level adjustment [Archive] - Wizards Community

level adjustment [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
maldron
09-17-07, 08:10 PM what does it mean when something has a "level adjustment +1" as selectable player character race?
Sunblast
09-17-07, 08:21 PM Basically, think of it as one less level that you can have. It's better explained through example.

For example's sake, pretend you're entering a new campaign. Your Dm says that the players can make characters that are 4th level. If you choose to use a +1 LA race, such as a tiefling, then you can only make a 3rd level character because that +1 LA would bring your "effective character level" to 4, the number you're aiming for.

Level adjustment is there to make sure you pay the price for having a powerful race. After all, it wouldn't be fair to play a very powerful race and still have as many class levels as the other players. One of the biggest costs you're going to face from doing this is less hit points. You may be a 4th level character, but you only have 3 hit dice.

Also note racial hit dice when making a character. They have an effect as well. If a race has 2 racial hit dice and a +1 LA, then you can only make a 1st level character and still be level 4 overall.

BTW, might I ask what race you're thinking about? I might have something to help you even more...
maldron
09-17-07, 09:07 PM I was looking at drow elf and perhaps some way to make them more friendly for ebberron, the forgotten realms version has:
Elf, Dark (Drow)
(MM3.5 p103)
+2 Int
+2 Cha
+2 Dex
–2 Con
Wizard
(males)
–or–
Cleric
(females)
<same> • Darkvision 120’
• +2 Racial bonus on Will save vs. spells & spell-like
abilities
• Light Blindness: daylight blinds the drow for 1 round;
–1 to Attack rolls, Spot checks , & Search checks
in bright light
• Spell Resistance of (11 + Character level)
• Automatic proficiency with Hand-Crossbows, Rapier,
& Shortsword.
• +2 Racial bonus to saves vs. Enchantments
• Cast the following spells 1/day at Character level:
Dancing Lights
Darkness
Faerie Fire
• Level Adjustment +2
--------------------------------------------------
The other race that was looking more friendly was: Death Touched
Death-Touched
(a person with some
type of Undead on
his/her ancestry.
Often pale, which
dark hair, & some
undead-like feature,
like sharp canine
teeth, a ghoul-like
tongue, or the smell
of a graveyard)
(DR313 p166)
–2 Con
+2 Wis
+4 Cha
Sorcerer <same> • Darkvision 60’
• +2 Racial bonus on Intimidate and Move Silently
checks.
• Cold Resistance 5.
• Electricity Resistance 5.
• Chill Touch, 1/day at Character level.
• Level Adjustment +1
Sunblast
09-17-07, 09:18 PM Drow was my first guess, actually. :-P

Here's something neat for drow. It's a version with 0 LA.
Drow Base Racial Features

All of the following are base racial abilities for the drow.

Ability Score Adjustments: +2 Dexterity, -2 Constitution, +2 Intelligence.

Size: Drow are Medium size.

Speed: Drow base land speed is 30 feet.

Proficiencies: A drow is proficient with the hand crossbow, rapier, and short sword.

Dancing Lights (Sp): A drow may use dancing lights (caster level equals drow's character level) once per day.

Darkvision (Ex): A drow has darkvision to a 60-foot range.

Immunities (Ex): A drow is immune to magic sleep effects.

Light Blindness (Ex): Abrupt exposure to bright light (such as sunlight or a daylight spell) blinds a drow for 1 round. On subsequent rounds, he is dazzled as long as he remains in the affected area.

Skill Bonuses: A drow has a +2 racial bonus on Listen, Search, and Spot checks. Furthermore, a drow who merely passes within 5 feet of a secret or concealed door is entitled to a Search check to notice it as if he were actively looking for it.

Automatic Languages: Common, Elven, Undercommon. Bonus Languages: Abyssal, Aquan, Draconic, Drow Sign Language, Gnome, Goblin.

Favored Class: Wizard (male) or cleric (female). A multiclass drow's wizard or cleric class (male or female, respectively) does not count when determining whether an experience point penalty applies.

I got it from here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040213a).

There's also a "monster class" for drow. That means you could start out as a LA 0 drow and, sometime later on, take a "level" of drow. the first one would effectively make you a LA 1 drow while the second would bring you up to what's in the Monster Manual.

I hope these help!
j3st3r
09-17-07, 09:32 PM There's also a Lesser version of the Drow in Player's Guide to Faerun, p.191.
KocaKoala
09-17-07, 10:35 PM Also note racial hit dice when making a character. They have an effect as well. If a race has 2 racial hit dice and a +1 LA, then you can only make a 1st level character and still be level 4 overall.
I hope it's alright if I ask some of my own questions here.
If a race lists racial hit dice, feats, and skills, is it a fair trade to just remove those bonuses to keep the level adjustment where it is? I've been getting easily confused when some races list racial hit dice and some don't.
Sunblast
09-17-07, 10:40 PM I don't think you're supposed to be doing that.
KocaKoala
09-17-07, 10:47 PM I don't think you're supposed to be doing that.Well my question is very relevant to this topic.
BugHunter
09-18-07, 12:35 AM I hope it's alright if I ask some of my own questions here.
If a race lists racial hit dice, feats, and skills, is it a fair trade to just remove those bonuses to keep the level adjustment where it is? I've been getting easily confused when some races list racial hit dice and some don't.

You would have to use the savage progression articles or the Savage Species book and slowly gain the HD and all of the abilities of the race.

As for the drow they are covered as mentioned in the Player's Guide to Faerun or use the Drow of the Underdark book.
ReverendBSB
09-18-07, 01:47 AM I use Gnolls as a major race in my campaign and I use them as a LA+1 player race. I just don't use the racial hit dice, skills, etc. and there is no problem. I just don't see the point of them in the first place.
dman11235
09-18-07, 02:01 AM That's because a gnoll is worth an LA+1, and not LA+1 and 2 racial HD. Seriously, it's a really weak ECL 4 character.

Now, would you get rid of the racial HD for, say, the troll? I sure wouldn't.
ReverendBSB
09-18-07, 02:34 AM I don't see why not. With a +5 LA and 1 class level you would be at a severe disadvantage playing a Troll with everyone else playing 6th level characters. Sure you have some great physical stats, attacks, and regeneration but you only have one hit die. Even with a high Con bonus one Fireball could take you out real quick.
Sunblast
09-18-07, 07:21 AM Well my question is very relevant to this topic.
Nah, I meant removing hit dice. I'm not too certain about that one.
Novem
09-18-07, 07:42 AM I think you can remove HD- it doesn't say you can't- Generally, I just give racial HD or levels in an NPC class and remove the Level Adjustment completely

To the OP, all normal player races are LA +0, as well as Kobolds, Goblins, and a few other MM creatures. Creatures with LA - cannot be advanced, except by racial HD.
j3st3r
09-18-07, 08:48 AM Creatures with LA - cannot be advanced, except by racial HD.

I don't think that's true. AFAIK All playable creatures can be advanced By character class.
Captain_Kobold
09-18-07, 09:35 AM I hope it's alright if I ask some of my own questions here.
If a race lists racial hit dice, feats, and skills, is it a fair trade to just remove those bonuses to keep the level adjustment where it is? I've been getting easily confused when some races list racial hit dice and some don't.

If your DM reckons its OK as a house rule, then fair enough. However removing racial Hit dice from a race will generally give an overall increase in power compared to a race using the correct rules.

The reason for this is that most Racial hit dice are not as good as class levels. Take the troll as an example: By the rules, a troll is an ECL 11 character: +5 level adjustment, and 6 HD of Giant. If you were to ignore racial hit dice you could have +5 Level adjustment, and 6 levels of fighter or barbarian. This would be far more powerful.
Dragon or Outsider hit dice are the only ones that come close in power to actual class levels.

Unless a feat is listed as a bonus feat, any skills and feats on the monsters' entry are from its racial hit dice, assuming no character levels. A character with racial hit dice can assign skill points and feats from racial HD where they wish, they do not have to be the same as the ones given in the MM entry.
If a creature has only one hit dice, that is replaced by its class level.

For example, both Gnolls and Drow are playable from ECL 3. The gnoll has LA +1 and two levels of Humanoid, same as in the MM entry. The drow has +2 LA and the Warrior class level is replaced by its first character class level. So even though both can be played at level 3, the Gnoll has no character class level, and the drow has one.

Hope this has helped.

Note: I'm not starting an arguement as to whether trolls, drow, or gnolls are actually balanced under the current rules. I'm just using them as examples of the way the rules work. Any adjustments are a matter of houseruling and up to the DM of that particular game.
concerro
09-18-07, 10:58 AM That LA is almost based on the monster's special abilities/attacks. So if you get rid of the HD and use the only the LA without taking away some of the special abilities you may be getting to much power.
I do think that not all racial HD are created equal, and adjusting of LA should be left to an experienced player/DM. I dont agree with a lot of ECL's and there are some that I do change. I have drow at an ECL of +1 because other than spell resistance and darkvision the other abilities they get beyond what an elf would get don't warrant a +2 to me.
Zyrusticae
09-18-07, 12:36 PM I think you can remove HD- it doesn't say you can't-
See, that's not how D&D works. When it comes to mechanics, if does not say you can, you can't. Racial HD are there for a reason. Removing them requires that you remove other features of the race to keep it balanced with other players, and then you have to acid test to make sure it's not too weak, nor too powerful. Lotsa work involved, there.

This is just one reason I'm really looking forward to 4e...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
maldron 09-17-07, 08:10 PM	what does it mean when something has a "level adjustment +1" as selectable player character race?
Sunblast 09-17-07, 08:21 PM	Basically, think of it as one less level that you can have. It's better explained through example. For example's sake, pretend you're entering a new campaign. Your Dm says that the players can make characters that are 4th level. If you choose to use a +1 LA race, such as a tiefling, then you can only make a 3rd level character because that +1 LA would bring your "effective character level" to 4, the number you're aiming for. Level adjustment is there to make sure you pay the price for having a powerful race. After all, it wouldn't be fair to play a very powerful race and still have as many class levels as the other players. One of the biggest costs you're going to face from doing this is less hit points. You may be a 4th level character, but you only have 3 hit dice. Also note racial hit dice when making a character. They have an effect as well. If a race has 2 racial hit dice and a +1 LA, then you can only make a 1st level character and still be level 4 overall. BTW, might I ask what race you're thinking about? I might have something to help you even more...
maldron 09-17-07, 09:07 PM	I was looking at drow elf and perhaps some way to make them more friendly for ebberron, the forgotten realms version has: Elf, Dark (Drow) (MM3.5 p103) +2 Int +2 Cha +2 Dex –2 Con Wizard (males) –or– Cleric (females) <same> • Darkvision 120’ • +2 Racial bonus on Will save vs. spells & spell-like abilities • Light Blindness: daylight blinds the drow for 1 round; –1 to Attack rolls, Spot checks , & Search checks in bright light • Spell Resistance of (11 + Character level) • Automatic proficiency with Hand-Crossbows, Rapier, & Shortsword. • +2 Racial bonus to saves vs. Enchantments • Cast the following spells 1/day at Character level: Dancing Lights Darkness Faerie Fire • Level Adjustment +2 -------------------------------------------------- The other race that was looking more friendly was: Death Touched Death-Touched (a person with some type of Undead on his/her ancestry. Often pale, which dark hair, & some undead-like feature, like sharp canine teeth, a ghoul-like tongue, or the smell of a graveyard) (DR313 p166) –2 Con +2 Wis +4 Cha Sorcerer <same> • Darkvision 60’ • +2 Racial bonus on Intimidate and Move Silently checks. • Cold Resistance 5. • Electricity Resistance 5. • Chill Touch, 1/day at Character level. • Level Adjustment +1
Sunblast 09-17-07, 09:18 PM	Drow was my first guess, actually. :-P Here's something neat for drow. It's a version with 0 LA. Drow Base Racial Features All of the following are base racial abilities for the drow. Ability Score Adjustments: +2 Dexterity, -2 Constitution, +2 Intelligence. Size: Drow are Medium size. Speed: Drow base land speed is 30 feet. Proficiencies: A drow is proficient with the hand crossbow, rapier, and short sword. Dancing Lights (Sp): A drow may use dancing lights (caster level equals drow's character level) once per day. Darkvision (Ex): A drow has darkvision to a 60-foot range. Immunities (Ex): A drow is immune to magic sleep effects. Light Blindness (Ex): Abrupt exposure to bright light (such as sunlight or a daylight spell) blinds a drow for 1 round. On subsequent rounds, he is dazzled as long as he remains in the affected area. Skill Bonuses: A drow has a +2 racial bonus on Listen, Search, and Spot checks. Furthermore, a drow who merely passes within 5 feet of a secret or concealed door is entitled to a Search check to notice it as if he were actively looking for it. Automatic Languages: Common, Elven, Undercommon. Bonus Languages: Abyssal, Aquan, Draconic, Drow Sign Language, Gnome, Goblin. Favored Class: Wizard (male) or cleric (female). A multiclass drow's wizard or cleric class (male or female, respectively) does not count when determining whether an experience point penalty applies. I got it from here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040213a). There's also a "monster class" for drow. That means you could start out as a LA 0 drow and, sometime later on, take a "level" of drow. the first one would effectively make you a LA 1 drow while the second would bring you up to what's in the Monster Manual. I hope these help!
j3st3r 09-17-07, 09:32 PM	There's also a Lesser version of the Drow in Player's Guide to Faerun, p.191.
KocaKoala 09-17-07, 10:35 PM	Also note racial hit dice when making a character. They have an effect as well. If a race has 2 racial hit dice and a +1 LA, then you can only make a 1st level character and still be level 4 overall. I hope it's alright if I ask some of my own questions here. If a race lists racial hit dice, feats, and skills, is it a fair trade to just remove those bonuses to keep the level adjustment where it is? I've been getting easily confused when some races list racial hit dice and some don't.
Sunblast 09-17-07, 10:40 PM	I don't think you're supposed to be doing that.
KocaKoala 09-17-07, 10:47 PM	I don't think you're supposed to be doing that.Well my question is very relevant to this topic.
BugHunter 09-18-07, 12:35 AM	I hope it's alright if I ask some of my own questions here. If a race lists racial hit dice, feats, and skills, is it a fair trade to just remove those bonuses to keep the level adjustment where it is? I've been getting easily confused when some races list racial hit dice and some don't. You would have to use the savage progression articles or the Savage Species book and slowly gain the HD and all of the abilities of the race. As for the drow they are covered as mentioned in the Player's Guide to Faerun or use the Drow of the Underdark book.
ReverendBSB 09-18-07, 01:47 AM	I use Gnolls as a major race in my campaign and I use them as a LA+1 player race. I just don't use the racial hit dice, skills, etc. and there is no problem. I just don't see the point of them in the first place.
dman11235 09-18-07, 02:01 AM	That's because a gnoll is worth an LA+1, and not LA+1 and 2 racial HD. Seriously, it's a really weak ECL 4 character. Now, would you get rid of the racial HD for, say, the troll? I sure wouldn't.
ReverendBSB 09-18-07, 02:34 AM	I don't see why not. With a +5 LA and 1 class level you would be at a severe disadvantage playing a Troll with everyone else playing 6th level characters. Sure you have some great physical stats, attacks, and regeneration but you only have one hit die. Even with a high Con bonus one Fireball could take you out real quick.
Sunblast 09-18-07, 07:21 AM	Well my question is very relevant to this topic. Nah, I meant removing hit dice. I'm not too certain about that one.
Novem 09-18-07, 07:42 AM	I think you can remove HD- it doesn't say you can't- Generally, I just give racial HD or levels in an NPC class and remove the Level Adjustment completely To the OP, all normal player races are LA +0, as well as Kobolds, Goblins, and a few other MM creatures. Creatures with LA - cannot be advanced, except by racial HD.
j3st3r 09-18-07, 08:48 AM	Creatures with LA - cannot be advanced, except by racial HD. I don't think that's true. AFAIK All playable creatures can be advanced By character class.
Captain_Kobold 09-18-07, 09:35 AM	I hope it's alright if I ask some of my own questions here. If a race lists racial hit dice, feats, and skills, is it a fair trade to just remove those bonuses to keep the level adjustment where it is? I've been getting easily confused when some races list racial hit dice and some don't. If your DM reckons its OK as a house rule, then fair enough. However removing racial Hit dice from a race will generally give an overall increase in power compared to a race using the correct rules. The reason for this is that most Racial hit dice are not as good as class levels. Take the troll as an example: By the rules, a troll is an ECL 11 character: +5 level adjustment, and 6 HD of Giant. If you were to ignore racial hit dice you could have +5 Level adjustment, and 6 levels of fighter or barbarian. This would be far more powerful. Dragon or Outsider hit dice are the only ones that come close in power to actual class levels. Unless a feat is listed as a bonus feat, any skills and feats on the monsters' entry are from its racial hit dice, assuming no character levels. A character with racial hit dice can assign skill points and feats from racial HD where they wish, they do not have to be the same as the ones given in the MM entry. If a creature has only one hit dice, that is replaced by its class level. For example, both Gnolls and Drow are playable from ECL 3. The gnoll has LA +1 and two levels of Humanoid, same as in the MM entry. The drow has +2 LA and the Warrior class level is replaced by its first character class level. So even though both can be played at level 3, the Gnoll has no character class level, and the drow has one. Hope this has helped. Note: I'm not starting an arguement as to whether trolls, drow, or gnolls are actually balanced under the current rules. I'm just using them as examples of the way the rules work. Any adjustments are a matter of houseruling and up to the DM of that particular game.
concerro 09-18-07, 10:58 AM	That LA is almost based on the monster's special abilities/attacks. So if you get rid of the HD and use the only the LA without taking away some of the special abilities you may be getting to much power. I do think that not all racial HD are created equal, and adjusting of LA should be left to an experienced player/DM. I dont agree with a lot of ECL's and there are some that I do change. I have drow at an ECL of +1 because other than spell resistance and darkvision the other abilities they get beyond what an elf would get don't warrant a +2 to me.
Zyrusticae 09-18-07, 12:36 PM	I think you can remove HD- it doesn't say you can't- See, that's not how D&D works. When it comes to mechanics, if does not say you can, you can't. Racial HD are there for a reason. Removing them requires that you remove other features of the race to keep it balanced with other players, and then you have to acid test to make sure it's not too weak, nor too powerful. Lotsa work involved, there. This is just one reason I'm really looking forward to 4e...