Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Nat_20 05-15-07, 03:39 PM	I recently came across a template called Lolth Touched. It gives a big boost to STR and CON and some skills, for a Lvl Adj of +1. Now, is there any other templates that give specify any other deities? Like I made a variant of the template call Nerull Touched, that gave +6 STR and CON, same a Lolth's so far, and instead of +2 to move silent and hide (AKA Stealthy Feat) I gave a once per day spell-like ability of Darkness, caster level equal to 1/2 of characters class levels. (In my opinion equal, there are feats that give up to three spell like abilities one per day) Does anyone else have any ideas on other God Touched Variants??? So far the Formula is +6 to two physical stats (maybe one physical and one mental) and a minor feat... Any ideas?
Nat_20 05-15-07, 04:07 PM	Let me add another one... Boccob Touched: +6 to CON and INT, and +2 in any two Knowledge Skills (chosen when template is added) LVL ADJ: +1 any one else got ideas?
penchant 05-15-07, 04:10 PM	Yes and they manifest in various ways. The only other one I know of that is statted out is the Chosen of Mystra (total BS IMHO).
Nat_20 05-15-07, 04:13 PM	Do they even have a Lvl Adj for the template? Seems to uber for free... But im trying to get people to come up with others... like the Lolth touched one.
Poison_Dusk 05-15-07, 05:29 PM	Bane-touched: +6 STR, +6 CHA, +2 to Intimadate and Bluff
Einvaldurinn_mikli 05-15-07, 05:31 PM	I laughed at the title. "Billy, where did that god touch you? It's okay, you can use this doll to show me"
Morwen 05-15-07, 05:40 PM	Do they even have a Lvl Adj for the template? Seems to uber for free... No, but that doesn't mean it's for free. It means the designers don't think it's suitable for PCs.
Evil DM Mk3 05-15-07, 05:50 PM	One of the reasons why Forgotten Realms has (rightly or not) earned the label of a game where the PCs are allways second string.
WinDReiN 05-15-07, 05:53 PM	Those templates like Lolth touched are too good for PCs for a LA of +1.
Borris 05-15-07, 05:58 PM	In my games, I'd never allow the Lolth-touched template for a cost of just +1 LA. It's way too good for that. Don't forget that, in addition to +6 to two ability scores and +4 (not +2) to two good skills, it also makes the character immune to all fear effects. I don't see how this could be worth anything but a +2 LA.
braethias 05-15-07, 06:46 PM	Ha, I giggle at the title. You get a cookie! Also, I'd place the LA at +1, the bonus to skills just doesn't seem enough in conjunction with the immuno-fear, fear's not really widely used. At least, it seems that way to me. I can only think of a handful of mobs that utilize fear, so that doesn't strike me as a full +1 either. My favorite race is the Half-ogre, not for the stats or armor, but for the size boost. a medium sized toon with +6 str and con would be nice, yeah, but I'd pick a half-ogre over it anyday. A boost to size could be waaay better for a melee toon than those stats. (also, me and my group opted for the +1 LA of the 1/2-ogre, not +2.)
The Ubbergeek 05-15-07, 06:52 PM	One of the reasons why Forgotten Realms has (rightly or not) earned the label of a game where the PCs are allways second string. The Chosens are, well, chosens - champions. In a way, isn't logical that a god would make some uberchampion to further his goal? And no, no, NO! Gee! If someone DM the FR like that, he have not understood it! FR=GH much on that aspect - the pc are always the focus, no question.
AMGriffin 05-15-07, 09:04 PM	The Lolth Touched template is perfectly balanced...IF you only permit it to be used by Drow. I figured it's primary purpose was to make drow capable melee types, because drow are SORRY at melee combat, yet with this template they're actually pretty solid for LA+3 as fighter types. If you apply this template to ANYTHING other then drow (Namely orcs) then yes, the template is hideously broken. It functions just fine when you only allow it to be applied to drow however.
penchant 05-15-07, 10:50 PM	What I would do is simply treat the god touched type of template the same as you would an artifact. It is a plot drived gift that causes as much turmoil as it gives power. It is unique, unpricable and unselectable. That goes for "Chosen" as well as any "touched" or your own homebrew. That way you can include abilities that are incalculable for LA. Like 9 SLA's or 9 Spell Immunities or immunity to dead magic or... Forgotten Realms is built so that your feeble PC's cannot possibly matter in the world. If you succeed or fail, it makes no difference to the status quo. If your DM is brazen enough to allow you to fix outstanding problems, defeat great evils or even usurp the power of notable notables then he invalidates any future supplements that are released. Every time he gets a module or guide he must rewrite the extensive changes that he has made since the existing storyline starts to unravel pretty quickly once you go outside the box.
Nat_20 05-15-07, 11:01 PM	The Lolth Touched template is perfectly balanced...IF you only permit it to be used by Drow. I figured it's primary purpose was to make drow capable melee types, because drow are SORRY at melee combat, yet with this template they're actually pretty solid for LA+3 as fighter types. If you apply this template to ANYTHING other then drow (Namely orcs) then yes, the template is hideously broken. It functions just fine when you only allow it to be applied to drow however. I think a way to balance it would be +2 for any race, but the Lolth one for drow is +1. But for a lvl adj of two you need a little more bang for the buck.... you know? Ha, I giggle at the title. You get a cookie! Thank you, im gonna put this in my sig...
Poison_Dusk 05-15-07, 11:10 PM	What I would do is simply treat the god touched type of template the same as you would an artifact. It is a plot drived gift that causes as much turmoil as it gives power. It is unique, unpricable and unselectable. That goes for "Chosen" as well as any "touched" or your own homebrew. That way you can include abilities that are incalculable for LA. Like 9 SLA's or 9 Spell Immunities or immunity to dead magic or... Forgotten Realms is built so that your feeble PC's cannot possibly matter in the world. If you succeed or fail, it makes no difference to the status quo. If your DM is brazen enough to allow you to fix outstanding problems, defeat great evils or even usurp the power of notable notables then he invalidates any future supplements that are released. Every time he gets a module or guide he must rewrite the extensive changes that he has made since the existing storyline starts to unravel pretty quickly once you go outside the box. Not to start an argument, but Lolth exists outside of FR. I just mentioned Bane because he was the first to come to mind. Nerull-touched: +6 CON +6 WIS, +4 Intimidate and Bluff, Immune to Level Loss. Vecna-Touched: +6 CON +6 INT, +4 any two Knowledge, Immune to Level Loss
Nat_20 05-15-07, 11:20 PM	Nerull-touched: +6 CON +6 WIS, +4 Intimidate and Bluff, Immune to Level Loss. Vecna-Touched: +6 CON +6 INT, +4 any two Knowledge, Immune to Level Loss Good, Good, i like your version of Nerull-touched... Corellion-Touched: +6 Dex, +6 Con(Make up for the racial weakness) +4 to Move Silent and Diplomacy, +2 to Attack Bonus and Damage to Orcs
Nat_20 05-16-07, 12:52 PM	So what is the general consensus on these would be templates? +2 for any race but +1(Lolth touched) for drow??? +2 Lvl seems a little to much, but +6 to two stats is quite good... Any comments?
DarkRhystar 05-16-07, 03:20 PM	I like it at LA +1. It's a worthwhile template with that LA. At LA +2, not so much.
claypigeons 05-16-07, 03:28 PM	Um... guys... seriously.. There should always be a reason NOT to take a template. As it stands, I can't see a reason why every wizard WOULDN'T take the Vecna-touched template. The benefit FAAAARRR outweighst the cost. And what ranger ANYWHERE isn't going to want to be touched by Corellon. ( ;) )
DarkRhystar 05-16-07, 03:30 PM	There should always be a reason NOT to take a template. Losing a whole level of class features is usually a good reason.
claypigeons 05-16-07, 03:38 PM	Losing a whole level of class features is usually a good reason. Oh snap! Level 19 wizard casting instead of level 20! Man that's smarts! It's not like the +3hp per level and +3 DC (and more bonus spells!) isn't as good as the level itself... I'd take and extra 57hp and +3 spell DC in exhange for a SINGLE 9th level spell.
Nat_20 05-16-07, 03:43 PM	Oh snap! Level 19 wizard casting instead of level 20! Man that's smarts! It's not like the +3hp per level and +3 DC (and more bonus spells!) isn't as good as the level itself... I'd take and extra 57hp and +3 spell DC in exhange for a SINGLE 9th level spell. He does have a point... thats why i was asking, so we could discuss it, i personally think that its between +1 and +2, not good for two levels, but to good for just one. some tweaking could be in order...
DarkRhystar 05-16-07, 03:45 PM	Oh snap! Level 19 wizard casting instead of level 20! Man that's smarts! It's not like the +3hp per level and +3 DC (and more bonus spells!) isn't as good as the level itself... I'd take and extra 57hp and +3 spell DC in exhange for a SINGLE 9th level spell. At level 20 you would, but how about on the way up? At every level going up though that's 1 level less of spells you have. You gain spell levels one level later than usual. You qualify for prestige classes one level later than usual. Etcetera. This especially hurts a Wizard who doesn't really need Strength for anything. If he really wanted more Strength for a fight anyway, he'd just cast Bite of the X. (Bite of the Wearbear gives +16 Strength for example.)
claypigeons 05-16-07, 03:50 PM	Who said anything about strength? I was looking at the +con/int template. It's AMAZING. So you cast spells (level-wise) like a sorcerer... Considering the gains, I'm sure nearly everyone could find in themselves the strength to soldier on in the face of such adversity. The penalties are not that high. So you delay everything one level, it's not it really matters that much. The bonus spells make the delay in spell levels a more manageable, and the bonus to CON makes you a bit less squishy.
2nd Ed Paladin 05-16-07, 03:58 PM	Put me firmly in the "No way on earth I let someone use this template for only a +1 LA" camp. I'd say a good +2 unless you were willing to add, and enforce, some heavy RP consequences.
claypigeons 05-16-07, 04:04 PM	Put me firmly in the "No way on earth I let someone use this template for only a +1 LA" camp. I'd say a good +2 unless you were willing to add, and enforce, some heavy RP consequences. Aye. Even the Lloth-touched one is ridiculously strong. It's just that in a lot of games, a Chaotic-Evil party member is a no go. But, that's most games, not all.
fiendish_platypus 05-16-07, 04:05 PM	:cookie: for the title, it made me laugh so much...
DarkRhystar 05-16-07, 04:09 PM	Who said anything about strength? I was looking at the +con/int template. Ah, I see. Carry on. I completely agree. STR/CON, okay. INT/CON, no.
claypigeons 05-16-07, 04:14 PM	Ah, I see. Carry on. I completely agree. STR/CON, okay. INT/CON, no. Now I understand as well. It appears the small confusion was the source of the argument. Indeed, Str/Con would be pointless, but Con/Int is wonderful.
Nat_20 05-16-07, 04:18 PM	:cookie: for the title, it made me laugh so much... thank you much... another sig cookie for my collection... Good, Good.... so a Level Adj of +2 is good for everyone then???
Tarkwin 05-16-07, 04:32 PM	our group has tried this template idea, with changing atributes and skills and i will say first hand that there is so much room to abuse this. for instance for st cuthbert touched the dm said +6 str&dex +4 intimidate & sence motive and the fear imunity. i used it on a half orc monk and quickly tripped and grappled my way through most encounters. for Heironius was +6 str & chr, +4 diplomacy & I cant remember the other one and talk about sick paladin. the LA needs to be raised if PC's are gona use it, or atleast add in some RP options like make them take the feat sacred vow and if they dont represent there god well then wam! like a paly you loose everything.
darkeness 05-16-07, 04:43 PM	Oh snap! Level 19 wizard casting instead of level 20! Man that's smarts! It's not like the +3hp per level and +3 DC (and more bonus spells!) isn't as good as the level itself... I'd take and extra 57hp and +3 spell DC in exhange for a SINGLE 9th level spell. Well, according to the designers the LA helps more at the lower levels and becomes a hinderance at the higher levels (hence the idea of the LA buy off system in Unearthed). That said I agree that for LA +1 these templetes are too stronge. +6 to 2 stats (and almost always oprimized) for your character is too cheap. Now +1 LA for 2 stats that don't directly effect your character is much more approiate.
AMGriffin 05-16-07, 08:20 PM	How bout a Gruumsh one? +6 Wisdom, +6 Intelligence, +4 racial bonus on survival and sense motive, Immunity to compulsion effects. Just as Lolth needs to beef up her drow, Gruumsh needs to brain up his orcs :P
ShaRd2000 05-16-07, 10:12 PM	Is this just touched stuff? As in different from the chosen templates? Because there was a gigantic thread somewhere about a ton of user (and a few official) chosen templates.
Nat_20 05-16-07, 10:19 PM	No, not the choosen ones, just God-touched templates. As in +6 in two stats, +4 in two skills, and immunity to a status effect... Mielikki Touched: +6 Dex +6 Wis, +4 Knowledge(Nature) +4 Survival, Gain Track as a bonus feat
ShaRd2000 05-16-07, 10:53 PM	Is there actual information on these templates, or are the ones stated so far just iteratives of the "lolth-touched" template?
Nat_20 05-16-07, 11:06 PM	Yeah, pretty much, Lolth touched is the only one actually in a book... it's just fun to make up new ones...
ShaRd2000 05-16-07, 11:23 PM	Oh yeah, I was just making sure.
Borris 05-16-07, 11:34 PM	The problem with giving those templates only a +1 LA is that, while a +6 bonus to two dump-stats might be worth only a +1 LA, with the dozens of gods in the Faerūnian pantheons, if each has its own -touched template with bonuses to different stats, it should always be possible to find a deity that optimizes a given human character. Want to play a wizard? Then just find a deity whose template gives you +6 Con and +6 Int, or even +6 Dex and +6 Int. Playing a paladin instead? There has to be a LN, NG, or LG deity with a template that grants +6 Str and +6 Cha (Lathander, maybe). No matter what stats you give your template, there will always be a few classes for which those two +6 bonuses are worth at least a +2 LA.
ElberethSilverleaf 05-17-07, 12:21 AM	Well Corellon once touched me. It was naughty but ooooh so good.
Nat_20 05-17-07, 01:24 AM	Well Corellon once touched me. It was naughty but ooooh so good. Ohh believe me, hes not as bad as Gruumsh... now that WAS NOT GOOD... I'll never look at a full-blade the same way again... ohhh man...
ElberethSilverleaf 05-17-07, 01:32 AM	Ohh believe me, hes not as bad as Gruumsh... now that WAS NOT GOOD... I'll never look at a full-blade the same way again... ohhh man... LOL
DarkRhystar 05-17-07, 02:37 AM	I sometimes think that folks are so used to seeing templates/LA suck that when a good one comes along that everyone is quick to beat it senseless.
Nat_20 05-17-07, 08:56 PM	Well, here we are... a Touched template for each god in the Players Hand Book... Here they are, enjoy Nerull-touched: +6 CON +6 WIS, +4 Intimidate, +4 Bluff, Immune to Level Loss. Vecna/Boccob-Touched: +6 INT +6 CHA, +4 any two Knowledge, Immune to Level Loss Corellion-Touched: +6 DEX, +6 CON, +4 Move Silent,+6 Diplomacy, +2 to Attack Bonus and Damage to Orcs Gruumsh-Touched: +6 STR, +6 WIS, +4 Survival, +4 Sense Motive, Immunity to compulsion effects. Elhonna/Obad-Hai-Touched: +6 DEX +6 WIS, +4 Knowledge(Nature) +4 Knowledge(Geography), Gain Track as a bonus feat St. Cuthbert/Heironeous-Touched: +6 STR, +6 CON, +4 Intimidate, +4 Sense Motive, Immune to Fear effects Erythnul/Hexor-touched: +6 STR, +6 CHA, +4 Intimidate, +4 Bluff, Immune to fear effects Bahamut/Tiamat-Touched: +6 CON, +6 CHA, Gain immunuty to one energy type(choosen at level of template gained) and Immune to fear effects. Yondalla-Touched: +6 DEX, +6 WIS, Halflings gain an additional +1 to all saving throws and gain an extra 10' to their movment speed. Kord-Touched: +6 STR, +6 CON, +4 to any two STR based skills(choosen at level of template gained), May take ten on any three STR based skill check's per day. Garl Glittergold-Touched: +6 CON, +6 WIS, +4 Appraise, +4 Craft(any), Gnomes gain a once per day reroll on any failed dice roll. Wee Jas-Touched: +6 INT, +6 WIS, +4 Concentration, +4 Spellcraft, Immune to level loss. Moradin-Touched: +6 STR, +6 CON, +4 Craft on anything stone or metal, +4 Search, Immune to fear. Fharlanghn-Touched: +6 INT, +6 WIS, +4 Knowledge(Geography, +4 Knowledge(Local), Gain Freedom of Movement as a spell-like ability usable 3/day, caster level equal to class level's. Olidammara-Touched: +6 DEX, +6 INT, +4 Escape Artist, +4 Disguise, gain Ventriliquism as a spell-like ability at will, caster level equal to 1/2 class levels(at least 1) Pelor-Touched: +6 WIS, +6 CHA, +4 Heal, +4 Knowledge(Religion), Immune to level loss.
DarkRhystar 05-17-07, 09:36 PM	Ugh. Reminds me of Elves; a flavor for every occasion.
Nat_20 05-17-07, 09:40 PM	Nah, this thread would be at Least 4 pages long to show all the different elf stats
Explosive_Zombie 05-18-07, 04:06 AM	The thing about all of this I find funny is, your being touched by a God! I'm pretty sure any God worth their salt can tailor make a gift for you personally. Lets take for instance Boccob. Now he has two servants to touch (man that sounds weird to say), one is a Cleric the other a Wizard. I'm of the belief that he'd have no problem doling out a +6 Int for the Wizard and a +6 Wis to the Cleric and dumping a nice +6 to Con for the both of them. I've never seen a point in putting deity dependent templates on paper . I mean a "+6 to two stat and a +4 to two skills" pretty much covers it. Well, that my two cents. I gotta tell you, I laughed for about 5 minutes when I read this! :cookie:
Nat_20 05-18-07, 01:31 PM	The thing about all of this I find funny is, your being touched by a God! I'm pretty sure any God worth their salt can tailor make a gift for you personally. Lets take for instance Boccob. Now he has two servants to touch (man that sounds weird to say), one is a Cleric the other a Wizard. I'm of the belief that he'd have no problem doling out a +6 Int for the Wizard and a +6 Wis to the Cleric and dumping a nice +6 to Con for the both of them. I've never seen a point in putting deity dependent templates on paper . I mean a "+6 to two stat and a +4 to two skills" pretty much covers it. Well, that my two cents. I gotta tell you, I laughed for about 5 minutes when I read this! :cookie: 3 COOKIES IN ONE TREAD BABY!!!! *cough* sorry, yeah, i guess your right on that, you never see a flexible template where you can choose all the stuff... I just had some time to kill and came up with all of these, I would have no problem if a player wanted to come up with a version of their own as long as it seemed balanced...