Level Adjustment Question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Level Adjustment Question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
tuberov
09-20-07, 07:25 PM I can't seem to get level adjustment down. I'm looking to make a Wemic character and it says it's got a level adjustment of 3, but it's got 5 hit dice and a base attack bonus of +5. Does this seem right (as his base attack bonus would be higher than his level would be)?

Also, at character level 4, I would be able to take my first level in a class, correct (in this case, barbarian)?
Rustmonster
09-20-07, 07:38 PM I can't seem to get level adjustment down. I'm looking to make a Wemic character and it says it's got a level adjustment of 3, but it's got 5 hit dice and a base attack bonus of +5. Does this seem right (as his base attack bonus would be higher than his level would be)?

Also, at character level 4, I would be able to take my first level in a class, correct (in this case, barbarian)?

No. You forgot that not only do you pay for LA, which is basiclly class features, but you have to pay for the hit dice. It would be 3+5=8 ECL. If you took one level of Barbarian, you would be level 9.

Remember, in D&D, you arn't meant to play any race that may be interesting beyond "hey, look, it's a small human" or "hey, it's a really skinny human". Therefore, they make you pay for the hitdice and racial features of monsters seperatly.

Remember how when you take a class level, you get a hit dice AND class features? Well, not so with monsters! They decided that the best way to handle it is to make you pay one full level for something that is esentially a half level! That'll show you to not just play one of the 5000 elf subraces! :rolleyes:
JarionSilverblades
09-20-07, 07:39 PM LA 3+ 5 HD= Character Level 8, it means it would gain XP as a 8th level character would, if you add a level of Barbarian it's now a 9th level character.
tuberov
09-20-07, 07:43 PM And of course, I'm assuming that you don't get the feat at character level 6 while paying for this?

Damn, that sucks. Thanks a lot, Wizards! :raincloud
j3st3r
09-20-07, 07:45 PM Wemic has an ECL (Effective Character Level) of 8 (LA3 + HD5). This means that wemic fighter 1 equals a human fighter 9. In other words, you can take your first class level at level 9.

EDIT: man I'm a slow writer :embarrass
JarionSilverblades
09-20-07, 07:58 PM There is one other thing, in Unearthed Arcane, is a LA buy off, so you could over time remove the LA 3.
Rustmonster
09-20-07, 08:17 PM There is one other thing, in Unearthed Arcane, is a LA buy off, so you could over time remove the LA 3.

Ya, but you still end up spending XP on lowering LA instead of leveling up. That means you are now GROSSLY far behind everyone else instead of just FAR behind everyone else. And you still have those crappy half-levels (racial HD) taking up whole levels.

I hope they fix this stuff up for 4th edition.
Archangel_Tyrael
09-21-07, 12:05 AM And of course, I'm assuming that you don't get the feat at character level 6 while paying for this?

Damn, that sucks. Thanks a lot, Wizards! :raincloud

You gain feat based on your Hit Dice, not level. You get a feat at 1st HD, 3rd HD, and every 3rd HD after that. So you actually get your "6th level feat" at Barbarian level (your 6th HD).
Neutronium_Dragon
09-21-07, 07:28 AM To be honest, I would not use the wemic as written. It's mechanically worse than a centaur for a higher ECL.
menmelnjourney
09-24-07, 12:59 PM I can't seem to get level adjustment down. I'm looking to make a Wemic character and it says it's got a level adjustment of 3, but it's got 5 hit dice and a base attack bonus of +5. Does this seem right (as his base attack bonus would be higher than his level would be)?

Also, at character level 4, I would be able to take my first level in a class, correct (in this case, barbarian)?

I'm with Tuberov. I'm having a hard time w/ level adjustments and have read the posts here but still am missing something.

HELP!!!

I'm creating a character that's race is a Doppelganger (LA +4) and my class is Rogue with a prestige of Chameleon. My DM said to roll him up and flush out the details and to start him out at 10th level as the rest of the party is 10th level.

So do I need to create him as a 6th level Rogue with all the skills, feats and HP that go with that level?

again I say: HELP! :weep: :surrender :bigeyes:
Naderion
09-24-07, 01:30 PM A doppelganger starts with 4 racial HD. So to create a 10th level charakter you start with 4 class levels, 4 levels of monstrous humanoid, and a LA of +2.

From the description of the race, a doppelganger don't really has to be born with 22 hp so you might ask your DM if you are allowed to make dopelganger with 8 class levels and no racial HD or maybe with 6 class levels and only 2 racial HD.

The most simple way to create a doppelganger rouge are from scratch and to treat reacial HD as a class. The monstrous humanoid class is described in the back of the Monster Manual at page 311. Of course, you have to start with the levels of monstrous humanoid and take the rogue levels after that. I'm not familiar with that PrC you mentioned, but chances are good that you can qualify for it just with racial HD and two or three levels of rogue, so your last or two last levels might allready be of that PrC.
menmelnjourney
09-24-07, 02:00 PM A doppelganger starts with 4 racial HD. So to create a 10th level charakter you start with 4 class levels, 4 levels of monstrous humanoid, and a LA of +2.

From the description of the race, a doppelganger don't really has to be born with 22 hp so you might ask your DM if you are allowed to make dopelganger with 8 class levels and no racial HD or maybe with 6 class levels and only 2 racial HD.

The most simple way to create a doppelganger rouge are from scratch and to treat reacial HD as a class. The monstrous humanoid class is described in the back of the Monster Manual at page 311. Of course, you have to start with the levels of monstrous humanoid and take the rogue levels after that. I'm not familiar with that PrC you mentioned, but chances are good that you can qualify for it just with racial HD and two or three levels of rogue, so your last or two last levels might allready be of that PrC.

I'm getting the info from the Races of Destiny book, not the monster manual. there is no level adjustment noted in the monster manual. So do I go by that or the Races of Destiny? :banghead:

I GREATLY appreciate your reply, but I have no idea what you just said. I have never played a monster race or anyting other than the usual suspects before and REALLY wanted to try something new. :bigeyes:

I am creating him from scratch. I rolled out my ability scores, made the racial adjustments to those, figured out the total number of skill points, feats, base attack and saves for the 10th level rogue character class, alloted the skill points, took feats and figured out attack bonuses.

DM gave me 150,000gp to get all my equipment (weapon, armor, magic items etc.) with and I have 1500gp left.

I figured with the prerequsites that by 5th level I would be able to start w/ the prestige and adjusted things accordingly, but now that I'm thinking about it, did that wrong, not sure though. will have to double check that when I can.

I have a sinking feeling I'm missing something but not sure what. :surrender :weep:
Naderion
09-24-07, 02:04 PM When the DM mentioned anything about Races of Desteny, than you are surely supposed to crate the character by the stats given there. If the doppelganger entry there doesn't say anything about racial Hit Dice, but only that LA is +4, than create a character with 6 class levels and the specifications of that race. There's really nothing that would be different than making a dwarf or halfling.
menmelnjourney
09-24-07, 05:26 PM When the DM mentioned anything about Races of Desteny, than you are surely supposed to crate the character by the stats given there. If the doppelganger entry there doesn't say anything about racial Hit Dice, but only that LA is +4, than create a character with 6 class levels and the specifications of that race. There's really nothing that would be different than making a dwarf or halfling.

my DM didn't know about the Races of Destiny, he was referring to the MM. So, I will adjust the character to a 6th level rouge with racial info included.

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!! :clap: :cheer: :bow:
DreamerInsane
09-24-07, 06:01 PM RoD Doppelganger: 4 Monstrous Humanoid HD, LA +4
concerro
09-24-07, 07:06 PM my DM didn't know about the Races of Destiny, he was referring to the MM. So, I will adjust the character to a 6th level rouge with racial info included.

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!! :clap: :cheer: :bow:

The monster manual does have a level adjustment. It is on page 68 so the ECL is 8 giving you 2 levels of rogue.

P.S. I guess dreamer beat me to it, but now there is clarification from 2 books
pres_man
09-25-07, 12:55 AM Effective Character Level (ECL) = Racial Hit Dice + Class Hit Dice + Level Adjustment (LA)

ECL is used to determine what level the character is for getting xp, how much xp is needed to level, starting wealth, and what level of party the character would be appropriate for.

Hit Dice total (Racial + Class) is used for number of feats, ability adjustments, skills, saves, base attack bonus, and just about every other thing.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
tuberov 09-20-07, 07:25 PM	I can't seem to get level adjustment down. I'm looking to make a Wemic character and it says it's got a level adjustment of 3, but it's got 5 hit dice and a base attack bonus of +5. Does this seem right (as his base attack bonus would be higher than his level would be)? Also, at character level 4, I would be able to take my first level in a class, correct (in this case, barbarian)?
Rustmonster 09-20-07, 07:38 PM	I can't seem to get level adjustment down. I'm looking to make a Wemic character and it says it's got a level adjustment of 3, but it's got 5 hit dice and a base attack bonus of +5. Does this seem right (as his base attack bonus would be higher than his level would be)? Also, at character level 4, I would be able to take my first level in a class, correct (in this case, barbarian)? No. You forgot that not only do you pay for LA, which is basiclly class features, but you have to pay for the hit dice. It would be 3+5=8 ECL. If you took one level of Barbarian, you would be level 9. Remember, in D&D, you arn't meant to play any race that may be interesting beyond "hey, look, it's a small human" or "hey, it's a really skinny human". Therefore, they make you pay for the hitdice and racial features of monsters seperatly. Remember how when you take a class level, you get a hit dice AND class features? Well, not so with monsters! They decided that the best way to handle it is to make you pay one full level for something that is esentially a half level! That'll show you to not just play one of the 5000 elf subraces! :rolleyes:
JarionSilverblades 09-20-07, 07:39 PM	LA 3+ 5 HD= Character Level 8, it means it would gain XP as a 8th level character would, if you add a level of Barbarian it's now a 9th level character.
tuberov 09-20-07, 07:43 PM	And of course, I'm assuming that you don't get the feat at character level 6 while paying for this? Damn, that sucks. Thanks a lot, Wizards! :raincloud
j3st3r 09-20-07, 07:45 PM	Wemic has an ECL (Effective Character Level) of 8 (LA3 + HD5). This means that wemic fighter 1 equals a human fighter 9. In other words, you can take your first class level at level 9. EDIT: man I'm a slow writer :embarrass
JarionSilverblades 09-20-07, 07:58 PM	There is one other thing, in Unearthed Arcane, is a LA buy off, so you could over time remove the LA 3.
Rustmonster 09-20-07, 08:17 PM	There is one other thing, in Unearthed Arcane, is a LA buy off, so you could over time remove the LA 3. Ya, but you still end up spending XP on lowering LA instead of leveling up. That means you are now GROSSLY far behind everyone else instead of just FAR behind everyone else. And you still have those crappy half-levels (racial HD) taking up whole levels. I hope they fix this stuff up for 4th edition.
Archangel_Tyrael 09-21-07, 12:05 AM	And of course, I'm assuming that you don't get the feat at character level 6 while paying for this? Damn, that sucks. Thanks a lot, Wizards! :raincloud You gain feat based on your Hit Dice, not level. You get a feat at 1st HD, 3rd HD, and every 3rd HD after that. So you actually get your "6th level feat" at Barbarian level (your 6th HD).
Neutronium_Dragon 09-21-07, 07:28 AM	To be honest, I would not use the wemic as written. It's mechanically worse than a centaur for a higher ECL.
menmelnjourney 09-24-07, 12:59 PM	I can't seem to get level adjustment down. I'm looking to make a Wemic character and it says it's got a level adjustment of 3, but it's got 5 hit dice and a base attack bonus of +5. Does this seem right (as his base attack bonus would be higher than his level would be)? Also, at character level 4, I would be able to take my first level in a class, correct (in this case, barbarian)? I'm with Tuberov. I'm having a hard time w/ level adjustments and have read the posts here but still am missing something. HELP!!! I'm creating a character that's race is a Doppelganger (LA +4) and my class is Rogue with a prestige of Chameleon. My DM said to roll him up and flush out the details and to start him out at 10th level as the rest of the party is 10th level. So do I need to create him as a 6th level Rogue with all the skills, feats and HP that go with that level? again I say: HELP! :weep: :surrender :bigeyes:
Naderion 09-24-07, 01:30 PM	A doppelganger starts with 4 racial HD. So to create a 10th level charakter you start with 4 class levels, 4 levels of monstrous humanoid, and a LA of +2. From the description of the race, a doppelganger don't really has to be born with 22 hp so you might ask your DM if you are allowed to make dopelganger with 8 class levels and no racial HD or maybe with 6 class levels and only 2 racial HD. The most simple way to create a doppelganger rouge are from scratch and to treat reacial HD as a class. The monstrous humanoid class is described in the back of the Monster Manual at page 311. Of course, you have to start with the levels of monstrous humanoid and take the rogue levels after that. I'm not familiar with that PrC you mentioned, but chances are good that you can qualify for it just with racial HD and two or three levels of rogue, so your last or two last levels might allready be of that PrC.
menmelnjourney 09-24-07, 02:00 PM	A doppelganger starts with 4 racial HD. So to create a 10th level charakter you start with 4 class levels, 4 levels of monstrous humanoid, and a LA of +2. From the description of the race, a doppelganger don't really has to be born with 22 hp so you might ask your DM if you are allowed to make dopelganger with 8 class levels and no racial HD or maybe with 6 class levels and only 2 racial HD. The most simple way to create a doppelganger rouge are from scratch and to treat reacial HD as a class. The monstrous humanoid class is described in the back of the Monster Manual at page 311. Of course, you have to start with the levels of monstrous humanoid and take the rogue levels after that. I'm not familiar with that PrC you mentioned, but chances are good that you can qualify for it just with racial HD and two or three levels of rogue, so your last or two last levels might allready be of that PrC. I'm getting the info from the Races of Destiny book, not the monster manual. there is no level adjustment noted in the monster manual. So do I go by that or the Races of Destiny? :banghead: I GREATLY appreciate your reply, but I have no idea what you just said. I have never played a monster race or anyting other than the usual suspects before and REALLY wanted to try something new. :bigeyes: I am creating him from scratch. I rolled out my ability scores, made the racial adjustments to those, figured out the total number of skill points, feats, base attack and saves for the 10th level rogue character class, alloted the skill points, took feats and figured out attack bonuses. DM gave me 150,000gp to get all my equipment (weapon, armor, magic items etc.) with and I have 1500gp left. I figured with the prerequsites that by 5th level I would be able to start w/ the prestige and adjusted things accordingly, but now that I'm thinking about it, did that wrong, not sure though. will have to double check that when I can. I have a sinking feeling I'm missing something but not sure what. :surrender :weep:
Naderion 09-24-07, 02:04 PM	When the DM mentioned anything about Races of Desteny, than you are surely supposed to crate the character by the stats given there. If the doppelganger entry there doesn't say anything about racial Hit Dice, but only that LA is +4, than create a character with 6 class levels and the specifications of that race. There's really nothing that would be different than making a dwarf or halfling.
menmelnjourney 09-24-07, 05:26 PM	When the DM mentioned anything about Races of Desteny, than you are surely supposed to crate the character by the stats given there. If the doppelganger entry there doesn't say anything about racial Hit Dice, but only that LA is +4, than create a character with 6 class levels and the specifications of that race. There's really nothing that would be different than making a dwarf or halfling. my DM didn't know about the Races of Destiny, he was referring to the MM. So, I will adjust the character to a 6th level rouge with racial info included. THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!! :clap: :cheer: :bow:
DreamerInsane 09-24-07, 06:01 PM	RoD Doppelganger: 4 Monstrous Humanoid HD, LA +4
concerro 09-24-07, 07:06 PM	my DM didn't know about the Races of Destiny, he was referring to the MM. So, I will adjust the character to a 6th level rouge with racial info included. THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!! :clap: :cheer: :bow: The monster manual does have a level adjustment. It is on page 68 so the ECL is 8 giving you 2 levels of rogue. P.S. I guess dreamer beat me to it, but now there is clarification from 2 books
pres_man 09-25-07, 12:55 AM	Effective Character Level (ECL) = Racial Hit Dice + Class Hit Dice + Level Adjustment (LA) ECL is used to determine what level the character is for getting xp, how much xp is needed to level, starting wealth, and what level of party the character would be appropriate for. Hit Dice total (Racial + Class) is used for number of feats, ability adjustments, skills, saves, base attack bonus, and just about every other thing.