Level Adjustment + Monster HD Question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Level Adjustment + Monster HD Question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
HawkTheOne-Handed
06-16-07, 01:24 AM Pardon if this question has been asked before (I can't find an appropriate link on this board). I am looking for the official information, i.e. Dungeon Master's Guide, on how to handle a creature with a LA + creature HD. Recently a fellow PC has been turned into a werewolf (inflicted). He has convinced the DM that his +2 LA includes the 2 hd he gets for the wolf form. We have always played that officially, a characters total level equals his class level(s) + LA + Bonus HD. This guy convinced the dm that this has always been wrong (he intends to keep his cursed state even though he keeps turning against the party (failed control shape skill check).

Lacking a DM's guide, I can't find the info I am looking for (even though I once knew where the ruling was). Have we always been playing it wrong? (Ogre barbarian PC started at 5th level because of the +2 la and 2 ogre hd.) Are lycanthropes a special case in which the bonus hd are included in the level adjustment? Please point me in the right direction.
koiulpoi
06-16-07, 02:46 AM The SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/monstersAsRaces.htm) has the information you're looking for.

If you're wondering, your friend is wrong. You have two hit dice AND a level adjustment.

Although, I think there's something different about afflicted lycanthropes. Can't think of it right now, though.
Antioch
06-16-07, 03:34 AM LA is always counted separately from HD.

On page 178 of the MM, it specifically states that your character level increases by the number of HD the animal possesses (in the case of a wolf, you would gain 2 character levels because you gained 2 HD). This is in addition to the LA you gain (+2 for afflicted, +3 for natural).

Therefore, an afflicted werewolf gains 2 animal HD (which increases your hit points, gives you more base saves, BAB, and skill points to spend on wolf-class skills, and may grant another feat) and a LA of +2.
SageBahamut
06-16-07, 03:40 AM By the raw, yes, you're stuck with the monstrous HD and the LA. Which means that you're probably going to die in about eight seconds fighting something "appropriate" for your adjusted level. Your DR will mean jack and you simply will never again have enough HP to matter. That's what LA does - it punishes you for being too good. I have had DMs that ruled, as you friend interpretted, that monster HD are part of what you get for your LA. This has the effect of you rarely being unfairly gimped in terms of HP and actually (and I have done with with weretigers, hound archons, and a couple of others things) I have never seen it create a truly unbalanced character.
HawkTheOne-Handed
06-16-07, 02:12 PM Thanks guys!
drade
06-16-07, 02:31 PM I know this sounds bad but I always count Monster HD as additional LA for PC, so werewolf would be say a LA +4.... It's easier for my players if they become one, but like I think someone already said it makes your monsterous PC a little weaker I think.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
HawkTheOne-Handed 06-16-07, 01:24 AM	Pardon if this question has been asked before (I can't find an appropriate link on this board). I am looking for the official information, i.e. Dungeon Master's Guide, on how to handle a creature with a LA + creature HD. Recently a fellow PC has been turned into a werewolf (inflicted). He has convinced the DM that his +2 LA includes the 2 hd he gets for the wolf form. We have always played that officially, a characters total level equals his class level(s) + LA + Bonus HD. This guy convinced the dm that this has always been wrong (he intends to keep his cursed state even though he keeps turning against the party (failed control shape skill check). Lacking a DM's guide, I can't find the info I am looking for (even though I once knew where the ruling was). Have we always been playing it wrong? (Ogre barbarian PC started at 5th level because of the +2 la and 2 ogre hd.) Are lycanthropes a special case in which the bonus hd are included in the level adjustment? Please point me in the right direction.
koiulpoi 06-16-07, 02:46 AM	The SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/monstersAsRaces.htm) has the information you're looking for. If you're wondering, your friend is wrong. You have two hit dice AND a level adjustment. Although, I think there's something different about afflicted lycanthropes. Can't think of it right now, though.
Antioch 06-16-07, 03:34 AM	LA is always counted separately from HD. On page 178 of the MM, it specifically states that your character level increases by the number of HD the animal possesses (in the case of a wolf, you would gain 2 character levels because you gained 2 HD). This is in addition to the LA you gain (+2 for afflicted, +3 for natural). Therefore, an afflicted werewolf gains 2 animal HD (which increases your hit points, gives you more base saves, BAB, and skill points to spend on wolf-class skills, and may grant another feat) and a LA of +2.
SageBahamut 06-16-07, 03:40 AM	By the raw, yes, you're stuck with the monstrous HD and the LA. Which means that you're probably going to die in about eight seconds fighting something "appropriate" for your adjusted level. Your DR will mean jack and you simply will never again have enough HP to matter. That's what LA does - it punishes you for being too good. I have had DMs that ruled, as you friend interpretted, that monster HD are part of what you get for your LA. This has the effect of you rarely being unfairly gimped in terms of HP and actually (and I have done with with weretigers, hound archons, and a couple of others things) I have never seen it create a truly unbalanced character.
HawkTheOne-Handed 06-16-07, 02:12 PM	Thanks guys!
drade 06-16-07, 02:31 PM	I know this sounds bad but I always count Monster HD as additional LA for PC, so werewolf would be say a LA +4.... It's easier for my players if they become one, but like I think someone already said it makes your monsterous PC a little weaker I think.