Post/Author/DateTime	Post
FrostHammer 02-27-07, 04:01 PM	Are there any classes with bonuses to Wisdom but no LA or only +1 LA besides Aasimar?
ericSHINRA 02-27-07, 04:18 PM	Do you mean races with bonuses to wisdom? If so, I can't think of any without a higher LA. Centaur and Satyr have wisdom bonuses but are both have a +2 Level Adjustment.
AZNsupermarket 02-27-07, 04:28 PM	Here is every race with a bonus to wisdom and no LA (LA +0): Alternatively, you can just choose to gain age categories as a standard race, but most of the time, the penalties would greatly outweigh the gains. Warning: The following races are all ridiculously cheesy Venerable Dragonwrought Kobold: +3 Int +3 Wis +3 Cha -4 Str +2 Dex -2 Con, small, 30 ft., sorcerer, humanoid (kobold, reptilian, dragonblood), monter manual pg.161 (dragon wrought feat found in Races of the Dragon) Dragonwrought Kobolds gain the benefits for gaining age categories without any of the penalties Anthropomorphic Animals Anthropomorphic Bat: -4 Str +6 Wis -2 Cha, small, 5 ft. (fly 20 ft. average), blindsense (ex), druid, monstrous humanoid, savage species pg.215 Anthropomorphic Lizard: -4 Str +2 Dex +4 Wis -4 Cha, small, 20 ft., druid, monstrous humanoid, savage species pg.215 Anthropomorphic Monkey: -4 Str +2 Dex +4Wis -2 Cha, small, 30 ft., druid, monstrous humanoid, savage species pg.215 Anthropomorphic Rat: -4 Str +2 Dex +4 Wis -4 Cha, small, 15 ft., rogue, monstrous humanoid, savage species pg.215 Anthropomorphic Raven: -6 Str +2 Dex +4 Wis -4 Cha, small, 10 ft. (fly 30ft. poor), rogue, monstrous humanoid, savage species pg.215 Anthropomorphic Toad: -4 Str -2 Dex +6 Wis -2 Cha, small, 5 ft., cleric, monstrous humanoid, savage species pg.215 Anthropomorphic Weasel: -4 Str +2 Dex +4 Wis -4 Cha, small, 20 ft., attach (ex), druid, monstrous humanoid, savage species pg.215 Jermlaine: -6 Str +6 Dex -2 Con -2 Int +6 Wis -6 Cha, tiny, 40 ft., rogue, fey, monster manual 2 pg.131 Lesser Aasimar +2 Wis +2 Cha, medium, 30 ft., light (sp), paladin, humanoid (planetouched), player’s guide to faerun pg.191 Buomman: +2 Wis -2 Cha, medium, 30 ft., monk, humanoid (buomman, extraplanar), planar handbook pg.08 Dragonborn Buomman: +2 Con -2 Dex +2 Wis -2 Cha, medium, 30 ft., monk and fighter, humanoid (buomman, extraplanar, draconic), planar handbook pg. 8 (Dragonborn found in Races of the Dragon) Rules as Written, Buomman lose their vow of silence when they become Dragonborn of Bahamut
FrostHammer 02-27-07, 04:39 PM	Yes I meant Race. Hmm I wonder if Aasimar or Githerai would be better for a Monk.
obrysii 02-27-07, 05:06 PM	Githerai are pretty good for monks. Huge Wis bonus and nifty Spell-like abilities.
AZNsupermarket 02-27-07, 05:17 PM	Here is a mathematical equation that might screw up your character idea: LA+1 (or higher) + Monk = BAD IDEA* *exception: playing with Unearthed Arcana's LA buy-off
mkill 02-28-07, 02:08 AM	Wisdom is only the 4th-most important ability score for a monk. 1 Str - hit things, deal damage 2 Con - don't die, fort save 3 Dex - don't get hit, Init, reflex save 4 Wis - don't get hit, Stunning Fist save DC, Will save 5 Int - skill points 6 Cha - so you wanted to use that Diplomacy class skill... If you really want to focus on Stunning Fist, with feats like Extra Stunning and Ability Focus (Stunning Fist), a high Wis is a good idea, but Str is still #1 because you can't stun if you miss.
runestar 02-28-07, 06:21 AM	Its debatable whether dex is more important than wis, or vice versa...:)
Beckett 02-28-07, 09:51 AM	Id pick a wisdom monk over a strength monk any day.
JD44 02-28-07, 08:44 PM	Id pick a wisdom monk over a strength monk any day. DITTO.
AZNsupermarket 02-28-07, 09:16 PM	Wisdom is only the 4th-most important ability score for a monk. 1 Str - hit things, deal damage 2 Con - don't die, fort save 3 Dex - don't get hit, Init, reflex save 4 Wis - don't get hit, Stunning Fist save DC, Will save 5 Int - skill points 6 Cha - so you wanted to use that Diplomacy class skill... If you really want to focus on Stunning Fist, with feats like Extra Stunning and Ability Focus (Stunning Fist), a high Wis is a good idea, but Str is still #1 because you can't stun if you miss. QFT, although one could make the argument that wis is more important than dex.
FrostHammer 02-28-07, 09:38 PM	Hmm...if you make a build focused on Stunning Fist, you still can't kill your opponent quickly because the opponent doesn't stay stunned long enough to be CDG'ed...
AZNsupermarket 03-01-07, 12:20 AM	Hmm...if you make a build focused on Stunning Fist, you still can't kill your opponent quickly because the opponent doesn't stay stunned long enough to be CDG'ed... You can only coup de grace helpless people. Stunned does not equal helpless. Therefore, you can't coup de grace someone who is merely stunned. Don't feel bad though, this is a common mistake.
Kadasbrass 03-01-07, 01:21 AM	Since the title is which "Class" gives a wisdom bonus I would point out that I believe the Dread Necromancer gives a wisdom bonus as part of the benefits of the lich template :D
Shado 03-01-07, 02:10 AM	Vanara from OA (Monkey race) has a +2 WIS modifier for LA 0. (As well as a +2 INT.) However, they also have a -2 STR penalty... so they may not be ideal for a Monk.
Nathreet 03-01-07, 03:06 AM	www.d20srd.org => monsters LA HD str dex con int wis cha n.a. AC special restrictions Planetouched, Aasimar 1 +0 +0 +0 +0 +2 +2 0 resistance acid 5, cold 5, electricity 5 Locathah 1 2d8 +0 +2 +0 +2 +2 +0 3 swims Sprite, Grig 3 1/2 d6 -6 +8 +2 +0 +2 +4 2 tiny, DR 10/cold iron always NG Sprite, Nixie 3 1d6 -4 +6 +0 +2 +2 +8 0 DR 10/cold iron, amphibious Sahuagin 2 2d8 +4 +2 +2 +4 +2 -2 5 water dependant (con/2 hours on land) Sprite, Pixie 4 (6) 1d6 -4 +8 +0 +6 +4 +6 1 greater invis 24/7, DR 10/cold iron always NG Pseudodragon 3 2d12 -4 +4 +2 +0 +2 +0 4 tiny dragon, sleep poison, blindsense, +12 hide Sahuagin, four-armed 3 2d8 +4 +2 +2 +4 +2 -2 5 Centuar 2 4d8 +8 +4 +4 -2 +2 +0 3 Satyr 2 5d6 +0 +2 +2 +2 +2 +2 4 DR 5/cold iron, "+2" hide, listen, move silently, perform, spot Aranea 4 3d10 +0 +4 +4 +4 +2 +4 1 web 6/day, sorc 3 Doppelganger 4 4d8 +2 +2 +2 +2 +2 +2 4 Salamander, Flamebro. 4 4d8 +2 +2 +4 +4 +4 +2 7 +1d6 fire dmg. w/ metal weapons, slap Ettercap 4 5d8 +4 +6 +2 -4 +4 -2 1 web 8/day Harpy 3 7d8 +0 +4 +0 -4 +2 +6 1 Genie, Janni 5 6d8 +6 +4 +2 +4 +4 +2 1 fly 20' (perfect) Lammasu 5 7d10 +12 +2 +6 +6 +6 +4 10 cleric 7 always LG Treant 5 7d8 +18 -2 +10 +2 +6 +2 13 can animate up to 2 other trees as treants Demon, Succubus 6 6d8 +2 +2 +2 +6 +4 +16 9 always CE Ogre Mage 7 5d8 +10 +0 +6 +4 +4 +6 5 fly (good), regeneration 5, SR 19 Lamia 4 9d10 +8 +4 +2 +2 +4 +2 7 Genie, Djinni 6 7d8 +8 +8 +4 +4 +4 +4 3 fly 60' (perfect) Lillend 6 7d8 +10 +6 +4 +4 +6 +8 5 bard 6, constrict Nymph 7 6d6 +0 +6 +2 +6 +6 +8 0 blinding beauty, druid 7, unearthly grace Rakshasa 7 7d8 +2 +4 +6 +2 +2 +6 9 sorc 7, 40' move, DR 15/good&piercing, SR 27+CL, always LE Salamander, Average 5 9d8 +4 +2 +4 +4 +4 +4 7 +1d6 fire dmg. w/ metal weapons, slap Inevitable, Zelekhut 7 8d10 +10 +0 - +0 +6 +4 10 spell like abilities always LN, fugitive hunters Scorpionfolk 4 12d8 +8 +2 +2 -2 +4 +4 6 fire resistance 5, SR 18 Couatl 7 9d8 +8 +6 +4 +6 +8 +6 9 sorc 9 always LG, HD adv Devil, Erinyes 7 9d8 +10 +10 +10 +4 +8 +10 8 true sight, gr. tport always LE Giant, Frost 4 13d8 +18 -2 +10 +0 +4 +0 9 Giant, Stone 4 (6) 14d8 +16 +4 +8 +0 +2 +0 11 (LA 6 => elder, w/ spell like abilities) Demon, Vrock 8 10d8 +12 +4 +14 +4 +6 +6 11 always CE Giant, Fire 4 15d8 +20 -2 +10 +0 +4 +0 8 Athach 5 14d8 +16 +2 +10 -4 +2 -4 8 huge Demon, Hezrou 9 10d8 +10 +0 +18 +4 +4 +8 14 always CE Angel, Astral Deva 8 12d8 +12 +8 +8 +8 +8 +10 15 always good (any) Archon, Trumpet 8 12d8 +10 +6 +12 +6 +6 +6 14 cleric 14 always LG Also: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/gnome.htm#svirfneblin -2 Strength, +2 Dexterity, +2 Wisdom, -4 Charisma. LA 3. Lots of special stuff similar to a gnome/dwarf, but better. (only basic subrace with a wis bonus, wasn't on my list b/c it's not a "monster"). What? Don't look at me like that.
AZNsupermarket 03-01-07, 07:26 AM	Vanara from OA (Monkey race) has a +2 WIS modifier for LA 0. (As well as a +2 INT.) However, they also have a -2 STR penalty... so they may not be ideal for a Monk. In 3.5 they no stat modifiers
Shado 03-01-07, 12:40 PM	In 3.5 they no stat modifiers Where are their 3.5 stats? I heard about an update from "Dragon" but so much of what is printed there is unbalanced... (Not that no stat adj. would be...)
AMGriffin 03-01-07, 12:48 PM	Wisdom is very important to monks. They get an AC bonus from it (now consider the fact they can't wear armor without losing a ton of their abilities) It powers some of their other Abilities IIRC.
Tevin Kevlak 03-01-07, 03:32 PM	Wisdom I'd say is probably tied with Dexterity as being the most important stat for a Monk. If you're allowed to take feats from the Book of Exalted Deeds it becomes the most important hands down since Intuitive Strike allows one to use their wisdom modifier instead of their strength modifier on attack rolls. Wisdom affects, A.C., Will saves, Stunning Fist DC, Quivering Palm DC, Spot and Listen checks (both useful for a monk as they make great scouts), and attack rolls with the Intuitive Strike feat. No other non-casting class can benefit so greatly from a single ability score save for maybe Paladins and charisma.
Laurellien 03-01-07, 04:10 PM	About the Lesser Aasimar. It says that it is identical to the Aasimar except for several things which are not Level Adjustment. Why does everybody say that it is LA +0
FrostHammer 03-01-07, 04:10 PM	I can't even find Lesser Aasimar in PGTF. there's an entry for lesser planetouched but there's just one dinky paragraph that doesn't tell me much.
AZNsupermarket 03-01-07, 04:18 PM	Where are their 3.5 stats? I heard about an update from "Dragon" but so much of what is printed there is unbalanced... (Not that no stat adj. would be...) Yes, I was referring to the dragon magazine update. About the Lesser Aasimar. It says that it is identical to the Aasimar except for several things which are not Level Adjustment. Why does everybody say that it is LA +0 although this isn't spelled out word-for-word, on page 190 of player's guide to faerun, it states the purpose of those variants is to grant players the ability to play less powerful versions of the races in that section as LA +0.
Laurellien 03-01-07, 04:19 PM	So is the Lesser Aasimar a great lie perpetuated by the entire Wizards community?
FrostHammer 03-01-07, 04:20 PM	Right but what are the Lesser Aasimar's EXACT stats? I never figured that out. What did they lose to make their LA +0?
Laurellien 03-01-07, 04:21 PM	Where does it even say that they are LA +0?
AZNsupermarket 03-01-07, 04:24 PM	Right but what are the Lesser Aasimar's EXACT stats? I never figured that out. What did they lose to make their LA +0? Their type changed from Outsider to Humanoind (planetouched). It's not exactly balanced and that's why so many people have a problem with it.
AZNsupermarket 03-01-07, 04:26 PM	Where does it even say that they are LA +0? page 190 of player's guide to faerun (paragraph under the section: Lesser Versions) seems to strongly imply that all lesser version races are LA +0.
Laurellien 03-01-07, 04:27 PM	If it doesn't say it precisely, how does it say it and where?
AZNsupermarket 03-01-07, 04:30 PM	Page 191 didn't have anything on the lesser Aasimar Aasimar are a type of planetouched. Lesser Planetouched are listed on Page 191 of the Player's Guide to Faerun. What page precisely does it say LA+0? If it doesn't say it precisely, how does it say it and where? page 190 of player's guide to faerun (paragraph under the section: Lesser Versions) seems to strongly imply that all lesser version races are LA +0.
Laurellien 03-01-07, 04:32 PM	What terms are used to strongly imply that? It doesn't as far as I (or my DM) can tell. Isn't it also background rather than RAW as well?
AZNsupermarket 03-01-07, 04:37 PM	What terms are used to strongly imply that? It doesn't as far as I (or my DM) can tell. Isn't it also background rather than RAW as well? First sentence of the paragraph. Seriously though, you really shouldn't be trying to convince your dm of this. Lesser Aasimar are broken. If your dm is open to alternatives, you might want to check out my "fixed" version of the lesser aasimar: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=717632
Laurellien 03-01-07, 04:38 PM	Have Wizards made a ruling on this?
AZNsupermarket 03-01-07, 04:40 PM	Have Wizards made a ruling on this? off the top of my head, I honestly don't know.
Kadasbrass 03-01-07, 04:53 PM	Have Wizards made a ruling on this? I'm not even sure if Wizards knows what their doing with races anymore...
Erato 03-01-07, 05:09 PM	Are there any classes with bonuses to Wisdom but no LA or only +1 LA besides Aasimar? If you don’t mind playing a rather silly concept, try the buomman from Planar Handbook (+2 wis, -2 cha LA +0)
dragonboy131313 03-01-07, 06:57 PM	is there a race that has no la and has a big plus to int?
Erato 03-01-07, 07:12 PM	is there a race that has no la and has a big plus to int? I don’t think LA +0 race has big plusses to any stats. The mongrelfolk has +4 CON, but that’s the only example of a bonus bigger than 2 in a LA + 0 race I can think of. For a +2 INT there’s always the grey elf and the lesser air and fire genasi (though why any DM would allow these is beyond me)
dragonboy131313 03-01-07, 07:16 PM	ill make one then
AZNsupermarket 03-01-07, 10:06 PM	is there a race that has no la and has a big plus to int? Here are all your choices from WOTC published material for +0 LA races that get a bonus to intelligence: Fire Elf: +2 Dex +2 Int -2 Con -2 Cha, medium, 30 ft., wizard, humanoid (elf), unearthed arcana pg.17 Gray Elf: -2 Str +2 Dex -2 Con +2 Int, medium, 30 ft., wizard, humanoid (elf), monster manual pg.104 Silvanesti: +2 Dex +2 Int -2 Con -2 Cha, medium, 30 ft., humanoid (elf), ), dragonlance campaign setting pg.20 Sun Elf: +2 Int -2 Con, medium, 30 ft., wizard, humanoid (elf), forgotten realms pg.15 Tinker Gnome: +2 Dex +2 Int -2 Str -2 Wis, small, 20 ft., special, dragonlance campaign setting pg.27 Deep Imaskari: +2 Int -2 Dex, medium, 30 ft., spell clutch (su), wizard, humanoid (human), underdark pg.9 Lesser Air Genasi +2 Dex +2 Int -2 Wis -2 Cha, medium, 30 ft., levitate (sp), fighter, humanoid (planetouched), player’s guide to faerun pg.191 Lesser Fire Genasi +2 Int -2 Cha, medium, 30 ft., control flames (sp), fighter, humanoid (planetouched), player’s guide to faerun pg.191 Lesser Tiefling +2 Int +2 Dex -2 Cha, medium, 30 ft., darkness (sp), rogue, humanoid (planetouched), player’s guide to faerun pg.191 Venerable Dragonwrought Kobold: -4 Str +2 Dex -2 Con +3 Int +3 Wis +3 Cha, small, 30 ft., sorcerer, humanoid (kobold, reptilian, dragonblood), monter manual pg.161 and Races of the Dragon pg. 39 You can also add the Dragonborn of Bahamut pseudo-template without level adjustment to any of these and gain +2 con -2 dex, which stacks with your original ablity adjustments. That may be helpful for a lot of these. Dragonborn: +2 Con -2 Dex, same as base creature, same as base creature, fighter and the base creatures, humanoid (dragonblood, same as base creature), races of the dragon pg.5 Other than that, you can just increase your age level and suffer the physical ability score penalties.
JarionSilverblades 03-02-07, 06:32 PM	Are there any classes with bonuses to Wisdom but no LA or only +1 LA besides Aasimar? Uldra, from Frostburn. They have -2 Str, +2 Con, +2 Wis and have only an LA +1.
Angel Black 03-02-07, 08:13 PM	Id pick a wisdom monk over a strength monk any day. I wonder how bad is to be a Halfling Monk...
JarionSilverblades 03-03-07, 08:48 AM	I wonder how bad is to be a Halfling Monk... A halfling wouldn't make a bad Monk, with their +2 Dex and Small size, they already get a +2 to AC, halflings gain a +1 with thrown weapons and slings, which covers some of the monk's weapons ( dagger, javelin, sai, shuriken, and sling). As for the halfling's speed of 20ft, the monk's speed bonus takes care of that by level 3. The only real disadventage is the halfling's small size, it means they deal less damage with weapons and unarmed strike, but they do gain a +1 attack bonus because of their small size.
AZNsupermarket 03-03-07, 10:02 AM	A halfling wouldn't make a bad Monk, with their +2 Dex and Small size, they already get a +2 to AC, halflings gain a +1 with thrown weapons and slings, which covers some of the monk's weapons ( dagger, javelin, sai, shuriken, and sling). As for the halfling's speed of 20ft, the monk's speed bonus takes care of that by level 3. The only real disadventage is the halfling's small size, it means they deal less damage with weapons and unarmed strike, but they do gain a +1 attack bonus because of their small size. IIRC halfling monks get some pretty sweet racial substitution levels in Races of the Wild.