Lesser Teifling [Archive] - Wizards Community

Lesser Teifling [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
zedorland
12-12-07, 10:09 PM I am looking at starting a campaign in the forgotten realms, and i wanted to play a teifling wizard. i read about the lesser variety, and wish to use that variant to avoid the serious penalty of the level adjustment.

The page 191 of The players guide to Faerun says the teifling is instead a planetouched subtype, but that is the ony alteration it makes. is that the extent of change that is required to remove the level adjustment, or am i missing something?

thanks in advance
Zedorland
zook1shoe666
12-12-07, 10:28 PM hence why the "Lesser Planetouched" are UBER, the Aasimar being the most.
seker
12-13-07, 03:29 AM Yes it is the only change needed... but do not underestimate that change... basically you have all the penalties of being a humanoid and a outsider...

for instance:
a cleric casting holy smite and spells like it on you, would do 1d6/level damage to you instead of 1d8/2 levels.
you show as the higher aura type for alignment detecting spells like detect evil (so evil tieflings beware of pally's even if you are not actively evil, you show as being as evil as a cleric of an evil deity...)
etc...

plus you can still be charmed with charm person and the like.
Bahumut
12-13-07, 05:49 AM i second what seker said, do not underestimate what the Humanoid (Planetouched) type does to you. i am playing a lesser aasimar in one of my games, and since i am NG i count as a good outsider for spells and abilities. there are some VERY mean spells that specifically target good/evil outsiders. remember, protection from good/evil, magic circle against good/evil, holy/unholy water, etc.

one thing that was never fully explained: if they got banished, where would they go? or would they go anywhere?
seker
12-13-07, 06:15 AM I found that odd myself, as the inclusion of that spell as effecting them (specifically banishment) is at odds with the spell description as they would not be extraplanar on the prime material plane normally. However since the subtype specifically states they are effected by the spell, it would most likely send them to whatever the plane of their anscestor was. (i.e. the abyss, baator, etc.. at the DM's choice if it was not previously decided.)
zook1shoe666
12-13-07, 09:16 AM i was thinking that the +4 ability mods for the Aasimar overrides those penalties.
Kadasbrass
12-13-07, 10:17 AM The penalties of outsider will rarely come into play, making the attempt to balance the lesser planetouched a flat out failure. DM most likely will forget over time your effected like a outsider. Most monsters don't don't have much in the way outsider effecting abilities or spells. In most cases if the DM is going to take advantage of the "As a outsider" part, their doing it out of pure spite and they intended for you to fail no matter what (such as making sure your Banished).
celestialkin
12-13-07, 12:48 PM I found that odd myself, as the inclusion of that spell as effecting them (specifically banishment) is at odds with the spell description as they would not be extraplanar on the prime material plane normally. However since the subtype specifically states they are effected by the spell, it would most likely send them to whatever the plane of their anscestor was. (i.e. the abyss, baator, etc.. at the DM's choice if it was not previously decided.)

Odd question, but couldn't you use that for your advantage? Lets say your party is getting total party killed, so you pull out your emergency scroll of banishment and say "See you guys later!".
1 ton ghost
12-13-07, 12:51 PM good call on many points all of you.
lesser tiefling wizards are terribly popular for so many reasons:
-Int buff, self-explanatory. Dex buff is choice, especially for rays, amping RFLX, and AC which should be paramount at d4. Int/Dex, always a good decision
-24 hr Darkvision is so damn nice (saves you 12K gp vs. goggles, free slot), is basically a free 2nd lvl spell slot, doesn't betray your position, enables more attacks vs. blind and/or flat-footed ppl. choice, specially for casters w/ anything in their repetoir of 60ft, and at that range, Move Silent and Hide are still respectable given range penalites even if you have no ranks (Dex buff too)
-Darkness, another free spell slot. more than once it has saved a low HD player from certain death in that it affords constant Hide checks, prevents Sneak Attacks, etc.
-the resistances and skill bonuses are very important

RACIAL HANDICAP-yes, being both Outsider and Humanoid can suck bad. that's assuming your enemy knows this...
-today's word is "Disguise". you get a skill bonus, use it. w/ those free slots, use a Disguise Self or get the Hat if you will (cheap, always handy). if you look human, you'll be targeted thusly. not to mention racial prejudices. i mean, c'mon, horns, stink of brimstone, etc. push for the Bluff synergy too to augment Disguise, Diplo, etc. given high Int, extra ranks aren't too problematic as magi.
-other times, it pays to look evil. nasty monsters w/ reasonable Int might hold back out of fear, not respect. might count as circumstance bonus on Intimidate, Diplomacy in some cases, even Bluff. when in Rome, etc. etc.
-even if you are targeted w/ Outsiderish magics, many call for Will saves, your strong suit as a caster, so don't panic yet. familiar might help your Save too, not to mention any running Abjurations, and you basically have 2 free 2nd lvl slots...same lvl as Prot. vs.____, etc. everything is relative.
-Banishment...? that's weird, where do they go? someone said since they're both race types; Native Outsider & Humanoid, you just get 'ported randomly to somewhere in the Prime Material, probably home world...just possibly thousands of miles. going from Jersey to Japan sucks, beats Hell though...
seker
12-13-07, 02:37 PM only problem with banishment is that it would send you to another plane... and in a tiefling's case it would be the fiendish plane you have the essence of... (after all it is the essence of the other plane in your bloodline that makes you planetouched and grants your powers.) and both banishment and dismisal are specific as it forces the target out of the current plane and to their "home" plane. (Which normally would not be able to target native outsiders, but as the actual planetouched subtype mentions they are effected by that spell...)

So I am sorry if given a choice of fighting and maybe dying, and going to the abyss or baator.... it would have to be a really really bad situation for me to use that scroll to send myself out of the plane...

Now for an aasimar it would not be so bad.
vegetalss4
12-13-07, 03:39 PM So I am sorry if given a choice of fighting and maybe dying, and going to the abyss or baator.... it would have to be a really really bad situation for me to use that scroll to send myself out of the plane...

exept of course if your lawfull or chaotic evil. then if you die, you end up in the abyss/baator anyway;)
seker
12-13-07, 03:58 PM exept of course if your lawfull or chaotic evil. then if you die, you end up in the abyss/baator anyway;)

Lol... yeah but still a "chance" of not dying and going to the hells... is better than sending yourself there on purpose.
celestialkin
12-13-07, 04:12 PM Lol... yeah but still a "chance" of not dying and going to the hells... is better than sending yourself there on purpose.

True, but at least you would still be able to fight back and maybe get out of there again.

Who knows, maybe you could call up grandpa for a favor?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
zedorland 12-12-07, 10:09 PM	I am looking at starting a campaign in the forgotten realms, and i wanted to play a teifling wizard. i read about the lesser variety, and wish to use that variant to avoid the serious penalty of the level adjustment. The page 191 of The players guide to Faerun says the teifling is instead a planetouched subtype, but that is the ony alteration it makes. is that the extent of change that is required to remove the level adjustment, or am i missing something? thanks in advance Zedorland
zook1shoe666 12-12-07, 10:28 PM	hence why the "Lesser Planetouched" are UBER, the Aasimar being the most.
seker 12-13-07, 03:29 AM	Yes it is the only change needed... but do not underestimate that change... basically you have all the penalties of being a humanoid and a outsider... for instance: a cleric casting holy smite and spells like it on you, would do 1d6/level damage to you instead of 1d8/2 levels. you show as the higher aura type for alignment detecting spells like detect evil (so evil tieflings beware of pally's even if you are not actively evil, you show as being as evil as a cleric of an evil deity...) etc... plus you can still be charmed with charm person and the like.
Bahumut 12-13-07, 05:49 AM	i second what seker said, do not underestimate what the Humanoid (Planetouched) type does to you. i am playing a lesser aasimar in one of my games, and since i am NG i count as a good outsider for spells and abilities. there are some VERY mean spells that specifically target good/evil outsiders. remember, protection from good/evil, magic circle against good/evil, holy/unholy water, etc. one thing that was never fully explained: if they got banished, where would they go? or would they go anywhere?
seker 12-13-07, 06:15 AM	I found that odd myself, as the inclusion of that spell as effecting them (specifically banishment) is at odds with the spell description as they would not be extraplanar on the prime material plane normally. However since the subtype specifically states they are effected by the spell, it would most likely send them to whatever the plane of their anscestor was. (i.e. the abyss, baator, etc.. at the DM's choice if it was not previously decided.)
zook1shoe666 12-13-07, 09:16 AM	i was thinking that the +4 ability mods for the Aasimar overrides those penalties.
Kadasbrass 12-13-07, 10:17 AM	The penalties of outsider will rarely come into play, making the attempt to balance the lesser planetouched a flat out failure. DM most likely will forget over time your effected like a outsider. Most monsters don't don't have much in the way outsider effecting abilities or spells. In most cases if the DM is going to take advantage of the "As a outsider" part, their doing it out of pure spite and they intended for you to fail no matter what (such as making sure your Banished).
celestialkin 12-13-07, 12:48 PM	I found that odd myself, as the inclusion of that spell as effecting them (specifically banishment) is at odds with the spell description as they would not be extraplanar on the prime material plane normally. However since the subtype specifically states they are effected by the spell, it would most likely send them to whatever the plane of their anscestor was. (i.e. the abyss, baator, etc.. at the DM's choice if it was not previously decided.) Odd question, but couldn't you use that for your advantage? Lets say your party is getting total party killed, so you pull out your emergency scroll of banishment and say "See you guys later!".
1 ton ghost 12-13-07, 12:51 PM	good call on many points all of you. lesser tiefling wizards are terribly popular for so many reasons: -Int buff, self-explanatory. Dex buff is choice, especially for rays, amping RFLX, and AC which should be paramount at d4. Int/Dex, always a good decision -24 hr Darkvision is so damn nice (saves you 12K gp vs. goggles, free slot), is basically a free 2nd lvl spell slot, doesn't betray your position, enables more attacks vs. blind and/or flat-footed ppl. choice, specially for casters w/ anything in their repetoir of 60ft, and at that range, Move Silent and Hide are still respectable given range penalites even if you have no ranks (Dex buff too) -Darkness, another free spell slot. more than once it has saved a low HD player from certain death in that it affords constant Hide checks, prevents Sneak Attacks, etc. -the resistances and skill bonuses are very important RACIAL HANDICAP-yes, being both Outsider and Humanoid can suck bad. that's assuming your enemy knows this... -today's word is "Disguise". you get a skill bonus, use it. w/ those free slots, use a Disguise Self or get the Hat if you will (cheap, always handy). if you look human, you'll be targeted thusly. not to mention racial prejudices. i mean, c'mon, horns, stink of brimstone, etc. push for the Bluff synergy too to augment Disguise, Diplo, etc. given high Int, extra ranks aren't too problematic as magi. -other times, it pays to look evil. nasty monsters w/ reasonable Int might hold back out of fear, not respect. might count as circumstance bonus on Intimidate, Diplomacy in some cases, even Bluff. when in Rome, etc. etc. -even if you are targeted w/ Outsiderish magics, many call for Will saves, your strong suit as a caster, so don't panic yet. familiar might help your Save too, not to mention any running Abjurations, and you basically have 2 free 2nd lvl slots...same lvl as Prot. vs.____, etc. everything is relative. -Banishment...? that's weird, where do they go? someone said since they're both race types; Native Outsider & Humanoid, you just get 'ported randomly to somewhere in the Prime Material, probably home world...just possibly thousands of miles. going from Jersey to Japan sucks, beats Hell though...
seker 12-13-07, 02:37 PM	only problem with banishment is that it would send you to another plane... and in a tiefling's case it would be the fiendish plane you have the essence of... (after all it is the essence of the other plane in your bloodline that makes you planetouched and grants your powers.) and both banishment and dismisal are specific as it forces the target out of the current plane and to their "home" plane. (Which normally would not be able to target native outsiders, but as the actual planetouched subtype mentions they are effected by that spell...) So I am sorry if given a choice of fighting and maybe dying, and going to the abyss or baator.... it would have to be a really really bad situation for me to use that scroll to send myself out of the plane... Now for an aasimar it would not be so bad.
vegetalss4 12-13-07, 03:39 PM	So I am sorry if given a choice of fighting and maybe dying, and going to the abyss or baator.... it would have to be a really really bad situation for me to use that scroll to send myself out of the plane... exept of course if your lawfull or chaotic evil. then if you die, you end up in the abyss/baator anyway;)
seker 12-13-07, 03:58 PM	exept of course if your lawfull or chaotic evil. then if you die, you end up in the abyss/baator anyway;) Lol... yeah but still a "chance" of not dying and going to the hells... is better than sending yourself there on purpose.
celestialkin 12-13-07, 04:12 PM	Lol... yeah but still a "chance" of not dying and going to the hells... is better than sending yourself there on purpose. True, but at least you would still be able to fight back and maybe get out of there again. Who knows, maybe you could call up grandpa for a favor?