LA of Divine Rank 0 template? [Archive] - Wizards Community

LA of Divine Rank 0 template? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Reyemile
04-10-07, 06:24 PM What would be the LA to play with a Divine Rank 0 (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineRanksAndPowers.htm) character?

Specific thoughts:

We don't need to deal with the +13 to Natural Armor, since that only applies to Gods with Outsider hit dice.
The SR 32 kills any chance of the template being fairly costed, so let's assume that it's (12+hit dice), max 32.
The maximized hit point die is really hard to cost, since it gives 1.5 HP/level to wizards and 5.5 HP/level to Barbarians
I think that non-epic characters can't have DR/epic, but I don't know ELH rules that well--not sure what happens to it.
Mirtek
04-10-07, 06:32 PM We don't need to deal with the +13 to Natural Armor, since that only applies to Gods with Outsider hit dice.
While they say that in the earlier description all ascended deitie got their full 13+DvR, outsider HD or not.
Jaxgaret
04-11-07, 01:56 AM http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=11306578

LA +6 is commonly accepted.
Qube
04-11-07, 03:14 AM LA +6 is commonly accepted.
I calculated it once and I came at +7. seems I got quite close. :cool:
Jaxgaret
04-11-07, 03:28 AM I calculated it once and I came at +7. seems I got quite close. :cool:

Good job.

It might seem like a half-god template should cost more than +6 or +7 LA, but it doesn't.
Aryxbez
04-11-07, 05:10 PM How would one calculate LA? Also I have been really wanting to know this, but what is the CR adjustment for giving a creature a Divine Rank 0?
Witch
04-11-07, 05:12 PM CR adjustment is about +3. Double that to get the appropriate LA, which is +6.
Jaxgaret
04-11-07, 07:22 PM How would one calculate LA? Also I have been really wanting to know this, but what is the CR adjustment for giving a creature a Divine Rank 0?

CR adjustment is about +3. Double that to get the appropriate LA, which is +6.

Although I generally have high regard for your posts, Witch, I beg to disagree with you here. CR and LA have no real linear relation to each other, like you are suggesting. There are templates that increase CR more than they increase LA; there are templates that increase both by the same number; there are also templates that increase LA by exactly twice CR, and others in between and up and down.

It depends on the abilities and bonuses themselves that are being granted by the template. Some abilities and bonuses are much more useful to a PC than to an NPC foe - mostly ones that can be (ab)used frequently over time.

To answer Aryxbez's question: LA can be simple to calculate, or it can be difficult. There is a WotC product called Savage Species that lays down the fundamentals for calculating Level Adjustments.
Aryxbez
04-11-07, 09:41 PM yes I recall that book saying the formula, but what of the CR increase? is that correct as well? (the +3 CR?)
Jaxgaret
04-11-07, 11:03 PM yes I recall that book saying the formula, but what of the CR increase? is that correct as well? (the +3 CR?)

AFAIK, there is no WotC-endorsed way to calculate CR increases for templates. Nor a board-created one.

So it's pretty much play it by ear and wing it.

I would say CR +3 or CR +4 sounds just about right. Bump it up to CR +6 if the creature is an Outsider.

The LA needs to be bumped up to LA +8 or +9 if the PC is an Outsider race as well, due to the +13 natural armor.
Aryxbez
04-11-07, 11:14 PM Well that sucks, how else am I supposed to have final battles/encounters with creatures that have divine rank?
Also what does AFAIK mean?
Jaxgaret
04-11-07, 11:17 PM Well that sucks, how else am I supposed to have final battles/encounters with creatures that have divine rank?
Also what does AFAIK mean?

There are WotC and third-party products that stat out gods.

Or you could just wing it, like I suggested.

AFAIK = as far as i know
Qube
04-12-07, 01:57 AM How would one calculate LA?
I wing it. count the number of heavy abilities, give them a number, and take the sum.
its fingerspitsengeful (yeah, I can't spell in german)
Witch
04-12-07, 06:20 AM Although I generally have high regard for your posts, Witch, I beg to disagree with you here. CR and LA have no real linear relation to each other, like you are suggesting. There are templates that increase CR more than they increase LA; there are templates that increase both by the same number; there are also templates that increase LA by exactly twice CR, and others in between and up and down.
But in cases of doubt, it's not a bad idea to go with CR*2 = LA. (Note, I also go by the general rule that two epic class levels equal one CR, rather than by a one for one ratio - the same goes for LAs in that regard.)
Qube
04-12-07, 07:25 AM CR*2 = LA
I hope this only applies to templates ...

as a rule of thumb, it's usefull, but not as a rule in general
Witch
04-12-07, 07:29 AM I hope this only applies to templates ...

Yes - it'd be a crappy guideline on monsters :)
sigma999
04-12-07, 10:49 PM Well I had been wondering recently myself... But more reasonably, what's the LA of a Monster of Legend? I remember reading it somewhere here in a debate but couldn't find the resolution. Anyone know?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Reyemile 04-10-07, 06:24 PM	What would be the LA to play with a Divine Rank 0 (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineRanksAndPowers.htm) character? Specific thoughts: We don't need to deal with the +13 to Natural Armor, since that only applies to Gods with Outsider hit dice. The SR 32 kills any chance of the template being fairly costed, so let's assume that it's (12+hit dice), max 32. The maximized hit point die is really hard to cost, since it gives 1.5 HP/level to wizards and 5.5 HP/level to Barbarians I think that non-epic characters can't have DR/epic, but I don't know ELH rules that well--not sure what happens to it.
Mirtek 04-10-07, 06:32 PM	We don't need to deal with the +13 to Natural Armor, since that only applies to Gods with Outsider hit dice. While they say that in the earlier description all ascended deitie got their full 13+DvR, outsider HD or not.
Jaxgaret 04-11-07, 01:56 AM	http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=11306578 LA +6 is commonly accepted.
Qube 04-11-07, 03:14 AM	LA +6 is commonly accepted. I calculated it once and I came at +7. seems I got quite close. :cool:
Jaxgaret 04-11-07, 03:28 AM	I calculated it once and I came at +7. seems I got quite close. :cool: Good job. It might seem like a half-god template should cost more than +6 or +7 LA, but it doesn't.
Aryxbez 04-11-07, 05:10 PM	How would one calculate LA? Also I have been really wanting to know this, but what is the CR adjustment for giving a creature a Divine Rank 0?
Witch 04-11-07, 05:12 PM	CR adjustment is about +3. Double that to get the appropriate LA, which is +6.
Jaxgaret 04-11-07, 07:22 PM	How would one calculate LA? Also I have been really wanting to know this, but what is the CR adjustment for giving a creature a Divine Rank 0? CR adjustment is about +3. Double that to get the appropriate LA, which is +6. Although I generally have high regard for your posts, Witch, I beg to disagree with you here. CR and LA have no real linear relation to each other, like you are suggesting. There are templates that increase CR more than they increase LA; there are templates that increase both by the same number; there are also templates that increase LA by exactly twice CR, and others in between and up and down. It depends on the abilities and bonuses themselves that are being granted by the template. Some abilities and bonuses are much more useful to a PC than to an NPC foe - mostly ones that can be (ab)used frequently over time. To answer Aryxbez's question: LA can be simple to calculate, or it can be difficult. There is a WotC product called Savage Species that lays down the fundamentals for calculating Level Adjustments.
Aryxbez 04-11-07, 09:41 PM	yes I recall that book saying the formula, but what of the CR increase? is that correct as well? (the +3 CR?)
Jaxgaret 04-11-07, 11:03 PM	yes I recall that book saying the formula, but what of the CR increase? is that correct as well? (the +3 CR?) AFAIK, there is no WotC-endorsed way to calculate CR increases for templates. Nor a board-created one. So it's pretty much play it by ear and wing it. I would say CR +3 or CR +4 sounds just about right. Bump it up to CR +6 if the creature is an Outsider. The LA needs to be bumped up to LA +8 or +9 if the PC is an Outsider race as well, due to the +13 natural armor.
Aryxbez 04-11-07, 11:14 PM	Well that sucks, how else am I supposed to have final battles/encounters with creatures that have divine rank? Also what does AFAIK mean?
Jaxgaret 04-11-07, 11:17 PM	Well that sucks, how else am I supposed to have final battles/encounters with creatures that have divine rank? Also what does AFAIK mean? There are WotC and third-party products that stat out gods. Or you could just wing it, like I suggested. AFAIK = as far as i know
Qube 04-12-07, 01:57 AM	How would one calculate LA? I wing it. count the number of heavy abilities, give them a number, and take the sum. its fingerspitsengeful (yeah, I can't spell in german)
Witch 04-12-07, 06:20 AM	Although I generally have high regard for your posts, Witch, I beg to disagree with you here. CR and LA have no real linear relation to each other, like you are suggesting. There are templates that increase CR more than they increase LA; there are templates that increase both by the same number; there are also templates that increase LA by exactly twice CR, and others in between and up and down. But in cases of doubt, it's not a bad idea to go with CR*2 = LA. (Note, I also go by the general rule that two epic class levels equal one CR, rather than by a one for one ratio - the same goes for LAs in that regard.)
Qube 04-12-07, 07:25 AM	CR*2 = LA I hope this only applies to templates ... as a rule of thumb, it's usefull, but not as a rule in general
Witch 04-12-07, 07:29 AM	I hope this only applies to templates ... Yes - it'd be a crappy guideline on monsters :)
sigma999 04-12-07, 10:49 PM	Well I had been wondering recently myself... But more reasonably, what's the LA of a Monster of Legend? I remember reading it somewhere here in a debate but couldn't find the resolution. Anyone know?