LA+0 Construct [Archive] - Wizards Community

LA+0 Construct [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
ArochanoX
03-12-08, 03:58 PM I'm trying to create a LA +0 construct that is truly a construct, not a living construct. I'm wondering how to balance it for LA +0. The build is completely theoretical, but it could as well be very practical and usable too if some flavor is added (besides being a construct which is on by itself is very cool).

Construct Type: A construct is an animated object or artificially
constructed creature.
Traits: A construct possesses the following traits (unless otherwise
noted in a creature’s entry).
—No Constitution score.
—Low-light vision.
—Darkvision out to 60 feet.
—Immunity to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions,
phantasms, patterns, and morale effects).
—Immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, stunning, disease,
death effects, and necromancy effects.
—Cannot heal damage on their own, but often can be repaired
by exposing them to a certain kind of effect (see the creature’s
description for details) or through the use of the Craft Construct
feat (see page 303). A construct with the fast healing special quality
still benefits from that quality.
—Not subject to critical hits, nonlethal damage, ability damage,
ability drain, fatigue, exhaustion, or energy drain.
—Immunity to any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless
the effect also works on objects, or is harmless).
—Not at risk of death from massive damage (see page 145 of the
Player’s Handbook). Immediately destroyed when reduced to 0 hit
points or less.
—Since it was never alive, a construct cannot be raised or resurrected.
—Because its body is a mass of unliving matter, a construct is
hard to destroy. It gains bonus hit points based on size, as shown
on the following table.
—Proficient with its natural weapons only, unless generally
humanoid in form, in which case proficient with any weapon
mentioned in its entry.
—Proficient with no armor.
—Constructs do not eat, sleep, or breathe.

Construct size - Extra Hp
tiny - 0
small - 10
medium - 20
large - 30
huge - 40

Yep.

I think the construct should be small for the sake of the bonus hp, which at level 1 is very huge bonus but later on the game it worsens. So if the construct race is small, it'd grant the creature +10 Hp (which is basically the same as endurance+diehard)

Small Construct
Speed: 20ft
Ability Scores: No constitution score, cha -4
Senses: Low-Light vision, Darkvision 60ft
Immunity to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects).
Immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, stunning, disease, death effects, and necromancy effects.
Immunity to any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects, or is harmless).
Not subject to critical hits, nonlethal damage, ability damage, ability drain, fatigue, exhaustion, or energy drain.
Construct Healing: Cannot heal damage on their own, but often can be repaired with a successful craft (metalworks) check (DC 15), which heals the construct 5 hp. The check takes an hour. Construct is immediately destroyed when reduced to 0 hit points or less. Cure spells have no effect on construct, but repair spells (Complete Arcane) can heal the construct. Since it was never alive, a construct cannot be raised or resurrected. Limited wish, Wish or Miracle can restore life back to Construct.
Constructs do not eat, sleep, or breathe.

The thing we have here now is very much too powerful for a LA +0 creature for my liking. The myriad of immunities is just overwhelming. Living constructs do not have half as much immunities and are thus more "vanilla". If we look at the defencive capabilities here, the construct will be able to deflect almost any special ability that doesn't deal damage. Those abilities though are often available only later in the game (past level 5). So the construct can be beaten down later by damage (because the construct will most likely have less Hp that a living creature). At early levels (when most of the immunities are trivial) the construct will have many hit points but as early as level 3 any creature that has a decent constitution modifier will have more hit points than our construct here.
Also. Note that in libris mortis the Necropolitan template was presented. While the template costs 1000xp and a level, they are easily gained back. And the necropolitan heals at a normal rate which is quite a boon for an undead. Effectively the necropolitan has LA of 1 that is bought off (as per UA:s rules). Same thing could be in place here, but I dislike the idea of creating a LA0 race that is LA1 race through levels 1 to 3.

So what do you suggest? How to make this LA0 or is this too much to balance for that?
M-bark
03-12-08, 04:05 PM Instead of the instant 10 hp bonus at level 1, you could have it scale by level as with Improved Toughness. Have Small constructs HP increase by 1/HD, Medium 2/HD, Large 3/HD, and so on.

For the rest, it would be extremely difficult to make it LA+0 if you want to keep all of the Construct traits with all its immunities and the fact that they wouldn't need to eat, sleep or even breathe.
ArochanoX
03-13-08, 02:09 AM M-Bark, good idea for the Hp distribution.

I've thought about creating the race to a template similar to the necropolitan. Mechapolitan?

“Necropolitan” is an acquired template that can be added to
any humanoid or monstrous humanoid (referred to hereafter
as the base creature).
A necropolitan speaks any languages it knew in life, and it
has all the base creature’s statistics and special abilities except
as noted here.
Size and Type: The creature’s type changes to undead, and
it gains the augmented subtype. Do not recalculate base attack
bonus, saves, or skill points. Size is unchanged.
Hit Dice: Increase to d12.
Special Qualities: A necropolitan retains all the special
qualities of the base creature and gains those described below.
Resist Control (Ex):
Turn Resistance (Ex):
Unnatural Resilience (Ex):
Abilities: Same as the base creature, except that as undead
creatures, necropolitans have no Constitution score.
Advancement: By character class.
Level Adjustment: Same as the base creature. (Becoming a
necropolitan involves losing a level—see Ritual of Crucimigration,
below—so the advantages of the undead type cancel out
what would other wise be a larger adjustment.)

That was somewhat shortened version (and hopefully good for CoC) of necropolitan.

And here's the same for mechapolitan:

“Mechapolitan” is an acquired template that can be added to any humanoid or monstrous humanoid (referred to hereafter as the base creature).
A mechapolitan speaks any languages it knew in life, and it has all the base creature’s statistics and special abilities except as noted here.
Size and Type: The creature’s type changes to construct, and it gains the augmented subtype. Do not recalculate base attack bonus, saves, or skill points. Size is unchanged.
Hit Dice: Increase to d10 if the Hit Dice (and following hit dice) were lower than d10.
Special Qualities: A necropolitan retains all the special qualities of the base creature and gains those described below.
Abilities: Same as the base creature, except that as constructs, mechapolitans have no Constitution score. Also -2 Cha.
Advancement: By character class.
Level Adjustment: Same as the base creature. (Becoming a mechapolitan involves losing a level—see Ritual of Metalmigration, below—so the advantages of the construct type cancel out what would other wise be a larger adjustment.)

Ritual of Metalmigration.
Any living humanoid or monstrous humanoid can petition for consideration to undergo the Ritual of Metalmigration, which (if successful) enables the creature to become a mechapolitan. The petition for consideration requires a fee of 3,000 gp and a written plea.
The Ritual
The ritual begins when the petitioner drinks a potion of a mixture that changes the petitioner's bones to iron during a 8h period of time. The mixture causes extreme pain, but it's essential that the petitioner stays concious for the whole duration of the ritual. Often there are healers and clerics recruited to ease the petitioner's pain.
When the petitioner's bones are turned to iron, an artificier (as a profession, not a character class) places a large crystal or a diamond into petitioner's mouth. The crystal is supposed to store the conciousness and awareness of the petitioner during the second phase of the ritual. During the second phase the artificier melds metal armor to the metal bones of the petitioner. This involves very much pain as the armor implants must be attached directly to the bones through the petitioners flesh.
At the end of the second phase the petitioner is killed and a raise dead dead spell is used to store the petitioner's conciousness to the crystal.
Third phase involves tossing the petitioner quickly to a pool of organic uncorrosive acid that destroys the now dead tissue but leaves the metal plating intact. After that the artificier places some extra metal pieces here and there and attaches auditory and visual sensory system to the petitioner's head, fixes the crystal to the head of the petitioner and animates the petitioner's new and shiny construct body.
The duration of the ritual is a complete 24 hours.

Game effect
The petitioner loses a level (as via raise dead spell) and in addintion a 1000 experience points.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ArochanoX 03-12-08, 03:58 PM	I'm trying to create a LA +0 construct that is truly a construct, not a living construct. I'm wondering how to balance it for LA +0. The build is completely theoretical, but it could as well be very practical and usable too if some flavor is added (besides being a construct which is on by itself is very cool). Construct Type: A construct is an animated object or artificially constructed creature. Traits: A construct possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature’s entry). —No Constitution score. —Low-light vision. —Darkvision out to 60 feet. —Immunity to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects). —Immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, stunning, disease, death effects, and necromancy effects. —Cannot heal damage on their own, but often can be repaired by exposing them to a certain kind of effect (see the creature’s description for details) or through the use of the Craft Construct feat (see page 303). A construct with the fast healing special quality still benefits from that quality. —Not subject to critical hits, nonlethal damage, ability damage, ability drain, fatigue, exhaustion, or energy drain. —Immunity to any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects, or is harmless). —Not at risk of death from massive damage (see page 145 of the Player’s Handbook). Immediately destroyed when reduced to 0 hit points or less. —Since it was never alive, a construct cannot be raised or resurrected. —Because its body is a mass of unliving matter, a construct is hard to destroy. It gains bonus hit points based on size, as shown on the following table. —Proficient with its natural weapons only, unless generally humanoid in form, in which case proficient with any weapon mentioned in its entry. —Proficient with no armor. —Constructs do not eat, sleep, or breathe. Construct size - Extra Hp tiny - 0 small - 10 medium - 20 large - 30 huge - 40 Yep. I think the construct should be small for the sake of the bonus hp, which at level 1 is very huge bonus but later on the game it worsens. So if the construct race is small, it'd grant the creature +10 Hp (which is basically the same as endurance+diehard) Small Construct Speed: 20ft Ability Scores: No constitution score, cha -4 Senses: Low-Light vision, Darkvision 60ft Immunity to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects). Immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, stunning, disease, death effects, and necromancy effects. Immunity to any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects, or is harmless). Not subject to critical hits, nonlethal damage, ability damage, ability drain, fatigue, exhaustion, or energy drain. Construct Healing: Cannot heal damage on their own, but often can be repaired with a successful craft (metalworks) check (DC 15), which heals the construct 5 hp. The check takes an hour. Construct is immediately destroyed when reduced to 0 hit points or less. Cure spells have no effect on construct, but repair spells (Complete Arcane) can heal the construct. Since it was never alive, a construct cannot be raised or resurrected. Limited wish, Wish or Miracle can restore life back to Construct. Constructs do not eat, sleep, or breathe. The thing we have here now is very much too powerful for a LA +0 creature for my liking. The myriad of immunities is just overwhelming. Living constructs do not have half as much immunities and are thus more "vanilla". If we look at the defencive capabilities here, the construct will be able to deflect almost any special ability that doesn't deal damage. Those abilities though are often available only later in the game (past level 5). So the construct can be beaten down later by damage (because the construct will most likely have less Hp that a living creature). At early levels (when most of the immunities are trivial) the construct will have many hit points but as early as level 3 any creature that has a decent constitution modifier will have more hit points than our construct here. Also. Note that in libris mortis the Necropolitan template was presented. While the template costs 1000xp and a level, they are easily gained back. And the necropolitan heals at a normal rate which is quite a boon for an undead. Effectively the necropolitan has LA of 1 that is bought off (as per UA:s rules). Same thing could be in place here, but I dislike the idea of creating a LA0 race that is LA1 race through levels 1 to 3. So what do you suggest? How to make this LA0 or is this too much to balance for that?
M-bark 03-12-08, 04:05 PM	Instead of the instant 10 hp bonus at level 1, you could have it scale by level as with Improved Toughness. Have Small constructs HP increase by 1/HD, Medium 2/HD, Large 3/HD, and so on. For the rest, it would be extremely difficult to make it LA+0 if you want to keep all of the Construct traits with all its immunities and the fact that they wouldn't need to eat, sleep or even breathe.
ArochanoX 03-13-08, 02:09 AM	M-Bark, good idea for the Hp distribution. I've thought about creating the race to a template similar to the necropolitan. Mechapolitan? “Necropolitan” is an acquired template that can be added to any humanoid or monstrous humanoid (referred to hereafter as the base creature). A necropolitan speaks any languages it knew in life, and it has all the base creature’s statistics and special abilities except as noted here. Size and Type: The creature’s type changes to undead, and it gains the augmented subtype. Do not recalculate base attack bonus, saves, or skill points. Size is unchanged. Hit Dice: Increase to d12. Special Qualities: A necropolitan retains all the special qualities of the base creature and gains those described below. Resist Control (Ex): Turn Resistance (Ex): Unnatural Resilience (Ex): Abilities: Same as the base creature, except that as undead creatures, necropolitans have no Constitution score. Advancement: By character class. Level Adjustment: Same as the base creature. (Becoming a necropolitan involves losing a level—see Ritual of Crucimigration, below—so the advantages of the undead type cancel out what would other wise be a larger adjustment.) That was somewhat shortened version (and hopefully good for CoC) of necropolitan. And here's the same for mechapolitan: “Mechapolitan” is an acquired template that can be added to any humanoid or monstrous humanoid (referred to hereafter as the base creature). A mechapolitan speaks any languages it knew in life, and it has all the base creature’s statistics and special abilities except as noted here. Size and Type: The creature’s type changes to construct, and it gains the augmented subtype. Do not recalculate base attack bonus, saves, or skill points. Size is unchanged. Hit Dice: Increase to d10 if the Hit Dice (and following hit dice) were lower than d10. Special Qualities: A necropolitan retains all the special qualities of the base creature and gains those described below. Abilities: Same as the base creature, except that as constructs, mechapolitans have no Constitution score. Also -2 Cha. Advancement: By character class. Level Adjustment: Same as the base creature. (Becoming a mechapolitan involves losing a level—see Ritual of Metalmigration, below—so the advantages of the construct type cancel out what would other wise be a larger adjustment.) Ritual of Metalmigration. Any living humanoid or monstrous humanoid can petition for consideration to undergo the Ritual of Metalmigration, which (if successful) enables the creature to become a mechapolitan. The petition for consideration requires a fee of 3,000 gp and a written plea. The Ritual The ritual begins when the petitioner drinks a potion of a mixture that changes the petitioner's bones to iron during a 8h period of time. The mixture causes extreme pain, but it's essential that the petitioner stays concious for the whole duration of the ritual. Often there are healers and clerics recruited to ease the petitioner's pain. When the petitioner's bones are turned to iron, an artificier (as a profession, not a character class) places a large crystal or a diamond into petitioner's mouth. The crystal is supposed to store the conciousness and awareness of the petitioner during the second phase of the ritual. During the second phase the artificier melds metal armor to the metal bones of the petitioner. This involves very much pain as the armor implants must be attached directly to the bones through the petitioners flesh. At the end of the second phase the petitioner is killed and a raise dead dead spell is used to store the petitioner's conciousness to the crystal. Third phase involves tossing the petitioner quickly to a pool of organic uncorrosive acid that destroys the now dead tissue but leaves the metal plating intact. After that the artificier places some extra metal pieces here and there and attaches auditory and visual sensory system to the petitioner's head, fixes the crystal to the head of the petitioner and animates the petitioner's new and shiny construct body. The duration of the ritual is a complete 24 hours. Game effect The petitioner loses a level (as via raise dead spell) and in addintion a 1000 experience points.