living construct = construct? [Archive] - Wizards Community

living construct = construct? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
G_Mancer
02-12-08, 08:51 PM I would like to apply a template to a warforged. the template (mineral warrior) cant be appied to constructs.

stupid question: is 'Living construct"still "construct" type?

i think a warforged made of adamantium would be bada$$.
Part-Human2
02-12-08, 10:33 PM A "living construct" is a Construct type with the [Living] subtype. A warforged would not be valid for the Mineral Warrior template.

That being said, ask your DM to allow it anyway. If you're doing because it's bad"bum"ed, there is a good reason the character acquired the template, and you're not just trying an optimization cheat, then maybe he/she will allow it.
Crimson_Concerto
02-12-08, 10:56 PM Have you considered the Adamantine Body feat?
Jaxgaret
02-12-08, 10:58 PM How about a Warforged with the Mineral Warrior template that takes the Green Star Adept PrC?

All sorts of badass!!!!11!1!!oneone!!!1one
G_Mancer
02-12-08, 11:04 PM Have you considered the Adamantine Body feat?

where is this feat and what does it do?
Salla
02-12-08, 11:18 PM where is this feat and what does it do?

It's in the Eberron Campaign Setting and Races of Eberron. It gives the Warforged adamantine body plating (exact details omitted due to CoC).
Chase
02-14-08, 10:10 PM Where did you find the Mineral Warrior template?
HiQKid
02-14-08, 11:02 PM The Mineral Warrior template is in the Underdark book.

Or, here: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20031003e
M-bark
02-15-08, 07:59 AM A Warforged is still a construct, and can thus have a template applied to it that can be applied to constructs, so yes, it could become a Mineral Warrior.
Captain_Kobold
02-15-08, 01:35 PM A Warforged is still a construct, and can thus have a template applied to it that can be applied to constructs, so yes, it could become a Mineral Warrior.
Doesn't the Mineral Warrior template specifically state that it cannot be applied to Constructs?

Also, is it just me, or does the Mineral Warrior template seem a bit too good for just +1 LA?
M-bark
02-15-08, 02:01 PM Doesn't the Mineral Warrior template specifically state that it cannot be applied to Constructs?

Also, is it just me, or does the Mineral Warrior template seem a bit too good for just +1 LA?

Ah, sorry, I had misread the first post. I thought it read that it could be applied to constructs. My bad.

Anyways, Warforged are kinda treated as being constructs and humanoids at the same time, kinda like how the Lesser Planetouched are treated as outsiders and humanoids at the same time.
Sinfire Titan
02-15-08, 02:06 PM Also, is it just me, or does the Mineral Warrior template seem a bit too good for just +1 LA?

It is considered really good for a +1.
Jaxgaret
02-16-08, 04:14 AM It is considered really good for a +1.

It is good, but there are two things to consider:

1) Non-casters in D&D 3e are almost universally on the low side of the power balance curve, so giving them a power boost isn't really a bad thing.

2) Most of the benefit of the template is the DR 8/adamantine and +3 NA. Against foes who can bypass that DR, the total combined benefit of the template is +0 to stats, the NA, and some negligible abilities. That's just about worth a +1 LA by itself.

Of course, against enemies for whom the DR does apply, it is a good template, but IMO it is not quite worth +2 LA. If anything, I would simply lower the DR by a bit and call it a day. Giving it DR 3/- might be a good compromise.
Sinfire Titan
02-16-08, 06:11 AM It is good, but there are two things to consider:

1) Non-casters in D&D 3e are almost universally on the low side of the power balance curve, so giving them a power boost isn't really a bad thing.

2) Most of the benefit of the template is the DR 8/adamantine and +3 NA. Against foes who can bypass that DR, the total combined benefit of the template is +0 to stats, the NA, and some negligible abilities. That's just about worth a +1 LA by itself.

Of course, against enemies for whom the DR does apply, it is a good template, but IMO it is not quite worth +2 LA. If anything, I would simply lower the DR by a bit and call it a day. Giving it DR 3/- might be a good compromise.

Or adding another template (Lolth-Touched, Feral, Half-Minotaur).
runestar
02-16-08, 06:44 AM 2) Most of the benefit of the template is the DR 8/adamantine and +3 NA.

Which is already very good. Apart from golems, most foes lack traditional access to means of overcoming dr/adamantine. This means that the PC will likely get full benefit most of the time.

As for NA, you can never have enough of it.

Against foes who can bypass that DR, the total combined benefit of the template is +0 to stats

I wouldn't call it net+0, if we assume that the race taking it will get to maximize its benefits, this will mean that it can benefit as much as possible from the str and con boosts, while losing virtually nothing from the mental stat penalties (such as a barb, where the only real loss are a few skill points and -1 will save).
Jaxgaret
02-17-08, 04:36 PM Which is already very good. Apart from golems, most foes lack traditional access to means of overcoming dr/adamantine. This means that the PC will likely get full benefit most of the time.

That is true, if you only fight monsters out of the MMs. Campaigns differ; in some campaigns, most of your fighting is done against enemies with wide access to equipment.

As for NA, you can never have enough of it.

Agreed, though it only applies against mundane attacks, and provides little defense against spellcasters.

I wouldn't call it net+0, if we assume that the race taking it will get to maximize its benefits, this will mean that it can benefit as much as possible from the str and con boosts, while losing virtually nothing from the mental stat penalties (such as a barb, where the only real loss are a few skill points and -1 will save).

You are right in that it may benefit the character more than simply having +0s across the board, but it is still a net +0 to stats, which for LA purposes means the same thing.

The loss of skill points and especially the penalty to Will saves and the perception skills hurts a melee character, as that makes it 5% more likely for them to be Dominated, and 5% more likely for the enemy to get the drop on them.
Captain_Kobold
02-17-08, 07:45 PM That is true, if you only fight monsters out of the MMs. Campaigns differ; in some campaigns, most of your fighting is done against enemies with wide access to equipment.

In which case, the DM has to decide whether to give the low-level PCs a continual suppy of Adamantine weapons with a high resale value, or have your third level fighter ignoring half of the damage that he is taking. One option will throw the wealth-by level of the party off kilter severely, the other, the CR system. Its relatively rare that parties face challenges consisting of a majority of offensive spellcasters.

The problem I have is that its low LA makes it an option that characters can take advantage of at low level. At level 12, the extra Hit points, AC and DR are still useful. At level 2-5, they are hideously powerful, unless the DM decides to warp his campaign around it.
Edymnion
02-17-08, 08:40 PM Anyways, Warforged are kinda treated as being constructs and humanoids at the same time, kinda like how the Lesser Planetouched are treated as outsiders and humanoids at the same time.No, not really. Warforged are never considered to be Humanoids. They are not affected by any spell or ability that targets humanoids (such as Hold Person or Enlarge Person). They are Constructs. At no time are they ever treated as being a Humanoid.where is this feat and what does it do?Its in the same book as the WF, in the feats chapter if you got the race from the ECS, or in it's monster entry if you go it from MM3.
Crimson_Concerto
02-18-08, 12:34 AM No, not really. Warforged are never considered to be Humanoids. They are not affected by any spell or ability that targets humanoids (such as Hold Person or Enlarge Person). They are Constructs. At no time are they ever treated as being a Humanoid.Seconded. I can think of no circumstances where Warforged are treated as humanoids instead of constructs.
ToastedAmphibian
02-20-08, 05:42 PM The only way to get the mineral warrior template is through a spell. A 6th level arcane spell, and a lengthy tour of service. A first level character cannot aquire that. Low level problem solved :}

Its also really fun to stack mineral warrior on top of a natural lycanthrope. Your con can go through teh roof, and combined with your animal HD, stone strike can actually be competent. And besides, am i the only one who reads DR 10/ silver + DR 8/ adamantine to be DR 8+/- ? Besides, a burrow speed is fun with spring attack.

And no, warforged cannot play. Unless you change there type first.

Dragon (Augmented Construct, Earth) ?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
G_Mancer 02-12-08, 08:51 PM	I would like to apply a template to a warforged. the template (mineral warrior) cant be appied to constructs. stupid question: is 'Living construct"still "construct" type? i think a warforged made of adamantium would be bada$$.
Part-Human2 02-12-08, 10:33 PM	A "living construct" is a Construct type with the [Living] subtype. A warforged would not be valid for the Mineral Warrior template. That being said, ask your DM to allow it anyway. If you're doing because it's bad"bum"ed, there is a good reason the character acquired the template, and you're not just trying an optimization cheat, then maybe he/she will allow it.
Crimson_Concerto 02-12-08, 10:56 PM	Have you considered the Adamantine Body feat?
Jaxgaret 02-12-08, 10:58 PM	How about a Warforged with the Mineral Warrior template that takes the Green Star Adept PrC? All sorts of badass!!!!11!1!!oneone!!!1one
G_Mancer 02-12-08, 11:04 PM	Have you considered the Adamantine Body feat? where is this feat and what does it do?
Salla 02-12-08, 11:18 PM	where is this feat and what does it do? It's in the Eberron Campaign Setting and Races of Eberron. It gives the Warforged adamantine body plating (exact details omitted due to CoC).
Chase 02-14-08, 10:10 PM	Where did you find the Mineral Warrior template?
HiQKid 02-14-08, 11:02 PM	The Mineral Warrior template is in the Underdark book. Or, here: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20031003e
M-bark 02-15-08, 07:59 AM	A Warforged is still a construct, and can thus have a template applied to it that can be applied to constructs, so yes, it could become a Mineral Warrior.
Captain_Kobold 02-15-08, 01:35 PM	A Warforged is still a construct, and can thus have a template applied to it that can be applied to constructs, so yes, it could become a Mineral Warrior. Doesn't the Mineral Warrior template specifically state that it cannot be applied to Constructs? Also, is it just me, or does the Mineral Warrior template seem a bit too good for just +1 LA?
M-bark 02-15-08, 02:01 PM	Doesn't the Mineral Warrior template specifically state that it cannot be applied to Constructs? Also, is it just me, or does the Mineral Warrior template seem a bit too good for just +1 LA? Ah, sorry, I had misread the first post. I thought it read that it could be applied to constructs. My bad. Anyways, Warforged are kinda treated as being constructs and humanoids at the same time, kinda like how the Lesser Planetouched are treated as outsiders and humanoids at the same time.
Sinfire Titan 02-15-08, 02:06 PM	Also, is it just me, or does the Mineral Warrior template seem a bit too good for just +1 LA? It is considered really good for a +1.
Jaxgaret 02-16-08, 04:14 AM	It is considered really good for a +1. It is good, but there are two things to consider: 1) Non-casters in D&D 3e are almost universally on the low side of the power balance curve, so giving them a power boost isn't really a bad thing. 2) Most of the benefit of the template is the DR 8/adamantine and +3 NA. Against foes who can bypass that DR, the total combined benefit of the template is +0 to stats, the NA, and some negligible abilities. That's just about worth a +1 LA by itself. Of course, against enemies for whom the DR does apply, it is a good template, but IMO it is not quite worth +2 LA. If anything, I would simply lower the DR by a bit and call it a day. Giving it DR 3/- might be a good compromise.
Sinfire Titan 02-16-08, 06:11 AM	It is good, but there are two things to consider: 1) Non-casters in D&D 3e are almost universally on the low side of the power balance curve, so giving them a power boost isn't really a bad thing. 2) Most of the benefit of the template is the DR 8/adamantine and +3 NA. Against foes who can bypass that DR, the total combined benefit of the template is +0 to stats, the NA, and some negligible abilities. That's just about worth a +1 LA by itself. Of course, against enemies for whom the DR does apply, it is a good template, but IMO it is not quite worth +2 LA. If anything, I would simply lower the DR by a bit and call it a day. Giving it DR 3/- might be a good compromise. Or adding another template (Lolth-Touched, Feral, Half-Minotaur).
runestar 02-16-08, 06:44 AM	2) Most of the benefit of the template is the DR 8/adamantine and +3 NA. Which is already very good. Apart from golems, most foes lack traditional access to means of overcoming dr/adamantine. This means that the PC will likely get full benefit most of the time. As for NA, you can never have enough of it. Against foes who can bypass that DR, the total combined benefit of the template is +0 to stats I wouldn't call it net+0, if we assume that the race taking it will get to maximize its benefits, this will mean that it can benefit as much as possible from the str and con boosts, while losing virtually nothing from the mental stat penalties (such as a barb, where the only real loss are a few skill points and -1 will save).
Jaxgaret 02-17-08, 04:36 PM	Which is already very good. Apart from golems, most foes lack traditional access to means of overcoming dr/adamantine. This means that the PC will likely get full benefit most of the time. That is true, if you only fight monsters out of the MMs. Campaigns differ; in some campaigns, most of your fighting is done against enemies with wide access to equipment. As for NA, you can never have enough of it. Agreed, though it only applies against mundane attacks, and provides little defense against spellcasters. I wouldn't call it net+0, if we assume that the race taking it will get to maximize its benefits, this will mean that it can benefit as much as possible from the str and con boosts, while losing virtually nothing from the mental stat penalties (such as a barb, where the only real loss are a few skill points and -1 will save). You are right in that it may benefit the character more than simply having +0s across the board, but it is still a net +0 to stats, which for LA purposes means the same thing. The loss of skill points and especially the penalty to Will saves and the perception skills hurts a melee character, as that makes it 5% more likely for them to be Dominated, and 5% more likely for the enemy to get the drop on them.
Captain_Kobold 02-17-08, 07:45 PM	That is true, if you only fight monsters out of the MMs. Campaigns differ; in some campaigns, most of your fighting is done against enemies with wide access to equipment. In which case, the DM has to decide whether to give the low-level PCs a continual suppy of Adamantine weapons with a high resale value, or have your third level fighter ignoring half of the damage that he is taking. One option will throw the wealth-by level of the party off kilter severely, the other, the CR system. Its relatively rare that parties face challenges consisting of a majority of offensive spellcasters. The problem I have is that its low LA makes it an option that characters can take advantage of at low level. At level 12, the extra Hit points, AC and DR are still useful. At level 2-5, they are hideously powerful, unless the DM decides to warp his campaign around it.
Edymnion 02-17-08, 08:40 PM	Anyways, Warforged are kinda treated as being constructs and humanoids at the same time, kinda like how the Lesser Planetouched are treated as outsiders and humanoids at the same time.No, not really. Warforged are never considered to be Humanoids. They are not affected by any spell or ability that targets humanoids (such as Hold Person or Enlarge Person). They are Constructs. At no time are they ever treated as being a Humanoid.where is this feat and what does it do?Its in the same book as the WF, in the feats chapter if you got the race from the ECS, or in it's monster entry if you go it from MM3.
Crimson_Concerto 02-18-08, 12:34 AM	No, not really. Warforged are never considered to be Humanoids. They are not affected by any spell or ability that targets humanoids (such as Hold Person or Enlarge Person). They are Constructs. At no time are they ever treated as being a Humanoid.Seconded. I can think of no circumstances where Warforged are treated as humanoids instead of constructs.
ToastedAmphibian 02-20-08, 05:42 PM	The only way to get the mineral warrior template is through a spell. A 6th level arcane spell, and a lengthy tour of service. A first level character cannot aquire that. Low level problem solved :} Its also really fun to stack mineral warrior on top of a natural lycanthrope. Your con can go through teh roof, and combined with your animal HD, stone strike can actually be competent. And besides, am i the only one who reads DR 10/ silver + DR 8/ adamantine to be DR 8+/- ? Besides, a burrow speed is fun with spring attack. And no, warforged cannot play. Unless you change there type first. Dragon (Augmented Construct, Earth) ?