Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Silversheen197 12-11-07, 02:54 PM	I was playing Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance, and I felt the sudden urge to create laguz as a race for D&D (not sure where I'm going to use them yet, but oh well). Now, the basics are simple: just use base human, and apply the lycanthrope template to them (removing the bonus feat and extra skill points). But there came to be a couple of hang-ups. The first is that I'm not far enough into the game to have seen more than a passing glimpse of the dragon-tribe, and so don't know how big they are, or what special abilities they have. So, this thread basically comes down to two questions: First, without spoiling much of the remainder of the game for me, can you tell me what types of dragons there are (the beasts have cats (I used the leopard stats), tigers, and lions, the birds have crows, hawks, and herons, what types of dragons are there? I think I heard red, white, and black?), and what kinds of special abilities do they have? And second, how should their transforming work? I know they can't stay in animal form all the time, but as the third cut-scene showed (the one of the laguz council gathering), they can remain in it long enough to cover some serious ground. Also, they're not limited to a number of transformations to a day. Some ideas I was throwing around were that they can remain in animal form for a number of hours per day equal to either their Constitution score, Constitution modifier, or Hit Dice (not sure which). How would everyone on the boards handle this?
baby_kamikaize_kobold 12-11-07, 06:00 PM	good idea going with the lycanthrope. as for the dragons. You only get one in the game and it breaths fire and I'd say it's size is huge since they are bigger than the other laguz. How are you going to work the bird tribes in? I mean when they are not in animal form would they still have wings?
Holy_Beholder 12-11-07, 06:13 PM	There are 2 you can get, a black one or a pink one. I won't spoil the game to show the different ways to get them. As for the change, to maintain animal form you have to make a will save of 2+2 per round in animal form. Then you have to wait as long in human form as you were in animal form.
Silversheen197 12-11-07, 07:49 PM	good idea going with the lycanthrope. as for the dragons. You only get one in the game and it breaths fire and I'd say it's size is huge since they are bigger than the other laguz. How are you going to work the bird tribes in? I mean when they are not in animal form would they still have wings? Okay, fire breath. Makes sense. And yes, the birds will still have wings, but I was thinking that they'd have a low fly speed with poor manuverability. That way, to be an effective flyer, they need to transform. There are 2 you can get, a black one or a pink one. I won't spoil the game to show the different ways to get them. As for the change, to maintain animal form you have to make a will save of 2+2 per round in animal form. Then you have to wait as long in human form as you were in animal form. Pink? Strange...okay, so there are black, red, and pink dragons. Seems fair. Other than color, what kind of differences are there between the types? And do you ever fight any dragon laguz, and if so, what kind of attacks do they have? The only problem I have with your transformation system is that it would only give a laguz about a minute in animal form, and that's if their Will save is high. As I mentioned above, the third cut scene (the laguz council converging) shows the beast-king-guy (I forget his name) and his escort running towards the meeting place. At the beginning, they're pretty far out, then it cuts to them being up close to it, which is when they transform back. I would have to say that the journey took them at least 10 minutes, just judging from the original distance, and the escort never actually changed back afterwards, they were still beasts at the end of the two minute long video. So the transformations need to be able to last. The only reason they don't in battle is because that wouldn't be fair ;) ...
Thundajia 12-12-07, 01:34 PM	ok i know what ur talking about dude cause i too as a dm have got that urge to create the laguz. for dragons there's only red (but some are pink so just use reds stats) only 1 white (if u've beaten the game then pm me on neoseeker) and only 1 black (the kings mount) so if u wanted to make more then i guess its posible if ur not following the story line. but if ur following the story line only use the red dragons! if u have any questions about fire emblem path of radiance Pm me on neoseeker my user name is Ultima228
Silversheen197 12-12-07, 03:35 PM	ok i know what ur talking about dude cause i too as a dm have got that urge to create the laguz. for dragons there's only red (but some are pink so just use reds stats) only 1 white (if u've beaten the game then pm me on neoseeker) and only 1 black (the kings mount) so if u wanted to make more then i guess its posible if ur not following the story line. but if ur following the story line only use the red dragons! if u have any questions about fire emblem path of radiance Pm me on neoseeker my user name is Ultima228 Ummm, huh :confused: ? I'm sorry, but the lack of grammar and spelling makes this exceedingly difficult for me to read. Could anyone translate for me?
Holy_Beholder 12-12-07, 06:24 PM	He wanted to say that he wanted to create the laguz too as a DM, there are reds(pinks are reds, with the same stats), a black which is the kings mount, and a white. The story line only uses red dragons if you follow it*. If you want to know about the white dragon or have questions go to neoseeker** and PM Ultima 228, his account on it. This is pretty much just the gist of it, there is no way I am going to fix the quote. *Although you can get a black, I won't reveal how still. **A website probably.
Master_Vega 12-12-07, 06:58 PM	Okay, fire breath. Makes sense. And yes, the birds will still have wings, but I was thinking that they'd have a low fly speed with poor manuverability. That way, to be an effective flyer, they need to transform. Pink? Strange...okay, so there are black, red, and pink dragons. Seems fair. Other than color, what kind of differences are there between the types? And do you ever fight any dragon laguz, and if so, what kind of attacks do they have? The only problem I have with your transformation system is that it would only give a laguz about a minute in animal form, and that's if their Will save is high. As I mentioned above, the third cut scene (the laguz council converging) shows the beast-king-guy (I forget his name) and his escort running towards the meeting place. At the beginning, they're pretty far out, then it cuts to them being up close to it, which is when they transform back. I would have to say that the journey took them at least 10 minutes, just judging from the original distance, and the escort never actually changed back afterwards, they were still beasts at the end of the two minute long video. So the transformations need to be able to last. The only reason they don't in battle is because that wouldn't be fair ;) ... I'm not going to add much, but the guy is the beast-king. In addition he could have been wearing a Focus Demi Band (which powers down laguz in animal form, but lets them stay in animal form as long as they wear it.) As for stats, perhaps the Demi band would give a -2 to all enhanced abilities while transformed?
asurademon 12-12-07, 07:58 PM	Well there's a few ways that laguz would need to be different than lycanthropes, for one laguz don't have a hybrid form, and they probably shouldn't be bound to a certain alignment like lycanthropes are, I'd also get rid of the whole deal with silver, I don't think any of them are particularly sensitive to certain types of metal. However they are sensitive to certain types of magic (beasts are sensitive to fire magic, and birds to wind magic) so you might want to work that in some how. I'd base their animal forms on dire versions of the animals they become, because most of them are much larger (all though I don't think wolf laguz are much larger than normal wolves). There's also the option of taking their animal, and using the rules to increase their size, that way for the cat laguz you could simply take a cat and increase its size to medium. Also I think the tigers are actually sabre toothed tigers, I can't remember if those are in the Monster Manual or not. As far as a time limit on how long they can be in animal form, there is some discrepancy between how long they can stay in animal form during the battles, and how long they stay in animal form during the cut scene. If I remember right in Radiant Dawn there's a cut scene where the bird laguz travel a long distance while in bird form. I've concluded that the reason they have a time limit during the battles is for the sake of balance, and so that you have to deal with laguz differently as far as strategy goes, and that it doesn't really apply to their fluff. There's other limits besides time that can be put on when they can be in animal form, for the sake of not making them too powerful. Perhaps if they are reduced to too low of hit points, or if they become knocked unconscious, or fatigued, and you could (and probably should) limit how many times each day they can shape shift. Or perhaps they can shape shift more and for longer times as they increase in level, eventually not having a limit. Any (or even a combination) of those things are options.
Silversheen197 12-12-07, 10:40 PM	Well there's a few ways that laguz would need to be different than lycanthropes, for one laguz don't have a hybrid form, and they probably shouldn't be bound to a certain alignment like lycanthropes are, I'd also get rid of the whole deal with silver, I don't think any of them are particularly sensitive to certain types of metal. However they are sensitive to certain types of magic (beasts are sensitive to fire magic, and birds to wind magic) so you might want to work that in some how. I'd base their animal forms on dire versions of the animals they become, because most of them are much larger (all though I don't think wolf laguz are much larger than normal wolves). There's also the option of taking their animal, and using the rules to increase their size, that way for the cat laguz you could simply take a cat and increase its size to medium. Also I think the tigers are actually sabre toothed tigers, I can't remember if those are in the Monster Manual or not. As far as a time limit on how long they can be in animal form, there is some discrepancy between how long they can stay in animal form during the battles, and how long they stay in animal form during the cut scene. If I remember right in Radiant Dawn there's a cut scene where the bird laguz travel a long distance while in bird form. I've concluded that the reason they have a time limit during the battles is for the sake of balance, and so that you have to deal with laguz differently as far as strategy goes, and that it doesn't really apply to their fluff. There's other limits besides time that can be put on when they can be in animal form, for the sake of not making them too powerful. Perhaps if they are reduced to too low of hit points, or if they become knocked unconscious, or fatigued, and you could (and probably should) limit how many times each day they can shape shift. Or perhaps they can shape shift more and for longer times as they increase in level, eventually not having a limit. Any (or even a combination) of those things are options. Okay, here's what I have so far on my laguz: —+2 Str, –2 Int, –2 Cha —Medium —Base land speed: 30 ft. —Low-light vision —Scent When Transformed: —Pounce, improved grab, rake —3d8 racial Hit Dice (+2 BAB, Fort +3, Ref +1, Will +1, racial skills: Balance, Climb, Hide, Jump, Listen, Move Silently, Spot) —+8 Jump, Balance, and Climb —+4 Hide and Move Silently When Transformed: —Base land speed 40 ft., climb 20 ft. —+1 natural armor —+6 Str, +8 Dex, +4 Con —Bite (1d6), 2 claws (1d3) —In undergrowth, Hide bonus increases to +8 —6d8 racial Hit Dice (+4 BAB, Fort +5, Ref +2, Will +2, racial skills: Balance, Hide, Listen, Move Silently, Spot, Swim) —+4 Balance, Hide, Move Silently When Transformed: —Large size (space/reach–10 ft./5 ft.) —Base land speed 40 ft. —+3 natural armor —+12 Str, +4 Dex, +6 Con —2 claws (1d6) and bite (1d8) —In undergrowth, Hide bonus becomes +8 —5d8 racial Hit Dice (+3 BAB, Fort +4, Ref +1, Will +1; racial skills: Balance, Hide, Listen, Move Silently, Spot) —+4 Balance, Hide, Move Silently When Transformed: —Large size (space/reach–10 ft./5 ft.) —Base land speed 40 ft. —+3 natural armor —+10 Str, +6 Dex, +4 Con —2 claws (1d4) and bite (1d8) —In undergrowth, Hide bonus becomes +12 —+2 Dex, –2 Con, –2 Cha —Medium —Base land speed: 30 ft., fly 30 ft. (poor) —Low-light vision —3d8 racial Hit Dice (+2 BAB; Fort +1, Ref +3, Will +1; racial skills: Bluff, Listen, Sense Motive, Slight of Hand, Spot) When Transformed: —Base land speed 20 ft., fly 70 ft. (average) —+1 natural armor — –2 Str, +10 Dex —Bite (1d6) and 2 claws (1d3) —4d8 racial Hit Dice (+3 BAB; Fort +1, Ref +4, Will +1; racial skills: Knowledge (nature), Listen, Sense Motive, Spot, Survival) —+8 Spot When Transformed: —Medium size —Base land speed 10 ft., fly 80 ft. (average) —+4 natural armor —+4 Str, +8 Dex —2 claws (1d4) and bite (1d6) —+4 Charisma —+4 Listen, Spot, Perform (sing) When Transformed —Base land speed 20 ft., fly 60 ft. (good) — –2 Str, +8 Dex, —bite (1d4) and 2 claws (1d3) Also, I'm not familiar with wolf laguz ;) . What I'm thinking is that the transformations will work like this: they can transform a number of times per day equal to half their Hit Dice (rounded up), and the transformation lasts for one minute per HD + their improved Con modifier. As for what the above sblocks mean, the stuff that is not in a secondary sblock, all laguz of that tribe have those alterations. The secondary sblocks are for the specific type of laguz. How does this look? And of course, I still need suggestions for the dragon's stats. Edit: Oh, and laguz items: Laguz Stone: Up to twice per day, you can force yourself into a laguz transformation. Demi Band: You can remain in a laguz transformation for hours instead of minutes, except the ability score bonuses for transforming are haved (rounded down).
Silversheen197 12-14-07, 09:53 PM	Okay, I've come up with some fluff for the laguz, as well as written up a base for their general abilities: Laguz The laguz, also known as the beast-people, are shapeshifters with animalistic features. They prefer to live in remote areas, and built their cities around the natural formations present. There are three tribes of laguz, the Beast-tribe, the Bird-tribe, and the Dragon-tribe. Each tribe has three individual types of laguz with different abilities. But, no matter what tribe or type, all laguz share several characteristics: —Humanoid (Shapechanger): Laguz are humanoids with the shapechanger subtype. —+2 Wisdom: Laguz are strong-willed and ever-alert. —Iron Will: All laguz have Iron Will as a bonus feat. —Medium: in their natural form, all laguz are Medium-sized. —Base land speed 30 feet. —Weapon Non-familiarity: Laguz tend to use their claws and fangs instead of manufactured weapons, and so are unfamiliar with most types of weapons. All simple weapons are martial weapons for a laguz, and all martial weapons are exotic weapons. Therefore, a laguz fighter will have proficiency with only simple weapons. —Laguz Transformation: A laguz can assume a specific animal form as a standard action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity a number of times per day equal to 1/2 his Hit Dice (rounded down) + his Wisdom modifier. Such transformations last for a number of minutes equal to the laguz’s Hit Dice plus his (improved) Constitution modifier. In addition, a laguz can extend his transformation by another minute by making a successful Will save with a DC equal to 10 + two times the number of such successful attempts. However, if a laguz extends his transformation in this fashion, he is fatigued for 5 minutes per extension afterwards. During a transformation, apply all the listed modifiers to the laguz’s statistics that are listed in its description. —Energy Vulnerability: Laguz are vulnerable to a certain type of energy, depending on their tribe. The beast tribe is vulnerable to fire, the bird tribe is vulnerable to cold, and the dragon tribe is vulnerable to electricity. ----------------------------------------------------------------- So, what do you think? Does it work?
Silversheen197 12-16-07, 09:27 PM	I guess nobody's very interested, so I'll just give this one last :bump: and be on my way. In addition to my bump, I've encountered my first dragon laguz in the game, and so I've come up with some tenative stats for the dragon tribes: —+2 Int, +2 Cha —Medium —Base land speed 30 ft. —Darkvision 60 ft. —Immunity to sleep and paralysis —8d8 racial Hit Dice (+6 BAB; Fort +2, Ref +2, Will +6; racial skills Climb, Concentration, Diplomacy, Escape Artist, Intimidate, Listen, Search, Spot, Sense Motive, Swim, Use Magic Device) —+4 Str —Resistance to fire 15 When Transformed: —Large size (space/reach–10 ft./10 ft.) —Fly 60 ft. (average) —+7 natural armor —+16 Str, +6 Con —2 claws (1d8) and bite (2d6) —Breath weapon: every 1d4 rounds, 30-ft. line, 4d6 fire damage, Reflex DC 14 + Con for half —8d8 racial Hit Dice (+6 BAB; Fort +2, Ref +2, Will +6; racial skills Concentration, Diplomacy, Escape Artist, Intimidate, Knowledge (arcana), Listen, Search, Spellcraft, Spot, Sense Motive, Use Magic Device) —+4 Cha —Resistance to cold 15 When Transformed: —Large size (space/reach–10 ft./10 ft.) —Fly 60 ft. (average) —+7 natural armor —+16 Str, +6 Con —2 claws (1d6) and bite (1d8) —Breath weapon: every 1d4 rounds, 30-ft. line, 4d6 cold damage, Reflex DC 14 + Con for half —Spell resistance 9 + HD —8d8 racial Hit Dice (+6 BAB; Fort +2, Ref +2, Will +6; racial skills Concentration, Diplomacy, Escape Artist, Intimidate, Listen, Move Silently, Search, Spot, Sense Motive, Tumble, Use Magic Device) —+4 Dex —Resistance to sonic 15 When Transformed: —Large size (space/reach–10 ft./10 ft.) —Fly 60 ft. (average) —+7 natural armor —+16 Str +6 Con —2 claws (1d6) and bite (1d8) —Breath weapon: every 1d4 rounds, 30-ft. line, 4d6 electricity damage, Reflex DC 14 + Con for half —Evasion So, does anyone have first-off level adjustments for any of these (including those laguz in the posts above)?
AtsuiShoto 12-17-07, 10:07 AM	If you really want the animal forms to last so long outside of combat, but still be limited in duration during combat, I would make the duration dependent upon hitpoints. Once per round, at the beginning of your turn, you must make a Fortitude save or revert to human form. At full HP, the DC of the check is 1. If you take even 1 point of lethal damage, the DC increases to 10. For every 5 points of lethal damage taken after that, the DC increases by 2. It's just a rough idea. Perhaps the DC should be based on percent remaining of total HP, but I had hoped to keep the on-the-fly math much easier than that. When at full HP, the character can simply ignore the check, because it's an automatic success, unless the Fortitude modifier is too far into the negatives for one reason or another.
baby_kamikaize_kobold 12-17-07, 10:59 AM	I like you heron laguz. maybe for the duration during the combat 5 rounds flat and then every round after that they make a fort save DC20 to stay transformed. However the DC is modified in that they minus their con modifier from it. that would make the stronger laguz (like beast and dragons) stay transformed while the weaker ones (like the heron) wouldn't stay as long. just an idea
Supercupcake 12-17-07, 03:03 PM	Nothing beats FE. It's totally my fave game ever. I loooove this race too. And pink dragon laguz for the win. :cheer:
Silversheen197 12-31-07, 05:30 PM	Okay, it's been a while since I've been on the boards. I've finished Path of Radiance, so holy_beholder, if you want to reveal how I get a black dragon now, feel free. I did get Nasir, who's a white, by beating the Black Knight (I got EXTREMELY lucky; the attack on both my and his first turn was an Aether!), and I'm pretty sure you can get Ena if you lose (who's a red), but how the heck can you get a black? Oh, yes, and I'm playing Radiant Dawn now, so no spoilers, please! (Oh, and the dragon laguz stats a couple of posts above are done now :) .) Anyways, back to D&D races related stuff: I'm currently trying to make a Fire Emblem Campaign setting, where the Laguz of this topic will be some of the many races. However, they can't be used at 1st level as they are now, and I'd like them to be able to. So, to remedy that problem, I thought I could do things kinda like they did with the WoW Campaign setting, where races that are naturally more powerful have a racial class (like a Racial Paragon class or a Monster Class) that they can take levels in if they want to to gain access to their race's more powerful abilities. I'd apreciate any help you can give me on that. Thanks in advance!
Silversheen197 01-01-08, 07:48 PM	Okay, as I talked about in my previous post, I wanted to make laguz playable from first level, but to have the ability to become the animalistic monsters that they are in the games. So, here's my first attempt, the tiger laguz. How this works is the normal race writeup is the "1st-level" stats. You can take that and go into any class you want. At any time, you can start taking levels in the Tiger Laguz Racial Class below. The racial class doesn't count as a class for multiclass penalties, and you're not required to take all 6 levels before you take anything else: —Humanoid (Laguz, Shapechanger): Tiger laguz are humanoids with the laguz and shapechanger subtypes. —+2 Constitution, +2 Wisdom, –2 Charisma —Medium: As Medium creatures, tiger laguz have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size. —Tiger laguz base land speed is 30 feet. —Iron Will: Tiger laguz gain the feat Iron Will as a bonus feat at 1st level. —Greater low-light vision: Tiger laguz can see three times as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, or other conditions of poor illumination. He retains the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions. —+4 racial bonus on Balance checks. —+4 racial bonus on Hide and Move Silently checks. —Weapon Non-Familiarity: Laguz are not skilled with manufactured weapons, and therefore need more training to become proficient. They treat simple weapons as martial weapons and martial and exotic weapons as exotic weapons. When they would receive Simple Weapon Proficiency, either by class levels or the feat, they can instead choose a number of simple weapons (minimum 1) equal to their Intelligence bonus to become proficient with. If they would receive proficiency with all martial weapons, they instead become proficient with all simple weapons. If a laguz would become proficient with a specific list of weapons, they choose only half of that list to become proficient with. —Fire Vulnerability: Beast laguz are vulnerable to fire magic, and take +50% damage from any spell, spell-like ability, or supernatural ability with the [Fire] descriptor or that deals fire damage. If such an ability does not deal fire damage, they instead take a –4 penalty on their save. They do not take extra damage from natural fire or extraordinary abilities that deal fire damage, however. —Laguz Transformation: Once per day per two levels (minimum 1/day), a tiger laguz can assume the form of a tiger. This transformation lasts for 3 minutes plus an additional minute per point of Consitution bonus. While transformed, the tiger laguz’ base land speed increases to 40 feet, his Strength score increases by 2, his natural armor increases by 2, and gains a natural bite attack that deals 1d6 damage plus 1-1/2 times his Strength modifier. In addition, while in tiger form, their racial bonus to Hide checks increases to a +8 while in areas of tall grass or heavy undergrowth. Any equipment that could be held or carried in the same place as it is in tiger form is unaffected by the change, but all clothing and other equipment is melded with the tiger form and becomes useless. A tiger laguz cannot speak or cast spells that require a verbal or somatic component in tiger form. —Favored Class: Barbarian. Base Fort Ref Will Level Attack Bonus Save Save Save Special 1st +1 +2 +0 +0 Str +2, Dex +2, scent 2nd +2 +3 +0 +0 Str +2, natural armor +1, 2 claws 3rd +3 +3 +1 +1 Con +2, improved grab, Large 4th +4 +4 +1 +1 Str +2, Dex +2, pounce 5th +5 +4 +1 +1 Str +2, Con +2, rake 6th +6 +5 +2 +2 Str +2, Con +2 Hit Die: d10. Skills per Level: 2 + Int modifier (x4 at 1st level) Class Skills: Balance, Hide, Listen, Move Silently, Spot, Swim. Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Tiger laguz are not proficient in any weapons or armor, nor are they proficient with shields. Ability Scores: In tiger form, add all the listed ability modifiers. The modifiers are cumulative, so a 4th-level tiger laguz has a +8 to Strength, a +4 to Dexterity, and a +2 to Constitution in tiger form. Scent (Ex): At 1st level, a tiger laguz gains the scent special ability in both forms. See the description in the Monster Manual for more details. Natural Armor: At 2nd level, the tiger laguz’ natural armor bonus in tiger form increases again, to a total of +3. Claws: At 2nd level, a tiger laguz gains 2 claw attacks that deal 1d4 points of damage plus 1/2 his Strength modifier as secondary natural attacks. Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, a tiger laguz in tiger form must hit with a bite attack. If it hits, it may then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold and can rake if it has that attack form. Large: At 3rd level, a tiger laguz’ tiger form becomes Large size. He takes a –1 size penalty on attack rolls and AC in that form, as well as a –4 penalty on Hide checks, and his space/reach changes to 10 ft./5 ft., but the base damage from his claw attacks increase to 1d6 and the base damage from his bite attack increases to 1d8. Pounce (Ex): Starting at 4th level, if a tiger laguz in tiger form charges a foe, it can make a full attack, including two rake attacks if it has that attack form. Rake (Ex): At 5th level, a tiger laguz in tiger form gains extra attacks with his rear claws in certain circumstances. When he makes a pounce attack or starts the turn grappling his opponent, he can make two additional claw attacks against the target for normal claw damage. He cannot begin a grapple and rake in the same turn. Rake attacks are not subject to the normal –4 penalty for attacking with a natural weapon in a grapple. Tiger Laguz Feats coming soon to a thread near you. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Okay, so, requests for P.E.A.C.H.ing: 1) Is the base race balanced? and 2) Is the racial class balanced? That's basically it. Thanks!