Looking for a 'cheap' larger race. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Looking for a 'cheap' larger race. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
StruckingFuggle
04-28-07, 01:52 AM Building a character for one of my players, and I need a race that's either large, or that has powerful build, because I want him to have Knockback, which requires Large or Powerful Build.

I don't know of anything that qualifies with no LA.

I do know that the Goliath counts, but I don't really want to involve Goliaths in this campaign, so I'm looking for something else, but with, ideally, only +1 LA.

I would actually prefer Powerful Build to Large, since it results in no natural 10' reach. >.> ... and would be willing to make the character a "runt", who's medium sized with Powerful Build, instead of large, and maybe monkey with some racial bonuses, if that'd change a +2 la creature to +1 instead.

Any suggestions? : )
SD
04-28-07, 02:12 AM Half-giant, +1 LA with powerful build. Psionic.
j3st3r
04-28-07, 02:15 AM Half-Giant (XPH) or Half-Ogre (RoD) are your best options (although half-ogres LA is +2, but you won't find any other official large race that would have lower). Also Savage Species has half-ogre, but I'd rather use the newer source.
StruckingFuggle
04-28-07, 03:21 AM Thanks for the suggestions.

For the curious, I found an answer. Ended up going up with a Half-Minotaur Dwarf, and swapped the size increase for Powerful Build.
FreAkOuTRG
04-28-07, 07:24 AM I would go Goliath, from races of stone
Grummush_Rogue
04-28-07, 08:53 AM moster manuals orge, bugbear (i think its large), even a gargoyle (another guess). u can use them, of coarse CR is another issue, but i dont think Int mod will be for this kind of caracter.
Maraxus
04-28-07, 09:09 AM Bugbear is medium sized (and through about as massive as Half-Giants and Goliath, they come from a time without powerful build ... hey, they are underpowered anyway, they could get this on top).

Gargoyles are medium sized unless they get 3 racial HDs more (total 7).
In no case are Gagoyles cheap, ECL 9 for damage reduction (magic), a good con score and a couple of natural attacks - so not worth it.
Screams_of_the_Oak
04-28-07, 10:55 AM Bugbear is medium sized (and through about as massive as Half-Giants and Goliath, they come from a time without powerful build ... hey, they are underpowered anyway, they could get this on top).

Gargoyles are medium sized unless they get 3 racial HDs more (total 7).
In no case are Gagoyles cheap, ECL 9 for damage reduction (magic), a good con score and a couple of natural attacks - so not worth it.

I never really thought about that. If they get reprinted soon, powerful build wouldn't be a bad addition for the bugbears.

To reitterate the two posters ahead of me, I can't stress enough how great a Half Giant or Goliath would be for use in a game. The powerful build is at times better than going Large altogether. You get benefits of medium, and the benefits of being large. The strength bonus is to be desired, but these two races give a reasonable addition (+2 respectively). You gain all of those nice check bonuses, and you get to keep your AC too! :D
Mr_Teapot
04-28-07, 11:04 AM Thanks for the suggestions.

For the curious, I found an answer. Ended up going up with a Half-Minotaur Dwarf, and swapped the size increase for Powerful Build.

Is that the Half-Minotaur from Dragon magazine, or is there some other Half Minotaur that I'm unaware of?

Because the LA on the Dragon mag half-minotaur is a typo. See also how the text refers to the half minotaur as a half-ogre? They just copied and pasted the text from the half-ogre and changed things, but missed some parts. I played a Half-Minotaur for a while, and can tell you they're way too powerful for +1 LA.
AMGriffin
04-28-07, 11:21 AM If you wanna go for ultra fun brokenness, make a orc with the half-minotaur template.

+8 Strength at LA+1, where do I sign up!?
StruckingFuggle
04-28-07, 01:39 PM Is that the Half-Minotaur from Dragon magazine, or is there some other Half Minotaur that I'm unaware of?

Because the LA on the Dragon mag half-minotaur is a typo. See also how the text refers to the half minotaur as a half-ogre? They just copied and pasted the text from the half-ogre and changed things, but missed some parts. I played a Half-Minotaur for a while, and can tell you they're way too powerful for +1 LA.

Meh, I think that if you knock off the gore attack (this one, I think, won't have inherited horns), and change the size upgrade to "gains powerful build", it doesn't seem any worse for +1 la than the Goliath does...

The only drawback being that it's a template, instead of a race, so you can smack it on to, say, a desert orc or something (or is it jungle that's the environment that produces superior orcs?) for, yes, some brokenness.
AMGriffin
04-28-07, 01:52 PM ^Powerful Build > Large size

I mean really, the template itself is superior to Gnolls, who are granted...underpowered, but c'mon.
StruckingFuggle
04-28-07, 02:08 PM How do you figure powerful build is better than large size?

Sure, you (comparatively) get +1 to hit, and +1 to AC, but is that really superior to a base ten foot reach? (which becomes 20', rather than 10', with an enlarge)? (which is then even worse with polearms or, godzilla forbid, a spiked chain >.<)
CaoSlayer
04-28-07, 03:04 PM +1 LA?

Take a level of sorcerer and learn enlarge person.
AMGriffin
04-29-07, 02:34 AM How do you figure powerful build is better than large size?

Sure, you (comparatively) get +1 to hit, and +1 to AC, but is that really superior to a base ten foot reach? (which becomes 20', rather than 10', with an enlarge)? (which is then even worse with polearms or, godzilla forbid, a spiked chain >.<)

Because you get ALL the benefits of being large (say for reach) with none of the drawbacks. The long reach is nice, but nothing really to write home about. Your character will also take up a ton of space and constantly be flanked by tons of little guys too. Armor will cost more, etc. etc. There are tons of nagging little effects to being large.
runestar
04-29-07, 02:46 AM You don't get reach for powerful build. The extra costs for armour/weapons are really negligible in the long run. So it is really a tradeoff between reach or +1hit/AC.:)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
StruckingFuggle 04-28-07, 01:52 AM	Building a character for one of my players, and I need a race that's either large, or that has powerful build, because I want him to have Knockback, which requires Large or Powerful Build. I don't know of anything that qualifies with no LA. I do know that the Goliath counts, but I don't really want to involve Goliaths in this campaign, so I'm looking for something else, but with, ideally, only +1 LA. I would actually prefer Powerful Build to Large, since it results in no natural 10' reach. >.> ... and would be willing to make the character a "runt", who's medium sized with Powerful Build, instead of large, and maybe monkey with some racial bonuses, if that'd change a +2 la creature to +1 instead. Any suggestions? : )
SD 04-28-07, 02:12 AM	Half-giant, +1 LA with powerful build. Psionic.
j3st3r 04-28-07, 02:15 AM	Half-Giant (XPH) or Half-Ogre (RoD) are your best options (although half-ogres LA is +2, but you won't find any other official large race that would have lower). Also Savage Species has half-ogre, but I'd rather use the newer source.
StruckingFuggle 04-28-07, 03:21 AM	Thanks for the suggestions. For the curious, I found an answer. Ended up going up with a Half-Minotaur Dwarf, and swapped the size increase for Powerful Build.
FreAkOuTRG 04-28-07, 07:24 AM	I would go Goliath, from races of stone
Grummush_Rogue 04-28-07, 08:53 AM	moster manuals orge, bugbear (i think its large), even a gargoyle (another guess). u can use them, of coarse CR is another issue, but i dont think Int mod will be for this kind of caracter.
Maraxus 04-28-07, 09:09 AM	Bugbear is medium sized (and through about as massive as Half-Giants and Goliath, they come from a time without powerful build ... hey, they are underpowered anyway, they could get this on top). Gargoyles are medium sized unless they get 3 racial HDs more (total 7). In no case are Gagoyles cheap, ECL 9 for damage reduction (magic), a good con score and a couple of natural attacks - so not worth it.
Screams_of_the_Oak 04-28-07, 10:55 AM	Bugbear is medium sized (and through about as massive as Half-Giants and Goliath, they come from a time without powerful build ... hey, they are underpowered anyway, they could get this on top). Gargoyles are medium sized unless they get 3 racial HDs more (total 7). In no case are Gagoyles cheap, ECL 9 for damage reduction (magic), a good con score and a couple of natural attacks - so not worth it. I never really thought about that. If they get reprinted soon, powerful build wouldn't be a bad addition for the bugbears. To reitterate the two posters ahead of me, I can't stress enough how great a Half Giant or Goliath would be for use in a game. The powerful build is at times better than going Large altogether. You get benefits of medium, and the benefits of being large. The strength bonus is to be desired, but these two races give a reasonable addition (+2 respectively). You gain all of those nice check bonuses, and you get to keep your AC too! :D
Mr_Teapot 04-28-07, 11:04 AM	Thanks for the suggestions. For the curious, I found an answer. Ended up going up with a Half-Minotaur Dwarf, and swapped the size increase for Powerful Build. Is that the Half-Minotaur from Dragon magazine, or is there some other Half Minotaur that I'm unaware of? Because the LA on the Dragon mag half-minotaur is a typo. See also how the text refers to the half minotaur as a half-ogre? They just copied and pasted the text from the half-ogre and changed things, but missed some parts. I played a Half-Minotaur for a while, and can tell you they're way too powerful for +1 LA.
AMGriffin 04-28-07, 11:21 AM	If you wanna go for ultra fun brokenness, make a orc with the half-minotaur template. +8 Strength at LA+1, where do I sign up!?
StruckingFuggle 04-28-07, 01:39 PM	Is that the Half-Minotaur from Dragon magazine, or is there some other Half Minotaur that I'm unaware of? Because the LA on the Dragon mag half-minotaur is a typo. See also how the text refers to the half minotaur as a half-ogre? They just copied and pasted the text from the half-ogre and changed things, but missed some parts. I played a Half-Minotaur for a while, and can tell you they're way too powerful for +1 LA. Meh, I think that if you knock off the gore attack (this one, I think, won't have inherited horns), and change the size upgrade to "gains powerful build", it doesn't seem any worse for +1 la than the Goliath does... The only drawback being that it's a template, instead of a race, so you can smack it on to, say, a desert orc or something (or is it jungle that's the environment that produces superior orcs?) for, yes, some brokenness.
AMGriffin 04-28-07, 01:52 PM	^Powerful Build > Large size I mean really, the template itself is superior to Gnolls, who are granted...underpowered, but c'mon.
StruckingFuggle 04-28-07, 02:08 PM	How do you figure powerful build is better than large size? Sure, you (comparatively) get +1 to hit, and +1 to AC, but is that really superior to a base ten foot reach? (which becomes 20', rather than 10', with an enlarge)? (which is then even worse with polearms or, godzilla forbid, a spiked chain >.<)
CaoSlayer 04-28-07, 03:04 PM	+1 LA? Take a level of sorcerer and learn enlarge person.
AMGriffin 04-29-07, 02:34 AM	How do you figure powerful build is better than large size? Sure, you (comparatively) get +1 to hit, and +1 to AC, but is that really superior to a base ten foot reach? (which becomes 20', rather than 10', with an enlarge)? (which is then even worse with polearms or, godzilla forbid, a spiked chain >.<) Because you get ALL the benefits of being large (say for reach) with none of the drawbacks. The long reach is nice, but nothing really to write home about. Your character will also take up a ton of space and constantly be flanked by tons of little guys too. Armor will cost more, etc. etc. There are tons of nagging little effects to being large.
runestar 04-29-07, 02:46 AM	You don't get reach for powerful build. The extra costs for armour/weapons are really negligible in the long run. So it is really a tradeoff between reach or +1hit/AC.:)