Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ServanWolf 04-22-07, 01:48 PM	There is often said that you can acquire an template or have an template and how you have to addapt your creature for it, but there is never really said what happens when you wanna level up. For example, a cleric of Nerull of level 5...he is CR=5...but when he is slain by an vampire and become a vampire his CR = 7 (which simply menas that eh is tronger???), and his Level adjustment is +8...so his ECL is 13... But now the questions... normally the CR = ECL (= class level+ level adjustment) for treasure and experience calculating, but thats a paradox no? And what for the experience? he had first the experience of a level 5 and after that he is character level 13... does he got all the experience between? does he ahve to get all the experience till level 13? and why should he have to get more experience now to get a simple level up?
Thomar_of_Uointer 04-22-07, 03:10 PM	Oh, the fun one is that if two illithid sorcerers duke it out, they won't get experience for it because neither has a high enough challenge rating to count as a serious encounter. :D Challenge Rating and Effective Character Level measure two very different things. A creature's challenge rating measures its effect on the party as an encounter, a single head-to-head brawl which may be over in just a few rounds. A creature's effective character level measures its effect on the party as a character, four encounters and everything in-between in terms of skill, combat prowess, solving traps and puzzles, and so on. Now, normally we can say most characters using PC races have CR equal to their class levels. This is fine, because class levels are exactly what the party has too, and tend to be geared towards combat. Monsters tend to have odd abilities that class levels do not grant, and may have wildly varying impact on their role as an encounter and their role as a party member. Take, for example, cure minor wounds as a spell-like ability at will. A monster with this ability will hardly benefit from it. It needs to blow a standard action to heal a single hit point, possibly to stabilize a comrade who's about to get coup de graced anyways. On the other hand, a PC with this ability is a valuable asset to the party. Given enough time between fights, he can keep everyone in the party in top shape, and allow a cleric to operate more effectively in combat because he only has to act as a healer in emergencies. And that's why CR and ECL are so different. Does that make sense?
ServanWolf 04-23-07, 03:25 AM	thx but that first part was simply thoery question but what with that experience and the level advancement AFTER that he is for example changed in vampire? And there are also sometimes added templates without level adjustment but with challenge rating? what with them?
ServanWolf 04-23-07, 07:35 AM	anyone knowns the answer?
Captain_Kobold 04-23-07, 08:33 AM	Ah. You're asking if a PC gets hit with a template or something that increases his effective level, how do you handle the adjustment? Firstly, is the template something that the PC is going to keep? For instance if he gets turned into a Lycanthrope or a vampire under the control of another, they might be getting it removed before they go up a level. Is the specific case in question a Vampire? I believe in one of the Savage progessions on the website, they produced a level-by level application of the template that a PC could take as he levelled up instead of class levels. By the end of it, he would have the full abilities of the template. Your best bet is to do something similar: split the LA into individual levels and place special abilities and stat increases along the progression, with the bonuses getting higher, and the abilities usable more often until they get the full powers of the template at the end of it. If the template does not have a listed level adjustment (not even a LA +0), then it is not suitable for a PC, and the character might be dead, or now under the control of the DM as an NPC, or the template simply could not be applied to them. Its now up to the rest of the party to retrieve/ressurect their comrade.
ServanWolf 04-23-07, 10:13 AM	mhmhmh oke you can do it as race levels in vampire then , but you lust admit that it is not said at the vampire that anypone who became vampire under controle is no vampire anymore after that ... and i dont think that a vampire would wait so long before the person he controls become full power. Your idea is lot like getting vampire blood in your vains :) * awillign ritual maybe then :p* but what is the procedure if it is apllied directly, cause it must be possibly otherwise templates you can become are bit strange.. other example are the lich for that..
ServanWolf 04-23-07, 10:14 AM	And cna you me give a link to that savage thing??? *cause you diea loos lot like bloodlines*
Thomar_of_Uointer 04-23-07, 01:33 PM	The rules don't explain how acquired templates interact with experience points. I've seen DMs accidentally break their games because players decided to hang onto lycanthropy for the power boost. The painful way is to have the player not gain another level until he catches all the way up to his ECL. I'd just recommend not using monsters like lycanthropes at all. Vampires are a pointless case. They become evil, the LA is huge, and they are in the thrall of an NPC. This makes them unfit to be PCs. I'd tell a player whose character becomes a thrall to roll up a new character.
ServanWolf 04-23-07, 04:51 PM	thx, i also said him that i will maybe give him a bloodline otherwise we are all three*i play also* beginning players and DM ^^ so i love testing lot of things :)