Large LA +0 races? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Large LA +0 races? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
tundrawalker
09-10-07, 04:58 PM Hey gang. I am looking but am having a rough time finding any Large creatures or races with a LA of 0. I have a neat combo for a TWF Dervish using Strongarm bracers so I am looking for a bunch of races that are large but I really don't want a LA. Any suggestions?
Drodain
09-10-07, 05:07 PM I'm pretty sure they all have atleast a LA of +1. Being large pretty much boosts every character to atleast a +1.
DMs_Favourite
09-10-07, 05:11 PM That or you throw a huge number of levels into racial hit dice. But there probably isn't one worth playing that doesn't soak up levels to play. Reach is the most worthwhile thing from size and in all but the true blasters it is an advantage to have.
j3st3r
09-10-07, 05:34 PM Half-Ogre (newest official version from Races of Destiny) is probably the most feasible way to have "true" large character, and even with LA+2 the Racial Traits compensate it quite nicely.
Orenmir
09-10-07, 06:00 PM Being Large isn't what usually makes LA at least +1; it's the attributes that go with being Large: reach, large weapon use, more strength, +4 on many checks such as tripping and grappling. Reach is probably worth LA +1 by itself, the others are worth another +1.

So, to be Large and LA +0, you'll probably need to hombrew a race and try to leave out Reach, and balance the other stuff. Unfortunately, by the time you take all that stuff out...why be Large? You'll have to ask yourself what it is about Large that you want, and weed the rest out, then try to balance.

Good luck!
tundrawalker
09-10-07, 06:41 PM Reach and being able to wield larger weapons is what I am looking for. I would say the reason I am having a difficult time finding a Large race with a LA of 0 is because they probably don't exist. But I will keep looking. If anyone knows of one, please direct me.
Jaxgaret
09-10-07, 06:46 PM A Large LA +0 or +1 race does not exist in any official 3.5 book.

LA +2 is the lowest you will see for an official 3.5 Large race.

There is the Half-Minotaur template from Dragon 313, which gives Large size and other benefits for LA +1, but it should really have a higher LA.
Orenmir
09-10-07, 07:08 PM Reach and being able to wield larger weapons is what I am looking for.

That by itself is worth about LA +1.5. Trying to balance that out to make +0 will be impossible.

I think you're asking for something that will never exist.

If you're DM is Santa Claus, you may be able to homebrew a race that is Large and..... -6 Str, -4 Con, -4 Dex. You get the idea... A tall, skinny, frail clutz!
Angel Black
09-10-07, 07:15 PM Hey gang. I am looking but am having a rough time finding any Large creatures or races with a LA of 0. I have a neat combo for a TWF Dervish using Strongarm bracers so I am looking for a bunch of races that are large but I really don't want a LA. Any suggestions?

Monkey Grip is Monkey Grip.(unless you really want to have Powerful build, then take Goliath)
Kadasbrass
09-10-07, 07:18 PM Human with a pernament Enlarge Person :P
tundrawalker
09-10-07, 07:54 PM Well, I looked through every source I have and didn't find one. So there are no LA 0 large creatures or no LA 0 multi-armed creatures. Funny that the Star Wars RPG does. Snow elf it is then I guess.
xdahnx
09-10-07, 08:34 PM I was going to just mention the spell "Enlarge Person".

You get some neat things in there for a 1-Level slot.
Hell, get it permanancied. (made permanent, you know what i mean).

Should be very easy to find someone to do it for you...
Joshbuckler
09-11-07, 02:35 AM You're out of luck as far as published races. A couple of possibilities for tweaking though:

powerful build: see the Goliath from Races of Stone and the Half-giant from Expanded Psionics Handbook. IIRC these races have LA +1. However, remove a couple of their other abilities, or add penalties, and you could easily have something that works at LA +0.

psi-like or spell-like ability once/day. See the Duergar from Expanded Psionics Handbook. The duergar has limited access to the psionic expansion power, though it is also LA +1. However, remove some special abilities, or add penalties, to get down to LA +0.

Furthermore, there are feats available in some sourcebooks that allow you to cast a single spell or manifest a single power once per day. One example is the Hidden Talent feat in the Expanded Psionics Handbook, which would allow you to know expansion. Complete Arcane also has several feats that would allow you to know a few spells for the cost of one feat. Although enlarge person doesn't appear there, it is easy to imagine a feat that would allow you to cast it.

Finally, with those ideas as guidelines, you and your DM could probably come up with a feat to grant limited access to Large size for your character. Maybe your character can only become Large at certain times. Maybe your character is a barbarian that can become larger the first time he rages each day. Maybe your character is a beast-type humanoid that needs to use his arms on the ground to keep his balance while walking, and thus can only use his reach if he doesn't take any move actions during the round.
tundrawalker
09-11-07, 06:09 AM I ran it by my DM and he actually will permit my character to have the Enlarge Spell cast on him with permanency. WOW. I thought it was a stretch but he went for it. He says it will cost 7500 of the starting gold. We may be starting on level 8 and therefore receive 27000 gp according to the DMG. I think that is very worth it. So I think it will be a permanently enlarged Snow Elf. GRAVEY!!!
war_thog
09-11-07, 08:50 AM Why is that amazing? Its perfectly feasible and is a suggested option in permanency.
Just costs $$.
Ace_of_time
09-11-07, 09:08 AM Human with a pernament Enlarge Person :P

Go Goliath with the pernament Enlarge Person. Then you would need the bracers at all.
YabaTheWhat
09-11-07, 09:10 AM Why is that amazing? Its perfectly feasible and is a suggested option in permanency.
Just costs $$. A magic item would do the same thing, could not be permanently dispelled (by an area or targeted Dispel Magic), and could be removed in squeezing situations.
Kadasbrass
09-11-07, 10:25 AM Go Goliath with the pernament Enlarge Person. Then you would need the bracers at all.

Can't, their monsterous humanoid instead of just humanoid and "person" spells only hit humanoids :(
Ace_of_time
09-11-07, 10:42 AM They're still Humaniod. Didn't know the monster part mattered?
Orchomenos
09-11-07, 10:45 AM Can't, their monsterous humanoid instead of just humanoid and "person" spells only hit humanoids :(

But the Expansion psionic power would work on a goliath psychic warrior... And it would stack with the Montain Rage goliath racial substitution... Only two class levels and a +1 LA, and you're Huge, buddy!
Ace_of_time
09-11-07, 11:19 AM Does that spell/power make you huge? Because Goliath IS med and is counted as large for the plus of being large but not the minuses. If the spell/ power just increases one size up then he would be large using huge weapon with no penalty.
JulesCARV
09-11-07, 11:22 AM I think anthropomorphic baleen whale is large and has LA +0, but it 1) has three racial hit dice, 2) is hideously broken regardless, and 3) is from Savage Species.
YabaTheWhat
09-11-07, 11:52 AM 3) is from Savage Species. The biggest problem with Savage Species is that it was written by three different authors, each of whom worked on his/her own section without any regard for (and possibly without any knowledge of) each other's contributions. The level adjustment approximator in the early part of the book may have been oversimplified, but it provided a good concept, and was better than anything else existing at the time. Material found later in the book, such as the anthro animals, was created without any consideration towards balance.
Orchomenos
09-11-07, 02:50 PM Does that spell/power make you huge? Because Goliath IS med and is counted as large for the plus of being large but not the minuses. If the spell/ power just increases one size up then he would be large using huge weapon with no penalty.

The basic Expansion (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/psionicPowersDtoF.html#expansion)power make you one size larger. Though if you spend 6 more power points (thus, if you are at leats 7th level), you can be two sizes larger instead.

The real trick here is the Goliath Barbarian Substition Level. When you rage, you can become really Large (instead of Powerful Build). Since Expansion makes you one size larger, a raging goliath barbarian/psychic warrior would then become Huge. And if he's an higher level psychic warrior, he might become Gargantuan.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
tundrawalker 09-10-07, 04:58 PM	Hey gang. I am looking but am having a rough time finding any Large creatures or races with a LA of 0. I have a neat combo for a TWF Dervish using Strongarm bracers so I am looking for a bunch of races that are large but I really don't want a LA. Any suggestions?
Drodain 09-10-07, 05:07 PM	I'm pretty sure they all have atleast a LA of +1. Being large pretty much boosts every character to atleast a +1.
DMs_Favourite 09-10-07, 05:11 PM	That or you throw a huge number of levels into racial hit dice. But there probably isn't one worth playing that doesn't soak up levels to play. Reach is the most worthwhile thing from size and in all but the true blasters it is an advantage to have.
j3st3r 09-10-07, 05:34 PM	Half-Ogre (newest official version from Races of Destiny) is probably the most feasible way to have "true" large character, and even with LA+2 the Racial Traits compensate it quite nicely.
Orenmir 09-10-07, 06:00 PM	Being Large isn't what usually makes LA at least +1; it's the attributes that go with being Large: reach, large weapon use, more strength, +4 on many checks such as tripping and grappling. Reach is probably worth LA +1 by itself, the others are worth another +1. So, to be Large and LA +0, you'll probably need to hombrew a race and try to leave out Reach, and balance the other stuff. Unfortunately, by the time you take all that stuff out...why be Large? You'll have to ask yourself what it is about Large that you want, and weed the rest out, then try to balance. Good luck!
tundrawalker 09-10-07, 06:41 PM	Reach and being able to wield larger weapons is what I am looking for. I would say the reason I am having a difficult time finding a Large race with a LA of 0 is because they probably don't exist. But I will keep looking. If anyone knows of one, please direct me.
Jaxgaret 09-10-07, 06:46 PM	A Large LA +0 or +1 race does not exist in any official 3.5 book. LA +2 is the lowest you will see for an official 3.5 Large race. There is the Half-Minotaur template from Dragon 313, which gives Large size and other benefits for LA +1, but it should really have a higher LA.
Orenmir 09-10-07, 07:08 PM	Reach and being able to wield larger weapons is what I am looking for. That by itself is worth about LA +1.5. Trying to balance that out to make +0 will be impossible. I think you're asking for something that will never exist. If you're DM is Santa Claus, you may be able to homebrew a race that is Large and..... -6 Str, -4 Con, -4 Dex. You get the idea... A tall, skinny, frail clutz!
Angel Black 09-10-07, 07:15 PM	Hey gang. I am looking but am having a rough time finding any Large creatures or races with a LA of 0. I have a neat combo for a TWF Dervish using Strongarm bracers so I am looking for a bunch of races that are large but I really don't want a LA. Any suggestions? Monkey Grip is Monkey Grip.(unless you really want to have Powerful build, then take Goliath)
Kadasbrass 09-10-07, 07:18 PM	Human with a pernament Enlarge Person :P
tundrawalker 09-10-07, 07:54 PM	Well, I looked through every source I have and didn't find one. So there are no LA 0 large creatures or no LA 0 multi-armed creatures. Funny that the Star Wars RPG does. Snow elf it is then I guess.
xdahnx 09-10-07, 08:34 PM	I was going to just mention the spell "Enlarge Person". You get some neat things in there for a 1-Level slot. Hell, get it permanancied. (made permanent, you know what i mean). Should be very easy to find someone to do it for you...
Joshbuckler 09-11-07, 02:35 AM	You're out of luck as far as published races. A couple of possibilities for tweaking though: powerful build: see the Goliath from Races of Stone and the Half-giant from Expanded Psionics Handbook. IIRC these races have LA +1. However, remove a couple of their other abilities, or add penalties, and you could easily have something that works at LA +0. psi-like or spell-like ability once/day. See the Duergar from Expanded Psionics Handbook. The duergar has limited access to the psionic expansion power, though it is also LA +1. However, remove some special abilities, or add penalties, to get down to LA +0. Furthermore, there are feats available in some sourcebooks that allow you to cast a single spell or manifest a single power once per day. One example is the Hidden Talent feat in the Expanded Psionics Handbook, which would allow you to know expansion. Complete Arcane also has several feats that would allow you to know a few spells for the cost of one feat. Although enlarge person doesn't appear there, it is easy to imagine a feat that would allow you to cast it. Finally, with those ideas as guidelines, you and your DM could probably come up with a feat to grant limited access to Large size for your character. Maybe your character can only become Large at certain times. Maybe your character is a barbarian that can become larger the first time he rages each day. Maybe your character is a beast-type humanoid that needs to use his arms on the ground to keep his balance while walking, and thus can only use his reach if he doesn't take any move actions during the round.
tundrawalker 09-11-07, 06:09 AM	I ran it by my DM and he actually will permit my character to have the Enlarge Spell cast on him with permanency. WOW. I thought it was a stretch but he went for it. He says it will cost 7500 of the starting gold. We may be starting on level 8 and therefore receive 27000 gp according to the DMG. I think that is very worth it. So I think it will be a permanently enlarged Snow Elf. GRAVEY!!!
war_thog 09-11-07, 08:50 AM	Why is that amazing? Its perfectly feasible and is a suggested option in permanency. Just costs $$.
Ace_of_time 09-11-07, 09:08 AM	Human with a pernament Enlarge Person :P Go Goliath with the pernament Enlarge Person. Then you would need the bracers at all.
YabaTheWhat 09-11-07, 09:10 AM	Why is that amazing? Its perfectly feasible and is a suggested option in permanency. Just costs $$. A magic item would do the same thing, could not be permanently dispelled (by an area or targeted Dispel Magic), and could be removed in squeezing situations.
Kadasbrass 09-11-07, 10:25 AM	Go Goliath with the pernament Enlarge Person. Then you would need the bracers at all. Can't, their monsterous humanoid instead of just humanoid and "person" spells only hit humanoids :(
Ace_of_time 09-11-07, 10:42 AM	They're still Humaniod. Didn't know the monster part mattered?
Orchomenos 09-11-07, 10:45 AM	Can't, their monsterous humanoid instead of just humanoid and "person" spells only hit humanoids :( But the Expansion psionic power would work on a goliath psychic warrior... And it would stack with the Montain Rage goliath racial substitution... Only two class levels and a +1 LA, and you're Huge, buddy!
Ace_of_time 09-11-07, 11:19 AM	Does that spell/power make you huge? Because Goliath IS med and is counted as large for the plus of being large but not the minuses. If the spell/ power just increases one size up then he would be large using huge weapon with no penalty.
JulesCARV 09-11-07, 11:22 AM	I think anthropomorphic baleen whale is large and has LA +0, but it 1) has three racial hit dice, 2) is hideously broken regardless, and 3) is from Savage Species.
YabaTheWhat 09-11-07, 11:52 AM	3) is from Savage Species. The biggest problem with Savage Species is that it was written by three different authors, each of whom worked on his/her own section without any regard for (and possibly without any knowledge of) each other's contributions. The level adjustment approximator in the early part of the book may have been oversimplified, but it provided a good concept, and was better than anything else existing at the time. Material found later in the book, such as the anthro animals, was created without any consideration towards balance.
Orchomenos 09-11-07, 02:50 PM	Does that spell/power make you huge? Because Goliath IS med and is counted as large for the plus of being large but not the minuses. If the spell/ power just increases one size up then he would be large using huge weapon with no penalty. The basic Expansion (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/psionicPowersDtoF.html#expansion)power make you one size larger. Though if you spend 6 more power points (thus, if you are at leats 7th level), you can be two sizes larger instead. The real trick here is the Goliath Barbarian Substition Level. When you rage, you can become really Large (instead of Powerful Build). Since Expansion makes you one size larger, a raging goliath barbarian/psychic warrior would then become Huge. And if he's an higher level psychic warrior, he might become Gargantuan.