minority wherever they go. The largest Kytan populations can be found in Caer and Ahmun. Religion: Ky is the central god of the Kytans. He stands for their freedom and their safety. A shrine or even a church of Ky can be found almost anywhere pockets of Kytan culture can be found. Kytan also worship Ky’s daughter Kysha, the Hearthmother. She is the protector of the Kytan and of the warmth essential to life. Those Kytan enslaved in Morkar may be mislead into believing that Kice is their protector god, though his true intentions are the exact opposite. Language: though most Kytan learn the common tongue, they also have a language of their own. This language, named Kytan by outsiders, consists of throaty noises resembling croaking sounds. This language is rarely used with anyone but with other Kytan. Kytan will speak in the common tongue with anyone else. Names: By tradition, Kytan names begin with the prefix Ky- (always pronounced kai) and are followed by one or more other syllables. Naming their children after the Kytan god Ky is a sign of reverence and worship. Naming the youngling anything is a sign of disrespect. Kytan do not have family names, but may adopt a clan name or a nickname. Male Names: Kyf, Kyler, Kyme, Kyso, Kyto, Kyzin Female Names: Kydi, Kyla, Kynia, Kyra, Kyshi, Kywah Adventures: Kytan don’t usually go on adventures for the gold or personal benefits. Most will either leave on adventures for the best of others. The most common quest taken on by Kytan is that of attempting to liberate other Kytan from the Lords of Frost. Some Kytan may decide to leave for the purpose of seeing what else is out there. Occasionally a Kytan will go adventuring to test themselves and attempt daring tasks. Racial Features: Humanoid (Kytan) ~ -2 str, +2 dex, -2 cha (Kytans are fast yet weak and often shy) ~ Small size (+1 size bonus to attack rolls and AC, wield smaller weapons, ¾ carrying capacity, +4 bonus on hide checks) ~ 30’ movement (Kytan’s legs can propel them across great distances) ~ +4 racial bonus on jump checks ~ +2 racial bonus on escape artist checks ~ Cryolithic blood (Ex): whenever a cold effect would reduce the Kytan’s HP below 0, he instead takes no cold damage but turns to stone (no save). In this form, he is immune to both fire and cold effects and has all other traits of a petrified character. He remains in this form indefinitely or until dealt heated up or given access to a stone to flesh spell. To be heated up, a Kytan must be dealt an amount of fire damage equal to or greater than his maximum hit points (may be total of several effects) or left in a warm climate for certain an amount of time (given below). ~ Hold Breath (Ex): May remain underwater for a number of rounds equal to quadruple their constitution score before risking drowning. ~ Cold vulnerability (Ex): A Kytan takes 50% more cold damage from cold effects and spells with the cold descriptor. ~ Tongue (Ex): A Kytan’s tongue can stretch up to 5’ longer than its normal reach. Its tongue is not strong or nimble enough to carry a weapon or to harm a creature directly, but may be used to grasp small objects or deliver touch attacks. Grasping an unattended object merely requires a touch attack, but grasping a carried or worn object requires a disarm check. A Kytan takes a -2 penalty on trip and disarm attempts made with his tongue, but gain a +2 bonus on any sleight of hand checks made to grab and conceal an item. A Kytan may make an attack with his tongue (for any purpose; grasping objects, delivering touch attacks, etc.) in the same round in which he/she takes a full-round attack action, though doing so counts as multiple weapon fighting. A Kytan is always eligible to take multiple-weapon fighting instead of two-weapon fighting feats (he/she may choose to take two-weapon fighting feats instead, though the reduced penalties do not apply in rounds the tongue is used). When grasping an item with his/her tongue, without the aid of any of his/her other members, a Kytan lifts items as if his/her strength score were 4 points less. (Reduced carrying capacity, -2 penalty on strength checks) ~ Languages: common, Kytan. Bonus Languages: abyssal, draconic, dwarven, giant, gnome, mariner ~ Favored Class: Rogue Defrost Time: Warm 1 week hot 1d6 days severe heat 1d3 days extreme heat 2d6 hours unearthly heat 1 hour burning heat 1d4 rounds
AnonymousInternets 08-10-06, 07:28 PM	Hehe. Found a nice picture to fit it. :P Looks pretty solid. Strong effort, reasonable bonuses. Nice work. :thumbsup:
SquirrelMortis 08-10-06, 07:43 PM	Top O' The 7:42-ish at night to ye Frasmage. You already know how much I love the Kytan and I think I may have a Prc Concept. Not the actual thing, just an idea...
frasmage 08-10-06, 07:50 PM	Top O' The 7:42-ish at night to ye Frasmage. You already know how much I love the Kytan and I think I may have a Prc Concept. Not the actual thing, just an idea... gotta love die hard fans :P And squirrel, you may like to know that I already have about 4 PrCs for the Kytan. Unfortunately, for now, I do not want to post them here as we may be publishing the campaign setting eventually (still in construction so may be while, haven't even confirmed that we will even). I can keep you posted on any progress on this, if you like. I can tell you however what the PrCs are: -the Liberated: Kytan who fight for their freedom and that of others -Hearthdaughter: High Priest of the Kytan goddess of warmth -Cryolithic Killer: Kytan assassin, often working for LoF -Wisp Warrior: a continuation on the Kytan wizard variant (which I unfortunately don't want to talk about either) Speculate if you would like, though I don't really want to say much myself until me and my friends sort some stuff out.
SquirrelMortis 08-10-06, 07:51 PM	Woops, time for Dinner. I'll tell you it in a bit. Toodle doo to you and all that old bean.
SquirrelMortis 08-10-06, 08:01 PM	Dang it, the liberator sounds a lot like it. My idea was it to be a sort of 'Bane of Cold' thing. They gain things with the cold subtype as a favored enemy, maybe a smite attack against cold things, and at 5th level, their vulnerability to cold dissapears. Is that too much like the liberator?
frasmage 08-10-06, 08:05 PM	well the LiberatED are more of gaining new abilities with the Kytans assets (tongue, speed/jump) and avoiding their weaknesses (cryolithics, enslavement)] The hearthdaughter is more painful for cold subtyped creatures
SquirrelMortis 08-10-06, 08:11 PM	Ahh... the liberated weren't like it, but the hearth daughter was... O well, thats life.
SquirrelMortis 08-10-06, 08:14 PM	Need to go over to friends house, sorry...
frasmage 08-11-06, 03:12 PM	Does anyone have any actual questions or issues regarding the race itself? Or do people only want to fawn over my work (not that that is a bad thing ;))?
frasmage 08-11-06, 06:50 PM	Time to Celebrate! The Kytan is the 1st place winner of the 1001-race competition!!!!
YabaTheWhat 08-12-06, 02:44 PM	Kytan Racial Features: Humanoid (amphibious) (reptilian) ~ -2 str, +2 dex, -2 cha (Kytans are fast yet weak and often shy) [-2 FP] ~ Small size (+1 size bonus to attack rolls and AC, wield smaller weapons, ¾ carrying capacity, +4 bonus on hide checks) [0 FP] ~ 30’ movement (Kytan’s legs can propel them across great distances) [6 FP] ~ +4 racial bonus on jump checks [2 FP] ~ +2 racial bonus on escape artist checks [1 FP] ~ Cryolithic blood (Ex): whenever a cold effect would reduce the Kytan’s HP below 0, he instead takes no cold damage but turns to stone (no save). In this form, he is immune to both fire and cold effects. He remains in this form indefinitely or until dealt heated up or given access to a stone to flesh spell. To be heated up, a Kytan must be dealt an amount of fire damage equal to or greater than his maximum hit points (may be total of several effects) or left in a warm climate for certain an amount of time (given below). While in stone form, a Kytan heals HP as if it was resting normally (after 24 hours, heal an amount of HP equal to double HD). [4 FP, See Below] ~ Amphibious Hold Breath (Ex): May remain underwater for a number of rounds equal to quadruple their constitution score before risking drowning. [1 FP] ~ Cold weakness (Ex): A Kytan takes 25% more cold damage from cold effects and spells with the cold descriptor. [-1 FP (see below)] ~ Tongue (Ex): [8 FP, See Below] A Kytan’s tongue can stretch up to 5’ longer than its normal reach. Its tongue is not strong or nimble enough to carry a weapon or to harm a creature directly, but may be used to grasp small objects or deliver touch attacks. Grasping an unattended object merely requires a touch attack, but grasping a carried or worn object requires a disarm check. A Kytan takes a -2 penalty on disarm attempts made with his tongue, but gain a +2 bonus on any sleight of hand checks made to grab and conceal an item. A Kytan may make an attack with his tongue (for any purpose; grasping objects, delivering touch attacks, etc.) in the same round in which he/she takes a full-round attack action, though doing so counts as multiple weapon fighting. A Kytan is always eligible to take multiple-weapon fighting instead of two-weapon fighting feats (he/she may choose to take two-weapon fighting feats instead, though the reduced penalties do not apply in rounds the tongue is used). When grasping an item with his/her tongue, without the aid of any of his/her other members, a Kytan lifts items as if his/her strength score were 4 points less. (Reduced carrying capacity, -2 penalty on strength checks) ~ Languages: common, Kytan. [0 FP] Bonus Languages: abyssal, draconic, dwarven, giant, gnome, mariner ~ Favored Class: Rogue [0 FP] Defrost Time: ~ warm 1 week ~ hot 1d6 days ~ severe heat 1d3 days ~ extreme heat 2d6 hours ~ unearthly heat 1 hour ~ burning heat 1d4 rounds[/code] The kytan have some unusual traits, with particular aspects which need to be addressed. Let's start with the simpler issues. Their cold vulnerability is minor, roughly equivalent to 1 point per damage die. If you raise the vulnerability to an extra 50% damage, it will be worth -3 FP. The "amphibious" ability has a different meaning from the one shown. Because they are not aquatic, and do not have a swim speed, they cannot be considered amphibious. However, the description of the ability corresponds with the Hold Breath ability found on lizardfolk and some other creatures. Cryolithic blood has some aspects of cold immunity, but not many. It is basically a way to stave off death under specific circumstances. When this ability is triggered, the kytan is still effectively removed from combat. However, the kytan can be brought back with fire spells, which could easily be area effect spells centered on or near the kytan. While the kytan's tongue provides reach, it does not do so for all the kytan's attacks, so cannot be valued as such. It does provide reach for delivery of touch attacks, which seems equivalent to a 4 FP feat (or a modified version of the Mage Hand spell at will), or the arcane ability to deliver touch spells via a familiar. Further, it provides minor bonuses worth 1 FP. The tongue cannot deal damage, but can still be used for trip attempts and certain other tactical attacks (albeit at a strength penalty), making it worth 3 FP as a natural attack. The closest contrast would be a bonus attack using a whip. As written, Kytans have 19 FP, making them LA+1 underpowered (low border). I suggest removing the speed bonus to balance them at 13 FP (LA+0), or increasing the vulnerability to cold (making them LA+0 overpowered).
frasmage 08-12-06, 05:18 PM	thanks for your comments Yaba, I made it humanoid amphibian, because frogs are not reptiles FYI the hold breath thing - i don't mind changing the name Is cryolithic blood really worth 4FP? It only kicks in against cold and only if its lethal. It does nothing if the cold damage reduces them to anything above 0. Also, will the caster really want to waste a spell on you when the enemy charges? It was meant to be half a weakness of the race. Also when you are stone you lose complete control of the surroundings (you are dependant on others or time) and you can also be easily taken prisoner - thats just my thoughts, tell me what you think I knew the tongue was the best ability of the race, but wow, 8FP for it. that all seems fine calaculation-wise, except: you can't trip with it. And would it be worth the same a s an extra whip attack even though you can't use it for damage - also on that point, if you use it in addition to other things (sword, etc.) you take a hefty penalty unless you invest in several feats. So yaba, do you think these points make sense? Or am i just ranting on about nothing? thanks again for help and comments
Jodjod 08-12-06, 06:44 PM	I love the concept. Mechanics definately need refining, but they are looking really good so far.
YabaTheWhat 08-14-06, 10:15 AM	I made it humanoid amphibian, because frogs are not reptiles FYI Amphibous is still reserved, because it actually has a set of rules associated with it. In order to be amphibious, they need to be aquatic. Being aquatic lets them breathe underwater. Being amphibous lets them breathe out of water as well. They could always be Humanoid (Kytan) like so many other humanoid creatures. Is cryolithic blood really worth 4FP? It only kicks in against cold and only if its lethal. It does nothing if the cold damage reduces them to anything above 0. Also, will the caster really want to waste a spell on you when the enemy charges? It was meant to be half a weakness of the race. Also when you are stone you lose complete control of the surroundings (you are dependant on others or time) and you can also be easily taken prisoner - thats just my thoughts, tell me what you think While cryolithic blood only works under limited circumstances, it is an easy way to avoid dying. Kytan wizard about to drop? He can use ray of frost on himself, so the party doesn't need to rush to his aid. Fighting a cold-based creature? Have the kytan rogue rush in, take the high-powered cold attack, then the party wizard drops a fireball on them both (thawing the kytan and dealing damage to a fire-vulnerable creature at once). Plus this ability kicks in against the element to which kytans are most vulnerable. Remember that turning to stone makes them immune (or at least resistant) to numerous types of damage. If you want to reduce the value of cryolithic blood, have them take the cold damage before turning to stone. They don't die, but immediate defrosting may not be the most wonderful idea. They'd need to be healed with Repair spells before bringing them back around. And whatever you do, do not have fire spells heal them while in stone form. That would be a recipe for disaster. I knew the tongue was the best ability of the race, but wow, 8FP for it. that all seems fine calaculation-wise, except: you can't trip with it. And would it be worth the same a s an extra whip attack even though you can't use it for damage - also on that point, if you use it in addition to other things (sword, etc.) you take a hefty penalty unless you invest in several feats. The tongue's description doesn't say you can't trip with it. They can't deal damage directly, but they can still make special attacks (and disarm attempts are even specified explicitly). Their tongues even have strength scores (4 lower than the normal kytans, but still high enough for trip attempts). I referred to the whip not because it is an equivalent weapon to the tongue (it isn't), but because whip attacks use a similar mechanic. Trip at a distance, trip as an AoO, etc. That's on top of delivering touch spells at a distance (or as an AoO), disarming at a distance (or as an AoO), and swiping/hiding objects. The tongue is a natural weapon, which means the penalties for using it in combat are less than those for wielded weapons (see the multiattack feat).
frasmage 08-14-06, 12:47 PM	1. Sure, humanoid (Kytan) works then 2. I am a bit tentative about removing the can be defrosted by fire clause for the reason that it will cause a lot of problems for low level parties -> Before the party arcanist learns stone to flesh, it will be a very long downtime while all wait for the frog to return to his sense :waits: I personally don't think it would be that gamebreaking as-is, because by the time the arcanists can afford to spend their spells on the Kytan, they could most likely just immunize any other character from the the elements (and it doesn't have to be cold) and not even need to worry about them getting to too low hp. And finally on that point, if the Kytan is more front-line, I assume he would be in a class with more HP - which means it may take multiple spells to defrost. Oh, and fire does not HEAL them, it just DEFROSTS them 3.Well, i guess the tongue is pretty good as is, actually its REALLY good. Now bringing down the FP, I am a bit torn as to what to do. You can all give me your opinions as to which i should pick: -give -2 wis, as Kytan are curious, slightly daring and often troublesome -Increase cold weakness to 50%, I am not overly fond of this, but its an option. -decrease speed to normal for small creatures, really don't like this one. Kytan are jumpers and reduced speed basicly nullifies their racial bonus to jumps checks. - -2 against intimidate and fear, Kytan are not the most resolute creatures (usually) -any other new penaolty ideas? Give me your preference, please. Your thoughts, as always, are much appreciated
YabaTheWhat 08-14-06, 03:53 PM	On the effects of fire, yes, I know it doesn't heal them. My point with that statement was, make sure it stays that way. The ability is potent as is, because they ignore the effects of potentially massive cold damage, and if they're desperate for hitpoints (as in close to or even slightly below 0hp), they can be placed in stasis with a low-damage cold attack (ray of frost). The feature may seem minor, but it has tactical advantages, which is why it's worth what it's worth. As for ways to bring them down under the mark: ¤ Wis -2 would be worth -3 FP, bringing them to LA+0 overpowered. ¤ Raising the cold vulnerability to 50% would be worth an additional -2 FP (on top of the -1 FP for 25%), bringing them to LA+0 overpowered, or LA+0 balanced if combined with the wisdom penalty. ¤ Reducing their movement rate to 20 ft would make them LA+0 balanced. However, as mentioned, this makes their jump bonus less useful, rather like the halflings' jump bonus. ¤ A -2 penalty vs intimidate & fear wouldn't do much. It would bring them under the mark, but just barely, and doesn't seem like an appropriate solution. (-0.5 FP) ¤ Modifying their cryolithic blood so that they still took the damage from a lethal cold attack, but turned to stone rather than dying or bleeding out, would reduce the value from 4 FP to 2 FP. Making them not heal naturally while in statue form would reduce its value by 1 FP (to 3 FP alone, or to 1 FP if combined with taking cold damage before becoming statues).
frasmage 08-14-06, 05:57 PM	hmm, removing the cold protection and natural healing together makes cryolithics basicly useless - Your effectively dead (not quite), your status won`t change, and thus the second you defrost - you die. Great, that doesn`t work too well. It kinda changes the "do or die" into just plain "die" Any one else have a preference or idea for it?
YabaTheWhat 08-14-06, 06:28 PM	hmm, removing the cold protection and natural healing together makes cryolithics basicly useless - Your effectively dead (not quite), your status won`t change, and thus the second you defrost - you die. Great, that doesn`t work too well. It kinda changes the "do or die" into just plain "die" Unless someone has a repair spell handy (cleric spell Make Whole or one of the arcane Repair spells available in the supplements). Or if he's not below -9, there's always casting spells in quick succession. Still, that's what makes the ability as written worth 4 FP instead of 1 FP. Heck, make them drop to -1 HP or their current total, whichever is lower. That way when they're brought back, they're unconscious. The advantage of the ability as written is that they can basically avoid cold damage, and come right back into the fight if hit with enough fire. Having less hit points actually works out better for them in such situations, because their ability kicks in sooner, and they can be brought back into action more quickly.
frasmage 08-14-06, 06:36 PM	Actually this just occurs to me now - but I think cryolithics should be left as is, because I already have a bunch of PrCs which use it and would be weakened if the blood was modified (cryolithic Killers especially, as they often induce frost in themselves to use the ability - won't work if that renders them unconscious) so, for now lets try and work off of other possible penalties
YabaTheWhat 08-14-06, 06:39 PM	Then let's work from the other options. The combination of the wisdom penalty and increased cold vulnerability seems to work best for what you're after.
frasmage 08-14-06, 06:47 PM	BTW yaba, do you mind giving me the scales of your system: I mean like 0 to x is LA+0 underpowered and x to # is balanced and # to n is overpowered, etc. It would be kinda helpful.
YabaTheWhat 08-14-06, 06:51 PM	BTW yaba, do you mind giving me the scales of your system: I mean like 0 to x is LA+0 underpowered and x to # is balanced and # to n is overpowered, etc. It would be kinda helpful. ECL = CL (LA+0, 1 HD): Underpowered -30 to +9 Balanced +10 to +14 Overpowered +15 to +18 ECL = 1 + CL (LA+1, 1 HD): Underpowered +19 to +29 Balanced +30 to +40 Overpowered +41 to +46 Let me know if you need more.
frasmage 08-14-06, 06:56 PM	Nope, thats what I need, thanks I will actually ask my friends what they think works best (as they are part of the campaign too). Thanks for the help Yaba PS: also yaba, if ever you get the time, would you mind looking at the other race in my sig? It too is a bit out of the ordinary with benefits and penalties. If you manage to get to it, you have my thanks
SquirrelMortis 08-14-06, 09:00 PM	This race is the 1st place winner of the first "1001-races workshop" race competition![ I knew it! I was RIGHT!!! Hahahahahahahahahaa!!! I could shake your hand, Frasmage...
frasmage 08-27-06, 06:18 PM	By vote of my friends I am going with removing the natural healing in cryo form and increased the cold weakness. Hopefully it is fully balanced now
Grod_The_Giant 10-13-06, 07:21 PM	I linked to this out of your signature. Totally sweet- great idea. I may even include some in an upcoming campaign (if it's ok with you).
frasmage 10-13-06, 08:26 PM	by all means. Races on this site are for public use Of course, eventually my friends and I will be publishing a CS in which the Kytan is one of the star races - but that won't come for a while
ragoftag 12-11-06, 10:57 AM	Great Idea! The best 'frog' race I have seen! And with a major CS twist that really snaps! Even without a grasp on the LoF and the rest, the Kytan still shine in RP potential. 'Kytans are often very shy and a little clumsy'/-2 str, +2 dex, -2 cha (Kytans are fast yet weak and often shy) Gee, elves are called dextrous and graceful with a +2 Dex! As I steal these for an encounter for the Frozen Fens (similarly frozen in the ancient past), I'm assigning a -2 penalty to their Dex based checks/ AC/etc. until fully warmed up or for some period after exposure to cold. Fits well with weaknesses to cold (see below). 'having trouble recognizing the difference between these similar humanoids.' Love the idea of 'but you all look alike to us!?' Great RP possibilities! Kytan tend towards good. They are often fairly simple-minded and kind creatures. Pet Gripe #438: Good doesn't mean stupid (No, 'Lawful Good doesn't mean Lawful Stupid' is #152). +2 racial bonus on escape artist checks Makes sense, possible synergy if tongue is free? Or is that the reason for the plus? Cryolithic blood (Ex) 'Cool!' Very powerful, but still weaker than the Warforged version, maybe if it was taken in conjunction with... Cold vulnerability (Ex) Ah! nm... Tongue (Ex) Might have missed the Str for the tongue, but a very useful tool for a rogue! but what about fine touch, manipulation, etc.? I try to torture test new stuff and help the GM integrate it into his world and this seems a bit abusable. A local GM saw this and added it to his game's 'frog' race...without any adjustment! My 'new' low level PC can now grab something with a Str of 12! I lifted the component pouches off an enemy wizard in the last combat and got tongue-zapped by a shocking grasp later. Even got to 'bite' 3 Striges in our last encounter! Mucho fun! Maybe now he'll toss in a bit of balance to the race (M size, +10 to Jump checks, etc. Should be toned down!). Only real fly in the ointment? Details of their being bound to that continent. What happens if they leave? Are there ways to avoid whatever? A feat that allows them to freely travel? Magic talisman with a bit of earth from the goddess's shrine? Roundtrip airline ticket? (No, seriously, a friend had a race that was recalled home after a variable time, not controlable and not instantaneous. annoying, but very RP) Doing a CS? Be sure to add sidebars for inclusioin into other worlds, with suggestions for Lof inclusion/replacements. All in all, a very nifty 'niche' race! I look forward to my PCs rage at the slavery. And of course, I'll have to include a misunderstood 'caretaker' for moral complications. And a 'monster', like a basilisk, that feeds on the 'petrified'...
frasmage 12-11-06, 11:59 AM	thanks for both the complements and the constructive criticism :) Great Idea! The best 'frog' race I have seen! And with a major CS twist that really snaps! Even without a grasp on the LoF and the rest, the Kytan still shine in RP potential. thanks, I think so too 'Kytans are often very shy and a little clumsy'/-2 str, +2 dex, -2 cha (Kytans are fast yet weak and often shy) Gee, elves are called dextrous and graceful with a +2 Dex! As I steal these for an encounter for the Frozen Fens (similarly frozen in the ancient past), I'm assigning a -2 penalty to their Dex based checks/ AC/etc. until fully warmed up or for some period after exposure to cold. Fits well with weaknesses to cold (see below). in clumsy I mean more in the sense of not quite so bright, and somewhat daring. Not everything needs to translate into game penalties and bonuses, some things can be left as just RP. In this case, we looked at what penalties to give, and they really could have been docked anything. But we saw strength and cha making the most natural sense, though wis was close behind. It was possible to penalize all stats, and make up with more killer abilities, but that felt a bit too min-max and makes them less game savvy for players. I would leave them as is in this case 'having trouble recognizing the difference between these similar humanoids.' Love the idea of 'but you all look alike to us!?' Great RP possibilities! :rofl: same thing that came to my mind. Actually, I recently saw a comedian on TV talking about how asian must look at americans and say "hey you all look alike to us too" (no offense to anyone) Kytan tend towards good. They are often fairly simple-minded and kind creatures. Pet Gripe #438: Good doesn't mean stupid (No, 'Lawful Good doesn't mean Lawful Stupid' is #152). no, but good doesn't mean righteous either. Lawful Stupid means overly righteous paladins with sticks up their rears. Quite the opposite here. So far these guys are the underdogs with good hearts +2 racial bonus on escape artist checks Makes sense, possible synergy if tongue is free? Or is that the reason for the plus? um, have you ever held a frog in your hands? Most frogs sweat naturally and keep their skin moist. Cryolithic blood (Ex) 'Cool!' Very powerful, but still weaker than the Warforged version, maybe if it was taken in conjunction with... in the acid tests, this came out as being more or less neutral in power. IT is both a huge help (save your life), but also a penalty (get captured, out of the game till defrost). It is mostly for flavor, and it is pretty darn tasty, if I do say so myself. Cold vulnerability (Ex) Ah! nm... yes this is there to counterbalance the cryolithic blood, and to actually increase your chances of needing it. It also technically counts as a penalty (even though not lethal to you), allowing us to toss in more goodies elsewhere. Tongue (Ex) Might have missed the Str for the tongue, but a very useful tool for a rogue! but what about fine touch, manipulation, etc.? very useful indeed, its the biggest appeal of the race. I try to torture test new stuff and help the GM integrate it into his world and this seems a bit abusable. A local GM saw this and added it to his game's 'frog' race...without any adjustment! My 'new' low level PC can now grab something with a Str of 12! I lifted the component pouches off an enemy wizard in the last combat and got tongue-zapped by a shocking grasp later. well we have checked out the comparative power of the ability, and yes very nice right off the bat, but you can do most of the maneuvers with a whip or spiked chain, with slightly higher success (you don't have the penalty). The biggest advantages over those are that they cost a feat and that the tongue (being an appendage of you) can deliver reach touch attacks! It is however, pretty well balanced. tongue-zapped? I take it the wizard caught your tongue? Even got to 'bite' 3 Striges in our last encounter! Mucho fun! strige? do you mean stirge? :rofl: thats a good use of the tongue - but only DM allowing. Maybe now he'll toss in a bit of balance to the race (M size, +10 to Jump checks, etc. Should be toned down!). 1. these guys are small 2. +10? Where you get that? they have +4, -1 from str penalty and speed 30... Thats +3 plus your ranks and stats. Only real fly in the ointment? Details of their being bound to that continent. What happens if they leave? Are there ways to avoid whatever? A feat that allows them to freely travel? Magic talisman with a bit of earth from the goddess's shrine? Roundtrip airline ticket? (No, seriously, a friend had a race that was recalled home after a variable time, not controlable and not instantaneous. annoying, but very RP) oh, thats just for our Cs, there is no reason you need to use the same thing. And they aren't quite bound there magically, just through propaganda (LoF feeding that of course) and the fact that escaping accross the frozen continent is pretty darn dangerous. Because of their aversion to cold, many wind up as statues in the glacier. However, that is not to say many have not escaped. Also in my CS, there are tons of freedom fighter organizations trying to smuggle out as many as possible from the despotic liches who rule the continent (the LoF of course) Its not like a place they have to return to and check in (thats the impression I got from that), If they can escape, they are home free! Also, thousands were born outside of the glacier, so there is no reason you even need to use that aspect of the race yourself. Doing a CS? Be sure to add sidebars for inclusioin into other worlds, with suggestions for Lof inclusion/replacements. All in all, a very nifty 'niche' race! I look forward to my PCs rage at the slavery. And of course, I'll have to include a misunderstood 'caretaker' for moral complications. And a 'monster', like a basilisk, that feeds on the 'petrified'... well, you can do whatever you want with the race. Though if you want a basic idea of how to use Morkar yourself, here is one way to put it: -LoF are basically all liches, they live in fortresses of ice built into the ravaged glacier at the center and keep their slaves there. -Most of the enslaved Kytans don't know there is an outside world or other opportunities out there. The only life the slaves have ever know or heard about is the life of slavery. However freedom fighters occasionally come all the way across the continent to free as many as they can -however, the entire continent is surrounded by a monstrous wall of ice. Climbing it is impossible, flying over is nigh-impossible with the killer glacial winds. The only way accross is through the various tunnels and caverns that run through it. Though these are filled with dangers... I will let you chew on that. Come up with what you can and good luck with your game :)
ragoftag 12-12-06, 03:36 PM	'I take it the wizard caught your tongue?' Yep, something about AoO! '1. these guys are small 2. +10? Where you get that? they have +4, -1 from str penalty and speed 30... Thats +3 plus your ranks and stats.' His frog people. Hey, we get a tongue! We already got a bite! And +10 to jump! And...well, you get the idea. Serious balance problems. But then, he was a biology major... Thx for the LoF background. Actually not far from my Frozen Fens concept, but i only have the one Ice Lich in there. a cabal of Ice Liches...interesting!
frasmage 12-12-06, 03:55 PM	oh, ok, I get it now - your friend made his own frog race. Yes that sounds a bit unbalancing. Glad you like it, I guess this race and the GD are my babies. PS: if possible, wrap quote text around quotations, it makes it easier to read. put [quote] before and [/ quote] at the end
Regular_K 01-09-07, 10:26 PM	~ Cryolithic blood (Ex): whenever a cold effect would reduce the Kytan’s HP below 0, he instead takes no cold damage but turns to stone (no save). In this form, he is immune to both fire and cold effects. He remains in this form indefinitely or until dealt heated up or given access to a stone to flesh spell. To be heated up, a Kytan must be dealt an amount of fire damage equal to or greater than his maximum hit points (may be total of several effects) or left in a warm climate for certain an amount of time (given below). [/code] So, how can he be dealt fire damage if he's immune to it?
Muglock 01-09-07, 10:28 PM	This race reminds me of the Bullywugs It pretty much is almost like the Bullywugs. It's better though, because Bullywugs plain suck. I could never find a reason why someone would want to play a pretty much full on retarded race of small frogmen who were outright hated everywhere, and were evil inclined no matter what. Thats besides the fact they constantly needed their skin wet. But these guys are much better, good work.
frasmage 01-10-07, 07:16 AM	So, how can he be dealt fire damage if he's immune to it? the fire does not damage them, it is retroactively counted against defrosting.
frasmage 05-06-07, 11:25 AM	:bump: