LA +0, ECL=CL Huge race [Archive] - Wizards Community

LA +0, ECL=CL Huge race [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Sul_Zain_Aserbet
02-28-07, 09:14 PM OK, i posted a question earlier today trying to find a race that was low ECL and huge. I was trying to find this out because i wanted to create a character who could use all the wonderful size-dependent feats from SS.

I think i found my answer. Bare with me though, because this is going to get creative.

Incarnate Construct + Effegy

For those of you unfamiliar with the Incarnate Construct template, it turns a construct into a living creature, with a -2 LA. Since the creature becomes living, it becomes available for play!

Since all i'm really going for here is a huge (or bigger) creature with as low of an ECL as possible (preferably an ECL the same as actual character level) I want to find a huge construct with as few special abilities as possible and as few HD as possible.

After much searching, i think the effigy from Complete Arcane will suit my needs.

The effegy is itself a "template" of sorts. You choose a base creature, apply the effigy template and Wa La! Done. You now have an effegy construct of a desired creature.

Here is where things get a little tricky, and where i messed up if i did. Someone, lets just say a member of the Effigy Master PrC, builds a huge effigy of a human (or some other LA 0 race) and builds it with one HD. This should run the creator 11,000 gold and 80 XP. You take a human and apply the effigy template to get the stats for the Effigy Master's creation, applying modifiers for size..

Then, you take that Huge human effigy and apply the Incarnate Construct template. Bam. You now have a Huge human (sort of.) As a 1 HD monster your first level will replace your monster HD. Your favored class is fighter.

I am pretty sure this would work. I'm really not sure what the technical LA for this would be, but i believe it is still 0. Basically, because most of the bonus's a player would get from being an effigy are reversed or limited by becoming a incarnate construct and, as applying the incarnete construct template subtracts -2 from any LA you would have aquired as an effegy, we are looking at LA+1, tops.

Edit: The reason i was confused is because im not sure if an effigy has to be the same size and HD as the base creature. I dont believe so, as there are variable costs for both. My conclusion is that size and HD are determined by the creator.
Ventilatory_Threshold
02-28-07, 09:51 PM Grammar isn't the issue here. We're talking about some major cheese potentially going down tonight (or tomorrow).
runestar
02-28-07, 09:52 PM Does the effigy template have a listed LA? This does not seem the sort of stuff that is suitable for normal play...:confused:
YabaTheWhat
02-28-07, 09:54 PM A huge (tall) creature has a natural reach of 20 ft. If nothing else, this alone earns a level adjustment. Considering the AC and attack penalties for huge size, the double increase in weapon sizes, etc., it will still end up with LA+2 overall just for being Huge.
Thomar_of_Uointer
02-28-07, 09:54 PM Yeah, as a general rule of thumb, templates without a listed LA are not suitable for players. Effigy is a template.
Sul_Zain_Aserbet
02-28-07, 10:05 PM Yeah, as a general rule of thumb, templates without a listed LA are not suitable for players. Effigy is a template.

This might be true, but your not playing an effigy. In fact, you only go through the motions of building an effigy to template it with Incarnate Construct, which you can play. And you have to template something that doesnt have a LA with incarnate construct, because constructs, as a rule, arent suitable for PCs.

At most, you are looking at +1 LA for being huge, as the LA is based off reach. However, given that the incarnate construct subtracts two from the LA, my earlier example would probably still only have an LA of +1 at most. (unbalanced scores + reach +natural armor - 2 ).
AnonymousInternets
02-28-07, 10:07 PM As a general rule of thumb (or at least, according to MM296), Huge creatures shouldn't start with less than 4 hit dice. With that in mind, it seems unlikely that you'll find something with half that. Sorry. :-X
Sul_Zain_Aserbet
02-28-07, 10:10 PM BTW, i can indeed smell the cheese on this finding of mine :D

Not saying its balanced, but mechanically, i believe this works.
Sul_Zain_Aserbet
02-28-07, 10:11 PM As a general rule of thumb (or at least, according to MM296), Huge creatures shouldn't start with less than 4 hit dice. With that in mind, it seems unlikely that you'll find something with half that. Sorry. :-X

Chock it up to shoddy work by the Effigy Master :D There is no stated minimum HD for an effigy.
Light_Colonel
02-28-07, 10:14 PM I think mechanically it does work. While Huge critters *shouldn't* have less than 4HD there is no rule that says they have to. Furthermore since you are building it as an effigy...

However I must say the one technical problem you have is that Effigy has to be straight applied to a critter. I do not believe it allows you to tweak the size or HD of it. So I think you are out of luck...
Shade West
02-28-07, 10:16 PM Correcting a correction:

Voila

is the proper spelling.
overelemental
02-28-07, 10:19 PM I agree with the others, effigies are clearly not meant to be used by players. If you do, you need to assign a LA to them, not pretend it's LA 0 just cause it isn't listed.

2) It is voa la, from the French for "there it is".

Actually, it's voila from the French "voi see" which means "see there". Voyeur is also related.

Correct them or else!!! I will complain again in 24 hours.

The grammar police will get you!!!

Extra exclamation marks are just as bad, but still not as bad as threatening someone cause of their typing. It's annoying with grammar errors, but his post was clearly readable.

When bothering to read the post, at least comment on it as well, not just troll.
Sul_Zain_Aserbet
02-28-07, 10:22 PM I think mechanically it does work. While Huge critters *shouldn't* have less than 4HD there is no rule that says they have to. Furthermore since you are building it as an effigy...

However I must say the one technical problem you have is that Effigy has to be straight applied to a critter. I do not believe it allows you to tweak the size or HD of it. So I think you are out of luck...

This is the one sticking point im not sure of, because its a little fuzzy. You do apply the template in a pretty starit forward manner, but the creator dictates HD by how much he pays. In the case of the effigy master, that maximum number of HD effigy he can make is a function of his level. But as far as mimimums go... not sure.

It could be interpreted as paying for HD.

If your Dm rules the other way, this is still a fun trick. Use it to make an ogre with a +0 level adjustment.

Edit: Or a half ogre with a +0 ECL
Inaya_Elrissa
02-28-07, 10:22 PM Another glaring problem is the requirement of said Effigy master. As a DM, I wouldn't allow you to play this character unless another PC was the Effigy master, in which case you'd be really far behind (since you start at level 1).

Cause in any world that I run, the chances of an effigy master building such a basically worthless (combat wise) effigy and then making it into an Incarnum construct is slim to none.
Dm_Farble
02-28-07, 10:32 PM *does his heroic superidiot man stance*
VIOLA! hehehe... Type of instrument I know but what the heck. Had to contribute something.
All I can say is: Talk to your dm. If he/she says it goes, it goes. He/she may have to work out the crunch a little and you'll need a vast quantity of absolutly genious fluff, but it sounds pretty cool. As a dm I try to be flexible and if a player has a cool idea that makes sense I may bend the mechanics a little to get a nice fluffy in game experience. :D
Dm_Farble
02-28-07, 10:39 PM When bothering to read the post, at least comment on it as well, not just troll.
*eats roasted troll*
Way to go Overelemental! I'll try to double check my grammar with this group.
Though, be forewarned. Some buttons on my ancient keyboard are flickering out and do not work sometimes.

Anyways, I think its a pretty cool idea to play a construct. You would probably adventure with the wizard that created you though. I don't have the book that you are pulling this information from. I can't really argue with the crunch of this matter though.
Ilion
02-28-07, 10:41 PM The Effigy template results in a mindless construct (Int score of --) which makes it unplayable. I think that's why the LA is "-".

Also, yes, it's a template. You'd need a huge race to apply it to in the first place.
Jaxgaret
02-28-07, 10:43 PM How exactly does Incarnate Construct get applied to a character? Does it just spontaneously *poof* happen?

And what book is it from?
Light_Colonel
02-28-07, 10:48 PM Incarnate Construct is from Savage Species and it DOES make unplayable Golem characters into playable characters.
Sul_Zain_Aserbet
02-28-07, 11:26 PM OK, more information on this mental exercise.

The rules say that an effigy can be applied to "any corporal aberration, animal, dragon, giant, humanoid, magical beast, monstrous humanoid, or vermin."

So, technically, i don't believe you can make a human your base creature. BUT, you could do something like this-

As you can add this template to any of the mentioned above (including individuals) you could, in thoery, make a 1 HD effigy of a large elan that has had enlarge person permenantly cast on him. Or, for extra cheapness, a humanoid under the enfluence of an augmented expand power. Cheap i know, but technically pheasable.
Part-Human2
03-01-07, 12:36 AM Applying a template to a effigy doesn't result in a playable character but rather it means they are still unsuitable for player characters. Having Intelligence and being alive is no argument since there are numerous living creatures with Intelligence that are not suitable for play.

This is an Inherited template and is't to be added to specific individuals. You can't make a Large elan 1 HD effigy as the elan race isn't Large. Also, Size is unchanged so you can't make a Human effigy and say you're making it Large because the human race is Medium.

May I suggest you look into the Dustform template (Sandstorm) which is both Acquired and has a listed +2 LA.
Light_Colonel
03-01-07, 12:44 AM Applying a template to a effigy doesn't result in a playable character but rather it means they are still unsuitable for player characters. Having Intelligence and being alive is no argument since there are numerous living creatures with Intelligence that are not suitable for play.

Actually I believe the Incarnate Construct specifically mentions a phrase along the lines of "this can make otherwise unplayable constructs into playable characters".
Part-Human2
03-01-07, 12:44 AM Skin of Proteus (SRD, EPH, 84000gp price) grants constant Metamorphosis up to 7 HD. That includes Treants (Huge).
Part-Human2
03-01-07, 12:47 AM Actually I believe the Incarnate Construct specifically mentions a phrase along the lines of "this can make otherwise unplayable constructs into playable characters".

It doesn't.
runestar
03-01-07, 02:06 AM Actually I believe the Incarnate Construct specifically mentions a phrase along the lines of "this can make otherwise unplayable constructs into playable characters".
You still face another problem. Unplayable constructs would be unplayable because they have no listed LA. Even after applying the incarnate template, you still won't have a listed LA. How would you go about playing one then?:confused:
Sul_Zain_Aserbet
03-01-07, 10:20 AM "incarnate construct: This is a very specific template intended to turn some constructs, such as stone golems, into humoids or giants. The primary benefit to this template is that it provides a way for golems to become playable characters."

-SS, pg 144.

You still face another problem. Unplayable constructs would be unplayable because they have no listed LA. Even after applying the incarnate template, you still won't have a listed LA. How would you go about playing one then?:confused:

Good question. The only thing i can think of is to apply the SS LA adjustment rules to the finished product (i.e. what you will end up playing)

There is still one problem that i admit seeing with my pun-punish proposal. This only effectively works if a person can find a construct, any construct, that has low HD and can be upgraded to huge. The effigy has potential, as basically you can take any huge creature, turn it into an effigy, and then into a playable chracter with incarnate construct, and knocking down the LA of whatever it was you were basing your creation on. Ive been searching high and low for such a construct. The homonculi had potential, but it only upgrades to medium size. Same thing with the cheap guardian constructs. I'm still searching for something that fits the bill perfectly.

Edit: OK, i think i have the solution, and the solution is a little more simple. The problem with an incarnate construct that's huge is huge constructs have a crapload of HD. So, take them away with an energy drain spell. That should knock down the ECl to negligable. I guess, in theory, you could do this to any race to make it playable, but workig through the incarnate construct template removes special abilities that could knock your LA up, and indeed lowers the LA.
Melpomene
03-01-07, 12:17 PM First of all, i think using the two templates together to make a player character is an... interesting idea. I won't go as far as to say 'great', but it's certainly a mental excecise.

However, the HD requirements of the Effigy Master don't allow you to add HD or size to a creature without the capacity of recieving such a boon. That is to say, you could not augment a human in such a way.

You could, potentially, augment another creature that begins life as huge in this way and it would likely lower the LA, but you aren't going to get huge that easily.
Sul_Zain_Aserbet
03-01-07, 12:24 PM First of all, i think using the two templates together to make a player character is an... interesting idea. I won't go as far as to say 'great', but it's certainly a mental excecise.

However, the HD requirements of the Effigy Master don't allow you to add HD or size to a creature without the capacity of recieving such a boon. That is to say, you could not augment a human in such a way.

You could, potentially, augment another creature that begins life as huge in this way and it would likely lower the LA, but you aren't going to get huge that easily.

I think your right. Ive been pulling my hair out trying to get a huge low leveled playable character. I mentioned my solution in the post above. However, if your DM tells you that you must replenish your character levels in what you were before taking class levels, i have a solution!

Use the ritual of changing from SS on your effigy to change its type away from construct. Energy drain it. Change its subtype back to construct. Apply template. Your newly transformed character now has no knowedge of ever having levels, and only had 1 HD at the time of its creation. Start leveling fighter.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Sul_Zain_Aserbet 02-28-07, 09:14 PM	OK, i posted a question earlier today trying to find a race that was low ECL and huge. I was trying to find this out because i wanted to create a character who could use all the wonderful size-dependent feats from SS. I think i found my answer. Bare with me though, because this is going to get creative. Incarnate Construct + Effegy For those of you unfamiliar with the Incarnate Construct template, it turns a construct into a living creature, with a -2 LA. Since the creature becomes living, it becomes available for play! Since all i'm really going for here is a huge (or bigger) creature with as low of an ECL as possible (preferably an ECL the same as actual character level) I want to find a huge construct with as few special abilities as possible and as few HD as possible. After much searching, i think the effigy from Complete Arcane will suit my needs. The effegy is itself a "template" of sorts. You choose a base creature, apply the effigy template and Wa La! Done. You now have an effegy construct of a desired creature. Here is where things get a little tricky, and where i messed up if i did. Someone, lets just say a member of the Effigy Master PrC, builds a huge effigy of a human (or some other LA 0 race) and builds it with one HD. This should run the creator 11,000 gold and 80 XP. You take a human and apply the effigy template to get the stats for the Effigy Master's creation, applying modifiers for size.. Then, you take that Huge human effigy and apply the Incarnate Construct template. Bam. You now have a Huge human (sort of.) As a 1 HD monster your first level will replace your monster HD. Your favored class is fighter. I am pretty sure this would work. I'm really not sure what the technical LA for this would be, but i believe it is still 0. Basically, because most of the bonus's a player would get from being an effigy are reversed or limited by becoming a incarnate construct and, as applying the incarnete construct template subtracts -2 from any LA you would have aquired as an effegy, we are looking at LA+1, tops. Edit: The reason i was confused is because im not sure if an effigy has to be the same size and HD as the base creature. I dont believe so, as there are variable costs for both. My conclusion is that size and HD are determined by the creator.
Ventilatory_Threshold 02-28-07, 09:51 PM	Grammar isn't the issue here. We're talking about some major cheese potentially going down tonight (or tomorrow).
runestar 02-28-07, 09:52 PM	Does the effigy template have a listed LA? This does not seem the sort of stuff that is suitable for normal play...:confused:
YabaTheWhat 02-28-07, 09:54 PM	A huge (tall) creature has a natural reach of 20 ft. If nothing else, this alone earns a level adjustment. Considering the AC and attack penalties for huge size, the double increase in weapon sizes, etc., it will still end up with LA+2 overall just for being Huge.
Thomar_of_Uointer 02-28-07, 09:54 PM	Yeah, as a general rule of thumb, templates without a listed LA are not suitable for players. Effigy is a template.
Sul_Zain_Aserbet 02-28-07, 10:05 PM	Yeah, as a general rule of thumb, templates without a listed LA are not suitable for players. Effigy is a template. This might be true, but your not playing an effigy. In fact, you only go through the motions of building an effigy to template it with Incarnate Construct, which you can play. And you have to template something that doesnt have a LA with incarnate construct, because constructs, as a rule, arent suitable for PCs. At most, you are looking at +1 LA for being huge, as the LA is based off reach. However, given that the incarnate construct subtracts two from the LA, my earlier example would probably still only have an LA of +1 at most. (unbalanced scores + reach +natural armor - 2 ).
AnonymousInternets 02-28-07, 10:07 PM	As a general rule of thumb (or at least, according to MM296), Huge creatures shouldn't start with less than 4 hit dice. With that in mind, it seems unlikely that you'll find something with half that. Sorry. :-X
Sul_Zain_Aserbet 02-28-07, 10:10 PM	BTW, i can indeed smell the cheese on this finding of mine :D Not saying its balanced, but mechanically, i believe this works.
Sul_Zain_Aserbet 02-28-07, 10:11 PM	As a general rule of thumb (or at least, according to MM296), Huge creatures shouldn't start with less than 4 hit dice. With that in mind, it seems unlikely that you'll find something with half that. Sorry. :-X Chock it up to shoddy work by the Effigy Master :D There is no stated minimum HD for an effigy.
Light_Colonel 02-28-07, 10:14 PM	I think mechanically it does work. While Huge critters shouldn't have less than 4HD there is no rule that says they have to. Furthermore since you are building it as an effigy... However I must say the one technical problem you have is that Effigy has to be straight applied to a critter. I do not believe it allows you to tweak the size or HD of it. So I think you are out of luck...
Shade West 02-28-07, 10:16 PM	Correcting a correction: Voila is the proper spelling.
overelemental 02-28-07, 10:19 PM	I agree with the others, effigies are clearly not meant to be used by players. If you do, you need to assign a LA to them, not pretend it's LA 0 just cause it isn't listed. 2) It is voa la, from the French for "there it is". Actually, it's voila from the French "voi see" which means "see there". Voyeur is also related. Correct them or else!!! I will complain again in 24 hours. The grammar police will get you!!! Extra exclamation marks are just as bad, but still not as bad as threatening someone cause of their typing. It's annoying with grammar errors, but his post was clearly readable. When bothering to read the post, at least comment on it as well, not just troll.
Sul_Zain_Aserbet 02-28-07, 10:22 PM	I think mechanically it does work. While Huge critters shouldn't have less than 4HD there is no rule that says they have to. Furthermore since you are building it as an effigy... However I must say the one technical problem you have is that Effigy has to be straight applied to a critter. I do not believe it allows you to tweak the size or HD of it. So I think you are out of luck... This is the one sticking point im not sure of, because its a little fuzzy. You do apply the template in a pretty starit forward manner, but the creator dictates HD by how much he pays. In the case of the effigy master, that maximum number of HD effigy he can make is a function of his level. But as far as mimimums go... not sure. It could be interpreted as paying for HD. If your Dm rules the other way, this is still a fun trick. Use it to make an ogre with a +0 level adjustment. Edit: Or a half ogre with a +0 ECL
Inaya_Elrissa 02-28-07, 10:22 PM	Another glaring problem is the requirement of said Effigy master. As a DM, I wouldn't allow you to play this character unless another PC was the Effigy master, in which case you'd be really far behind (since you start at level 1). Cause in any world that I run, the chances of an effigy master building such a basically worthless (combat wise) effigy and then making it into an Incarnum construct is slim to none.
Dm_Farble 02-28-07, 10:32 PM	does his heroic superidiot man stance VIOLA! hehehe... Type of instrument I know but what the heck. Had to contribute something. All I can say is: Talk to your dm. If he/she says it goes, it goes. He/she may have to work out the crunch a little and you'll need a vast quantity of absolutly genious fluff, but it sounds pretty cool. As a dm I try to be flexible and if a player has a cool idea that makes sense I may bend the mechanics a little to get a nice fluffy in game experience. :D
Dm_Farble 02-28-07, 10:39 PM	When bothering to read the post, at least comment on it as well, not just troll. eats roasted troll Way to go Overelemental! I'll try to double check my grammar with this group. Though, be forewarned. Some buttons on my ancient keyboard are flickering out and do not work sometimes. Anyways, I think its a pretty cool idea to play a construct. You would probably adventure with the wizard that created you though. I don't have the book that you are pulling this information from. I can't really argue with the crunch of this matter though.
Ilion 02-28-07, 10:41 PM	The Effigy template results in a mindless construct (Int score of --) which makes it unplayable. I think that's why the LA is "-". Also, yes, it's a template. You'd need a huge race to apply it to in the first place.
Jaxgaret 02-28-07, 10:43 PM	How exactly does Incarnate Construct get applied to a character? Does it just spontaneously poof happen? And what book is it from?
Light_Colonel 02-28-07, 10:48 PM	Incarnate Construct is from Savage Species and it DOES make unplayable Golem characters into playable characters.
Sul_Zain_Aserbet 02-28-07, 11:26 PM	OK, more information on this mental exercise. The rules say that an effigy can be applied to "any corporal aberration, animal, dragon, giant, humanoid, magical beast, monstrous humanoid, or vermin." So, technically, i don't believe you can make a human your base creature. BUT, you could do something like this- As you can add this template to any of the mentioned above (including individuals) you could, in thoery, make a 1 HD effigy of a large elan that has had enlarge person permenantly cast on him. Or, for extra cheapness, a humanoid under the enfluence of an augmented expand power. Cheap i know, but technically pheasable.
Part-Human2 03-01-07, 12:36 AM	Applying a template to a effigy doesn't result in a playable character but rather it means they are still unsuitable for player characters. Having Intelligence and being alive is no argument since there are numerous living creatures with Intelligence that are not suitable for play. This is an Inherited template and is't to be added to specific individuals. You can't make a Large elan 1 HD effigy as the elan race isn't Large. Also, Size is unchanged so you can't make a Human effigy and say you're making it Large because the human race is Medium. May I suggest you look into the Dustform template (Sandstorm) which is both Acquired and has a listed +2 LA.
Light_Colonel 03-01-07, 12:44 AM	Applying a template to a effigy doesn't result in a playable character but rather it means they are still unsuitable for player characters. Having Intelligence and being alive is no argument since there are numerous living creatures with Intelligence that are not suitable for play. Actually I believe the Incarnate Construct specifically mentions a phrase along the lines of "this can make otherwise unplayable constructs into playable characters".
Part-Human2 03-01-07, 12:44 AM	Skin of Proteus (SRD, EPH, 84000gp price) grants constant Metamorphosis up to 7 HD. That includes Treants (Huge).
Part-Human2 03-01-07, 12:47 AM	Actually I believe the Incarnate Construct specifically mentions a phrase along the lines of "this can make otherwise unplayable constructs into playable characters". It doesn't.
runestar 03-01-07, 02:06 AM	Actually I believe the Incarnate Construct specifically mentions a phrase along the lines of "this can make otherwise unplayable constructs into playable characters". You still face another problem. Unplayable constructs would be unplayable because they have no listed LA. Even after applying the incarnate template, you still won't have a listed LA. How would you go about playing one then?:confused:
Sul_Zain_Aserbet 03-01-07, 10:20 AM	"incarnate construct: This is a very specific template intended to turn some constructs, such as stone golems, into humoids or giants. The primary benefit to this template is that it provides a way for golems to become playable characters." -SS, pg 144. You still face another problem. Unplayable constructs would be unplayable because they have no listed LA. Even after applying the incarnate template, you still won't have a listed LA. How would you go about playing one then?:confused: Good question. The only thing i can think of is to apply the SS LA adjustment rules to the finished product (i.e. what you will end up playing) There is still one problem that i admit seeing with my pun-punish proposal. This only effectively works if a person can find a construct, any construct, that has low HD and can be upgraded to huge. The effigy has potential, as basically you can take any huge creature, turn it into an effigy, and then into a playable chracter with incarnate construct, and knocking down the LA of whatever it was you were basing your creation on. Ive been searching high and low for such a construct. The homonculi had potential, but it only upgrades to medium size. Same thing with the cheap guardian constructs. I'm still searching for something that fits the bill perfectly. Edit: OK, i think i have the solution, and the solution is a little more simple. The problem with an incarnate construct that's huge is huge constructs have a crapload of HD. So, take them away with an energy drain spell. That should knock down the ECl to negligable. I guess, in theory, you could do this to any race to make it playable, but workig through the incarnate construct template removes special abilities that could knock your LA up, and indeed lowers the LA.
Melpomene 03-01-07, 12:17 PM	First of all, i think using the two templates together to make a player character is an... interesting idea. I won't go as far as to say 'great', but it's certainly a mental excecise. However, the HD requirements of the Effigy Master don't allow you to add HD or size to a creature without the capacity of recieving such a boon. That is to say, you could not augment a human in such a way. You could, potentially, augment another creature that begins life as huge in this way and it would likely lower the LA, but you aren't going to get huge that easily.
Sul_Zain_Aserbet 03-01-07, 12:24 PM	First of all, i think using the two templates together to make a player character is an... interesting idea. I won't go as far as to say 'great', but it's certainly a mental excecise. However, the HD requirements of the Effigy Master don't allow you to add HD or size to a creature without the capacity of recieving such a boon. That is to say, you could not augment a human in such a way. You could, potentially, augment another creature that begins life as huge in this way and it would likely lower the LA, but you aren't going to get huge that easily. I think your right. Ive been pulling my hair out trying to get a huge low leveled playable character. I mentioned my solution in the post above. However, if your DM tells you that you must replenish your character levels in what you were before taking class levels, i have a solution! Use the ritual of changing from SS on your effigy to change its type away from construct. Energy drain it. Change its subtype back to construct. Apply template. Your newly transformed character now has no knowedge of ever having levels, and only had 1 HD at the time of its creation. Start leveling fighter.