LA +0 Gnoll? [Archive] - Wizards Community

LA +0 Gnoll? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
foxtail
05-30-07, 01:31 PM I've always loved the idea of playing a gnoll PC, but the racial hit dice and +1 level adjustment always seemed to push me away - not that I mind playing challenging characters, it's just that I enjoy them more when they survive. Can anyone help me come up with a +0 LA variant that I might be able to present as fair to my DM?

What I have in mind so far:
- Scrap the racial HD and skill points
- Drop the Str bonus to +2 (runt of the litter?)

Anything else come to mind?
Neutronium_Dragon
05-30-07, 01:58 PM While I originally wrote this up as a somewhat smaller, lighter, and swifter subrace (based loosely on the idea that they were nomadic herdsmen), it works pretty well as a direct substitute for standard gnolls:

Plainsrunner Gnoll:

Medium Humanoid (Gnoll)
Base Speed 30'
Low Light Vision
+1 Natural Armor
+1 Racial bonus to Fortitude saves
+2 Racial bonus to Fortitude saves vs Disease and Poison (this stacks with their general Fortitude save bonus)
Plainsrunner Gnolls have the Tireless feat
Plainsrunner Gnolls gain a 5' bonus to their movement rate when carrying no more than a light load and when not wearing medium or heavy armor.
Favored Class: Ranger
Automatic Languages: Common, Gnoll
Level Adjustment: +0
AMGriffin
05-30-07, 08:28 PM Without tampering with the gnoll's flavor and keeping things simple just remove all their NA, skill points, and the scent ability (make it availble to gnoll with a WIS score of at least 13).

Another interesting concept is a gnoll with this stat line...

+2 Strength, -2 Intelligence, +2 Wisdom, -2 Charisma.

ooh aah ooh
DreamerInsane
05-31-07, 07:47 AM That aternate statline. With Scent. It SCREAMS Gray Orc.
foxtail
05-31-07, 08:23 AM Without tampering with the gnoll's flavor and keeping things simple just remove all their NA, skill points, and the scent ability (make it availble to gnoll with a WIS score of at least 13).

I didn't see scent in the MM gnoll's list of racial traits.
AMGriffin
05-31-07, 09:47 AM Huh, I must be crazy. I coulda swore they had it, oh well.

That aternate statline. With Scent. It SCREAMS Gray Orc.

Yeah, it does, but Gray orcs also have 40 feet base landspeed and some other goods.

The whole point of it was to try and put some emphasis on the supposed druidic/shamanistic tradition of Gnolls.
G_Mancer
05-31-07, 02:17 PM you do realize you can play a gnoll at ECL1.... right? Races of wild has Monster classes. you'd have 1d8 humanoid hit dice, cleric BAB, good fort save, 2+in x4 skill points. check it out before you say "naa" because it really is a great idea when trying to play 2 or higher ECL monsters
foxtail
05-31-07, 02:39 PM you do realize you can play a gnoll at ECL1.... right? Races of wild has Monster classes. you'd have 1d8 humanoid hit dice, cleric BAB, good fort save, 2+in x4 skill points. check it out before you say "naa" because it really is a great idea when trying to play 2 or higher ECL monsters

I'm aware of monster classes, and I've looked into it. I'm of the opinion, though, that one monstrous humanoid level < one standard class level. If I'm moving into a combat-focused class, it might not make much difference in the end, especially with the high Str bonus and natural armor. But any caster class (or skill monkey, for that matter) is going to be weakened by that progression, IMO.

Anyone is welcome to tell me I'm wrong, of course.

Edit: BTW, thanks to everyone who's answered so far.
Neutronium_Dragon
05-31-07, 05:35 PM The other problem is that the standard gnoll is a classic example of overcosted ECL. It would be fine at ECL 2, but at ECL 3 it's a joke, and the progression class doesn't help with that.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
foxtail 05-30-07, 01:31 PM	I've always loved the idea of playing a gnoll PC, but the racial hit dice and +1 level adjustment always seemed to push me away - not that I mind playing challenging characters, it's just that I enjoy them more when they survive. Can anyone help me come up with a +0 LA variant that I might be able to present as fair to my DM? What I have in mind so far: - Scrap the racial HD and skill points - Drop the Str bonus to +2 (runt of the litter?) Anything else come to mind?
Neutronium_Dragon 05-30-07, 01:58 PM	While I originally wrote this up as a somewhat smaller, lighter, and swifter subrace (based loosely on the idea that they were nomadic herdsmen), it works pretty well as a direct substitute for standard gnolls: Plainsrunner Gnoll: Medium Humanoid (Gnoll) Base Speed 30' Low Light Vision +1 Natural Armor +1 Racial bonus to Fortitude saves +2 Racial bonus to Fortitude saves vs Disease and Poison (this stacks with their general Fortitude save bonus) Plainsrunner Gnolls have the Tireless feat Plainsrunner Gnolls gain a 5' bonus to their movement rate when carrying no more than a light load and when not wearing medium or heavy armor. Favored Class: Ranger Automatic Languages: Common, Gnoll Level Adjustment: +0
AMGriffin 05-30-07, 08:28 PM	Without tampering with the gnoll's flavor and keeping things simple just remove all their NA, skill points, and the scent ability (make it availble to gnoll with a WIS score of at least 13). Another interesting concept is a gnoll with this stat line... +2 Strength, -2 Intelligence, +2 Wisdom, -2 Charisma. ooh aah ooh
DreamerInsane 05-31-07, 07:47 AM	That aternate statline. With Scent. It SCREAMS Gray Orc.
foxtail 05-31-07, 08:23 AM	Without tampering with the gnoll's flavor and keeping things simple just remove all their NA, skill points, and the scent ability (make it availble to gnoll with a WIS score of at least 13). I didn't see scent in the MM gnoll's list of racial traits.
AMGriffin 05-31-07, 09:47 AM	Huh, I must be crazy. I coulda swore they had it, oh well. That aternate statline. With Scent. It SCREAMS Gray Orc. Yeah, it does, but Gray orcs also have 40 feet base landspeed and some other goods. The whole point of it was to try and put some emphasis on the supposed druidic/shamanistic tradition of Gnolls.
G_Mancer 05-31-07, 02:17 PM	you do realize you can play a gnoll at ECL1.... right? Races of wild has Monster classes. you'd have 1d8 humanoid hit dice, cleric BAB, good fort save, 2+in x4 skill points. check it out before you say "naa" because it really is a great idea when trying to play 2 or higher ECL monsters
foxtail 05-31-07, 02:39 PM	you do realize you can play a gnoll at ECL1.... right? Races of wild has Monster classes. you'd have 1d8 humanoid hit dice, cleric BAB, good fort save, 2+in x4 skill points. check it out before you say "naa" because it really is a great idea when trying to play 2 or higher ECL monsters I'm aware of monster classes, and I've looked into it. I'm of the opinion, though, that one monstrous humanoid level < one standard class level. If I'm moving into a combat-focused class, it might not make much difference in the end, especially with the high Str bonus and natural armor. But any caster class (or skill monkey, for that matter) is going to be weakened by that progression, IMO. Anyone is welcome to tell me I'm wrong, of course. Edit: BTW, thanks to everyone who's answered so far.
Neutronium_Dragon 05-31-07, 05:35 PM	The other problem is that the standard gnoll is a classic example of overcosted ECL. It would be fine at ECL 2, but at ECL 3 it's a joke, and the progression class doesn't help with that.