LeShay Racial Progressing [Archive] - Wizards Community

LeShay Racial Progressing [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
gwiber
05-14-07, 06:55 AM I realize this is ludicrous sounding, due to the high level CR and powers of the LeShay [3.0 Epic Handbook]. But when you combine it with Savage Species, in theory it can become a player character without unduly over-balancing the group.

So I find myself in a situation where a 7th Level Human Warmage has gotten a hold of herself a special crystal, which when held, releases the essence of a LeShay soul into the person who holds the crystal., The essence then begins the process of changing the physical body to match the original Essence form. The initial change is purely physical adding the LeShay Immortality , and Elven Traits to the host shell form. The rest of the form must be "grown into". So to speak.

This is why the question about LeShay level progression. The essence is content to take a back seat role ion the situation. Just happy to be in a body and relatively alive again. Thus the host is left to it's own devices, and why the Host isn't just pushed out by the magic.

I need to get some kind of level progression advice for the player in question. who may or may not choose to progress the racial abilities of the LeShay in this game (being effectively immortal. the player could play the whole campaign without changing the racial progression level if she chose).

So being as the typical LeShay is 50HD and no telling what Level Adj. at this point. Reading the Savage Species, this would lead one to expect a 50+ level progression table for the LeShay race. Is that just TOO MUCH? Should I cap it at 20, and spread the progression along those 20 levels? Even if the LeShay have 50+ HD each. they are still only (...only.. ) a CR of 28.

The following is the basics of the LeShay needed by the Savage Species book ot produce a level progression table [I've made the 3.5 updates and errata changes to the LeShay here also]

So any advice or even your own progression table ideas would be much appreciated.

Name : LeShay
Type : Medium Sized Fey
HD : 50
Adj :
ECL : 50
Str : +10
Dex : +34
Con : +26
Int : +22
Wis : +12
Cha : +36

BAB : +38

Fort. : +16
Ref. : +27
Will : +29

Nat Armor : +5

Skill Points :
Feats : Blinding Speed, Polygot, Spell Stowaway (Heal)

Special Qualities
Superior Two-Weapon Fighting [LeShay Weapons]
DR 15/+1
Elf Traits
Immune to Poison and Disease
Low-Light Vision
SR42
Fast Healing 10

Spell-like Abilities
[At Will]
Detect Thoughts
Disguise Self
Displacement
Freedom
Greater Dispelling
Heal
Improved Invisibility
Knock
Speak with Plants
Spell Turning
Teleport Without Error
Water Breathing

Other
LeShay Weapons
Gaze
Witch
05-14-07, 07:11 AM So being as the typical LeShay is 50HD and no telling what Level Adj. at this point. Reading the Savage Species, this would lead one to expect a 50+ level progression table for the LeShay race. Is that just TOO MUCH? Should I cap it at 20, and spread the progression along those 20 levels? Even if the LeShay have 50+ HD each. they are still only (...only.. ) a CR of 28.
Leshay are at least ECL 50. If not more. Their CR assumes you don't give them PC wealth, which PC Leshays... do get.
runestar
05-14-07, 07:24 AM I think the ELH errata pegged them at ECL50.:)
I would argue that it is too weak for a lv50 PC though. Heck, I think a fighter50 would outfight it...
Witch
05-14-07, 07:32 AM That's because you're picturing them without the 33 million gold they get.

Leshay get +10 Str, +34 Dex, +26 Con, +22 Int, +12 Wis, +36 Cha.
They get two free +10 keen brilliant energy bastard swords.
They get Superior Two-Weapon Fighting.
They get these SLAs at will: detect thoughts, disguise self, displacement, freedom, greater dispel magic, heal, greater invisibility, knock, speak with plants, spell turning, greater teleport, water breathing.
Admittedly, they have a BAB that is 10 points lower than the Fighter's, but this is offset by their increased Dex.
They get more skill points than the fighter.
They get difficult to beat DR, fast healing and some other cute abilities.
They get a charming gaze.

They're vastly superior to a level 50 fighter, if you add similar gear to them. I'd even put at least a +5 to a +10 level adjustment on them.
hawkinsthedm
06-13-07, 07:16 PM For purposes of simplicity, I have turned the leShay into an epic inherited template for elves, kind of like the Paragon:

LESHAY (TEMPLATE)
CREATING A LESHAY
“LeShay” is an inherited template that can be added to any elf (referred to hereafter as the base creature).
A leShay uses all the base creature’s statistics and special abilities except as noted here.
Size and Type: The creature’s type changes to fey. Do not recalculate the creature’s Hit Dice, base attack bonus, or saves. Size is unchanged.
Speed: A leShay gains a +10 ft enhancement bonus to speed.
Armor Class: A leShay gains a +20 insight bonus to AC. They also gain a +5 natural armor bonus (if the base creature already has natural armor, use whichever is better)
Special Attacks: A leShay retains all the special attacks of the base creature and also gains the following special abilities.
LeShay Weapons (Su): Each leShay carries two personal melee weapons that he or she manifests from his or her own life essence. The weapon can change form as he or she shifts from class to class, typically appearing as a bastard sword (one in each hand). When not in combat, the weapons simply do not exist, but leShay can “draw” their weapons from nowhere as a free action. LeShay weapons are considered light weapons for a leShay, regardless of their size. LeShay weapons are +10 keen brilliant energy weapons.
Gaze (Su): All creatures within 30 feet who meet the gaze of a leShay become affected as if by charm monster. A Will save (DC 15 + 1/2 the leShay’s HD + the leShay’s Charisma modifier) negates the effect. Each opponent within range of a gaze attack must attempt a saving throw each round at the beginning of his or her turn in the initiative order. A leShay can also actively gaze as an attack action by choosing a target within range, who must then attempt a saving throw. LeShay are immune to their own gaze. The DC is Charisma-based.
Spell-Like Abilities: At will—alter self, detect thoughts, displacement, freedom, greater dispelling, heal, greater invisibility, knock, speak with plants, spell turning, greater teleport, water breathing. Caster level 28th; save DC 28 + spell level. The DCs are Charisma-based.
Special Qualities: A leShay has all the special qualities of the base creature, plus the following special qualities.
— Superior Two-Weapon Fighting: A leShay fights with a leShay weapon in each hand. Because these weapons are extensions of its own body, the leShay does not take an attack or Damage penalty for attacking with two weapons.
— Damage Reduction: 15/epic and cold iron. If the creature already possesses Damage reduction, use whichever is better.
— Immunity to poison and disease.
— Low-light vision.
— Spell resistance equal to the paragon creature’s CR +25. If the creature already possesses spell resistance, use whichever is higher. (I couldn't find a good formula for figuring why a leShay's given SR is 42, so I used the SR from the Paragon Template).
— Fast healing 10. If the creature already possesses fast healing, use whichever is better.
— A leShay’s natural weapons are treated as epic for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.
Saves: Same as base creature.
Abilities: Increase from the base creature as follows: Str +10, Dex +34, Con +26, Int +22, Wis +12, Cha +36.
Skills: Same as base creature.
Feats: Same as base creature, plus Polygot.
Challenge Rating: As base creature +15. (CR for a 50 HD fey is 13, CR 28 - 13 = 15)
Alignment: Same as base creature.
Advancement: Same as base creature.
Level Adjustment: As base creature +17.

Tell me what you think!

--Hawkins
The_Shaman
06-14-07, 06:27 AM If you would make it a template, make sure not just anyone could apply - they should have at least 10-15 levels to even think of becoming such a fey avatar.
BelRex
06-14-07, 09:36 AM I've been messing around with them, and replacing their swords for other abilities. If you think about it, their swords are close to what a soulknife gets at level 25(It's been a while). So replace their swords, and give them the abilities of a class of half their HD. That would create a vastly different group of leshay.
hawkinsthedm
06-14-07, 11:58 AM If you would make it a template, make sure not just anyone could apply - they should have at least 10-15 levels to even think of becoming such a fey avatar.

I don't agree, beyond types and subtypes, there aren't supposed to be any prereqs for a template. If I had wanted to do that, I would have made it a Prestige Class. As one of my friends have shown me by playing a Paragon rogue, while the massive bonuses you get are cool, you are not necessarily better than anyone who has taken an equal number of class levels. Also, this way you can have a variety of leShay, like there probably was in their multiverse.

--Hawkins

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
gwiber 05-14-07, 06:55 AM	I realize this is ludicrous sounding, due to the high level CR and powers of the LeShay [3.0 Epic Handbook]. But when you combine it with Savage Species, in theory it can become a player character without unduly over-balancing the group. So I find myself in a situation where a 7th Level Human Warmage has gotten a hold of herself a special crystal, which when held, releases the essence of a LeShay soul into the person who holds the crystal., The essence then begins the process of changing the physical body to match the original Essence form. The initial change is purely physical adding the LeShay Immortality , and Elven Traits to the host shell form. The rest of the form must be "grown into". So to speak. This is why the question about LeShay level progression. The essence is content to take a back seat role ion the situation. Just happy to be in a body and relatively alive again. Thus the host is left to it's own devices, and why the Host isn't just pushed out by the magic. I need to get some kind of level progression advice for the player in question. who may or may not choose to progress the racial abilities of the LeShay in this game (being effectively immortal. the player could play the whole campaign without changing the racial progression level if she chose). So being as the typical LeShay is 50HD and no telling what Level Adj. at this point. Reading the Savage Species, this would lead one to expect a 50+ level progression table for the LeShay race. Is that just TOO MUCH? Should I cap it at 20, and spread the progression along those 20 levels? Even if the LeShay have 50+ HD each. they are still only (...only.. ) a CR of 28. The following is the basics of the LeShay needed by the Savage Species book ot produce a level progression table [I've made the 3.5 updates and errata changes to the LeShay here also] So any advice or even your own progression table ideas would be much appreciated. Name : LeShay Type : Medium Sized Fey HD : 50 Adj : ECL : 50 Str : +10 Dex : +34 Con : +26 Int : +22 Wis : +12 Cha : +36 BAB : +38 Fort. : +16 Ref. : +27 Will : +29 Nat Armor : +5 Skill Points : Feats : Blinding Speed, Polygot, Spell Stowaway (Heal) Special Qualities Superior Two-Weapon Fighting [LeShay Weapons] DR 15/+1 Elf Traits Immune to Poison and Disease Low-Light Vision SR42 Fast Healing 10 Spell-like Abilities [At Will] Detect Thoughts Disguise Self Displacement Freedom Greater Dispelling Heal Improved Invisibility Knock Speak with Plants Spell Turning Teleport Without Error Water Breathing Other LeShay Weapons Gaze
Witch 05-14-07, 07:11 AM	So being as the typical LeShay is 50HD and no telling what Level Adj. at this point. Reading the Savage Species, this would lead one to expect a 50+ level progression table for the LeShay race. Is that just TOO MUCH? Should I cap it at 20, and spread the progression along those 20 levels? Even if the LeShay have 50+ HD each. they are still only (...only.. ) a CR of 28. Leshay are at least ECL 50. If not more. Their CR assumes you don't give them PC wealth, which PC Leshays... do get.
runestar 05-14-07, 07:24 AM	I think the ELH errata pegged them at ECL50.:) I would argue that it is too weak for a lv50 PC though. Heck, I think a fighter50 would outfight it...
Witch 05-14-07, 07:32 AM	That's because you're picturing them without the 33 million gold they get. Leshay get +10 Str, +34 Dex, +26 Con, +22 Int, +12 Wis, +36 Cha. They get two free +10 keen brilliant energy bastard swords. They get Superior Two-Weapon Fighting. They get these SLAs at will: detect thoughts, disguise self, displacement, freedom, greater dispel magic, heal, greater invisibility, knock, speak with plants, spell turning, greater teleport, water breathing. Admittedly, they have a BAB that is 10 points lower than the Fighter's, but this is offset by their increased Dex. They get more skill points than the fighter. They get difficult to beat DR, fast healing and some other cute abilities. They get a charming gaze. They're vastly superior to a level 50 fighter, if you add similar gear to them. I'd even put at least a +5 to a +10 level adjustment on them.
hawkinsthedm 06-13-07, 07:16 PM	For purposes of simplicity, I have turned the leShay into an epic inherited template for elves, kind of like the Paragon: LESHAY (TEMPLATE) CREATING A LESHAY “LeShay” is an inherited template that can be added to any elf (referred to hereafter as the base creature). A leShay uses all the base creature’s statistics and special abilities except as noted here. Size and Type: The creature’s type changes to fey. Do not recalculate the creature’s Hit Dice, base attack bonus, or saves. Size is unchanged. Speed: A leShay gains a +10 ft enhancement bonus to speed. Armor Class: A leShay gains a +20 insight bonus to AC. They also gain a +5 natural armor bonus (if the base creature already has natural armor, use whichever is better) Special Attacks: A leShay retains all the special attacks of the base creature and also gains the following special abilities. LeShay Weapons (Su): Each leShay carries two personal melee weapons that he or she manifests from his or her own life essence. The weapon can change form as he or she shifts from class to class, typically appearing as a bastard sword (one in each hand). When not in combat, the weapons simply do not exist, but leShay can “draw” their weapons from nowhere as a free action. LeShay weapons are considered light weapons for a leShay, regardless of their size. LeShay weapons are +10 keen brilliant energy weapons. Gaze (Su): All creatures within 30 feet who meet the gaze of a leShay become affected as if by charm monster. A Will save (DC 15 + 1/2 the leShay’s HD + the leShay’s Charisma modifier) negates the effect. Each opponent within range of a gaze attack must attempt a saving throw each round at the beginning of his or her turn in the initiative order. A leShay can also actively gaze as an attack action by choosing a target within range, who must then attempt a saving throw. LeShay are immune to their own gaze. The DC is Charisma-based. Spell-Like Abilities: At will—alter self, detect thoughts, displacement, freedom, greater dispelling, heal, greater invisibility, knock, speak with plants, spell turning, greater teleport, water breathing. Caster level 28th; save DC 28 + spell level. The DCs are Charisma-based. Special Qualities: A leShay has all the special qualities of the base creature, plus the following special qualities. — Superior Two-Weapon Fighting: A leShay fights with a leShay weapon in each hand. Because these weapons are extensions of its own body, the leShay does not take an attack or Damage penalty for attacking with two weapons. — Damage Reduction: 15/epic and cold iron. If the creature already possesses Damage reduction, use whichever is better. — Immunity to poison and disease. — Low-light vision. — Spell resistance equal to the paragon creature’s CR +25. If the creature already possesses spell resistance, use whichever is higher. (I couldn't find a good formula for figuring why a leShay's given SR is 42, so I used the SR from the Paragon Template). — Fast healing 10. If the creature already possesses fast healing, use whichever is better. — A leShay’s natural weapons are treated as epic for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. Saves: Same as base creature. Abilities: Increase from the base creature as follows: Str +10, Dex +34, Con +26, Int +22, Wis +12, Cha +36. Skills: Same as base creature. Feats: Same as base creature, plus Polygot. Challenge Rating: As base creature +15. (CR for a 50 HD fey is 13, CR 28 - 13 = 15) Alignment: Same as base creature. Advancement: Same as base creature. Level Adjustment: As base creature +17. Tell me what you think! --Hawkins
The_Shaman 06-14-07, 06:27 AM	If you would make it a template, make sure not just anyone could apply - they should have at least 10-15 levels to even think of becoming such a fey avatar.
BelRex 06-14-07, 09:36 AM	I've been messing around with them, and replacing their swords for other abilities. If you think about it, their swords are close to what a soulknife gets at level 25(It's been a while). So replace their swords, and give them the abilities of a class of half their HD. That would create a vastly different group of leshay.
hawkinsthedm 06-14-07, 11:58 AM	If you would make it a template, make sure not just anyone could apply - they should have at least 10-15 levels to even think of becoming such a fey avatar. I don't agree, beyond types and subtypes, there aren't supposed to be any prereqs for a template. If I had wanted to do that, I would have made it a Prestige Class. As one of my friends have shown me by playing a Paragon rogue, while the massive bonuses you get are cool, you are not necessarily better than anyone who has taken an equal number of class levels. Also, this way you can have a variety of leShay, like there probably was in their multiverse. --Hawkins