Lesser Aasimar question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Lesser Aasimar question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
danzibr
03-02-07, 11:08 PM Where can I find this template?

As in... what book? I am looking to buy a couple books.

Also, is there such a thing as lesser Tiefling?

Lastly, can somebody direct me to the rebalanced Tiefling? I remember seeing it somewhere... without the cha penalty, I think. Actually, it would be neat if there was a rebalanced compendium.

Dan
runestar
03-03-07, 12:13 AM It is in PGTF. Basically, lesser planetouched are humanoids, in exchange for having their LA revised to 0.
pukunui
03-03-07, 02:03 AM PGTF being the Player's Guide to Faerun, a Forgotten Realms supplement.

You can have a "lesser" version of any planetouched creature, not just aasimar. All you have to do is change their type from "outsider (native)" to "humanoid (planetouched)". Apparently making them susceptible to charm person and taking away their racial proficiency with all martial weapons is enough to reduce the LA to 0.
Perun
03-03-07, 02:13 AM You can have a "lesser" version of any planetouched creature, not just aasimar. All you have to do is change their type from "outsider (native)" to "humanoid (planetouched)". Apparently making them susceptible to charm person and taking away their racial proficiency with all martial weapons is enough to reduce the LA to 0.

I always viewed it as having a hidden benefit -- the ability to assume Outsider forms with spells like alter self and, especially, polymorph.

Regards.
pukunui
03-03-07, 02:21 AM I always viewed it as having a hidden benefit -- the ability to assume Outsider forms with spells like alter self and, especially, polymorph.
I suppose ... but how is a lesser aasimar with +2 Wis, +2 Cha still balanced at LA 0?

It says right in the DMG that an ability score bonus should be accompanied with at least one ability score penalty in order for the race to be balanced at LA 0.
Chimaera2000
03-03-07, 02:23 AM I suppose ... but how is a lesser aasimar with +2 Wis, +2 Cha still balanced at LA 0?

It isn't.

Seriously, a race like this is automatically the best race for sorcerers, bards, paladins, clerics, and druids. Not even humans can compete.
runestar
03-03-07, 02:34 AM Note that this variant was specifically designed with the various LA+1 planetouched in mind. An important distinction since races of faerun introduced new planetouched like the fey'ri(LA+2 or +3) and the tannaruk(5 outsider HD, LA+3).:)

Apparently making them susceptible to charm person and taking away their racial proficiency with all martial weapons is enough to reduce the LA to 0.
Another reason is that they are considered underpowered for their LA+1, more like LA+0.5. Taking away these misc abilities should just be enough to push them into the upper boundaries of the LA+0 threshold.
Perun
03-03-07, 09:06 AM I suppose ... but how is a lesser aasimar with +2 Wis, +2 Cha still balanced at LA 0?

It says right in the DMG that an ability score bonus should be accompanied with at least one ability score penalty in order for the race to be balanced at LA 0.

Looked in my 2e Planewalker's Handbook. Aasimar back then had +1 Strength, +1 Wisdom, -2 Constitution (a variant with +1 Wis, +1 Cha, -2 Con is also mentioned -- looks like they based the 3e aasimar on that one).

Translated to 3e, that would be +2 Str, +2 Wis, -4 Con, which isn't very attractive (the Con penalty would be too big).

I'd suggest +2 Str, -2 Con as a house rule. It's an odd combination, but they have enough other benefits to remain attractive for a LA +0 race.

For those interested, 2e tieflings got +1 Int, +1 Cha, -1 Str, -1 Wis.

Regards.
danzibr
03-03-07, 11:38 AM So a Lesser Tiefling Catfolk would have +6 to Dex (and +2 to Int and +2 to hide checks) and a LA of +0? That's ridiculous.

I went to SRD to check out Tiefling and Aasimar and I didn't see that they had racial proficiency with all martial weapons. Do they lose their racial skills or something? Also, is PGtF worth it?

Dan
AZNsupermarket
03-03-07, 12:11 PM So a Lesser Tiefling Catfolk would have +6 to Dex (and +2 to Int and +2 to hide checks) and a LA of +0? That's ridiculous.
tiefling isn't a template
I went to SRD to check out Tiefling and Aasimar and I didn't see that they had racial proficiency with all martial weapons. Do they lose their racial skills or something?
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ask/20060731a
Perun
03-03-07, 12:28 PM So a Lesser Tiefling Catfolk would have +6 to Dex (and +2 to Int and +2 to hide checks) and a LA of +0? That's ridiculous.

Yes, it is. Especially since you can't have "lesser tiefling catfolk" (unless you house-rule it). Tiefling and aasimar are not templates, they're humans who have had an outsider somewhere in their ancestry.

There are some other non-human/outsider crossbreed-descendants, like maeluth (dwarf/devil) or wispling (halfling/demon) (both from Fiend Folio), or azerblood (shield dwarf/azer), celadrin (elven worshippers of Hanali Celanil/eladrin (firre, most commonnly), d'hin'ni (halfling/djinni) and worghest (goblin/barghest) (all originally from FR, described in Dragon 350).

But you can't combine planetouched with another race so as to get a planetouched catfolk, for example. It's not how it works.

I went to SRD to check out Tiefling and Aasimar and I didn't see that they had racial proficiency with all martial weapons. Do they lose their racial skills or something?

They never had their theoretical martial weapon proficiencies explicitly mentioned, but they're outsiders, and if you look at the outsider type description (SRD version here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#outsiderType)), it says outsiders are proficient with all Simple and Martial weapons.

But, like I said, since it's not mentioned in their racial write-ups, they don't get it IMC.

Also, is PGtF worth it?

If you're playing in FR, I'd call it a must (it updated a large chunk of FR 3.0 material to 3.5, and completely revises the regions system). Otherwise, there's really not much stuff in there for those not using FR (just IMO, of course).

Regards.
danzibr
03-03-07, 12:31 PM Ahhhhhhh... I feel enlightened. Thanks a lot. And Perun, when I read the, "Yes, it is." I laughed. In a good way, of course. Still, thanks to everyone for clearing this up. I was starting to have ideas of a Lesser Aasimar Spellscale Sorcerer.

Dan

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
danzibr 03-02-07, 11:08 PM	Where can I find this template? As in... what book? I am looking to buy a couple books. Also, is there such a thing as lesser Tiefling? Lastly, can somebody direct me to the rebalanced Tiefling? I remember seeing it somewhere... without the cha penalty, I think. Actually, it would be neat if there was a rebalanced compendium. Dan
runestar 03-03-07, 12:13 AM	It is in PGTF. Basically, lesser planetouched are humanoids, in exchange for having their LA revised to 0.
pukunui 03-03-07, 02:03 AM	PGTF being the Player's Guide to Faerun, a Forgotten Realms supplement. You can have a "lesser" version of any planetouched creature, not just aasimar. All you have to do is change their type from "outsider (native)" to "humanoid (planetouched)". Apparently making them susceptible to charm person and taking away their racial proficiency with all martial weapons is enough to reduce the LA to 0.
Perun 03-03-07, 02:13 AM	You can have a "lesser" version of any planetouched creature, not just aasimar. All you have to do is change their type from "outsider (native)" to "humanoid (planetouched)". Apparently making them susceptible to charm person and taking away their racial proficiency with all martial weapons is enough to reduce the LA to 0. I always viewed it as having a hidden benefit -- the ability to assume Outsider forms with spells like alter self and, especially, polymorph. Regards.
pukunui 03-03-07, 02:21 AM	I always viewed it as having a hidden benefit -- the ability to assume Outsider forms with spells like alter self and, especially, polymorph. I suppose ... but how is a lesser aasimar with +2 Wis, +2 Cha still balanced at LA 0? It says right in the DMG that an ability score bonus should be accompanied with at least one ability score penalty in order for the race to be balanced at LA 0.
Chimaera2000 03-03-07, 02:23 AM	I suppose ... but how is a lesser aasimar with +2 Wis, +2 Cha still balanced at LA 0? It isn't. Seriously, a race like this is automatically the best race for sorcerers, bards, paladins, clerics, and druids. Not even humans can compete.
runestar 03-03-07, 02:34 AM	Note that this variant was specifically designed with the various LA+1 planetouched in mind. An important distinction since races of faerun introduced new planetouched like the fey'ri(LA+2 or +3) and the tannaruk(5 outsider HD, LA+3).:) Apparently making them susceptible to charm person and taking away their racial proficiency with all martial weapons is enough to reduce the LA to 0. Another reason is that they are considered underpowered for their LA+1, more like LA+0.5. Taking away these misc abilities should just be enough to push them into the upper boundaries of the LA+0 threshold.
Perun 03-03-07, 09:06 AM	I suppose ... but how is a lesser aasimar with +2 Wis, +2 Cha still balanced at LA 0? It says right in the DMG that an ability score bonus should be accompanied with at least one ability score penalty in order for the race to be balanced at LA 0. Looked in my 2e Planewalker's Handbook. Aasimar back then had +1 Strength, +1 Wisdom, -2 Constitution (a variant with +1 Wis, +1 Cha, -2 Con is also mentioned -- looks like they based the 3e aasimar on that one). Translated to 3e, that would be +2 Str, +2 Wis, -4 Con, which isn't very attractive (the Con penalty would be too big). I'd suggest +2 Str, -2 Con as a house rule. It's an odd combination, but they have enough other benefits to remain attractive for a LA +0 race. For those interested, 2e tieflings got +1 Int, +1 Cha, -1 Str, -1 Wis. Regards.
danzibr 03-03-07, 11:38 AM	So a Lesser Tiefling Catfolk would have +6 to Dex (and +2 to Int and +2 to hide checks) and a LA of +0? That's ridiculous. I went to SRD to check out Tiefling and Aasimar and I didn't see that they had racial proficiency with all martial weapons. Do they lose their racial skills or something? Also, is PGtF worth it? Dan
AZNsupermarket 03-03-07, 12:11 PM	So a Lesser Tiefling Catfolk would have +6 to Dex (and +2 to Int and +2 to hide checks) and a LA of +0? That's ridiculous. tiefling isn't a template I went to SRD to check out Tiefling and Aasimar and I didn't see that they had racial proficiency with all martial weapons. Do they lose their racial skills or something? http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ask/20060731a
Perun 03-03-07, 12:28 PM	So a Lesser Tiefling Catfolk would have +6 to Dex (and +2 to Int and +2 to hide checks) and a LA of +0? That's ridiculous. Yes, it is. Especially since you can't have "lesser tiefling catfolk" (unless you house-rule it). Tiefling and aasimar are not templates, they're humans who have had an outsider somewhere in their ancestry. There are some other non-human/outsider crossbreed-descendants, like maeluth (dwarf/devil) or wispling (halfling/demon) (both from Fiend Folio), or azerblood (shield dwarf/azer), celadrin (elven worshippers of Hanali Celanil/eladrin (firre, most commonnly), d'hin'ni (halfling/djinni) and worghest (goblin/barghest) (all originally from FR, described in Dragon 350). But you can't combine planetouched with another race so as to get a planetouched catfolk, for example. It's not how it works. I went to SRD to check out Tiefling and Aasimar and I didn't see that they had racial proficiency with all martial weapons. Do they lose their racial skills or something? They never had their theoretical martial weapon proficiencies explicitly mentioned, but they're outsiders, and if you look at the outsider type description (SRD version here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#outsiderType)), it says outsiders are proficient with all Simple and Martial weapons. But, like I said, since it's not mentioned in their racial write-ups, they don't get it IMC. Also, is PGtF worth it? If you're playing in FR, I'd call it a must (it updated a large chunk of FR 3.0 material to 3.5, and completely revises the regions system). Otherwise, there's really not much stuff in there for those not using FR (just IMO, of course). Regards.
danzibr 03-03-07, 12:31 PM	Ahhhhhhh... I feel enlightened. Thanks a lot. And Perun, when I read the, "Yes, it is." I laughed. In a good way, of course. Still, thanks to everyone for clearing this up. I was starting to have ideas of a Lesser Aasimar Spellscale Sorcerer. Dan